Minor child used my debit card online....

[bellebud]

OP -

I agree w/ other posters who say he may not "really" understand it was stealing.

I also agree about not leaving him home from disney (although I'd be tempted!) If he were older, then I would, but not at 9yo (just because I don't know if he really understands what he did).

Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[PixieDustandEeyore]

OP How are things going?! And I hope you have a great July 4th weekend

 

[Spacepest]

I'm coming late into this thread, but as an online gamer, I've got a few comments:

The OP's child may really be too young to understand the concept of using a debit card really costs someone money.

As for setting up online accounts--its really easy for a minor child to look up instructions on how to do these things online. You can Google up all kinds of information that will literally tell you how to set up Pay Pal type of accounts, often with accompanying pictures and text! Sometimes you can even find videos on Youtube!

The last couple of times I bought stuff online from various businesses, each line of information had a picture you could click on which would literally show an illustration of a credit card with the corresponding information you needed to enter circled in red. And if your debit card has a Visa/Mastercard logo you will almost never be asked for a pin number for the transaction and the money will automatically be taken from your bank account. The best case scenario he really did look this stuff up himself; worst case is someone mentored him.

If he did it himself, I can picture how easy it would be for him: look up a video or pictorial guide on the internet. Look for a parents credit card, and a piece of mail with parent's name and address on it. Enter info into the online form, and BAM! New account made, debit/credit card charged.

Lord help you if its the worst case scenario and an older person mentored him. That's a whole another can of worms. You would probably want to completely cut off your son's internet use to avoid contacting this person and file a fraud/identity theft report with local authorities and your bank.

What punishment the OP decides to mete out is her decision. But my suggestions are get new credit/debit cards, ban the kid from using the internet until he is much older (because he obviously is too young to be using it if he does stuff like this and doesn't really feel that its wrong), and get rid of all his online game consoles by selling them to recoup back the expenses he charged online. For a child this age, just losing video game priviledges for a very long time would probably leave a big enough impression on him without destroying the entire family's vacation. (Although, grrr, if it were my kid I'd still be tempted to leave him home at the grandparents).

 

[belledreamer]

Okay... I've read all the posts so far, and I guess I'll put in my own two cents and personal experience.

First to the original poster, I know it's disappointing to find your child stealing from you. I stole fom my father when I was about his age, a $12 electronic device, but still stole for reasons that I still don't understand.

I actually ended up confessing in a fit of tears and even though I did lose TV for a week, (which was a big deal for me...) knowing I disappointed my parents was worse than anything.

That being said, each child is different; some can get the point through their father's 'evil eye' (which straightened me up everytime), some need more forceful punishment. One opinion that everyone seems to agree with is the taking away of TV, game systems, etc. and repaying in full; I'll put my agreement to that as well. I also agree that constant supervision on the computer is a must. However, this 'taking everything out of the bedroom except a bed' I think is too much. I'd remove electromic devices for say the summer or even the year, but that would be all.

As for Disney, considering that he's 9, I'd bring him but not allow special priledges: souvineers, extra time in the pool, and the like.

Wishing that you make the best decision for you and your child.

 

[Ceila]

Not knowing all the accounts and passwords may also point to a 2nd party involved. 'El thiefo' (love the term) may have set up the accounts for him using your card info that he gave him. His hemming and hawing may not be because he just doesn't want to give you the info, but that he doesn't know it and doesn't want to reveal an even bigger problem - he was also a victim.

He was definitely wrong in stealing, no doubt about that, but I would give dollars to donuts with all the complicated stuff you said he did, that he has also fallen victim to somebody preying on kids, kids that may be already susceptible to the suggestion of stealing Mom's debit card.

The online games and chat rooms are not exactly the safest place from child predators. Predators have been known on occasion to visit and befriend kids in kid chat rooms. And it doesn't have to always be sexual predators.

