MDE App Update & Recent “Refresh” Changes Discussion (we’re not doomed!)

[Searc]

We've been discussing this exact situation for pages now.

It was probably unnecessarily merged, like the other posts about this.

 

[MinnieMSue]

I decided to try it using the website for Peter Pan just now. I had 3 times to choose and picked the earliest. Then it said all fast pass times had been distributed for today. It should never have given me 3 times then said that. The 3 times it gave were actually very close to now. I was able to get thunder mountain but didn’t confirm it. I didn’t want to take it out of circulation for anyone. I have my 60 day FP booking Wednesday and need to get my ducks in a row on how stuff is going. I almost dread this trip with all the chaos going on right now. But assuming Southwest doesn’t cancel either of our flights we will manage to have fun anyway. Even if we find ourselves in lots of standby. Just need to keep tabs on the current situation day to day here

 

[loutoo]

Hi, all. A bit late to the party, but interested in thoughts on the motivation behind this change. Quickly read through the thread, and I know there’s been differing opinion whether this is a glitch or intentional.

If indeed intentional, why would WDW do this?

The popular opinion around here seems to be Disney is intentionally making it frustrating so you will spend money to make it work easier. I for one think that is a ridiculous theory.

I believe Disney is trying to make things more fair. A few days ago the knowledgeable power users had a far higher likelihood of scoring hard to get FP+s because they knew the tricks. Now everyone has the same crappy chance of having that FP snatched out fron under them.

Most of the recent changes both actual and theoretical have been about that same thing. Eliminating the advantage of the power user so that the everyday guest has more of a fighting chance. These boards and threads are populated by the power users, so every time one of the tricks that gives them an advantage is taken away, they seem to think Disney is out to ruin their experience. Disney is not out to ruin any ones experience. They are trying to improve the experience for the vast majority of guests who dont know the tricks.

That being said, the execution here was crappy and it seems to make the experience worse for everyone so hopefully they will find a way to fox it.

 

[Networth]

The popular opinion around here seems to be Disney is intentionally making it frustrating so you will spend money to make it work easier. I for one think that is a ridiculous theory.

I believe Disney is trying to make things more fair. A few days ago the knowledgeable power users had a far higher likelihood of scoring hard to get FP+s because they knew the tricks. Now everyone has the same crappy chance of having that FP snatched out fron under them.

Most of the recent changes both actual and theoretical have been about that same thing. Eliminating the advantage of the power user so that the everyday guest has more of a fighting chance. These boards and threads are populated by the power users, so every time one of the tricks that gives them an advantage is taken away, they seem to think Disney is out to ruin their experience. Disney is not out to ruin any ones experience. They are trying to improve the experience for the vast majority of guests who dont know the tricks.

That being said, the execution here was crappy and it seems to make the experience worse for everyone so hopefully they will find a way to fox it.

If Disney cares about the everyday guests so much why would they continue to cut staffing and park hours thus increasing wait times. How is reloading a page ("refreshing") hoping to get different results (different FP) a "power user"? A monkey can click a refresh button...

 

[Cinderumbrella]

How does this change affect just power users? If I’m not fast enough to click on the SDD FP then neither are the other 20 people who are seeing it?

 

[anomamatt]

If indeed intentional, why would WDW do this? Unlike recent potential/actual FP changes, this doesn’t close any loopholes that I am aware of. It would be pretty Machiavellian for WDW to intentionally make rolling FPs harder to get in order to monetize them. Also seems to undercut the rationale for the efficiency of the FP system more generally and also negatively affects guest satisfaction. What’s going on here?

There is a theory (that I am starting to fully believe) that previously when you were shown a FP-time, others were shown the same FP-time. And it was guaranteed for everyone who 'refreshed' at the right time. And therefore, the pool of FPs was increased beyond what it should have.

I think now we are seeing all FP inventory. But everyone is seeing that same inventory with no 'guarantee' to snag the FP.

Disney's motivation, if the theory is correct, is to limit the number of FP-times being artificially created.

 

[loutoo]

If Disney cares about the everyday guests so much why would they continue to cut staffing and park hours thus increasing wait times. How is reloading a page ("refreshing") hoping to get different results (different FP) a "power user"? A monkey can click a refresh button...

Let me be clear, there is nothing wrong with doing this.

I say power user not because it is difficult to do, but because the average person doesn't know to do it. The only reason that we all know to do it is because someone discovered how effective it is and shared it in places like this.

