May 2022 Direct Sales drop

[Royal Consort]

but I think Riviera owners have tended towards head-in-the-sand.

I still don't know how much is related to economic conditions vs restrictions vs resort itself. There's no way of knowing without getting our grubby hands on Disney data. I would accept your statement if RVA is performing abysmally. I don't think it is, but it isnt a runaway success either from the DVC perspective. It seems to be doing better on cash!

 

[Sandisw]

Timeshares are a volume game. There's no room for niche/boutique when you're trying to move millions of points. You need mass appeal.

I love Aulani more than just about any place on Earth. But I also acknowledge that it was a mistake for them to build so much Hawaii inventory when their client base is primarily made up of East Coast parents of small children who won't even make the 5 hour flight to Los Angeles, let alone the 11 hour flight to Honolulu. I understand the impulse to defend your favorites, but I think Riviera owners have tended towards head-in-the-sand.

We know you hate RIV..which you are allowed to do, but let’s be fair with the facts.

Is it selling? Yes. Is it breaking sales records? Nope

Are rooms being booked by DVC owners on a regular basis? Yup, so obviously people like it enough to book the rooms.

Are cash guests staying there ? Yes.

Are current resale contracts selling for more than many thought they ever would? Yup.

Will they remain that high long term? Probably not

Do those that bought RIV care? Probably not.

Honestly, I think those who really do not like the resort seem to have a harder time accepting that it’s a beautiful and popular resort, holding its own given its the first DVC resort with restrictions.

 

[SleeplessInTO]

We know you hate RIV..which you are allowed to do, but let’s be fair with the facts.

Is it selling? Yes. Is it breaking sales records? Nope

Are rooms being booked by DVC owners on a regular basis? Yup, so obviously people like it enough to book the rooms.

Are cash guests staying there ? Yes.

Are current resale contracts selling for more than many thought they ever would? Yup.

Will they remain that high long term? Probably not

Do those that bought RIV care? Probably not.

Honestly, I think those who really do not like the resort seem to have a harder time accepting that it’s a beautiful and popular resort, holding its own given its the first DVC resort with restrictions.

I don’t dislike Riviera. I dislike the resale restrictions. When people talk about how great Riviera is, and how happy they were to buy points (either direct or resale), it can come off like they’re defending the restrictions. Hard to separate the two.

Without the restrictions I imagine Riviera would not be so polarizing. Personally it would end up being like Boulder Ridge to me. I know it’s there and I’m sure I’ll try it someday, but I’m not in a rush and I’d never comment on the resort either way. (But Disney if you’re reading this, please get moving with the refurb there!! Those poor owners.)

 

[DVCsloth]

Timeshares are a volume game. There's no room for niche/boutique when you're trying to move millions of points. You need mass appeal.

I love Aulani more than just about any place on Earth. But I also acknowledge that it was a mistake for them to build so much Hawaii inventory when their client base is primarily made up of East Coast parents of small children who won't even make the 5 hour flight to Los Angeles, let alone the 11 hour flight to Honolulu. I understand the impulse to defend your favorites, but I think Riviera owners have tended towards head-in-the-sand.

Resale restrictions and pandemic are what stalled Riviera. Disney built an awesome resort IMO the location is almost as good as BCV and BWV. Skyliner is what really pushes it over the top, awesome way to travel to and from the parks. Rooms are huge, resort is beautiful.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t dislike Riviera. I dislike the resale restrictions. When people talk about how great Riviera is, and how happy they were to buy points (either direct or resale), it can come off like they’re defending the restrictions. Hard to separate the two.

Without the restrictions I imagine Riviera would not be so polarizing. Personally it would end up being like Boulder Ridge to me. I know it’s there and I’m sure I’ll try it someday, but I’m not in a rush and I’d never comment on the resort either way. (But Disney if you’re reading this, please get moving with the refurb there!! Those poor owners.)

The thing is that some of us simply don’t care about them and don’t think they are a big deal.

For us, if they are the new way forward, that works. If they eliminate them, that’s fine too.

When I was asked what I thought about restrictions a few times by CMs at the resorts , I was honest to say they are no issue for us.

Initially, I had reservations about them but once I experienced the resort, I realized that for us, they were in no way a determinant to owning there, including buying it resale as well as direct.

