Merging on a Highway

[snowwite]

Traffic lights at a roundabout? That's hilarious.

the video is someone saying the sign is wrong but it shows how the Scottish ones work. They added lovely sculptures in the middle of most of them. It’s also a bit confusing as they are quite big and have multiple lanes. We have one and the person in the rotary has the right of way and those entering are meant to yeild.

 

[sam_gordon]

 

[snowwite]

 

[DeeBee3]

Nailed it.

I lived in Cortland, NY for a few years.

I knew it must have been "real upstate" because where I am in the Hudson Valley, people drive like lunatics. I think most are commuting to NYC and lower Westchester. No one follows any semblance of rules that you are supposed to follow.

Also, living near the Taconic proper merging is necessary because I have on-ramps/off-ramps close together as well as long distances between exits.

The other issue we have here on non-highways is passing on the shoulder where there is a solid white line. 90% of people pass around a car who is stuck at a light or making a turn. For people who actually follow the driving rules, it is very dangerous. You are not allowed to pass in the shoulder or over a solid white line so then when you (the non-passer) wait for the turner, you can easily get hit by the people passing you on the shoulder. You have to eyes all over the place. It's a real problem. Something I encounter multiple times a week.

 

[Moliphino]

***Rotaries in MA IME operate very differently.

The East Longmeadow rotary certainly does. The people in the inner circle do NOT have the right of way.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

 

[NotUrsula]

Ever driven in Nashville? People in the left turn lane with a green light wait AT THE LINE to turn left, instead of proceeding halfway into the intersection to wait until there's an opportunity to turn! It's infuriating.

And what you think they should be doing is actually illegal in Tennessee, as it is in several other states. It is usually referred to as "obstructing an intersection", and the rule is that you may not stop in the middle of one, regardless of what color the light is showing. The point is to keep the intersection clear for any emergency vehicles that may need to come through.

About zipper merges, I agree that they are the better way, but I believe that most U.S. drivers don't understand the concept properly, and right now road rage and the fear of it are working against widespread adoption of the zipper model. I think that the only way it will truly become standard is via a lot of extra signage and a massive public education campaign.

 

[gmi3804]

And what you think they should be doing is actually illegal in Tennessee, as it is in several other states. It is usually referred to as "obstructing an intersection", and the rule is that you may not stop in the middle of one, regerdless of what color the light is showing. The point is to keep the intersection clear for any emergency vehicles that may need to come through.

That's absolutely false. The rule is to proceed into the intersection on a green light to wait until it's safe to turn. In every state in the country.

 

[RedHead0186]

That's absolutely false. The rule is to proceed into the intersection on a green light to wait until it's safe to turn. In every state in the country.

Sorry, that's not true. Florida Statue 316.2061 stated: No driver shall enter an intersection or a marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection or crosswalk to accommodate the vehicle the driver is operating without obstructing the passage of other vehicles or pedestrians, notwithstanding any traffic control signal indication to proceed. A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318. In the story where I found this, Florida Highway Patrol confirmed this in laymen's terms: "drivers should not enter an intersection unless they can successfully clear the intersection; blocking the intersection is illegal. Once entering an intersection, drivers have the full duty to exit the intersection."

This is probably also the law in others states, this was just the first example I found. While not a law, I definitely was taught not to enter an intersection unless I can clear it.

 

[gmi3804]

Sorry, that's not true. Florida Statue 316.2061 stated: No driver shall enter an intersection or a marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection or crosswalk to accommodate the vehicle the driver is operating without obstructing the passage of other vehicles or pedestrians, notwithstanding any traffic control signal indication to proceed. A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318. In the story where I found this, Florida Highway Patrol confirmed this in laymen's terms: "drivers should not enter an intersection unless they can successfully clear the intersection; blocking the intersection is illegal. Once entering an intersection, drivers have the full duty to exit the intersection."

This is probably also the law in others states, this was just the first example I found. While not a law, I definitely was taught not to enter an intersection unless I can clear it.

That's the law in every state. You're just misinterpreting it. You CAN clear the intersection when you enter the intersection - when the light changes and the oncoming traffic stops, or if there is no oncoming traffic. You're not blocking anything more than other traffic proceeding through the intersection is. An example of not being able to clear the intersection is when the light is yellow when you're at the line; in that case, you don't enter the intersection and you stop.

