Maybe Disney was right about closing down Pleasure Island after all...

[Andrew015]

But that's the point - PI was initially marketed mostly for young people. Young people don't have any money to spend - so Disney Springs is not even attempting to market to them. It's targeting the same thing the rest of Disney is. Middle/Upper class families. Certainly some of it is for locals, but it also to tempt vacationers to shopping/dining.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all here, Pete. This is the basis for my entire argument.

 

[Lyricallie]

I'm pretty much the age range that would have been going to nightclubs. I'm 22, however I think the issue is less about money for nights out in the UK, in Glasgow I can get £1 vodkas. I think the issue is more it's a bit boring now. I've been going into clubs since I was 16/17. Every night is pretty much the same. Whilst I was at Uni I was out at clubs once a week. However now that I'm working full time I spend my free time doing much more exciting things because I have more money. More money to do expensive things than going out to the dancing. Also when you're on holiday you usually have more money to spend, or rather you're less concerned about what you spend as you're on holiday. I think we're all looking far to into it. Disney just decided to go in a different direction and one they could get more money from as people are more inclined to spend more money on fancy dinners and shopping when on holiday.

 

[DDLand]

By the way...I do want you to quit your day job, Andy...

I will too...and we can embark on the research project to find
Enough evidence to prove that bob Iger has...in fact...invested properly in wdw.

Enough people tell me I'm
Wrong that the evidence HAS to be out there...somewhere...

Right?

I know that many of my "detractors" (by their choice...I like the discussions) think those of my ilk will be put in our places with the BIG announcements this weekend...

But I'm gonna go with the house on that wager.
And the house keeps its money while trying to take mine. Like golden oak.

Honesty...it's "can't lose" for me
Either way...

I think there are two spending levels...

There's piles of evidence to support that WDW is investing enough to keep the company/balance sheet strong. The company is not loosing money, and in fact is growing nicely. The company is clearly investing enough to keep it strong for the short term.

The sad thing is WDW is loosing hundred of millions if not billions in potential sales. These losses don't show up on a balance sheet. They're easy to sweep under a rug, but right now WDW is not a maximized asset. It's probably the least maximized it's ever been.

At the same time it's making more money then ever, it appears to be loosing more then ever. (In potential sales)

All WDW needs to do is create a phenomenal product, one that's exciting.

So while Iger has been focusing on risky foreign plays, they've been ignoring something with a strong potential growth, a loyal fanbase, and Resort infrastructure in place.

That, in my humble opinion, is idiotic.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Just two weeks back...it was reported that 42 million millenials live at home in the US...

And according to many reports, Europe, especially southern Europe, has been going this way for years and despite (actually because of) the ECB's attempts to fix it, is getting worse not better. The same thing is true of the attempts (alleged) to fix the economy here in N. America and give young people meaningful job prospects.

My point is, not only has the target demographic shifted drastically, it's continuing to shift very quickly in the wrong direction for middle class people ... millenials being an outstanding example. Whatever target demographic Disney is aiming at is probably moving a lot faster than they think.

Of course there is still the top 10%, or 1%, or whatever Disney wants to aim for that will do extremely well. Making out like bandits. But can you concentrate enough of them in one small part of one town in FL to make a lot of money off them, basically with chain restaurants and chain retail?

I'm not worried for Disney at all and I don't care much what happens ... at worst they can always close some franchises and open up newer, more currently trendy ones. Assuming the rent actually got paid on the ones they closed down, and that there are a crop of new franchises who can raise enough money to build and stock new outlets.

 

[AquaDame]

My takeaway from the article and ensuing conversation thus far has been this:

• Millennials could no longer afford the night club scene, so demand began to wane.
• As a result, TWDC pulled the rip cord on PI.

In response, TWDC builds a mega shopping/drinking/dining complex that is even higher in price. A few conclusions can be drawn:

1. TWDC isn't concerned about the Millennials, and rather, is targeting the more affluent demographics (an eerily similar theme from another thread in which we went round' & round'...).
2. TWDC just wanted out of the "nightclub scene".
3. The article is full of it. The ~43 million (50%, by the way) of Millennials that are living out of their parents' basements should have plenty of money saved to spend clubbin' at DS.

IMO, #1 makes the most sense. We're seeing evidence of this trend everywhere else around property. This fits in well with that theme.