I would definitely have the therapist try to dig to see if your son was being helped by anybody. And I suggest the therapist, because just like a sexual predator, the son may have been threatened if he told, or was made to feel guilty if the other party is caught. If there is a second party, then you have a criminal case to go to the police with.

But at the very least, lI would still put a watch on your identity through the credit bureaus,

I think these are all VERY valid points. OP, what you describe does NOT sound like something a typical 9-year-old would do on his own. I would absolutely look into the possibility that someone older was involved.

Your son's "lack of remorse" may very well be his relief that someone has put a stop to something he felt uncomfortable about but couldn't find a way to stop on his own. Also, lying about the passwords could have been his way to buy time to erase messages from someone else that he was afraid to tell you about. Please, for his sake, look into the possibility that he is being taken advantage of by someone else.

 

[fairestoneofall]

Was the Paypal account linked to your bank account, or just to your debit card? You don't have to link a Paypal account to a bank account. I have one that is and one that is not. But you do have to have a credit card on file as a back-up payment. So, that may be what he has done (with your debit card). I cannot imagine how he would know how to check your bank account to set up one of those with Paypal. If he did actually do that, then wow. Just wow.

You've gotten a lot of great advice. I don't really have any advice to add.

 

[LSUmom4kids]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and advice and thanks for the personal messages too! It really helps to know I'm not the only parent out there who's had a child dissapoint them and do the "wrong thing". We still love our son and don't want him to feel like an outcast, but we do want him to learn a valuable lesson from this experience.

DS knows that I am holding his leftover christmas money and will occasionally ask me to purchase something for him at the store, if I approve, and he will pay me back at home. Although he knew I would disapprove of his purchasing these things on line and still used my debit card, he assumed he could just "pay me back" with his money. I explained that we are very disappointed because he knew it was wrong and he did it anyway. Besides, his online shopping spree costs about 4 x the money I am holding for him!

I'm going to try to dispute the charges with the bank, as I did not authorize these purchases. However, assuming I will be out of luck with the purchase of "points" and "game time", DS knows that he will be using his money to pay us back AND doing lots of extra chores to earn the rest.

The bank account was new since Feb. 2010 so I have found the only questionable charges occured since 5/14/10 to 6/28/10. I have cancelled the debit card.

We will discuss with the counselor how to handle other punishments with him. All of his electronic devices were taken away and since he doesn't have friends over and doesn't talk on the phone, those punishments won't be effective. With the counselor's help, we will work on finding out how he was able to open a paypal account and figure out how to do the things he did and if anyone else was coaching him. We will also work on the "Trust" issues and how important that is in all walks of life!

I do agree with some posters about YouTube. You Tube and Google have a wealth of information on how to do just about anything! Unfortunately, technology can be a very scary thing these days and we just got our SERIOUS WAKE UP CALL! Each kid is different. My older son is very mature and responsible; my daughter will "fess us" and tell us when she thinks she has done something wrong; my 9 yr. old DS - the youngest - is gifted in school, but trying to grow up too fast - too smart for his own good!

I know some people feel strongly about us excluding DS from our WDW trip, but we feel this is a family vacation and since we have an older son who is on his own and can't go on vacation with us because of work, our vacation time with our family is precious and the trip will go on as planned. However, we will be curtailing his souvenier and snack purchases and the counselor will help us figure out how to do this (and other life lessons) without affecting DS's self-esteem, BUT while helping him learn his lesson.

While it was a serious offense, DS is still loved and a precious member of our family. He's realizing that some of the things he's taken for granted are not automatic anymore and while he's expressed some anger in the last few days since getting "caught", we all know it will get better with time. As my DH pointed out, it could have been a lot worse. I'll keep you updated as our trip gets closer. Thanks for the support (sorry this post is so long...)

 

[Sparx]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and advice and thanks for the personal messages too! It really helps to know I'm not the only parent out there who's had a child dissapoint them and do the "wrong thing". We still love our son and don't want him to feel like an outcast, but we do want him to learn a valuable lesson from this experience.

