Michelle Obama...

[luvdzny]

The fact that she said the same thing in 2 different speeches leads me to believe that she really means it. I do not think she "mis-spoke" or that I am taking it out of context. If she did not meant it the way it sounded she should not have said it again in the second speech.

 

[va32h]

So are you saying you haven't been proud to be an American ONE TIME in the last 19 years?

No one said she should be walking around wrapped in the American flag singing God Bless America. Saying it's the FIRST time she's been proud though are some pretty strong words coming from a woman who has been married to a man who has been politician since 1996. She wasn't proud to be an American he was elected to the State Senate? She wasn't proud to be an American when he was elected to the U.S. Senate?

I guess it depends on how you define pride. And I can't answer for Michelle Obama as to how she felt when her husband was elected to the State or U.S Senate. You'll have to ask her.

As for me...

When I think of the things that make America great - our Constitution, the pioneer spirit, the Civil Rights movement, - I'm not responsible for any of those things. My generation isn't responsible for those things. Heck, we didn't even invent rock & roll. I'm happy, even grateful that I was born in this country but it would be presumptuous of me, IMO to have pride in something that I had nothing to do with.

There was a comedian - I forget who - with a very funny and biting routine about American attitudes. Like when France opposed our invasion of Iraq and everyone ragged on the French saying, "we saved their butts in WW2".

"Who is this 'we'?" the comedian asked. You and I? We landed at Normandy? We fought the Axis? No, we're sitting in the drive-thru at Wendy's taking credit for someone else's effort. It's a very funny and accurate routine.

I have to look at what my generation has done - what I have done - in order to feel genuine pride.

And I have to get off my butt and try to effect change if I want to feel pride. I haven't done that. I've been very pessimistic about the state of our country and felt that there is no point in trying to change because the people trying to keep the status quo will always have more power and more money and more connections and there's just no point.

Obama's campaign has actually made me feel just a tad less pessimistic - like there really is a possibility for real and positive change. And that I could be a part of that - and be proud of myself (and of my generation) for bringing about.

Who knows - maybe that's what Michelle Obama was thinking when she made her statement.

 

[SeeVee]

Ahhh...the difficulty of being a political wife. Learning what to say and what not to say, and realizing that no matter what you say, someone's going to have a problem with it.

I dont see it like that. I see it as the typical person with high political aspirations who will say ANYTHING they think will help get votes.

I guess as she said this in front a huge crowd of Obama supporters, she thought no one else would find out?

It was a dumb thing to say and no amount of spin can alleviate that. BUT, I really dont think she meant it--she was just selling out to politics.

 

[alldiz]

Well, I do think we will be vulnerable to another attck after the election.

I think that the new administration will be "tested", probably within its first year.

I think the "new" administration will be tested....whoever they might be.
Unless we have already established McCain is not going to be "new"
Kerri

 

[need_a_Disney_fix]

I haven't been proud of my country for a while now. Does that mean I should leave? Isn't that an allowable emotion in an elected leader's wife? Should she stand there with a blank stare and wide smile on her face while waving a flag?

Am I missing something here? Why is this such a big deal?

Its all relative because I felt our country was "tarnished" during the Clinton years...seriously. I say this only if the bolded statement is another "bushwhack".

 

[JARNJ3]

To me - I've always been proud of my fellow citizens within my country and of the way the country was established - as a representative democracy.

Where I've had trouble being proud of my country (especially the last 8 years or so) is with my government and its elected participants - president - Republican Congress as a whole...... As November will soon prove - many of us will not be happy with the choice that is made. Many of us are unhappy with how this current government conducted the pre-emptive war......

I'm hoping that's what Michelle Obama meant to say......

 

[Glenn]

She said what she said & it was not out of context. The Chicago Tribune has a good cartoon in the prespective section today (Sunday). They picture her infront of 6 backgrounds while making her statement. The backgrounds are; a space shuttle launch, a person taking down the berlin wall, 9/11, a box marked USAID being given to a throng of people, a group of solders, the statue of liberty. This says it all. Yes we have problems, havent done everything right, have warts, but over all there has been more good than bad.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

While I don't think it was taken out of context I don't think she really thought through what her words really meant. I don't think she truly meant the words she has never been proud of her country. She should have worded it way different but I didn't take it as that big of a deal.

That's pretty much how I see it. I look at it as more of an exaggeration for the purpose sort of comment. I don't see it swaying anyone. Live and learn.

May I join you at Gitmo - 39 years old here and I am not proud of this country either. Maybe we could get a discount rate since there are so many of us!

Well you have less than a year to enjoy your stay, because if McCain is elected he intends to shut it down immediately.

 

[Pop Daddy]

shes kind of sexy, what was the question again ?

 

[va32h]

Its all relative because I felt our country was "tarnished" during the Clinton years...seriously. I say this only if the bolded statement is another "bushwhack".