 

[Royal Consort]

I don’t dislike Riviera. I dislike the resale restrictions. When people talk about how great Riviera is, and how happy they were to buy points (either direct or resale), it can come off like they’re defending the restrictions. Hard to separate the two.

Without the restrictions I imagine Riviera would not be so polarizing.

Anything new at WDW appears to be polarising until it's not new. But I agree it wouldn't have the reputation it does amongst some online communities.

For a few years on these boards buyers of RVA were tentative or reluctant to discuss the purchase too much. The level of disapproval was hardly worth the effort to post about Riviera. I know I could hardly be bothered.

I am a happy RVA owner and it suits us really nicely. I'd buy it again, no regrets. But I don't love the resale restrictions. Can I control them? Nope. Do I want to stay at RVA? Yep. So I'm not buying a property I don't want because they have them. Similarly, the restrictions won't be going anywhere so there are more resorts down the line that will have them. In 10 years the Disboards will have habituated to them, like we do most things, and it will be 'normal'.

As an aside, I had the opportunity to purchase CCV but didn't because we stay in studios and the CCV studios issue is more of a concern with organic restrictions. We have the ability to like a resort but also dislike restrictions simultaneously if you choose.

 

[DVCsloth]

The thing is that some of us simply don’t care about them and don’t think they are a big deal.

For us, if they are the new way forward, that works. If they eliminate them, that’s fine too.

When I was asked what I thought about restrictions a few times by CMs at the resorts , I was honest to say they are no issue for us.

Initially, I had reservations about them but once I experienced the resort, I realized that for us, they were in no way a determinant to owning there, including buying it resale as well as direct.

Same here, we initially did not purchase because of the restrictions. We were able to stay at riviera 2 separate trips SV Studio and SV 1br love it and love the park access. Also own VGF and CCV so our recent Riviera add on get s us close to Epcot and HS. Love the resort and love the Skyliner! Don't really care about the restrictions because I don't have any restrictions.

 

[Nabas]

I don't like VGF either, so you're asking the wrong person, but if they were selling Poly 2, VGF2, and Riviera side by side, I wouldn't be shocked to see sales coming in at something like 60%, 25%, 15%.

Because you think people like the Poly that much or what?

Some numbers to consider.

For the first 12 full months of direct sales:

• 1,372,787 RIV points were sold,
• 1,310,116 VGF points were sold,
• 953,152 PVB points were sold.

P.S. At the time, I thought PVB was going to outsell everything. Wow, was I off.

 

[jbreen2010]

I am confused how DVC though is going to let riviera resale contracts hit ROFR at $118 (saw earlier on in this thread) but are gobbling up SSR at $125 a point. Something strange is going on there. Riviera is beautiful, but I only own 3 resale contracts and will never be able to stay there because of it. Does it make me hate riviera - no. It just adds an unnecessary complexity with DVC points in general. I wonder if VGF2 selling many more points will have DVD evaluate resale restrictions. Kind of annoying if you got into DVC a few years ago at RIV and had to sell today - def taking a bit of a loss there.

 

[Nabas]

I think the Poly Tower announcement probably stopped some current members purchasing RIV. I’ve read lots of comments saying they would purchase poly2 regardless of the restrictions, and could be waiting. I know I am.

I agree that some RIV sales probably were impacted by the Poly Tower announcement. But I suspect most current members would have jumped on RIV by now, if they really wanted to buy there.

 

[Sandisw]

I am confused how DVC though is going to let riviera resale contracts hit ROFR at $118 (saw earlier on in this thread) but are gobbling up SSR at $125 a point. Something strange is going on there. Riviera is beautiful, but I only own 3 resale contracts and will never be able to stay there because of it. Does it make me hate riviera - no. It just adds an unnecessary complexity with DVC points in general. I wonder if VGF2 selling many more points will have DVD evaluate resale restrictions. Kind of annoying if you got into DVC a few years ago at RIV and had to sell today - def taking a bit of a loss there.

DVD has never taken back resorts in active sales as they have plenty of points to sell.

Even if they didn’t want to let it go, they do and again, RIV direct offers a lot more than RIV resale so for now, they probably figure they can deal with the ones that get through.

And, there are still RIV contracts that sold for a better price so not everyone took a huge hit. I myself paid $152 last summer.