#2 has some merit, but I think it's a weaker argument. I think they wanted "out" of the club scene - not because it wasn't profitable or because it was detrimental to their image. Rather, it wasn't geared to the right demographic. See #1 above.

#3 is my poor attempt at humor, which by the looks of things, isn't striking a note with people or is going right above their heads. I promise, I won't quit my day job.

In general, I'm actually excited for certain aspects of DS, and think the overall project will be a success. I am not excited for the high-end "Mall of America" aspect, as IMHO, this dilutes the brand and lessens the "Disney experience".

I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that I ever suggested that Disney "ought to cater to the Millennials with nothing but $5 quick service". I'm simply pointing out a shift (see #1 above) that is undeniable across property. It would, however, be nice to see a restaurant option (or two) with a decent ~$30 steak that fits in somewhere between the $15 burgers at Rainforest and the $48 New York Strip at the Boathouse, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking... (unless I've missed an announcement somewhere along the way)...

Lots of millennial talk... well, I am a millennial albeit on the higher end. We are swiftly becoming the middle aged... sorry Disney but you lost the valuable 20s I had where PI might have been interesting, but sorry its not and you're right it never was. There has been too much GOOD beer and GOOD food at lower prices for those of my ilk to be interested in clubs. The only kids I knew that used them were ones who wanted THAT which only kept those like me further away. Much more fun for us to go out and have some pitchers of craft beer with friends and not be hit on while listening to crappy music instead of friends. I'd bet my money on the rise of dating via the internet killing what little clubs still had to offer. $20 covers for what? You can see a good band a few bucks more. $10 apiece for really bad drinks? Pass, I'd rather pay the $8.50 for a good beer at a sport event which is plenty high. It was never that we can't afford it (look at all the gadgets we buy... who is supporting all these niche restaurants and high end stores in other cities? Its not ALL the boomers...) but just we have no use for it anymore. Its dead like VHS and DVDs and good riddance.

We eat enough $5 QS at home, who says we need to spend it when we are on vacation? Live a little... like you said, the ones of us that can go to Disney can splurge while we are there. If that means 12 bucks on a fancy tiki drink in a place like Traders Sam's we will be lining up to the dock to get in. Its kitchy, its fun, and its certainly not day to day or drab and cheerless. The Indiana bar they're actually putting there? BRILLIANT. Pull on us children of the 80s heart strings, the nostalgia is strong with us. An apple store so I can replace the buds I just broke on my way here? I can replace my forgotten power cable and that phone that got trashed on splash can be replaced under warranty ON PROPERTY now? YES! I think its a good move - everyone knows pockets are deeper when in vacation mode.

Edited to add: since we are a couple of the lucky ones (and we know it) its worth it given the last couple comments to admit that Disney is NOT getting the money they could from us. The way things are they'll get a weekend here and there at DLR and a week every couple or few years at Florida until we are well and truly bored but they are only getting less than 50% of our vacation time and dollars at the parks - a little better currently if you take DCL into account but since we are trying another line next year... that may change too. We'll see.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There's piles of evidence to support that WDW is investing enough to keep the company/balance sheet strong. The company is not loosing money, and in fact is growing nicely. The company is clearly investing enough to keep it strong for the short term.

I'm with alot of what you said...

But this blip....

How does stock growth help park growth?

The answer is it doesn't...more like it hurts it...

Unless the finances aren't stable...which there is no doubt of now...unlike when Eisner took over and had to take some risks to blow up the compound...

Now they won't bet with their own house money...that's gutless.

 

[DDLand]

I'm with alot of what you said...

But this blip....

How does stock growth help park growth?

The answer is it doesn't...more like it hurts it...

Unless the finances aren't stable...which there is no doubt of now...unlike when Eisner took over and had to take some risks to blow up the compound...

Now they won't bet with their own house money...that's gutless.

They're basically coasting. Investing enough to get by. That's good because we're at least making sure WDW is up to a certain level of quality. It's not an early 2000s on our hands. It's also bad though, because WDW is not reaching its full potential. New attractions and options that would make a consumer extremely pleased aren't being built, and so WDC isn't getting that $. It's as simple as that.

So this do enough to get by approach is better than say the cut cut cut mantra, but stupid long term.