You bring up an excellent point. The gist of the argument seems to be that only godless liberals would be ashamed of the great nation that is Americuh but as you say, plenty of people think Clinton brought shame and disgrace to the office and the country.

And there is another current thread on the board about a poster who wants to renounce her US citizenship and move to Switzerland because we just have too darn many freedoms here.

So it's possible to not adore American and All She Is and Ever Was and yet also have morals and stuff.

 

[DisneyMomOK]

While I admit this seems to be a pretty big faux pas, it could have been a misstatement (and I will give her the benefit of the doubt); however, her thesis had a statement that bothered me much more. Let me preface this by stating my GM's great GF was a member of the Eastern Cherokees and was "relocated" to Oklahoma (he and his brother managed to avoid the infamous Trail of Tears for 10 years until 1849, when they were "removed" from TN to Oklahoma, courtesy of the US government). In addition, I spent the last 26 years working for the US Department of the Interior, trying to ensure that tribes and Individual Indian mineral owners receive the monies they are owed. Consequently, when I read Ms. Obama's statement that no other group had faced any trials or injustices comparable to her own (page 54), I almost choked. Even though she had every right to claim African-Americans had been horridly mistreated and that mistreatment was a stain on our nation's history (a statement with which everyone would loudly agree), how could she not have empathy for numerous other groups/races/nationalities that also have been injured by society. Typically, when you are a college student you ooze with love and understanding for everyone, yet that statement, to me, echoed complete dismissal for the tragedies heaped upon every Indian tribe that ever had a "treaty" (none of which the federal government ever kept and which equated to genocide for many), or the immigrant Chinese that were killed in large numbers building the railroads, or the Japanese-americans that were treated like pariahs during WWII, or the NINA at the turn of the last century, or numerous other groups that have faced horrible injustice which, although not the same, no one should deem to summarily dismiss. This bothers me much more, because this was a document she seriously thought about before writing.

 

[wvrevy]

While I admit this seems to be a pretty big faux pas, it could have been a misstatement (and I will give her the benefit of the doubt); however, her thesis had a statement that bothered me much more. Let me preface this by stating my GM's great GF was a member of the Eastern Cherokees and was "relocated" to Oklahoma (he and his brother managed to avoid the infamous Trail of Tears for 10 years until 1849, when they were "removed" from TN to Oklahoma, courtesy of the US government). In addition, I spent the last 26 years working for the US Department of the Interior, trying to ensure that tribes and Individual Indian mineral owners receive the monies they are owed. Consequently, when I read Ms. Obama's statement that no other group had faced any trials or injustices comparable to her own (page 54), I almost choked. Even though she had every right to claim African-Americans had been horridly mistreated and that mistreatment was a stain on our nation's history (a statement with which everyone would loudly agree), how could she not have empathy for numerous other groups/races/nationalities that also have been injured by society. Typically, when you are a college student you ooze with love and understanding for everyone, yet that statement, to me, echoed complete dismissal for the tragedies heaped upon every Indian tribe that ever had a "treaty" (none of which the federal government ever kept and which equated to genocide for many), or the immigrant Chinese that were killed in large numbers building the railroads, or the Japanese-americans that were treated like pariahs during WWII, or the NINA at the turn of the last century, or numerous other groups that have faced horrible injustice which, although not the same, no one should deem to summarily dismiss. This bothers me much more, because this was a document she seriously thought about before writing.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the answer to the question, "Why won't the Obama campaign release Michelle's thesis."

 

[MzDiz]

Its all relative because I felt our country was "tarnished" during the Clinton years...seriously. I say this only if the bolded statement is another "bushwhack".

So then, would this not apply if my statement had nothing to do with Bush? I'm not sure I understand your point.

I haven't been proud of my country since I was a wide-eyed, naive child. How's that?

Don't get me wrong, I'm always impressed at America's people, but her government has me hanging my head in shame on a weekly basis.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the answer to the question, "Why won't the Obama campaign release Michelle's thesis."

I'm sort of confused. Do you think it's a valid point??

 

[hentob]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the answer to the question, "Why won't the Obama campaign release Michelle's thesis."

Wow. I thought DisneyMomOK wrote a candid and heartfelt post

 

[DisneyMomOK]

I'm sort of confused. Do you think it's a valid point??

I believe because I asked on Friday why Princeton had removed Ms. Obama's thesis, which was then officially released by Senator Obama's campaign on Saturday, wvrevy believes my comment is some right wing conspiracy. I did not comment on that thread, merely stated I had found and read it because I wanted to re-read it today. This is the statement I find objectionable: "...the struggles and a "consciousness' shared by its people may be attributed to the injustices and oppressions suffered by this race of people which are not comparable to the experiences of any other race of people through this country's history...." In my opinion, AND I CAN ONLY SPEAK OF MY OWN PERCEPTION, this is a denial that others have suffered greatly and, for some, the injustices continue. I am sure that wvrevy will read Ms. Obama's statements from his viewpoint and not see this in the same light as I. I just wished to voice my disappointment in Ms. Obama's writings.