 

[DVCsloth]

I am confused how DVC though is going to let riviera resale contracts hit ROFR at $118 (saw earlier on in this thread) but are gobbling up SSR at $125 a point. Something strange is going on there. Riviera is beautiful, but I only own 3 resale contracts and will never be able to stay there because of it. Does it make me hate riviera - no. It just adds an unnecessary complexity with DVC points in general. I wonder if VGF2 selling many more points will have DVD evaluate resale restrictions. Kind of annoying if you got into DVC a few years ago at RIV and had to sell today - def taking a bit of a loss there.

May be better off just renting out Riviera points instead of selling and give it a few years. Hopefully the economy will come back and they could possibly sell then or may be able to keep it after a few years.

 

[Nabas]

You forgot to mention that this "beverage cooler" is a joke that can't even keep a beer at the proper temperature...

My #1 complaint about the VGF2 beverage cooler!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Resale restrictions and pandemic are what stalled Riviera. Disney built an awesome resort IMO the location is almost as good as BCV and BWV. Skyliner is what really pushes it over the top, awesome way to travel to and from the parks. Rooms are huge, resort is beautiful.

I am a huge Skyliner evangelist, so I need no convincing on that point. Better than the monorail for my money.

My problem with Riviera is not that it's BAD, it's that it's DULL. It's a hotel-themed-hotel. Anywhere else in the world, sure, it's a great resort. It's arguably the nicest resort on property. But within a themed entertainment environment, I'd rather stay at Port Orleans. It's not about the niceness, it's about the special-ness.

 

[DVCsloth]

I am a huge Skyliner evangelist, so I need no convincing on that point. Better than the monorail for my money.

My problem with Riviera is not that it's BAD, it's that it's DULL. It's a hotel-themed-hotel. Anywhere else in the world, sure, it's a great resort. It's arguably the nicest resort on property. But within a themed entertainment environment, I'd rather stay at Port Orleans. It's not about the niceness, it's about the special-ness.

Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. When I drive up to the Riviera, I see it and I'm blown away! Skyliner is awesome but it doesn't go to MK monorail does. I don't really care about theming; I look at the attention to detail that was invested in that resort and I'm thoroughly impressed. Very well thought out resort, first class all the way. Awesome access to Epcot and good access to HS. Busses for the most part run like clockwork with separate bus stops all in the same area. Point chart is high so even more reason to own there because if you want SV you will need to have it as a home resort.

 

[savvy101787]

Some numbers to consider.

For the first 12 full months of direct sales:

• 1,372,787 RIV points were sold,
• 1,310,116 VGF points were sold,
• 953,152 PVB points were sold.

P.S. At the time, I thought PVB was going to outsell everything. Wow, was I off.

This is fascinating! Do you know what those equate to in terms of % of available points at each resort?

 

[Nabas]

This is fascinating! Do you know what those equate to in terms of % of available points at each resort?

Here's those numbers (direct sales for the first 12 full months; total points; percentage sold):

• RIV: 1,372,787; 6,739,966; 20.4%.
• VGF: 1,310,116; 2,520,800; 52.0%.
• PVB: 953,152; 4,069,020; 23.4%.

 

[npatellye]

Here's those numbers (direct sales for the first 12 full months; total points; percentage sold):

• RIV: 1,372,787; 6,739,966; 20.4%.
• VGF: 1,310,116; 2,520,800; 52.0%.
• PVB: 953,152; 4,069,020; 23.4%.

Do you know if the RIV number is the first 12 months total including the shutdown or sales for the first 12 months that WDW was fully open?

I am just asking because I’m curious to know the context of the timeline.

 

[Sandisw]

Do you know if the RIV number is the first 12 months total including the shutdown or sales for the first 12 months that WDW was fully open?

I am just asking because I’m curious to know the context of the timeline.

The shut down happened just after the first 12 months…so those represent sales before the impact of the pandemic.

 

[npatellye]

The shut down happened just after the first 12 months…so those represent sales before the impact of the pandemic.

Thanks, Sandi!

So that brings up my next question (edit: it brings up 3 questions): when did each resort open sales for existing members and sales for the general public? How does that relate to the 12 months of sales? And when did each resort open in relation to the first 12 months of sales?

I don’t know these details but I know many people here do!