DS knows that I am holding his leftover christmas money and will occasionally ask me to purchase something for him at the store, if I approve, and he will pay me back at home. Although he knew I would disapprove of his purchasing these things on line and still used my debit card, he assumed he could just "pay me back" with his money. I explained that we are very disappointed because he knew it was wrong and he did it anyway. Besides, his online shopping spree costs about 4 x the money I am holding for him!

I'm going to try to dispute the charges with the bank, as I did not authorize these purchases. However, assuming I will be out of luck with the purchase of "points" and "game time", DS knows that he will be using his money to pay us back AND doing lots of extra chores to earn the rest.

The bank account was new since Feb. 2010 so I have found the only questionable charges occured since 5/14/10 to 6/28/10. I have cancelled the debit card.

We will discuss with the counselor how to handle other punishments with him. All of his electronic devices were taken away and since he doesn't have friends over and doesn't talk on the phone, those punishments won't be effective. With the counselor's help, we will work on finding out how he was able to open a paypal account and figure out how to do the things he did and if anyone else was coaching him. We will also work on the "Trust" issues and how important that is in all walks of life!

I do agree with some posters about YouTube. You Tube and Google have a wealth of information on how to do just about anything! Unfortunately, technology can be a very scary thing these days and we just got our SERIOUS WAKE UP CALL! Each kid is different. My older son is very mature and responsible; my daughter will "fess us" and tell us when she thinks she has done something wrong; my 9 yr. old DS - the youngest - is gifted in school, but trying to grow up too fast - too smart for his own good!

I know some people feel strongly about us excluding DS from our WDW trip, but we feel this is a family vacation and since we have an older son who is on his own and can't go on vacation with us because of work, our vacation time with our family is precious and the trip will go on as planned. However, we will be curtailing his souvenier and snack purchases and the counselor will help us figure out how to do this (and other life lessons) without affecting DS's self-esteem, BUT while helping him learn his lesson.

While it was a serious offense, DS is still loved and a precious member of our family. He's realizing that some of the things he's taken for granted are not automatic anymore and while he's expressed some anger in the last few days since getting "caught", we all know it will get better with time. As my DH pointed out, it could have been a lot worse. I'll keep you updated as our trip gets closer. Thanks for the support (sorry this post is so long...)

It sounds like you have everything under control. Good luck! (and have a great wdw trip!)

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Sounds like a good plan.

I might work on the "no friends" at the counselors as well. Kids want friends and he may need some help in that dept.

When the kids start "getting a life" you have much more stuff to leverage with.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and advice and thanks for the personal messages too! It really helps to know I'm not the only parent out there who's had a child dissapoint them and do the "wrong thing". We still love our son and don't want him to feel like an outcast, but we do want him to learn a valuable lesson from this experience.

DS knows that I am holding his leftover christmas money and will occasionally ask me to purchase something for him at the store, if I approve, and he will pay me back at home. Although he knew I would disapprove of his purchasing these things on line and still used my debit card, he assumed he could just "pay me back" with his money. I explained that we are very disappointed because he knew it was wrong and he did it anyway. Besides, his online shopping spree costs about 4 x the money I am holding for him!

I'm going to try to dispute the charges with the bank, as I did not authorize these purchases. However, assuming I will be out of luck with the purchase of "points" and "game time", DS knows that he will be using his money to pay us back AND doing lots of extra chores to earn the rest.

The bank account was new since Feb. 2010 so I have found the only questionable charges occured since 5/14/10 to 6/28/10. I have cancelled the debit card.

We will discuss with the counselor how to handle other punishments with him. All of his electronic devices were taken away and since he doesn't have friends over and doesn't talk on the phone, those punishments won't be effective. With the counselor's help, we will work on finding out how he was able to open a paypal account and figure out how to do the things he did and if anyone else was coaching him. We will also work on the "Trust" issues and how important that is in all walks of life!

