Maybe Disney was right about closing down Pleasure Island after all...

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I do have an opinion. Back in the "Shopping Village" days, many of the stores were completely unique, one-off places filled with items that you just couldn't get anywhere else. Today, shopping at Disney essentially equates to the same made-in-China "junk" from store to store. In addition to that, DS is adding a full-blown shopping mall component. My theory there is to keep guests from wandering off property to places like Church St. Station or other local outlets. Makes sense from a business perspective, but truly waters down the overall shopping experience for the consumer. Gone are the days of the "unique". Here to stay is mass-retail that resembles the local malls in my hometown.

Another prime example of the focus being solely on the stock price at the expense of watering down the brand.

I really don't remember that many unique shops, doesn't mean there wasn't-but I'm pretty sure they would not close shops that were very popular.

But even if they did-how would making more unique shops get more spending money in the hands of M's? Unless you think unique shops are really cheap products.

As for unique-that can work for dining as well. While AC was unique, a lot of what's coming is as well. And M's will not be able to afford unique there either.

I'm not sure what is there and still coming for unique shopping-but I think there is some.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

On a side note. If you are ever visiting SD, come to the Shout House in the Gaslamp Quarter (nightlife area). Best dueling piano place ice ever been to. Packed every night. They also add in drums and electric guitar at times. They can play almost every song. Very interactive. Always a huge age range. We sometimes go with my parents who are in their mid 50s. Sometimes go with our friends our age.

That's a great tip...I'll put it on the list if I should ever be in town.

And now I've identified the "bolt" reference...

I thought it was Tampa...I stand corrected.

 

[Andrew015]

I really don't remember that many unique shops, doesn't mean there wasn't-but I'm pretty sure they would not close shops that were very popular.

Just like they don't close any attractions that are popular? Maelstrom, Imagination, Horizons, 20K just to name a few. Your mileage may vary on the outcomes.

But even if they did-how would making more unique shops get more spending money in the hands of M's? Unless you think unique shops are really cheap products. As for unique-that can work for dining as well. While AC was unique, a lot of what's coming is as well. And M's will not be able to afford unique there either.

I'm not sure why you continue to put words in my mouth. I've never once said that the vision for DS should be "To make it more affordable to all Millennials". Rather, my take is that it should be an experience that is unique to Disney World rather than a dressed-up version of your average suburban shopping mall with the exception of a few themed eateries.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I'm not sure why you continue to put words in my mouth. I've never once said that the vision for DS should be "To make it more affordable to all Millennials".

My bad, now that I read your responses closer-I realize you have nothing but praise for way Disney is rebuilding DS.

I kept thinking you were kinda bashing them for what they were doing. But its now clear you can see exactly why they had to leave the M's behind because they have no money to spend (through no fault of Disney's whatsoever).

That was my entire point as well. My apologies.

Very interesting read. Thank you for sharing.

So the question for me then becomes this: If the Millennials were struggling to afford the $20 cover and $10 drinks, how are they going to afford the $110 surf & turf at Boathouse? Sure, there are more reasonable options on the menu, but I'm not convinced that you're going to spend an evening eating & drinking at Disney Springs any cheaper than you could at the DTD w/ PI of old.

My takeaway from the article and ensuing conversation thus far has been this:

• Millennials could no longer afford the night club scene, so demand began to wane.
• As a result, TWDC pulled the rip cord on PI.

In response, TWDC builds a mega shopping/drinking/dining complex that is even higher in price. A few conclusions can be drawn:

1. TWDC isn't concerned about the Millennials, and rather, is targeting the more affluent demographics (an eerily similar theme from another thread in which we went round' & round'...)

IMO, #1 makes the most sense. We're seeing evidence of this trend everywhere else around property. This fits in well with that theme.

Millennials have other financial obligations that make going out prohibitive that didn't exist for previous generations. Coming from a Millennial, I'd much rather hang out at PI than sit in my room on Facebook "being social".

IMO, this all circles back to cost, and I believe that DS will be even more cost-prohibitive for the average Millennial to "mingle" and drink/eat socially than was PI. Again, to my previous post, I really don't believe that TWDC cares that they're edging out this particular demographic. They're a bit more concerned with selling bungalows to the Louis Vuitton crowd to care.

But that's the point - PI was initially marketed mostly for young people. Young people don't have any money to spend - so Disney Springs is not even attempting to market to them. It's targeting the same thing the rest of Disney is. Middle/Upper class families. Certainly some of it is for locals, but it also to tempt vacationers to shopping/dining.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all here, Pete. This is the basis for my entire argument.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

than sit in my room on Facebook "being social".

By the way-love this comment.

Ya wonder how much money some folks could make just flippin burgers instead of sitting on here all day complaining about prices at WDW.

12 hours a day, $7 an hour 6 days a week is $30,000 a year, or even $7,500 in just 3 months.

I'm not saying give it all to Disney, or to charity, or to college-but the world is full of choices.

 

[Andrew015]

My bad, now that I read your responses closer-I realize you have nothing but praise for way Disney is rebuilding DS.

I kept thinking you were kinda bashing them for what they were doing. But its now clear you can see exactly why they had to leave the M's behind because they have no money to spend (through no fault of Disney's whatsoever).

That was my entire point as well. My apologies.

This thread is specifically talking about Millennials' collective ability to afford nightlife. If they couldn't afford PI, they're not going to be able to afford DS. Disney doesn't care, because they're not concerned about Millennials. That's my point as it relates to this thread. Period, end of discussion.

As much as you've tried, you've failed in your attempt to bait me in another direction: that Disney should cater to the Millennials. Disney should be concerned about offering experiences that enhance their brand rather than dilute it - for all demographics and/or generations. I'm not so much concerned about "cost" as I am about "value", and I just don't see where the Great Mall of Buena Vista delivers on that.