 

[Marshypooh]

At least in my city night clubs aren't very popular, it's all about farm to fork and micro brews. That is, in my opinion, what is popular with the current 20's, 30's, and even some 40's age group. I believe Disney Springs is showing that shift in preferred venue.

S

Same here where I live in North Carolina. Lots of people, of all ages, hanging around cafes and coffee houses, too.

 

[skier_pete]

IMO, this all circles back to cost, and I believe that DS will be even more cost-prohibitive for the average Millennial to "mingle" and drink/eat socially than was PI. Again, to my previous post, I really don't believe that TWDC cares that they're edging out this particular demographic. They're a bit more concerned with selling bungalows to the Louis Vuitton crowd to care.

Pleasure Island was never affordable though. In it's heyday it had a $20 cover charge and drinks were probably $6-8 back in the nineties. I think the only young people that really hung out there were CMs that got in for free. That's why most of the clubs had a very retro feel, they weren't necessarily appealing to 18-22 year olds, but more 20-30 year olds that had some money but no kids yet.

The fact is you are correct in your presumption that Disney doesn't really worry about the young people (again the 18-30 group). As I've said in many threads, it's why they don't have true thrill rides unlike Universal. Disney caters to parents/grandparents, because they are the ones with the cash. Sure it appeals to the little ones, but little ones don't pay the bills.

Again, a shopping district was never a big draw to our family. My wife will go to a degree, and she'll spend a bit there, but not a ton. I want nothing to do with it. As for high-end restaurants, not a draw either. As I said, what I want most is evening entertainment that I can enjoy once my daughter is old enough that we can leave her alone. And I'm not talking about a bar where I can go get a $12 drink, unless the theming is awesome. (Trader Sam's might be this. Jock's Hanger Bar intrigues me, but even that seems to me more a "one and done".) I've never much cared about places like Wolfgang Puck's or Fultons or Paradiso 37. I don't go to Disney to just eat in a plain old restaurant or sit in a plain old bar. But as I said, Disney doesn't seem to think what I personally am interested in has any merit. And that's fine. They set it up the way they did, and for that they don't get my money. (Or at least MORE of my money.) Instead, we stayed at SSR last year so that we were close to DTD - so we could take the bus to the Boardwalk and go to Jellyrolls'. We didn't enter DTD once in 5 days. If PI were still there, or SOME form of nighttime entertainment besides a bowling alley and bars, we would've spent money there. But we didn't.

 

[Redcon1]

Definitely some merit to that. However, for previous generations, costs for things like cars, gasoline, insurance and a night out on the town were significantly cheaper (even in adjusted inflationary dollars). Also, previous generations weren't paying ~$100/month for cell phone service and another ~$150/month for cable and internet service, plus X-box subscriptions, iTunes, etc. While it might be easier to be "social" without going out today, there's certainly a cost associated with the privilege, and as a result, Millennials have other financial obligations that make going out prohibitive that didn't exist for previous generations. Coming from a Millennial, I'd much rather hang out at PI than sit in my room on Facebook "being social".

IMO, this all circles back to cost, and I believe that DS will be even more cost-prohibitive for the average Millennial to "mingle" and drink/eat socially than was PI. Again, to my previous post, I really don't believe that TWDC cares that they're edging out this particular demographic. They're a bit more concerned with selling bungalows to the Louis Vuitton crowd to care.

Andrew, it's not just Millennials for which Disney is becoming cost-prohibitive. We in the middle-class families with kids can't justify the prices Disney charges at some of their shops and restaurants. $48 for a steak? How much better really is that piece of meat over a $24 one? Is it twice as good? The value we used to get from Disney always outweighed the cost of somewhat over-priced entertainment and merchandise, but at least then, it didn't seem like there was such as big of a discrepancy between the value and cost.

We'll still go, but probably won't partake of most of DS offerings and will stick to those places that we know we'll get more value from as we have in the past.

 

[Andrew015]

Andrew, it's not just Millennials for which Disney is becoming cost-prohibitive. We in the middle-class families with kids can't justify the prices Disney charges at some of their shops and restaurants. $48 for a steak? How much better really is that piece of meat over a $24 one? Is it twice as good? The value we used to get from Disney always outweighed the cost of somewhat over-priced entertainment and merchandise, but at least then, it didn't seem like there was such as big of a discrepancy between the value and cost.

We'll still go, but probably won't partake of most of DS offerings and will stick to those places that we know we'll get more value from as we have in the past.

