McCain Speech... What a hero

Jennifer, did you read what you wrote? You are arguing that people on the DIS need to stop knocking the other candidate down. Then in the very next sentence you knock the other candidate down.

Apparently I didn't - It was before coffee this am. I edited my comment and appologize. I really don't like the tone of these boards and I guess I have to start w/ myself. Sometimes it's hard. Sorry
 
Obama wants to make it possible so that every family can send their children to college to make a better life and find a better job for themselves. He isn't excluding only the ones that CAN afford it.

Healthcare is also important to me as well and Obama wants to make sure that EVERY single American has it, not just those that can afford it.

Like I said I respect the man for what he has done for our country, but we just differ on our views for the future.

Yes, Healthcare is important, but no where in his "comprehensive" plan that he has on his website indicates how he intends to pay for this.....

One specific line in this plan, jumps out at me: "Preventive care only works if Americans take personal responsibility for their health and make the right decisions in their own lives – if they eat the right foods, stay active, and stop smoking."

#1 - We already know that, so now if the government is going to control our health care services and you are not deemed to be not taking personal responsibility, will there be repercussions, such as paying more for your healthcare? As a nurse, I see many, many patients with medical issues that can be said were made worse by the patients actions (eating poorly, smoking, poor decisions) - and in the majority of cases, those are the people that are uninsured/underinsured - will they still be penalized?

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/HealthPlanFull.pdf

As for affordable college choices, those are currently plenty......you can get a good education at a State University for a less than $8000/year. Go to a 2 year college to complete your associate's degree and you can get your beginning requirements completed for under $4000/year. Loans are available to student's who do not qualify for grants or any of the state programs.

As for myself, I worked my way through colllege, paid tuition as I went, took loans for what I could not cover and paid it back when I started working. My son is currently doing the same thing. There is nothing wrong with a bit of hard work on the student's end, makes them appreciate the education and take the endeavor even more seriously.
 
John McCain's service to his country and subsequent time as POW shows us some things. McCain has personal courage. His actions while a POW also demonstrate an integrity that many people like to think they have, but few know they have.

These are both great traits to have in a President.

But McCain's experience as a POW did not bless him with sound judgment. McCain has very good judgement, but this is an ability that is unrelated to his POW experiences.

I'm sure there are many brave POW's who do not have all the skills to be President. I'm grateful McCain is one of those POW's who does have the skills. We need a man who has the skills and has the integrity. And how do we know McCain has the integrity, because his past allows us to see for ourselves.

McCain is truly a great candidate for President.

Let's take a look at Obama's great judgement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx2-pfr8r5I
 

Let's take a look at Obama's great judgement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx2-pfr8r5I

I'm not sure how to respond to this.

You do realize I was saying that John McCain has good judgment. My point is that you would have to look at places other than McCain's POW experience to find definitive examples of this good judgement.

The point of my post was to argue that McCain's time as a POW can tell you some things you need to know about McCain, but it can't tell you everything you need to know. The things McCains POW experiences can tell you are impressive. The things McCain's non-POW experiences can tell you are also impressive.

Together they add up to lots of reasons to vote for the man.



But maybe this isn't why you wrote your post. Maybe you understood what I was getting at, but since I mentioned that McCain had good judgement you used this as an excuse to bring up Obama's bad judgement.

I should probably bring up that my contention that McCain shows good judgement does not mean he has shown good judgement in every single decision and choice he has ever made. I would apply the same standard to Obama.

Obama chose to offer political support for Kwame Kilpatrick. Because of the actions that happened later, support for Kilpatrick didn't look like such a good idea. But its good to see that once all the evidence came out about Kilpatrick, Obama asked for his resignation. I think that shows good judgement.

Here's an interesting parallel. Among other things, Kilpatrick was convicted of Obstruction of Justice. If you remember, Scooter Libby was also convicted of Obstruction of Justice. But after Kilpatrick was convicted, Obama dropped all support for him. But after Libby was convicted and then appealed, many felt that McCain showed lukewarm support for Bush's pardon. Both Kwame Kilpatrick and Scooter Libby were convicted of Obstruction of Justice, yet Obama was willing to remove his support while McCain seemed to equivocate whether he would drop his support for Libby.