I do agree with some posters about YouTube. You Tube and Google have a wealth of information on how to do just about anything! Unfortunately, technology can be a very scary thing these days and we just got our SERIOUS WAKE UP CALL! Each kid is different. My older son is very mature and responsible; my daughter will "fess us" and tell us when she thinks she has done something wrong; my 9 yr. old DS - the youngest - is gifted in school, but trying to grow up too fast - too smart for his own good!

I know some people feel strongly about us excluding DS from our WDW trip, but we feel this is a family vacation and since we have an older son who is on his own and can't go on vacation with us because of work, our vacation time with our family is precious and the trip will go on as planned. However, we will be curtailing his souvenier and snack purchases and the counselor will help us figure out how to do this (and other life lessons) without affecting DS's self-esteem, BUT while helping him learn his lesson.

While it was a serious offense, DS is still loved and a precious member of our family. He's realizing that some of the things he's taken for granted are not automatic anymore and while he's expressed some anger in the last few days since getting "caught", we all know it will get better with time. As my DH pointed out, it could have been a lot worse. I'll keep you updated as our trip gets closer. Thanks for the support (sorry this post is so long...)

Sounds like you are doing what's best all the way around.

I think it's great that you are still taking him to Disney. To cut him out of a family vacation might lead to even more problems. Although what he did was terribly wrong we all have to remember that he is only 9. I understand what you're saying - my younger kids have birthday money and such at home and will ask me to front them the money if they want to buy something when we're out. I can actually see how your ds might have thought it was the same thing.

We've all gone through things that are disappointing with our kids. Believe me I have seven so I know that it happens even with the best of kids. I love the Principal at our school - when she has to call a parent to tell them that their kids did something wrong, and the parents is so upset, she'll tell them "I'm a mother and I wish I could tell you that this will be the first time your child disappoints you, but it probably won't be".

We'll all had our disappointments but I think your family will be fine. You're showing your ds that while he disappointed you, you still still love him and he's still part of your family. I think it's great that you're involving the therapist.

Good Luck!

 

[pioneer89]

I feel for you LSUmom, I have a DS8, and I was thinking about how tough it would be if he did something like this.

*EDIT TO REMOVE TO-LATE ADVICE*
I posted too fast, and didn't see your decision. Sounds like you've worked things out, and have a great time at WDW!

 

[MrsPete]

DS knows that I am holding his leftover christmas money . . . Besides, his online shopping spree costs about 4 x the money I am holding for him!

This is evidence that he doesn't really "get" the concept of card = real money. I think he's ready -- once this punishment is well behind him -- for some life lessons dealing with budgeting and real money. Experience with those things from a young age can help prevent him from getting into debt as a young adult.

While it was a serious offense, DS is still loved and a precious member of our family. He's realizing that some of the things he's taken for granted are not automatic anymore and while he's expressed some anger in the last few days since getting "caught", we all know it will get better with time.

Good. The "remorse" you said he wasn't feeling may've taken a bit longer than expected to show up, but these sound like normal reactions to being caught an being punished. Stand your ground, dole out the punishment, and allow him the chance to work off his mistake and work his way back into your good graces.

 

[GoinAgainSoon]

As someone who has left a child home (my niece) for the way she talked to her mother and disrespected her parents, my vote is to leave the child at home.

Trust me, rewarding bad behavior and dismissing it with excuses like "well, we can make it up other ways" is only going to cause you problems in the future.

Oh, and by the way, I do have a degree in Psychology.

If the OP takes him on the trip, that's a reward and telling him "well, if you mess up, then we'll still reward you and figure out a different punishment".

Snowflake making at its finest

 

[WDWFWfan]

I grew up in the 70's...wide leather belts were popular back then with adults, but not so much with me. Seems to me I've read something about..."not sparing the rod?"

I know that spanking is discouraged in our "enlightened" times, but you have to admit that children behaved much better before we became so "enlightened."

 

[AC7179]

I have a Master's in a psychology field as well, and while this is not professional advice, my personal opinion is that if it were my child, taking him along to WDW will not result in snowflake making. .