I didn't say Disney cared about the experience. I said they were trying to eliminate advantages a small group had over the majority. In Disney's opinion the advantage should have to do with onsite v offsite or other such things they can regulate and capitalize.

 

[Firestarlife]

There is a theory (that I am starting to fully believe) that previously when you were shown a FP-time, others were shown the same FP-time. And it was guaranteed for everyone who 'refreshed' at the right time. And therefore, the pool of FPs was increased beyond what it should have.

I think now we are seeing all FP inventory. But everyone is seeing that same inventory with no 'guarantee' to snag the FP.

Disney's motivation, if the theory is correct, is to limit the number of FP-times being artificially created.

If that is true, why would Disney even consider that to be a problem that they needed to fix? Were there too many FP being given out? I have not heard any evidence of that. If too many FP were being given out, wouldn't we heard complaints about overloaded FP lines?

 

[JETSDAD]

The popular opinion around here seems to be Disney is intentionally making it frustrating so you will spend money to make it work easier. I for one think that is a ridiculous theory.

I believe Disney is trying to make things more fair. A few days ago the knowledgeable power users had a far higher likelihood of scoring hard to get FP+s because they knew the tricks. Now everyone has the same crappy chance of having that FP snatched out fron under them.

Most of the recent changes both actual and theoretical have been about that same thing. Eliminating the advantage of the power user so that the everyday guest has more of a fighting chance. These boards and threads are populated by the power users, so every time one of the tricks that gives them an advantage is taken away, they seem to think Disney is out to ruin their experience. Disney is not out to ruin any ones experience. They are trying to improve the experience for the vast majority of guests who dont know the tricks.

That being said, the execution here was crappy and it seems to make the experience worse for everyone so hopefully they will find a way to fox it.

'Power users' are going to be at an even greater advantage though than the average user now than before. Everyone has the same opportunity under both the old system and the new system however with the new one most people are going to become completely frustrated/angry and likely give up even trying. When you see a 7DMT and click on it only to be told that you don't get it, you're not going to be happy. Those who can refresh fast and have very fast reactions, while still having the chance of missing out on some FP's, are far more likely to have greater success than the average user. I have been successful today in getting multiple FOP, SDD, 7DMT, & FEA. If I were simply loading the app and taking a look at what might be available, scrolling through options, and then choosing what I want (a typical user) then they would have all been long gone.

My theory (and I believe it's shared by many others who watch FP's closely):

Previously you would not see all options available. You could refresh a couple of times, see a bunch of options, then suddenly all of those option would be different and a different 'group' of options would be available. Refresh a few more times and the original set of options might show back up. I think that any given drop of FP's from users could be seen by multiple people and because it guaranteed you the FP by having it show up, multiple people would pick up the same FP's thus multiplying the actual amount of FP's in use. I could drop 2 FP's and 10 people might pick them up, now causing there to be 20 FP's instead of 2. With the new system we are all seeing the exact same thing as each other in 'real time' but it is now a race for those options. Unfortunately, by the time you see the FP as an option, someone else has likely already grabbed it.

The question then becomes, why? Why change to this way of doing things now? Could it be to simply reduce the overall number of FP's? I don't see where anybody really gains from that (especially Disney). If less people have FP's, more people go to standby, the standby line moves faster but there are more people. If people are going to be stuck in a standby line they likely are going to not bother with lesser rides and wait it out for top rides thus causing longer lines for top attractions. OR, maybe Disney wanted to reduce the overall number of FP's currently in play so that they could monetize FP's somehow. By reducing the number of FP's they can then essentially create more of their own and not slow down FP lines.

I honestly do not know where this is going but I can say that it is not going to benefit average users of the app.

 

[JETSDAD]

Now, what I think we will see if things don't change any further. I think it will simply magnify what we've seen in the past. Refreshing in the morning will offer the best chance of successfully adding additional FP's as there is less competition. Afternoons and busy days are going to be frustrating. Evenings, I'm not certain yet. Last night I had more success with good FP's at MK in the last hour or two of the park hours than I normally did. That's just one night though so I'm not going to judge based off of that. I also think it will be more important than ever when looking for a specific ride to simply grab whatever time you can and then modify. Previously it was just so you could refresh faster....now you need it at the top of the screen in order to avoid scrolling.

One little tip/trick. If you see an available time, even when modifying, that you really don't want, just click on it anyways...maybe even wait a few seconds to click on it. Sometimes that time will then be gone however since the system now might offer you a different time, the offered time MAY be better than the one you clicked on. If it doesn't happen, just back out and look again. For instance I had one offer me a time 1 hour earlier than the time I clicked on.