My message in this thread has been consistent with my messages in other threads. Give me something that enhances my experience, and I'll gladly pay more for the privilege. Dilute the experience AND charge more for the privilege - I'm not really into that. Carry on with the 5ths of Koolaid and lines of pixie powder.

 

[Andrew015]

By the way-love this comment.

Ya wonder how much money some folks could make just flippin burgers instead of sitting on here all day complaining about prices at WDW.

12 hours a day, $7 an hour 6 days a week is $30,000 a year, or even $7,500 in just 3 months.

I'm not saying give it all to Disney, or to charity, or to college-but the world is full of choices

If you're looking for some extra money to spend at the Disney-fied Apple Store, I'm sure one of your local fast food places must be hiring

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

This thread is specifically talking about Millennials' collective ability to afford nightlife. If they couldn't afford PI, they're not going to be able to afford DS. Disney doesn't care, because they're not concerned about Millennials. That's my point as it relates to this thread. Period, end of discussion.

As much as you've tried, you've failed in your attempt to bait me in another direction: that Disney should cater to the Millennials. Disney should be concerned about offering experiences that enhance their brand rather than dilute it - for all demographics and/or generations. I'm not so much concerned about "cost" as I am about "value", and I just don't see where the Great Mall of Buena Vista delivers on that.

My message in this thread has been consistent with my messages in other threads. Give me something that enhances my experience, and I'll gladly pay more for the privilege. Dilute the experience AND charge more for the privilege - I'm not really into that. Carry on with the 5ths of Koolaid and lines of pixie powder.

I hear what your saying-but "give me" something to enhance my experience is completely subjective/opinion. If attendance is rising, or continues to rise-then more guests are being delivered what they want.

You may find your in the minority as to what WDW is delivering with the brands shows/experiences, NFL, MK Hub, Frozen, DS, DVC (and yes MM+ and FP+) and esp after D23 with Soairn 2, TSM 2, AK Pandora and ROL, TS and Star Wars. And sounding like more to come.

I guess you could say adding Pandora and ROL to AK is not enhancing it, and adding TS Land to TSM is diluting the product and not enhancing it, and adding a Star Wars Land to S Tours is diluting the product and not enhancing it, but I doubt the majority will look at it that way.

 

[Andrew015]

I hear what your saying-but "give me" something to enhance my experience is completely subjective/opinion.

No doubt, but correct me if I'm wrong... you're the one who asked me for my opinion in the first place...

You may find your in the minority as to what WDW is delivering with the brands shows/experiences....

Of the Disney going population, perhaps. Of the folks who have been outpriced or simply choose to no longer go, perhaps not.

I guess you could say adding a TS Land to TSM is diluting the product, and adding a Sta Wars Land to S Tours is diluting the product, but I doubt the majority will look at it that way.

Depends on the outcome / execution. It may very well be worth the ~$150/day admission by the time the project is complete. Or it could be more heavy theming with little attraction substance. You're right in that this is all subjective / opinion. Hence the very reason we have a forum with topics such as this to discuss / debate.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

No doubt, but correct me if I'm wrong... you're the one who asked me for my opinion in the first place...

True enough. As long is that's clear.

Of the Disney going population, sure. Of the folks who have been outpriced or simply choose to no longer go, perhaps not.

Again true, the ones making choices in life will decide.

Depends on the outcome / execution. It may very well be worth the ~$150/day admission by the time the project is complete. Or it could be more heavy theming with little attraction substance. You're right in that this is all subjective / opinion. Hence the very reason we have a forum with topics such as this to discuss / debate.

Agreed again. HP Lands each only got one ride-but is far better than the rest of the parks IMO and in many opinions.

Unfortunately the $150 admission is already in place there.

But another $150 will get you FOTL (one time for some rides), except for the HP stuff, unfortunately.

 

[dinolounger]

Maybe in the UK. Not here, at least in San Diego.

Bars and nightclubs are absolutely popping every night.

That's because SD is crammed with young single military. Take them out of the equation and the nightspots would be DOA.

 

[Bolt4Life17]

That's because SD is crammed with young single military. Take them out of the equation and the nightspots would be DOA.

The military guys generally hang around PB, OB, Oceanside, and Carlsbad. Not the Gaslamp. There is a reason I avoid those areas. I completely support our military but Marines are not fun to party with after they've had a few drinks. The Gaslamp (SD) is not predominantly military when it comes to going out.

 

[AllysonL]

I think a karaoke place or a piano bar like Jellyrolls/Howl at The Moon could be a great addition ... But on non weekend nights I'm not sure how well they do business as they aren't family targeted

I think it would probably still do pretty well. I don't know if you're familiar with Myrtle Beach, but they have this area called Broadway at the Beach. It's similar to DTD - it has a Margaritaville, tons of shopping, rides, etc. There's also a small area carved out for bars/clubs. One of which being a dueling piano bar. I've been there on several occasions and it always had a decent sized crowd. There's also a karaoke bar in there, along with an arcade under the same roof. So again, things for families while also accommodating an older/party type crowd.

To be quite honest, I took a 10+ year hiatus from Disney because I simply couldn't afford to go. Paying off student loan debt, living with my parents, getting married, having a family... that gets expensive! Granted, we can't really afford it now either... but I don't want to deprive myself or my daughter of doing things as a family. Anyway, all that time off was during the time period you speak off... the over 21 crowd. I'm 34 now, and just went back to Disney for the first time last December.

My sister is a local to DTD/DS, and she does go there from time to time for the movies or the bowling alley. But that's about it.

I feel like my post went totally off topic, so in closing, yes to a piano bar!