Merging on a Highway

Good lord, how long does it take you change lanes? Driving home last night, thinking about this thread, I tried it. Less than 5 seconds to move from one lane into another.

If I was the OP in the situation as described, assuming the lane to the left of me is clear, I see a car entering the highway and will at least be close to wanting to merge as I'm getting to the same spot. I check the left lane, turn on my blinker, and move over.

The other car merges onto the right lane. Are they going faster then me? If so, when they've gotten far enough ahead that it's safe, I put on my blinker, check traffic, and move back to the right lane. Are they going slower than me? If so, when I've gone past them enough, I put on my blinker, check traffic, and move back to the right lane. I can adjust my speed to either get in front of them or behind them safely in probably ~1/4 mile.
And in traffic, this actually creates one of those zipper scenarios everyone here seems to love. In effect, you and the other car trade places, having already carved out a space for each other in the relevant lane.
 
The problem is the zipper merging is not what you think it is. A zipper doesn't come together in one place. It is a continuous action from bottom to top. That is why they warn you more then a few miles back. A zipper that only connects at the top leaves everything not connected the rest of the way down and nothing can move. The defined merge area is from the first warning that one of the lanes will be closed up ahead.

If it is anything other than smooth transition than whoever made that recommendation never drove a vehicle. There will always be a few legit instantses when it can't be helped, however, to shoot up two miles of opportunities to merge to get ahead of everyone only to force traffic to stop so your ego can shine, is not how it is defined or intended.
Wait, are you trying to say the zipper merge doesn't work because it doesn't meet the definition of a zipper? LOL.

There's no doubt a zipper merge would decrease the backup. 100 cars in a backup would be half as long if the cars are in two lanes vs one. I don't think anyone can deny that.

"They" say a zipper merge gets traffic through the area quicker. I would agree in theory, in practice I'm not convinced because you'll end up with people NOT letting someone in front of them at the point they're supposed to because THEIR ego won't allow it.

"They" say a zipper merge is safer. Not sure how that is measured, because again, I think you have driver A in the through lane who gets upset because driver B, in the merging lane, "gets in front of him" and will use his car to block driver B. That of course will make driver B upset, and possibly try to "force" his way into miniscule space, and you end up in an accident.
 
Wait, are you trying to say the zipper merge doesn't work because it doesn't meet the definition of a zipper? LOL.

There's no doubt a zipper merge would decrease the backup. 100 cars in a backup would be half as long if the cars are in two lanes vs one. I don't think anyone can deny that.

"They" say a zipper merge gets traffic through the area quicker. I would agree in theory, in practice I'm not convinced because you'll end up with people NOT letting someone in front of them at the point they're supposed to because THEIR ego won't allow it.

"They" say a zipper merge is safer. Not sure how that is measured, because again, I think you have driver A in the through lane who gets upset because driver B, in the merging lane, "gets in front of him" and will use his car to block driver B. That of course will make driver B upset, and possibly try to "force" his way into miniscule space, and you end up in an accident.
Another way it's unsafe (and it happens to me every day) is that people who are in traffic and are in the lane that need to merge are slamming their brakes looking for an early entry. The cars behind them are assuming that they are going to go to the end of the merge lane, but they don't which results in lots of brake slamming. Or the early merger is so desparate to merge over that the end up cutting in at an incorrect speed. I see this every day. But the people who think it's rude to go all the way to the end will die on that hill, I tell you they will.
 
Let's face it. The people who've lined up all these years have bruised egos, and they'll fight to the death about how they think they're right, even when given the facts.
 

always be a courteous driver, let the person in. I hate those drivers that pretend they own the road. Is it worth it, is your ego that shallow. They play this game on the road to vegas, 2 lanes, some idiot gets next to a truck and refuses to move for miles, and backs up a line of cars. Sure it is legal, it is also very dangerous.
 
always be a courteous driver, let the person in. I hate those drivers that pretend they own the road. Is it worth it, is your ego that shallow. They play this game on the road to vegas, 2 lanes, some idiot gets next to a truck and refuses to move for miles, and backs up a line of cars. Sure it is legal, it is also very dangerous.

This is why I fly to Vegas. That drive is awful on that highway.
 
I think you're being a bit more literal on the zipper part. The zipper is just meant to illustrate how cars should work on merging where each person takes turns on merging but the zipper part of the name doesn't mean to start from bottom and work to top. They don't want you to merge early and that would not be what a zipper merge is. You start the zipper merge at the merge point and the merge point isn't all the way back.

Respectfully you've got the zipper merge backwards and are describing the old way.