I certainly understand the camp that says not to tale him, but I personally would punish him in other ways and not keep from the family vacation. In you shoes, I would take away all electronics all summer and
ame you pay him back. Then I would let it go, unless I thought he hadn't learned his lesson.

 

[GoinAgainSoon]

I have a Master's in a psychology field as well, and while this is not professional advice, my personal opinion is that if it were my child, taking him along to WDW will not result in snowflake making. .

I certainly understand the camp that says not to tale him, but I personally would punish him in other ways and not keep from the family vacation. In you shoes, I would take away all electronics all summer and
ame you pay him back. Then I would let it go, unless I thought he hadn't learned his lesson.

Just, well

I must ask, where is "you" (sic) degree from?


WDWFWFan I agree with pretty much everything you said. While I never had to spank my child (like was done back in "our day"), letting them choose their punishment is NOT productive in any way, shape or form. The OP seems to be rewarding her child for bad behavior. Um, yeah, not good. Can't wait to keep up on the posts she makes about him the next few years

I get flashbacks to going out to have to pick my own switch to spank me with. ahhh, good times! LOL! I used to love having to pick the switch that my brother would get whooped with (that was a reward for us, ) and vise versa!

Considering I'm a professor at a university and my brother is a bio chemist, I'm thinking we turned out ok! LOL!

 

[Magic Mom]

I'm going to try to dispute the charges with the bank, as I did not authorize these purchases. However, assuming I will be out of luck with the purchase of "points" and "game time", DS knows that he will be using his money to pay us back AND doing lots of extra chores to earn the rest.

How is that fair to the bank or the vendor? This wasn't some stranger that stole your identity. This was your child that was allowed enough unsupervised time on the internet to create accounts and use your card. If the neighbor child used your card, you would expect the parents to repay you, because they are responsible for their child's actions. So why shouldn't you be responsible for your child's actions?

 

[AC7179]

Sorry for any typos, I'm on my iPhone and the autocorrection gets me!

My point was that, as far as the wdw trip goes, even professionals may have differing opinions as to the right move and I think it's a personal, parenting decision that all the degrees in the world may not help in making. I can see pros and cons to both sides. To me, I think having some family time at wdw, while punishing in other ways, is appropriate.

 

[GoinAgainSoon]

Sorry for any typos, I'm on my iPhone and the autocorrection gets me!

My point was that, as far as the wdw trip goes, even professionals may have differing opinions as to the right move and I think it's a personal, parenting decision that all the degrees in the world may not help in making. I can see pros and cons to both sides. To me, I think having some family time at wdw, while punishing in other ways, is appropriate.

I agree in some aspects, but, I certainly hope the little snowflakes that still get to take the trip end up in my classes. I don't deal with entitled behavior. If they screw up, they are OUT. You obviously have no idea how students/parents thinking that they can just take ideas from others papers or other people's works and rearrange them. Sorry, epic fail.

Kids that are rewarded for being crappy kids, well, I still have a good 30 years to teach them in college, so I will not reward them for anything they don't earn. It's amusing how many come every semester!

I see this OP's child as the epitome of snowflake.

Leave the kid home and show that you will follow through or start some type of trust fund to pay off their inability to manage in life.

 

[Happy Mom2]

You can dispute the charge with your financial institution, and they will reimburse you the funds; however, you will have to sign an affidavit and THEY could pursue your son. That's what we would do where I work.

I'm not sure how often your family goes to WDW. I would take that into account when making my decision. Yearly - I'd leave him at home; once every 5 years - I'd take him. I am assuming this is a family vacation. I would leave all gaming equipment at home, and spend quality family time together.

Don't threaten unless you are willing to follow through. I think you have every right to be upset.

I liked the idea of talking to a cop, and having them scare some sense into him.

In the meantime, I would put passwords on every computer and cancel your cards.

I pray you will find the strength and patience to deal with your son.