Redcon - I only focused my response on Millennials because that was the focus of the article in the initial post. I absolutely, 100% agree with you - it's not just the Millennials that are feeling the pinch.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

My takeaway from the article and ensuing conversation thus far has been this:

• Millennials could no longer afford the night club scene, so demand began to wane.
• As a result, TWDC pulled the rip cord on PI.

In response, TWDC builds a mega shopping/drinking/dining complex that is even higher in price. A few conclusions can be drawn:

1. TWDC isn't concerned about the Millennials, and rather, is targeting the more affluent demographics (an eerily similar theme from another thread in which we went round' & round'...).
2. TWDC just wanted out of the "nightclub scene".
3. The article is full of it. The ~43 million (50%, by the way) of Millennials that are living out of their parents' basements should have plenty of money saved to spend clubbin' at DS.

IMO, #1 makes the most sense. We're seeing evidence of this trend everywhere else around property. This fits in well with that theme.

#2 has some merit, but I think it's a weaker argument. I think they wanted "out" of the club scene - not because it wasn't profitable or because it was detrimental to their image. Rather, it wasn't geared to the right demographic. See #1 above.

#3 is my poor attempt at humor, which by the looks of things, isn't striking a note with people or is going right above their heads. I promise, I won't quit my day job.

In general, I'm actually excited for certain aspects of DS, and think the overall project will be a success. I am not excited for the high-end "Mall of America" aspect, as IMHO, this dilutes the brand and lessens the "Disney experience".

I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that I ever suggested that Disney "ought to cater to the Millennials with nothing but $5 quick service". I'm simply pointing out a shift (see #1 above) that is undeniable across property. It would, however, be nice to see a restaurant option (or two) with a decent ~$30 steak that fits in somewhere between the $15 burgers at Rainforest and the $48 New York Strip at the Boathouse, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking... (unless I've missed an announcement somewhere along the way)...

I was just asking what they should have done with DTD's remodel, if you had an opinion on that.

The $5 food court would be targeting the M's. Which I have no problem with them doing-just not something we would visit.

If M's cant afford a $20 cover and $10 drink-they can't afford a $30 steak either-of which many are available currently at DTD.

 

[HeatherL1985]

Here's my take...

If Disney doesn't expand to increase supply, profit is all about finding that sweet spot of pricing and demand. Too high of a price, demand falls and you lose potential profits overall. Too low of a price and you lost potential profits per ticket.

Even though many believe WDW to be too expensive I think it might, actually, be too affordable. The main complaints I hear deal with overcrowding issues: full busses, full pools, no discounts, booked dining, FP+, rude guests, closures for refurb, over-used dilapidated structures, etc. When you couple that with how willing people seem to pay for "premium" services (dessert parties, MNSSHP, MVMCP, non-character Fantasmic dining packages, etc) it would seem that people are more than willing to pay extra to have a less crowded, and perhaps better, experience. Could it be that instead of focusing on increasing supply, they are repositioning the company to target an upper class clientele? While the strategy may not be popular, it could maintain or increase park profits while reducing strain on the current infrastructure.

If true, it would explain why they seem to nix offerings for cash-strapped millennials.

 

[Andrew015]

I was just asking what they should have done with DTD's remodel, if you had an opinion on that.

I do have an opinion. Back in the "Shopping Village" days, many of the stores were completely unique, one-off places filled with items that you just couldn't get anywhere else. Today, shopping at Disney essentially equates to the same made-in-China "junk" from store to store. In addition to that, DS is adding a full-blown shopping mall component. My theory there is to keep guests from wandering off property to places like Church St. Station or other local outlets. Makes sense from a business perspective, but truly waters down the overall shopping experience for the consumer. Gone are the days of the "unique". Here to stay is mass-retail that resembles the local malls in my hometown.

Another prime example of the focus being solely on the stock price at the expense of watering down the brand.

 

[sperkins921]

I would also wish they would consider a "Comedy Warehouse" type place. They could easily do something similar to the original where you pay a $10 cover for a say 60 minute show, and then sell drinks during the show. They could run 4-5 shows a night, advertise the earlier ones as more family oriented and later ones as "18 and up" though still keep them "Disneyfied". Unfortunately it doesn't seem that entertainment is the way they want to go.