But this is a one time thing. Even if I was to think that McCain showed poor judgement in this one decision, overall I think McCain has shown excellent judgement.
 
SplashMtnCrew-

Can I first say, thank you so much for your kind words. I do feel that as a young person it is important to get involved no matter which side you are on.
I thank you and wish more were like you on this board, even though me may agree to disagree I am glad we can do it with a smile :flower3:

In regards to Education, which Mccain did speak of last night, he was talking about better public schools BUT he also mentioned Chartered and Private schools which do cost more money.

Also for my sister who just started College it is costing my parents ALOT of money, she tried to get as many scholarships as she could to help the burden, but it wasnt' enough. She wants to teach elementary education and is a very good student and I know she will do well.

I am just concerned for others who can't afford college because of their mortgage or other debt they may have aquired, shouldn't their children have the same oppurtunity to better themselves and be able to get a job that can pay well instead of minimum wage?

That is all that I meant by the Education that Mccain spoke about. I will be voting for Obama, like I said I respect and am thankful for Mccain, we just differ on other issues as well. I am a female too, sometimes you can't tell :flower3:

I look forward to the debates and let's see what is going to happen whatever does it will be historic and I am excited about that.
I had to pay my own way through college, with the VA (for my first 1 1/2 years) and with a lot of student loans. I went to college because, with 10 years in the Marine Corps and 2 years working out of it, I went to interview after interview where I was told "your experience looks great, too bad you don't have a degree". My pay when I quit to go to school? $20k a year. My pay when I got my first job from school? $7 an hour. I was then being told "your degree looks great, too bad you don't have any recent experience". The president when I graduated? Bill Clinton.

I have never been rich, and never will be. I will be lucky if I can get back up to $50k a year before I retire. My kids have known forever that they will have to pay their way through school. My daughter (oldest) is currently a CNA and is taking classes to become an RN. My son is a senior at college, at the college he wanted to go to, Wheaton College. Wheaton College is almost $30,000 per year. He is making it on his own. He could have chosen a cheaper school, but he's making it.

Anyone can go to college now. It isn't easy, it is expensive, but anyone can go to college. They just have to work to get there.
 
I'm not sure how to respond to this.

You do realize I was saying that John McCain has good judgment. My point is that you would have to look at places other than McCain's POW experience to find definitive examples of this good judgement.

The point of my post was to argue that McCain's time as a POW can tell you some things you need to know about McCain, but it can't tell you everything you need to know. The things McCains POW experiences can tell you are impressive. The things McCain's non-POW experiences can tell you are also impressive.

Together they add up to lots of reasons to vote for the man.




But maybe this isn't why you wrote your post. Maybe you understood what I was getting at, but since I mentioned that McCain had good judgement you used this as an excuse to bring up Obama's bad judgement.

I should probably bring up that my contention that McCain shows good judgement does not mean he has shown good judgement in every single decision and choice he has ever made. I would apply the same standard to Obama.

Obama chose to offer political support for Kwame Kilpatrick. Because of the actions that happened later, support for Kilpatrick didn't look like such a good idea. But its good to see that once all the evidence came out about Kilpatrick, Obama asked for his resignation. I think that shows good judgement.

Here's an interesting parallel. Among other things, Kilpatrick was convicted of Obstruction of Justice. If you remember, Scooter Libby was also convicted of Obstruction of Justice. But after Kilpatrick was convicted, Obama dropped all support for him. But after Libby was convicted and then appealed, many felt that McCain showed lukewarm support for Bush's pardon. Both Kwame Kilpatrick and Scooter Libby were convicted of Obstruction of Justice, yet Obama was willing to remove his support while McCain seemed to equivocate whether he would drop his support for Libby.

But this is a one time thing. Even if I was to think that McCain showed poor judgement in this one decision, overall I think McCain has shown excellent judgement.

MossMan,

You are a decent person. I enjoy your posts very much. Did I mention you are also hilarious?

