Marrieds choosing not to have kids

[aclov]

I just stumbled upon this thread, and find it a very interesting topic. I have a few comments, and a few questions. First, DH and I have 3 kids, so we obviously fall onto the parent side of this lifestyle debate. Secondly, I don't think having kids is for everyone, and for those who are confident of their decision to not have any, I think that's great...I'd never try to "sell" the idea of having children to anyone who is set in their decision.

The only thing I've noticed in this thread from the "no children" camp that I disagree with is the continued use of the argument that they don't want kids because of the bad behavior, lack of visiting when they're older, etc. A few comments about having to hear "I hate you" etc bothered me, because it doesn't have to be that way. Yes, we've all heard kids acting like that, but I wouldn't use that as a reason not to have kids. You have control over how you raise them, and while all kids misbehave, certainly not to the point that it's a reason not to have kids. Same with adult children never visiting. Not always or even usually the case, I'd say. So I just wouldn't let that factor in.

And I will apologize (I learn on these boards), because I have on occasion THOUGHT (not said, at least) the comment that a friend could not be as tired as me because she doens't have kids (that she may think she's really tired, but does't KNOW tired, lol). I was wrong to think that. Of course I don't know exactly how my friend feels. Sometimes when you have kids, and you remember how things like sleep and travel were easier before you had them, it can be easy to compare and claim the childless person doesn't understand. FOR ME, having kids is worth every bit of tiredness/difficulty, but it is more difficult than being childless, nevertheless.

My question is: for those who are childless NOT by choice (or at least were at some point), how can I, with my three young kids, help a relative who is childless and wishes for children? We see her often (at her request...she says she enjoys the kids), and I know she has some really tough days when she wants children very badly. She is resigned to the fact that she never will, and I worry my children cause her pain. Is there anything I can do to be more sensitive to it?

Also, I have several friends who don't have children yet (are married) and I don't know if they ever will. Is it inappropriate to ask them about their plans? I never thought it was, but after reading this thread, maybe? Obviously if they told me no, I never want children, I'd never ask about it again. But they are vague. Is it rude to inquire, or rude not to, lol? Thanks!

See everyone, childless and with children, at Disney!

I have to agree to what another poster said that just because you don't have children doesn't mean you don't like them. I love children and have been very close to my friends children at one time. My DH has lots of nieces and nephews that we also spoil and have spent many weekends with us. It's important to be sensitive to your friend and if you see she enjoys your children, maybe offer for all of you to go to the mall or on a date with you and your children. I held my friends son's hand at the mall while she went shopping and was able to keep him company so she didn't have to worry about him. I really enjoyed spending time with him. I would say not to ask any personal questions unless your friend brings it up. I have a friend that everytime I would talk to her she would question me about when I was going to have children, have I been trying, was I going to the doctor, was getting treatment, etc., etc. This is someone I have known for almost 20 years and I would have gladly shared with her, but by her asking me constantly I just wanted to avoid her. I have distanced myself from her because I just don't want to deal with her questions. It's hard enough dealing with infertility and than having people interrogate you about it. I also felt like she was trying to tell me her life was perfect because she had 3 kids and I didn't. Maybe I was being oversensitive, but this is how sensitive this topic is when your dealing with failed artificial inseminations, month after month of trying, praying and hoping. Your sound like a good friend and a good person for asking these types of questions, just be there for them is the best advice. If they want to confide in you, they will.

 

[kennancat]

So here's something I thought about while watching the Kathy Griffin reality show the other day (the one where she does the corporate function and has to explain to the kid afterwards that she was joking when she said she hated kids). If you had to explain to your friends or relatives' kids why you chose to be childfree, how do you do it without hurting their feelings? I operate under the assumption that most rational, intelligent adults who spent at least 3 seconds contemplating the decision to have children would at least intellectually understand why another adult might not want children, but would a child? Luckily, my friends' kids are all pretty young still so it's not an issue, but I'd hate to upset some poor kid someday.

 

[gatour]

"Also, I have several friends who don't have children yet (are married) and I don't know if they ever will. Is it inappropriate to ask them about their plans? I never thought it was, but after reading this thread, maybe? Obviously if they told me no, I never want children, I'd never ask about it again. But they are vague. Is it rude to inquire, or rude not to, lol? Thanks! "

Speaking as a couple who have decided not have children. I don't have a problem with a friend/coworker asks me about children once or twice. I just don't won't to be badgered or judged to be a "bad" person because of our decision. So your approach is acceptable

"contemplating the decision to have children would at least intellectually understand why another adult might not want children, but would a child? Luckily, my friends' kids are all pretty young still so it's not an issue, but I'd hate to upset some poor kid someday"

I haven't really thought about this, but my brother-in-law and sister-in-have young ones, I imagine if they ask I will simply say we decided not to have children. I don't think that would damage them too much.

 

[my4kids]

Guys this thread is 10 months old! Maybe the OP changed her mind and by now has a 1 month old and is mixing a bottle of formula as we speak.

 

[maddhatir]

Guys this thread is 10 months old! Maybe the OP changed her mind and by now has a 1 month old and is mixing a bottle of formula as we speak.

OP!?

its ALL ABOUT US NOW!

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Guys this thread is 10 months old! Maybe the OP changed her mind and by now has a 1 month old and is mixing a bottle of formula as we speak.

That would be pretty ironic, especially considering that the OP had lived 32 years and 7 years of marriage in harmony with her decision to be childfree.