 

[RedHead0186]

That's the law in every state. You're just misinterpreting it. You CAN clear the intersection when you enter the intersection - when the light changes and the oncoming traffic stops, or if there is no oncoming traffic. You're not blocking anything more than other traffic proceeding through the intersection is. An example of not being able to clear the intersection is when the light is yellow when you're at the line; in that case, you don't enter the intersection and you stop.

But what if the light turns yellow, and the left-turner can't turn because oncoming cars (going straight) are running the yellow light? Now the left turner is still in the intersection and the light has turned red. Now traffic going the opposite direction have a green, but they can't proceed because the left turner is still turning. Yes, all of that typically clears up quickly, but the fact remains that the left-turner is blocking the intersection so cars going the other direction cannot proceed. I see that happen quite often.

 

[gmi3804]

But what if the light turns yellow, and the left-turner can't turn because oncoming cars (going straight) are running the yellow light? Now the left turner is still in the intersection and the light has turned red. Now traffic going the opposite direction have a green, but they can't proceed because the left turner is still turning. Yes, all of that typically clears up quickly, but the fact remains that the left-turner is blocking the intersection so cars going the other direction cannot proceed. I see that happen quite often.

In those cases you wait for the oncoming to clear and then you finish your turn. Cross-traffic will not proceed until you're through. It happens all the time.

 

[sam_gordon]

But what if the light turns yellow, and the left-turner can't turn because oncoming cars (going straight) are running the yellow light? Now the left turner is still in the intersection and the light has turned red. Now traffic going the opposite direction have a green, but they can't proceed because the left turner is still turning. Yes, all of that typically clears up quickly, but the fact remains that the left-turner is blocking the intersection so cars going the other direction cannot proceed. I see that happen quite often.

Really? There should be at least a slight delay between one side going red and the other going green. That gives the person in the intersection time to "clear". If you stay behind the stop bar with a green light because oncoming traffic is blocking you, that light could cycle multiple times before you actually get a clear path. If you go into the intersection while the light is green, even if you have to wait for the red to go, at least one car will get through.

I agree there needs to be room ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE INTERSECTION before you should cross the stop bar. That's what that law says.

 

[gmi3804]

If you stay behind the stop bar with a green light because oncoming traffic is blocking you, that light could cycle multiple times before you actually get a clear path.

THAT'S WHAT THE NASHVILLE DRIVERS DO!!!

I'm a big ol' tree-huggin' lib'ral, but just this once I'd relax my deeply-felt principles and advocate for carrying semi-automatic weapons.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sorry, that's not true. Florida Statue 316.2061 stated: No driver shall enter an intersection or a marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection or crosswalk to accommodate the vehicle the driver is operating without obstructing the passage of other vehicles or pedestrians, notwithstanding any traffic control signal indication to proceed. A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318. In the story where I found this, Florida Highway Patrol confirmed this in laymen's terms: "drivers should not enter an intersection unless they can successfully clear the intersection; blocking the intersection is illegal. Once entering an intersection, drivers have the full duty to exit the intersection."

This is probably also the law in others states, this was just the first example I found. While not a law, I definitely was taught not to enter an intersection unless I can clear it.

I actually agree with the other poster in what I think they were meaning. I think what they were referring to is normal conditions not such one where you'd obviously be blocking the intersection. What you listed above is about intentional blocking. What they are talking about is sitting at the line with a solid green light and turning left.

It's the case of pretty much everywhere that you are not to block an intersection. So let's say you have a green light going straight just because it's green doesn't mean you should go if that means you'll be blocking the intersection and we all know drivers who think just because it's green and straight that they can go through but what they should be doing is waiting at the line until it's clear their vehicle can safely get across and completely through the other side.

Here's from my state's handbook:
"Left turns – When making a left turn and the light turns green, pull into the intersection to be ready to turn. Avoid cutting the corner so sharply that your vehicle is in front of someone approaching from the left. However, be sure to leave room for oncoming vehicles to turn left in front of your vehicle. Always turn left from the left-most lane or when lane markings indicate multiple lanes can be used for a left turn at the same time."

In addition they say this when discussing different lights for a solid green light: "Turning left at a steady green traffic light means you may turn but only when the intersection is clear to do so. You should always yield to the oncoming traffic flow and pedestrians." They say this because a solid green light with a left turn combination the person turning left doesn't have the right away and thus must yield to others (emergency vehicles are also included in another statement).