As an older millenial (Gen X, though I don't remember if I'm on the lower end or older end) I would say that this would appeal to many of us. In my area, you have to drive to the big city (ie NYC or Boston) to find a comedy club, and as I don't go to either (well, have never been to NYC, little interest) I can't even say they're abundant even there. But when we're on vacations where this is an option, I notice that the places are always packed. Go on a cruise, go to the adult comedy show- literally every seat taken- and by all ages. I think it would work. After all, the Adventurer's Club was the most popular venue at PI...

I'm pretty much the age range that would have been going to nightclubs. I'm 22, however I think the issue is less about money for nights out in the UK, in Glasgow I can get £1 vodkas. I think the issue is more it's a bit boring now. I've been going into clubs since I was 16/17. Every night is pretty much the same. Whilst I was at Uni I was out at clubs once a week. However now that I'm working full time I spend my free time doing much more exciting things because I have more money. More money to do expensive things than going out to the dancing. Also when you're on holiday you usually have more money to spend, or rather you're less concerned about what you spend as you're on holiday. I think we're all looking far to into it. Disney just decided to go in a different direction and one they could get more money from as people are more inclined to spend more money on fancy dinners and shopping when on holiday.

Even though you're much younger than me, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. When I was 21-25 I did all the clubbing I'll ever want to do. It's over done and boring. I'd rather find my 'adventure' somehow else.

Lots of millennial talk... well, I am a millennial albeit on the higher end. We are swiftly becoming the middle aged... sorry Disney but you lost the valuable 20s I had where PI might have been interesting, but sorry its not and you're right it never was. There has been too much GOOD beer and GOOD food at lower prices for those of my ilk to be interested in clubs. The only kids I knew that used them were ones who wanted THAT which only kept those like me further away. Much more fun for us to go out and have some pitchers of craft beer with friends and not be hit on while listening to crappy music instead of friends. I'd bet my money on the rise of dating via the internet killing what little clubs still had to offer. $20 covers for what? You can see a good band a few bucks more. $10 apiece for really bad drinks? Pass, I'd rather pay the $8.50 for a good beer at a sport event which is plenty high. It was never that we can't afford it (look at all the gadgets we buy... who is supporting all these niche restaurants and high end stores in other cities? Its not ALL the boomers...) but just we have no use for it anymore. Its dead like VHS and DVDs and good riddance.

We eat enough $5 QS at home, who says we need to spend it when we are on vacation? Live a little... like you said, the ones of us that can go to Disney can splurge while we are there. If that means 12 bucks on a fancy tiki drink in a place like Traders Sam's we will be lining up to the dock to get in. Its kitchy, its fun, and its certainly not day to day or drab and cheerless. The Indiana bar they're actually putting there? BRILLIANT. Pull on us children of the 80s heart strings, the nostalgia is strong with us. An apple store so I can replace the buds I just broke on my way here? I can replace my forgotten power cable and that phone that got trashed on splash can be replaced under warranty ON PROPERTY now? YES! I think its a good move - everyone knows pockets are deeper when in vacation mode.

Edited to add: since we are a couple of the lucky ones (and we know it) its worth it given the last couple comments to admit that Disney is NOT getting the money they could from us. The way things are they'll get a weekend here and there at DLR and a week every couple or few years at Florida until we are well and truly bored but they are only getting less than 50% of our vacation time and dollars at the parks - a little better currently if you take DCL into account but since we are trying another line next year... that may change too. We'll see.

^^^^THIS^^^^

Disney gets less than 25% of my vacation time or money.

The rest? I can't say it better than you already did.

Pleasure Island was never affordable though. In it's heyday it had a $20 cover charge and drinks were probably $6-8 back in the nineties. I think the only young people that really hung out there were CMs that got in for free. That's why most of the clubs had a very retro feel, they weren't necessarily appealing to 18-22 year olds, but more 20-30 year olds that had some money but no kids yet.

The fact is you are correct in your presumption that Disney doesn't really worry about the young people (again the 18-30 group). As I've said in many threads, it's why they don't have true thrill rides unlike Universal. Disney caters to parents/grandparents, because they are the ones with the cash. Sure it appeals to the little ones, but little ones don't pay the bills.