(I did not post the link because it was a multiple page file, but it can be found at politico dot com part 3 of 4, page 54.)

 

[transparant]

While I admit this seems to be a pretty big faux pas, it could have been a misstatement (and I will give her the benefit of the doubt); however, her thesis had a statement that bothered me much more. Let me preface this by stating my GM's great GF was a member of the Eastern Cherokees and was "relocated" to Oklahoma (he and his brother managed to avoid the infamous Trail of Tears for 10 years until 1849, when they were "removed" from TN to Oklahoma, courtesy of the US government). In addition, I spent the last 26 years working for the US Department of the Interior, trying to ensure that tribes and Individual Indian mineral owners receive the monies they are owed. Consequently, when I read Ms. Obama's statement that no other group had faced any trials or injustices comparable to her own (page 54), I almost choked. Even though she had every right to claim African-Americans had been horridly mistreated and that mistreatment was a stain on our nation's history (a statement with which everyone would loudly agree), how could she not have empathy for numerous other groups/races/nationalities that also have been injured by society. Typically, when you are a college student you ooze with love and understanding for everyone, yet that statement, to me, echoed complete dismissal for the tragedies heaped upon every Indian tribe that ever had a "treaty" (none of which the federal government ever kept and which equated to genocide for many), or the immigrant Chinese that were killed in large numbers building the railroads, or the Japanese-americans that were treated like pariahs during WWII, or the NINA at the turn of the last century, or numerous other groups that have faced horrible injustice which, although not the same, no one should deem to summarily dismiss. This bothers me much more, because this was a document she seriously thought about before writing.

DisneyMom - I think your post is very valid and heartfelt.

 

[connorlevismom]

I don't know if she meant it or not. But she did say it two different times so I am leaning to she meant it. Has she come out and clarified what she meant or said that it was taken out of context? Because if not, she clearly meant what she said.

Kristine

 

[wvrevy]

I'm sort of confused. Do you think it's a valid point??

Wow. I thought DisneyMomOK wrote a candid and heartfelt post

No, I don't think it's legitimate. I think it's nonsense. Disneymom is objecting to one sentence in a thesis that was how many pages long? I mean...give me a freaking break. If people went back over the college papers of just about ANYBODY, they'd be sure to find a statement that they could TAKE OUT OF CONTEXT - just as DisneyMom did - and make a big deal out of. I'm sorry, but I think the notion that anybody should give a rat's derriere about what Michelle Obama wrote in her thesis 20 years ago is completely ridiculous.

I believe because I asked on Friday why Princeton had removed Ms. Obama's thesis, which was then officially released by Senator Obama's campaign on Saturday, wvrevy believes my comment is some right wing conspiracy. I did not comment on that thread, merely stated I had found and read it because I wanted to re-read it today. This is the statement I find objectionable: "...the struggles and a "consciousness' shared by its people may be attributed to the injustices and oppressions suffered by this race of people which are not comparable to the experiences of any other race of people through this country's history...." In my opinion, AND I CAN ONLY SPEAK OF MY OWN PERCEPTION, this is a denial that others have suffered greatly and, for some, the injustices continue. I am sure that wvrevy will read Ms. Obama's statements from his viewpoint and not see this in the same light as I. I just wished to voice my disappointment in Ms. Obama's writings.

(I did not post the link because it was a multiple page file, but it can be found at politico dot com part 3 of 4, page 54.)

Again, I'm not going to argue the meaning of it, as I simply do not think it is relevant, and the only reason anybody would is to use it to smear the campaign (completely regardless of the fact that there is no there there to smear with). We've got very serious problems in this country and very serious differences of opinion on how they need be addressed. Going off on tangential nonsense like this just distracts from the real issues for nothing more than the pleasure of those few that enjoy the political bloodsport when played at it's most disgusting.

 

[Charade]

No, I don't think it's legitimate. I think it's nonsense. Disneymom is objecting to one sentence in a thesis that was how many pages long? I mean...give me a freaking break. If people went back over the college papers of just about ANYBODY, they'd be sure to find a statement that they could TAKE OUT OF CONTEXT - just as DisneyMom did - and make a big deal out of. I'm sorry, but I think the notion that anybody should give a rat's derriere about what Michelle Obama wrote in her thesis 20 years ago is completely ridiculous.

I could make the statement that I believe the world is flat and give 95 pages thesis on why I believe that. Still doesn't change the fact that I believe the world is flat. The whole point of a thesis is to explore a specific topic in detail. So not much in it can be taken out of context.