Here's how my state's DOT shows it
View attachment 783194
View attachment 783195


View attachment 783196
I know it's hard, I was a really long resister of it and can still find myself doing it just based on my past from time to time but if you actually had 2 miles of warning for a lane closure and you're told to use the zipper merge you should wait and NOT merge early
Whoever created that graphic is living in a dream world where people are polite and courteous. That isn't the real world and it still causes traffic to have to stop. The purpose of letting people know sometimes miles in advance is to give traffic enough time to merge without causing others to have to stop. That is what causes the lines to back up and movement to just be creeping along, stop and go.

I am acutely away of just how many jerks are on the highway and how many do not understand the rules of the road (not to mention the laws of the road). I'm also aware that when given the chance drivers will interpret the rules of the road whatever way they want. That means that some will feel that it means to merge asap and other will see a zipper as something that only connects at the top. One of those is wrong and it isn't the first one.

It's a lot like Disney World before FP. One line that kept moving, first come, first serve. No holdups, no unnecessary stopping. Add fastpass and two lines causes one line to have to wait while the others bunch up and connect at the end of the line. It is common sense that a single line will keep moving and no one can bully their way ahead.
 
Wait, are you trying to say the zipper merge doesn't work because it doesn't meet the definition of a zipper? LOL.

There's no doubt a zipper merge would decrease the backup. 100 cars in a backup would be half as long if the cars are in two lanes vs one. I don't think anyone can deny that.

"They" say a zipper merge gets traffic through the area quicker. I would agree in theory, in practice I'm not convinced because you'll end up with people NOT letting someone in front of them at the point they're supposed to because THEIR ego won't allow it.

"They" say a zipper merge is safer. Not sure how that is measured, because again, I think you have driver A in the through lane who gets upset because driver B, in the merging lane, "gets in front of him" and will use his car to block driver B. That of course will make driver B upset, and possibly try to "force" his way into miniscule space, and you end up in an accident.
I can deny it. The same number of cars can get through at any given time, but those that are in the actual open line will have to wait twice as long as they should have because the second line that at the top is forcing into their line causing delays for the line that followed instructions. Theoretically, every single car in that outside line should be behind that last one in the original line. Instead whoever follow the "rules of the road" will basically be having to wait for every single vehicle in the second line (the ones that should be behind the original line) thus extending his time in line by that many vehicles. It makes sense if you are habitually one of the ones that skips to the front of the line but if you get stuck at the end of the original line it makes all the difference in the world.
 
Whoever created that graphic is living in a dream world where people are polite and courteous. That isn't the real world and it still causes traffic to have to stop. The purpose of letting people know sometimes miles in advance is to give traffic enough time to merge without causing others to have to stop. That is what causes the lines to back up and movement to just be creeping along, stop and go.

I am acutely away of just how many jerks are on the highway and how many do not understand the rules of the road (not to mention the laws of the road). I'm also aware that when given the chance drivers will interpret the rules of the road whatever way they want. That means that some will feel that it means to merge asap and other will see a zipper as something that only connects at the top. One of those is wrong and it isn't the first one.

It's a lot like Disney World before FP. One line that kept moving, first come, first serve. No holdups, no unnecessary stopping. Add fastpass and two lines causes one line to have to wait while the others bunch up and connect at the end of the line. It is common sense that a single line will keep moving and no one can bully their way ahead.
Well it's precisely why they needed to create a graphic when introducing it to our state in 2016 because until people adhere to zipper merge when advised to use it you'll run into situations where issues arise. But it's because people want to cling to the old ways, I was one of those people several years back but it's been in my state and in my area in particular for 7 years now, eventually people have to adapt just like they have with diverging diamonds (first one in the U.S. was in my metro) and copious amounts of roundabouts.

I was just driving 8 hours to and from Chicago in the last several weeks. If everyone merged early good gosh I do not want to imagine how bad the traffic would have been. It was 3 mile stretch down to one lane, then 4 miles, then 5 miles and with a good amount of semi trucks and 45mph work zones starting long before the lane closure. They gave you about 1.5 to 2 miles advanced warning.

But you've got the zipper merge backwards in how you're thinking about it. I would disagree about your purpose of letting people know part especially when you're met with signs telling you to merge now and never have I encountered one that says to merge now 2 miles back from a lane closure notice, it's always close to when the lane ends.
 
I can deny it. The same number of cars can get through at any given time, but those that are in the actual open line will have to wait twice as long as they should have because the second line that at the top is forcing into their line causing delays for the line that followed instructions.
Not true. If people followed the rule, half the cars in the line would be in the other lane, perhaps making their wait even shorter.
 