Uh, I have nothing more really to say about the topic, but wanted to let you know that I do value your perspective....especially when it differs from mine.

I lose sight of these niceties sometimes when I am wearing my silly posting hat.

Regards,
 
I must be incorrect then about College if you are a resident of the State of Florida then. It was under my assumption that if they went to a state school their college was paid for.

I also know that NOTHING is free, someone has to pay for it.

Just like I know that I will be paying for this war until I am 50 years old as will my children if I chose to have any.
Yes, you are. If there was no cost, there would not be an instate tuition and fees.


http://www.admissions.ufl.edu/annualcosts.html

It is a lot cheaper though.
 
If there is nastiness in the DIS, wouldn’t you agree there is nastiness on both sides. If you read your entire post it seems to suggest that whatever nastiness is on the DIS comes from only from people who are opposed to your political point of view.
Is there nastiness on both sides? Absolutely. But, this year, I think a new low has come from the left. Again and again, they went after a 17 year old girl who's only crime was being the daughter of a VP candidate. Somehow, many equated that to the right asking questions about statements Michelle Obama made on the stump. Little bit of difference in my mind, but then I really don't get the new math that has come out of the Obama campaign (McCains changing position because gas prices went from $1.50 to $4.00 over a 4 year period is exactly the same as Obama changing positions 3 weeks later when the polls came out, Obama's relationship with Ayers, a known terrorist is exactly the same as McCains friendship with Graham, a US Senator that stated his mind in an embarrassing fashion, Obamas inexperience as President is 10 times better than Palin's inexperience for VP, after all she's a "heartbeat away from being President", Palin's "troopergate" where she fired a commissioner she had everyright to fire, because he wouldn't fire a state trooper that had taized his own stepson and was caught drinking while on duty DRIVING a state trooper car is worse than Obama being paid by Rezko for political favors). Just my thoughts.
 
The charge in this post is that Obama sells poltical favors for money. That’s a very serious charge. There is exactly no evidence presented to back up this incredibly serious claim. This is the type of thing that people actually go to jail for. But in this post it is an offhand remark that takes Obama’s campaign to task for unfair campaign strategies.
It is all part of the Rezko saga in Chicago. He got his house, his $1.4 million dollar house he had to have with Rezko's help. Rezko then got Obamas support in the State Senate. Coincidence? I think not.

I agree with you that it is a very serious charge. Unfortunately, the media doesn't think it is worth investigating. They are too busy investigating if Bristol Palin was the mother of Trig.

Obama’s experience, his wife’s comments, his colleagues from decades ago, his lack of specifity on issues and his Pastor have been discussed almost constantly by Obama’s political foes for over a year now. The press has looked into all of these. In some cases, the press is still looking into these issues.

Obama’s campaign has talked about these issues constantly. I’m sure Obama’s campaign would rather talk about other issues, but they know they have to face these questions head on.

In fact the one time it appeared in one speech the Obama campaign was trying to deflect criticism by bringing up race, Obama was roundly attacked for playing the race card. If the Obama campaign was truly exploring whether it could use race to deflect difficult questions, it instantly stopped such an exploration. The campaign has returned to answering questions head on.

We have known about Bristol for a matter of hours so far. The Obama campaign has so far only been supportive of Bristol and her boyfriend. There are many questions to ask Palin.

You may completely disagree with Obama’s policies. You may feel he is a poor candidate for POTUS. Certainly argue these points and vote against the man.

But don’t say he hasn’t done things he has done. And his political rival does not deserve unfair coverage, but at least admit his poltical rival shouldn’t be shielded from the coverage he has received.
One of Obama's "policies", and a very smart one, was to use the internet to an unprecedented level. They bragged and bragged about their internet savy and how they check all kinds of websites daily. But they were so suprised that Bristol was being attacked on Monday when the attacks on her began on Friday. Why did they take so long to attempt to silence the attacks? By the time they made a statement, it was too late. He should have spoken on Saturday. Perhaps he didn't know because his campaign staffer assigned to the DailyKos didn't tell him. Then, by Obamas own words that staffer needs to be fired and he needs to be fired publically. To not do so shows extremely poor judgement by a Presidential Candidate.