Again, a shopping district was never a big draw to our family. My wife will go to a degree, and she'll spend a bit there, but not a ton. I want nothing to do with it. As for high-end restaurants, not a draw either. As I said, what I want most is evening entertainment that I can enjoy once my daughter is old enough that we can leave her alone. And I'm not talking about a bar where I can go get a $12 drink, unless the theming is awesome. (Trader Sam's might be this. Jock's Hanger Bar intrigues me, but even that seems to me more a "one and done".) I've never much cared about places like Wolfgang Puck's or Fultons or Paradiso 37. I don't go to Disney to just eat in a plain old restaurant or sit in a plain old bar. But as I said, Disney doesn't seem to think what I personally am interested in has any merit. And that's fine. They set it up the way they did, and for that they don't get my money. (Or at least MORE of my money.) Instead, we stayed at SSR last year so that we were close to DTD - so we could take the bus to the Boardwalk and go to Jellyrolls'. We didn't enter DTD once in 5 days. If PI were still there, or SOME form of nighttime entertainment besides a bowling alley and bars, we would've spent money there. But we didn't.

Perhaps I've always been privileged (NOT!) but I literally spent my 21st birthday at PI. The $20 cover charge was not really a big deal to us, I remember just thinking of it as a ticket like you'd need to any other 'park' at the World. I turned 21 in 1999. I remember drinks being literally the same price at PI as they were at the clubs and bars back home- but much much weaker IMHO. Adventurer's Club aside, to get a buzz like at home cost way more. But we didn't go to PI for the buzz, we went for the novelty. Loved the rotating dance floor at Mannequins, loved the retro feel at 8 Trax, loved the Comedy Warehouse and Adventurer's club. Had my first Jello shot out of a test tube being sold at PI.

As a DINK, I think it's interesting that people think that a) Disney doesn't worry about appealing to the young 18-30 crowd. It was not so long ago that I was 30, and during that time, I felt that Disney was VERY interested in marketing to people like me: young, on the path to success, no kids or mortgage yet. IE, get em hooked early. and that b) people don't want a $48 steak on vacation unless they're the jet set crowd.

Personally, my 'real life' at home is so busy that I literally can count on one hand the amount of times that I go bowling, or out to eat at the upscale burger joints or what not. So for me? I do it at Disney. There have been times that I've waited to see a movie because I was going to FL soon and wanted that AMC experience. It's a treat for DH and I to sit and have those kinds of experiences and it's honestly made us savor vacation more. Yes, I get the 'you can see a movie at home'....unless of course, your work life keeps that from happening. So for me, I like to splurge on vacation on all counts. Eat, drink, bowl, golf, whatever the way I never get to at home.

I would have to say, if PI in it's past form existed today, I still think it'd be a bust. Not because of the cost- but because the world has moved on. The traditional club and bar scene seems to be 'played out' if you will most everywhere. Now, if it had a comedy club, maybe a piano bar, etc, yes, I think they'd draw crowds. But a strip of bars? Not sure most people care to do that anymore.

 

[tmh43]

I think it has to do with the fact that nightclubs target a very specific age group- whereas an expensive restaurant can appeal to anyone who can afford it.

I also remember when I was a kid and we were on vacation, someone stayed with us while the parents went out (pretty sure to Pleasure Island). This doesn't even appeal to a lot of us with young kids now. It could be that we can't afford to spend the extra money on ourselves, or an extra person to watch the kids, but I think we just enjoy the kids stuff more! That and craft beers. We love craft beers.

 

[Aurora0427]

Millenials are rapidly being exposed as the poster children of what exactly a post middle class world is going to look like.

Just two weeks back...it was reported that 42 million millenials live at home in the US...

My question is: how'd the other 341 find the cash to get their own party pad?!?

It doesn't stop there... Facebook, apple, google, research groups have all done studies/tracking that the comparative "disgruntlement" shown on social media by millenials is something like 3x Any other demographic.

That's staggering...

What am i saying? Is that the y's don't have the CASH to go clubbin...and so the clubs will die quickly.

Disney may have been prescient on PI.

This new generations bought into a model that doesn't work for them...like it did the boomers and the Xers...

And that was: go to college, party a little, get good job, party some more, settle down with cute wife or stud muffin...have kids...pay for everything...buy DVC, pay for grandkids APs and mouse ears...

Notice "live with parents to 44 with $300,000 psychology degree from Syracuse" isn't in the lifeplan.

Quite interesting how social evolution doesn't always invoke the needle pointing up, huh?