I can deny it. The same number of cars can get through at any given time, but those that are in the actual open line will have to wait twice as long as they should have because the second line that at the top is forcing into their line causing delays for the line that followed instructions. Theoretically, every single car in that outside line should be behind that last one in the original line. Instead whoever follow the "rules of the road" will basically be having to wait for every single vehicle in the second line (the ones that should be behind the original line) thus extending his time in line by that many vehicles. It makes sense if you are habitually one of the ones that skips to the front of the line but if you get stuck at the end of the original line it makes all the difference in the world.

Where do you live that this happens?

I live in Southern CA, where we have massive 6 lane freeways with merge points like every quarter mile. Traffic is a beast here, but at least it's not an issue at merge points because for the most part, people know how to merge properly.

I find driving behavior very regional. In Northern VA, for example, NO ONE knows how to merge. It drove me mad for the 4 years we lived there.
 
Where do you live that this happens?

I live in Southern CA, where we have massive 6 lane freeways with merge points like every quarter mile. Traffic is a beast here, but at least it's not an issue at merge points because for the most part, people know how to merge properly.

I find driving behavior very regional. In Northern VA, for example, NO ONE knows how to merge. It drove me mad for the 4 years we lived there.
As a person who lives in Northern VA, I hear ya! When I visit my son in San Diego I'm amazed at how well-behaved everyone is there. It's noticable. Here in NoVA, the zipper merge is generally not done because of what I posted upthread: rude, entitlement drivers who *cannot ever* let someone in front of them. Ever. It offends their "rights" and challenges their superior entitlement mentality. You cannot ever let one of them think you're getting over on them. Therefore, in order to avoid the wrath of these jerks, you are constantly slowing and speeding, trying to find the weak person who's lagging so you can get over. My drive home is a battle every single day.
 
I can deny it. The same number of cars can get through at any given time, but those that are in the actual open line will have to wait twice as long as they should have because the second line that at the top is forcing into their line causing delays for the line that followed instructions. Theoretically, every single car in that outside line should be behind that last one in the original line. Instead whoever follow the "rules of the road" will basically be having to wait for every single vehicle in the second line (the ones that should be behind the original line) thus extending his time in line by that many vehicles. It makes sense if you are habitually one of the ones that skips to the front of the line but if you get stuck at the end of the original line it makes all the difference in the world.
I don't think you're picturing what I'm saying. Let's say you have 100 cars. Average length is 15'. That means, bumper to bumper (let's go without spacing just for the example), if you lined up all the cars, that line would be 1500 feet long. With me so far?

Now, put half of those cars in a 2nd lane. Each lane has 50 cars. Average length is 15'. The lines would be 750 feet long.
You can't deny that. If you can, please go ahead and try.

As far as how long it takes a random car of those 100 to get through is what's up in the air IMO. Odd number cars in the "through" lane, even number cars in the right. How long until car 35 gets to the one lane portion of the road? How long until car 76 gets to the one lane portion? In THEORY, the zipper has every car going in order, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. Now, what happens if car 5 decides "#4 is a jerk and trying to get one over on me, I'm not going to let him in." So now the order is 3, 5, 4, 6.

If I understand your bolded correctly, you think the order should go 1, 3, 5, 7..., 49, 2, 4, 6,... 48, 50. That has NEVER happened that I've seen. Even those that "merge early" are going some random place in line.
 
the last thing you want to do is slow down when entering the freeway. That is extremely dangerous to the cars behind you
But when the person already doing highway speed slows down, it's not "extremely dangerous to the cars behind them."?

No, you don't WANT to slow down when entering a highway. Sometimes you have to.
 
The signs don't tell you to MERGE NOW. They tell you a lane is going to be closed up ahead, so you have notice that you might have to slow down. The rule is to zipper; it's not a debate. So the ones who line up are the ones who are NOT following the rules AND they're the ones getting mad when others do.


Exactly.
When a sign on the road from Cal Trans tells me the right lane is closed and ahead (2 miles before) and to merge left, so you are saying they mean to go up to the closed cones and try to get over then instead of merging when safe to do so? Our freeway was doing repaving and if someone waited until they got to the cones, 99% chance they'd have to slam on their brakes hoping someone will let them over instead of safely merging 2 miles back when they saw the sign. EXACTLY. Saw it happen. And to the other poster, the sign was 2 miles in advance because I looked after this thread.
 