And why should he even have to be supportive of a 17 year old girl? We had Gustav coming in on New Orleans, we have the old standby of the War in Iraq, yet the most important thing the far left bloggers could concentrate on was a 17 year old girl?

As for his bringing up race, the way he brought it up was an implication that anyone, no matter who, no matter what they believe, no matter what they think, but anyone who votes against him its because "he doesn't look like all the other presidents on the dollar bills". Not exactly a smart way to do it. Again showing poor judgement.
 
I adress this questiion to both Democrats and Republicans. It seems as if it’s OK for Republicans to demean a Democrat like Kerry for his service to his county, but they object when Democrats do the same to Republicans. The reverse is true for Democrats

Maybe honoring service is something Americans should do for Americans. Maybe political affiliation has nothing to do with it. Instead of accusing the other political party, just stop doing it yourself.

Kerry had veterans that supposedly worked along side of him, calling his service into question. I don't know how true it was or not. I'm not saying it was right, but that's where it originated. The story had legs. The news media picked it up and people talked. It wasn't something the average Joe made up and ran with. It was news. Controversial yes, but there were vets that stood against Kerry as well as there were vets that were for him (if memory serves me). The public was all over the place with it. As was the case with the news. That was bantered around quite a bit.

I haven't come across any articles (not that I've sought them) diminishing McCain's POW experience. I have read here on these boards people mocking and knocking McCain being a POW. Looks like they do it for the fun of it.

It appears to be two different scenarios to me.
 
Is there nastiness on both sides? Absolutely. But, this year, I think a new low has come from the left.
New low? The Obama\Biden campaign have sunk to lower depths in their pursuit of victory than any campaign in the history of America.

Worse than McCain repeatedly accusing Obama of treason by saying he was willing to lose a war to win an election. (If someone accused me of that, I'd punch them in the face.)

Worse than repeatedly slandering John Kerry in 2004 and calling a man who had earned a Silver and Bronze star a coward and a murderer for actions that saved the lives of other American troops.

Worse than using raciest lies about John McCain's adopted daughter in 2000 to make it seem like he was having an affair.

Yes, I agree that there are some on the left who are happy to use anything possible to discredit the Republican ticket. And if Obama or a high level Obama staffer attacked Palin's family in this manner, it would be incredibly objectionable. But that hasn't happened. The only people making the attacks are those on the left who don't care about reasoned political discourse.

There are yahoos on the right who are still calling Obama a muslim terrorist. But McCain doesn't say that. So I don't blame McCain for all the right wing fanatics out there who will say anything to discredit Obama. But I also don't blame Obama for what the fanatics on the left say.
 
It appears to be two different scenarios to me.
Here's the difference. No one has written a book using innuendos and lies to attack John McCain and belittle his service to his country. There also hasn't been a rich Democrat who has stepped up and financially backed an organization to spread innuendos and lies about John McCain.

In 2004 there was such a book. There was also a rich Republican ready to invest in an organization to make false claims about Kerry's service. The reason the story had legs in 2004 is because it was relentlessly pushed by the book and by the organization.
 
New low? The Obama\Biden campaign have sunk to lower depths in their pursuit of victory than any campaign in the history of America.

Worse than McCain repeatedly accusing Obama of treason by saying he was willing to lose a war to win an election. (If someone accused me of that, I'd punch them in the face.)

Worse than repeatedly slandering John Kerry in 2004 and calling a man who had earned a Silver and Bronze star a coward and a murderer for actions that saved the lives of other American troops.

Worse than using raciest lies about John McCain's adopted daughter in 2000 to make it seem like he was having an affair.

Yes, I agree that there are some on the left who are happy to use anything possible to discredit the Republican ticket. And if Obama or a high level Obama staffer attacked Palin's family in this manner, it would be incredibly objectionable. But that hasn't happened. The only people making the attacks are those on the left who don't care about reasoned political discourse.