Great post/thread/read...thank you!

(No disrespect for Syracuse...by the way )

Omg. This is so true. My cousin is 24. Twenty four. He never finished his $300,000 degree and lives at home. He wants his first job to be one that pays him enough to get a Range Rover. Granted his two siblings have worked incredibly hard, so definitely not all millennials have this attitude and I bet most work hard. I think your post is accurate for a portion of the millennial population. And it made me giggle.

 

[mcd2745]

I would have to say, if PI in it's past form existed today, I still think it'd be a bust. Not because of the cost- but because the world has moved on. The traditional club and bar scene seems to be 'played out' if you will most everywhere. Now, if it had a comedy club, maybe a piano bar, etc, yes, I think they'd draw crowds. But a strip of bars? Not sure most people care to do that anymore.

I'm not so sure. I think if it still existed, most importantly, as a separate admission area (with some kind of add-on to your MYW tickets available), it could definitely still work. I think the venues would have needed to have been changed up though. I would leave AC and CW alone (those were unique enough). However, you didn't need multiple dance clubs (8Traxx/Mannequins/Motion/BET). Could have consolidated them into one or two and maybe alternate/rotate the different themes that the old clubs had. Same thing for the rock club and jazz club. Then convert some of the buildings into other places like a a craft brewery-type place, a sports bar, a place like the Indiana Jones hangar bar they're opening now etc. Like anything else, it could have survived (even thrived) as long as it properly evolved as necessary.

 

[Bolt4Life17]

Interesting piece on "the death of the nightclub" from the UK newspaper The Guardian. Basic point of article is that millennials are much less interested spending their nights in dark, loud smoky clubs than their predecessors. Yes, the examples in the article are from Britain, but I can see the same things it describes also happening here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-no-longer-going-to-night-clubs-10449036.html

Maybe in the UK. Not here, at least in San Diego.

Bars and nightclubs are absolutely popping every night.

 

[Bolt4Life17]

Millenials are rapidly being exposed as the poster children of what exactly a post middle class world is going to look like.

Just two weeks back...it was reported that 42 million millenials live at home in the US...

My question is: how'd the other 341 find the cash to get their own party pad?!?

It doesn't stop there... Facebook, apple, google, research groups have all done studies/tracking that the comparative "disgruntlement" shown on social media by millenials is something like 3x Any other demographic.

That's staggering...

What am i saying? Is that the y's don't have the CASH to go clubbin...and so the clubs will die quickly.

Disney may have been prescient on PI.

This new generations bought into a model that doesn't work for them...like it did the boomers and the Xers...

And that was: go to college, party a little, get good job, party some more, settle down with cute wife or stud muffin...have kids...pay for everything...buy DVC, pay for grandkids APs and mouse ears...

Notice "live with parents to 44 with $300,000 psychology degree from Syracuse" isn't in the lifeplan.

Quite interesting how social evolution doesn't always invoke the needle pointing up, huh?

Great post/thread/read...thank you!

(No disrespect for Syracuse...by the way )

I believe college is the biggest scam going for my age group. I'm 25 and only one of my friends/aquantences from highschool is doing the career he went to college for. Guess what though, they all have close to 100k in debt.

I never went to college yet I make $91,000 a year right now and will soon make over 100k in a few years. My job put me through 6 months of learning the profession, then 6 months of active training in the profession. By the way, before I got into my career, I never had it targeted. I just didn't believe college was worth it since most the time all you get is debt and a job you never went to college for.

As for the nightclubs, I enjoyed it when I was a fresh 21 year old. Now I enjoy going to a bar that has the option for dancing, but also other things like pool. I would like if Disney had an on-property option of a nightclub. The Atlantic Dance Hall doesn't count. My girl still likes dancing and I wouldn't mind finishing off a night dancing with her. However, I still prefer the piano singer at PO:FQ to wind down to.

Here in San Diego, the nightlife scene is happening every night for 21-30 year Olds. So I can't say millennials are done with night clubbing because that would be false here.





On a side note. If you are ever visiting SD, come to the Shout House in the Gaslamp Quarter (nightlife area). Best dueling piano place ice ever been to. Packed every night. They also add in drums and electric guitar at times. They can play almost every song. Very interactive. Always a huge age range. We sometimes go with my parents who are in their mid 50s. Sometimes go with our friends our age.