When a sign on the road from Cal Trans tells me the right lane is closed and ahead (2 miles before) and to merge left, so you are saying they mean to go up to the closed cones and try to get over then instead of merging when safe to do so? Our freeway was doing repaving and if someone waited until they got to the cones, 99% chance they'd have to slam on their brakes hoping someone will let them over instead of safely merging 2 miles back when they saw the sign. EXACTLY. Saw it happen. And to the other poster, the sign was 2 miles in advance because I looked after this thread.

If traffic is flowing smoothly and there is an opening in the lane you need to merge into, then certainly you can and should early merge. Early merge is the correct procedure for light to moderate traffic, where you can merge into the other lane without anyone slowing down and without stopping and blocking your current lane to do so. If the lane you need to get into is bumper to bumper and there isn't an opening to easily merge, then that is heavy traffic, and the zipper merge is the recommended method - where you would proceed all the way to the cones. Enough people should be in the right lane that is ending that it's moving about the same speed as the through lane.

Because it's apparently very confusing which method to use under which traffic conditions, I've heard of 'dynamic zipper merging' whereby an electronic sign would indicate to use zipper merging when sensors detect that traffic is heavy. That could help reduce the vigilante-through-lane driver that doesn't understand zipper merging and plans to try and cause an accident by keeping someone from safely merging.
 
Whoever created that graphic is living in a dream world where people are polite and courteous. That isn't the real world and it still causes traffic to have to stop. The purpose of letting people know sometimes miles in advance is to give traffic enough time to merge without causing others to have to stop. That is what causes the lines to back up and movement to just be creeping along, stop and go.

I am acutely away of just how many jerks are on the highway and how many do not understand the rules of the road (not to mention the laws of the road). I'm also aware that when given the chance drivers will interpret the rules of the road whatever way they want. That means that some will feel that it means to merge asap and other will see a zipper as something that only connects at the top. One of those is wrong and it isn't the first one.

It's a lot like Disney World before FP. One line that kept moving, first come, first serve. No holdups, no unnecessary stopping. Add fastpass and two lines causes one line to have to wait while the others bunch up and connect at the end of the line. It is common sense that a single line will keep moving and no one can bully their way ahead
When a sign on the road from Cal Trans tells me the right lane is closed and ahead (2 miles before) and to merge left, so you are saying they mean to go up to the closed cones and try to get over then instead of merging when safe to do so? Our freeway was doing repaving and if someone waited until they got to the cones, 99% chance they'd have to slam on their brakes hoping someone will let them over instead of safely merging 2 miles back when they saw the sign. EXACTLY. Saw it happen. And to the other poster, the sign was 2 miles in advance because I looked after this thread.
The early warning signs, generally 2 miles, 1 mile and 1/2 mile, are to let you know there is work ahead. Be alert, be cautious. They do not mean you must merge now. Yes, if traffic is heavy, they mean use BOTH lanes to the merge point.

FILL IN ALL AVAILABLE SPACE and take turns.

If one lane is moving and never needs to stop at a lane closing, there’s no need for a zipper merge.
 
Engineer here - please, for the love of god, zipper merge.

It’s how that construction taper is DESIGNED to work. The merge point is not some random location, it’s designed. The merge ahead sign 1/2 mile ahead is to inform you that you are going to merge “ahead” so that you aren’t cluelessly barreling into a lane closure at 70 mph. It does not mean you must merge now.

It has nothing to do with being polite or someone else being an a$$. To put it in Disney-speak - use all the available space!
We have had a lot of road work on the main highway near my house (building new bridges, repaving, etc). Most recently when they closed a lane, there was a lot of info and specific instructions trying to get people to zipper merge.

There were multiple notices that the lane would end X distance ahead, but the signs said to use both lanes until you reached the merge point, fill in all available space, then there were huge flashing signs that said "MERGE HERE" and "TAKE TURNS" right at the merge area.

It was glorious. Traffic slowed down of course, but no one was slamming on their brakes, no one was blocking the lane, no road rage behavior. We all filed through continuously and went on our way.

Let's face it. The people who've lined up all these years have bruised egos, and they'll fight to the death about how they think they're right, even when given the facts.
This is it exactly. I will fully admit that when I was younger I though people were "jerks" or trying to "cut in line" (because that's how my parents reacted during merge zones so I assumed they were correct). But, the first time I heard the logic of a zipper merge, my view changed. My spouse had the same reaction-- immediately changed how he approaches a merge. It's bizarre to me that some people are unable or unwilling to change their opinion or behavior when presented with a better way of doing something.
 














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