There are yahoos on the right who are still calling Obama a muslim terrorist. But McCain doesn't say that. So I don't blame McCain for all the right wing fanatics out there who will say anything to discredit Obama. But I also don't blame Obama for what the fanatics on the left say.
I don't agree with all of your points, but your point is well taken. The different, though, in everyone you sited, each one is way over 21, at least twice 21, with reporters following them every day and hanging on their every word. Each had their own opportunity to defend themselves. In my mind that doesn't compare to the attempted destruction of a 17 year old girl without a platform. That is why I call it a new low.
 
Kerry had veterans that supposedly worked along side of him, calling his service into question. I don't know how true it was or not. I'm not saying it was right, but that's where it originated. The story had legs. The news media picked it up and people talked. It wasn't something the average Joe made up and ran with. It was news. Controversial yes, but there were vets that stood against Kerry as well as there were vets that were for him (if memory serves me). The public was all over the place with it. As was the case with the news. That was bantered around quite a bit.

I haven't come across any articles (not that I've sought them) diminishing McCain's POW experience. I have read here on these boards people mocking and knocking McCain being a POW. Looks like they do it for the fun of it.

It appears to be two different scenarios to me.


The story had no legs....all of the men kerry commanded on that swift boat spoke of his heroism that day in the me kong, and he is a silver star winner and a purple heart recipient. Even McCain was appaled by the surilous attacks. It was a sad day for our country. John Kerry has been an outstanding senator for the people of our commonwealth
 
Here's the difference. No one has written a book using innuendos and lies to attack John McCain and belittle his service to his country. There also hasn't been a rich Democrat who has stepped up and financially backed an organization to spread innuendos and lies about John McCain.

In 2004 there was such a book. There was also a rich Republican ready to invest in an organization to make false claims about Kerry's service. The reason the story had legs in 2004 is because it was relentlessly pushed by the book and by the organization.

Were they established as innuendos and lies? What does it mean that a rich Republican was "ready to invest" in an organization to make false claims? That does not suggest action of any kind. "Ready" and participated are two different words.

The reason it had legs from my recollection is because the vets brought it to the forefront.
 
Here's the difference. No one has written a book using innuendos and lies to attack John McCain and belittle his service to his country. There also hasn't been a rich Democrat who has stepped up and financially backed an organization to spread innuendos and lies about John McCain.

In 2004 there was such a book. There was also a rich Republican ready to invest in an organization to make false claims about Kerry's service. The reason the story had legs in 2004 is because it was relentlessly pushed by the book and by the organization.
And Moveon.org isn't? What about Sosos? Isn't he a rich Democrat ready to make any claim against a Republican to have him defeated?

The swift boat ad against Kerry had nothing to do with my vote in 2004, but I'm sure it did for others. It may or may not have affected enough to win the election. I do agree it shouldn't have been an issue at all. It shouldn't have been in play. It was wrong to happen. It still doesn't justify the attempted destruction of a 17 year old girl.
 
The story had no legs....all of the men kerry commanded on that swift boat spoke of his heroism that day in the me kong, and he is a silver star winner and a purple heart recipient. Even McCain was appaled by the surilous attacks. It was a sad day for our country. John Kerry has been an outstanding senator for the people of our commonwealth
The bolded part is something we can agree on.
 
And Moveon.org isn't? What about Sosos? Isn't he a rich Democrat ready to make any claim against a Republican to have him defeated?

The swift boat ad against Kerry had nothing to do with my vote in 2004, but I'm sure it did for others. It may or may not have affected enough to win the election. I do agree it shouldn't have been an issue at all. It shouldn't have been in play. It was wrong to happen. It still doesn't justify the attempted destruction of a 17 year old girl.


But it was an issue...and what does it say about our country that one man can lay his life on the line for his country, and he can be accused of cowardice by those who never did, and there is no ramification....If the dems dared do that they would lose by 20 points
 
But it was an issue...and what does it say about our country that one man can lay his life on the line for his country, and he can be accused of cowardice by those who never did, and there is no ramification....If the dems dared do that they would lose by 20 points

That wasn't the issue. He was accused by men that did also lay their lives on the line. I brought it up because it was a different scenario than McCain's.

FTR. I didn't say it was right. But it is still a different scenario to me.
 


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