It's pretty clear it's about blocking an intersection and you have the go ahead so long as the intersection is clear. So in my state drivers should be entering the intersection so long as it's safe to do so. There are intersections that I know in high traffic I'm never going to make it turning left on a solid green and thus I know not to move up because I need that protected green arrow vs a solid green light. However, many of those high traffic points have been replaced with flashing yellow left turn signals (ETA: not solid, I'm meaning still an arrow) which still gives situation where you shouldn't enter the intersection but allows more time to clear the intersection if you are as the traffic signal for the straight traffic often turns red while the left turn is either still flashing yellow for a few seconds or is turning yellow then red. This means if you are in that intersection you usually have a protected way to turn left that didn't exist before with just a solid green.

 

[RedHead0186]

It's the case of pretty much everywhere that you are not to block an intersection. So let's say you have a green light going straight just because it's green doesn't mean you should go if that means you'll be blocking the intersection and we all know drivers who think just because it's green and straight that they can go through but what they should be doing is waiting at the line until it's clear their vehicle can safely get across and completely through the other side.

Unless you're a driver in Chicago, apparently, lol. I see this allllllll the time: green light to go straight, driver moves into intersection but cannot clear it due to backed up traffic. Light turns yellow, then red, and driver is still in the intersection. Light now turns green for traffic going the other way, but they cannot go straight because cars are blocking them. (Cue incessant horn honking, lol).

 

[gmi3804]

Unless you're a driver in Chicago, apparently, lol. I see this allllllll the time: green light to go straight, driver moves into intersection but cannot clear it due to backed up traffic. Light turns yellow, then red, and driver is still in the intersection. Light now turns green for traffic going the other way, but they cannot go straight because cars are blocking them. (Cue incessant horn honking, lol).

There's not that much time between when the car can turn left (even after the light turns red again) and the cross traffic stars moving. And it's the right thing to do to wait in the intersection.

Another thing to remember: When you proceed into the intersection in the left-turn lane and are waiting for a clear space to turn, NEVER turn your wheel in advance while stopped, in case someone hits you from behind. If your wheel it turned, you'll be pushed into the oncoming traffic. Turn your wheel only when you're going to make and complete the turn.

 

[Robber Baron]

There's not that much time between when the car can turn left (even after the light turns red again) and the cross traffic stars moving. And it's the right thing to do to wait in the intersection.

Another thing to remember: When you proceed into the intersection in the left-turn lane and are waiting for a clear space to turn, NEVER turn your wheel in advance while stopped, in case someone hits you from behind. If your wheel it turned, you'll be pushed into the oncoming traffic. Turn your wheel only when you're going to make and complete the turn.

If you pull into the intersection and wait, what happens if the right turners from the other direction come to a stop in the lane you are trying to turn left into?

Then your light turns red, you have absolutely nowhere to go, and now you are probably blocking 2 lanes of cross traffic.

 

[sam_gordon]

Unless you're a driver in Chicago, apparently, lol. I see this allllllll the time: green light to go straight, driver moves into intersection but cannot clear it due to backed up traffic. Light turns yellow, then red, and driver is still in the intersection. Light now turns green for traffic going the other way, but they cannot go straight because cars are blocking them. (Cue incessant horn honking, lol).

THAT drives me crazy. You should not enter the intersection (cross the stop bar) unless the other side of the intersection is clear. This is regardless of going straight or turning.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Unless you're a driver in Chicago, apparently, lol. I see this allllllll the time: green light to go straight, driver moves into intersection but cannot clear it due to backed up traffic. Light turns yellow, then red, and driver is still in the intersection. Light now turns green for traffic going the other way, but they cannot go straight because cars are blocking them. (Cue incessant horn honking, lol).

I see that from time to time in intersections here but not on a large scale thankfully. I will say having just drove to Chicago and then back from Chicago I'll agree with your assessment about Chicago drivers

We do have a newer traffic light installation in our city's downtown near the newly complete county courthouse. It's at the crosswalk but also an intersection (where those turning left onto the street just have a stop sign those going straight are traffic light controlled). It's a tad confusing and IME prone to blocking of the intersection.

So here the courthouse is on the top right. There are a "Stop here on Red" sign so you def. shouldn't be blocking at that point.



But the intersection has this which says "Stop on Red" then "Stop on Flashing Red then Proceed if Clear"

Pedestrians trigger the flashing red but it happens so inconsistently you may already be in the intersection when it happens and unfortunately if you're going the direction I have the screenshot of there's a train crossing not far away (the next traffic light) which also backs up traffic (especially as there's up to 88 trains per day going through there) and those turning left may also end up blocking the intersection should a pedestrian trigger the flashing red. I mean in the end it seems to work but it does add to more issues with blocking. Luckily it's a 3-way intersection rather than a 4-way so there's that.