 

[cakebaker]

The popular opinion around here seems to be Disney is intentionally making it frustrating so you will spend money to make it work easier. I for one think that is a ridiculous theory.

I agree - I have no clue as to why it’s happening, but I can’t figure out how Disney is going to increase profits by this either. That’s just the standard refrain we hear every time there’s an issue.

 

[loutoo]

My premise was they were trying to benefit the high majority of people who didn't know it was to there benefit to hit refresh (or switch times)100 times. It is also my premise that they botched it royally on accident. I don't think they realized that the change would result in such a high number or % of failure.

In any case I outright reject the premise that Disney is trying to intentionally make a bad experiences so you will pay for a better one.

 

[JETSDAD]

My premise was they were trying to benefit the high majority of people who didn't know it was to there benefit to hit refresh (or switch times)100 times. It is also my premise that they botched it royally on accident. I don't think they realized that the change would result in such a high number or % of failure.

In any case I outright reject the premise that Disney is trying to intentionally make a bad experiences so you will pay for a better one.

I don't think they are trying to make a bad experience...I think they are trying to reduce the number of FP's in existence. In doing so, they have made a very bad experience for most and people should be telling Disney that.

 

[anomamatt]

If that is true, why would Disney even consider that to be a problem that they needed to fix? Were there too many FP being given out? I have not heard any evidence of that. If too many FP were being given out, wouldn't we heard complaints about overloaded FP lines?

Because:

1. Fewer FPs will create more demand for people buying them.

2. Fewer FPs will reduce standby line waits. The FP:standby load ratio is as high as 10:1, depending on park crowds.

3. And more generally they are fixing an unintended glitch. They have been doing that a lot lately (see: elimination of the rolling 60).

I’m not saying I agree with any of these changes. But I think there is plenty of reason for WDW to want to lock down FPs.

 

[MermaidMommy]

It was probably unnecessarily merged, like the other posts about this.

I don’t understand why this topic isn’t being allowed to be discussed as its own thread, especially now that it’s been confirmed that it affects all platforms. It’s not just an issue with the new update — it’s a change in how Disney is enabling the acquisition of any FP’s beyond the first three, and it’s affecting the old app, the website, and the new app. Consequently, it’s a big change in how people will be able to tour the park.

If this is a permanent, system-wise change, people need to know about it. And, even if it’s just a glitch that lasts a day or two, people in the parks now need to know about it. But, unless they happen to be keeping up with this thread (that doesn’t reference that issue in its title) they won’t know.

 

[Runnsally]

There is a theory (that I am starting to fully believe) that previously when you were shown a FP-time, others were shown the same FP-time. And it was guaranteed for everyone who 'refreshed' at the right time. And therefore, the pool of FPs was increased beyond what it should have.

I think now we are seeing all FP inventory. But everyone is seeing that same inventory with no 'guarantee' to snag the FP.

Disney's motivation, if the theory is correct, is to limit the number of FP-times being artificially created.

Interesting theory...this is not how I understood the system to work previously, but what do I know...

 

[anomamatt]

Interesting theory...this is not how I understood the system to work previously, but what do I know...

What do any of us know... except WDW. But I have previously used different devices and gotten multiple sets of high value FPs with the same time window. And popular ones like 7DMT. Just by refreshing at the same time. But it’s also possible there was actually 8-12 of them available all along. Only WDW would know that.

 

[SaintsManiac]

It was probably unnecessarily merged, like the other posts about this.

No blue arrow. I checked before I responded.

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

I don’t understand why this topic isn’t being allowed to be discussed as its own thread, especially now that it’s been confirmed that it affects all platforms. It’s not just an issue with the new update — it’s a change in how Disney is enabling the acquisition of any FP’s beyond the first three, and it’s affecting the old app, the website, and the new app. Consequently, it’s a big change in how people will be able to tour the park.

If this is a permanent, system-wise change, people need to know about it. And, even if it’s just a glitch that lasts a day or two, people in the parks now need to know about it. But, unless they happen to be keeping up with this thread (that doesn’t reference that issue in its title) they won’t know.

Hallelujah! Ding Ding Ding!
Two other people have tried (at least) and they almost immediately got merged to this thread..............very frustrating.

 

[SaintsManiac]

In any case I outright reject the premise that Disney is trying to intentionally make a bad experiences so you will pay for a better one.

Not necessarily in those words. There's a rumor floating around that they will start making us pay for FPs. It's just a rumor and all of this could be a coincidence. Only time will tell.