 

[kennancat]

Do you all realize that this thread has been around so long that the OP could have conceived and given birth since it was started? She could be starting a thread on the Families Board right now that is titled " I used to think I didn't want kids but now tell me if I should buy the Peg Perego or the Maclaren stroller"

Guys this thread is 10 months old! Maybe the OP changed her mind and by now has a 1 month old and is mixing a bottle of formula as we speak.

Okay, it was funny the first time, but I'm not sure it's necessary to commemorate the thread's birthday every month

 

[maddhatir]

Okay, it was funny the first time, but I'm not sure it's necessary to commemorate the thread's birthday every month

maybe some of "them" are hoping maybe one of "us" went over to the dark side!

 

[Krissalee]

Guys this thread is 10 months old! Maybe the OP changed her mind and by now has a 1 month old and is mixing a bottle of formula as we speak.

I am the OP. Sorry, I haven't been active on this thread, but I spent the last 9 months pregnant, busy going to Lamaze classes, pre-natal yoga, and parenting classes, then had an awful sreaming labor, and the last month I have been up to my elbows in diapers and formula! Yeesh, I've been busy!

No, actually I am still blissfully child free. I have been reading all the posts, and love a lot of the arguments everyone has made, and am glad that there is a network of those out there that are supportive. I am not one for debates (and surprising there have been very few heated ones), so I have been happy to sit back and just read, absorb all the input.

Some of the pressure has been lifted off of me, as now my family is being innundated with babies. My cousin's wife had their first in May, another cousin had her first in April, my sister is due with her first in August, and another cousin with her first in October. Now there are enough babies in the family, and around me to keep everyone quiet. To be honest, I think that is enough kids in a short enough period of time to keep everyone busy and minding their own business. My sister was the inspiration for the first paragraph - she has been keeping herself so busy with baby preparations, that, in comparison, she will probably slow down when the little guy arrives.

But for me, no. The only pitter patter of feet in my house is that of my pugs (and it is more like a clackity-clack, because I desperately need to trim their nails tonight).

Thanks for all the support, keep with the gret posts, and thanks to Hixski for the tip-off.

 

[maddhatir]

nice to meet ya!

 

[my4kids]

Okay, it was funny the first time, but I'm not sure it's necessary to commemorate the thread's birthday every month

I just can't believe it every time I see this thread hit the top of the board again....hasn't every childless by choice person reponded yet? I think it is GREAT you are all childless. It is nice to know that people know themselves that well and stick to what is right for them. Don't get heated when someone questions you about it. EVERYONE gets questioned about SOMETHING they don't like. My neice who just graduated from highschool and doesn't want to go to college (can't find a job either - but that a whole nuther story) gets questioned about if she has changed her mind and deceided to enroll in courses. She hates this so much she avoids family functions and doesn't hang around her high school friends anymore. As soon as someone gives birth to their first child - you start getting questioned if you're ready for a second. When you get preg w/4th everyone asks "are you crazy" When you give birth to your 4th everyone says "You're done now right?" I found all of these questions annoying, OK a couple were offensive to me after the 5000th time I heard them. Anyway - everyone had something they are sick of answering to. Just answer with conviction.

 

[mking624]

I just can't believe it every time I see this thread hit the top of the board again....hasn't every childless by choice person reponded yet? I think it is GREAT you are all childless. It is nice to know that people know themselves that well and stick to what is right for them. Don't get heated when someone questions you about it. EVERYONE gets questioned about SOMETHING they don't like. My neice who just graduated from highschool and doesn't want to go to college (can't find a job either - but that a whole nuther story) gets questioned about if she has changed her mind and deceided to enroll in courses. She hates this so much she avoids family functions and doesn't hang around her high school friends anymore. As soon as someone gives birth to their first child - you start getting questioned if you're ready for a second. When you get preg w/4th everyone asks "are you crazy" When you give birth to your 4th everyone says "You're done now right?" I found all of these questions annoying, OK a couple were offensive to me after the 5000th time I heard them. Anyway - everyone had something they are sick of answering to. Just answer with conviction.

Judging by your username, it's extremely clear that you will never even begin to understand what we deal with on a day to day basis. This thread has turned out to be a great support network for those who either choose to be child free or those who cannot have children (like myself). To tell us that we should no longer respond because the thread is "so old" or to minimize our feelings because we're being asked questions that you think we should just simply answer with conviction is just an insult to us. Being asked if you're going to have MORE children or if you're going to stop having children is not quite the same as being asked and looked at as if you just became the scum of the earth for not doing what a woman is "supposed" to do.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Judging by your username, it's extremely clear that you will never even begin to understand what we deal with on a day to day basis. This thread has turned out to be a great support network for those who either choose to be child free or those who cannot have children (like myself). To tell us that we should no longer respond because the thread is "so old" or to minimize our feelings because we're being asked questions that you think we should just simply answer with conviction is just an insult to us. Being asked if you're going to have MORE children or if you're going to stop having children is not quite the same as being asked and looked at as if you just became the scum of the earth for not doing what a woman is "supposed" to do.

Beautifully said.

 

[my4kids]

Judging by your username, it's extremely clear that you will never even begin to understand what we deal with on a day to day basis. This thread has turned out to be a great support network for those who either choose to be child free or those who cannot have children (like myself). To tell us that we should no longer respond because the thread is "so old" or to minimize our feelings because we're being asked questions that you think we should just simply answer with conviction is just an insult to us. Being asked if you're going to have MORE children or if you're going to stop having children is not quite the same as being asked and looked at as if you just became the scum of the earth for not doing what a woman is "supposed" to do.

Oh my - you so misread the tone of my post.
And what makes you think I got pregnant right away with my first? How do know what I went through to have my babies? OR second or third or fourth.
I was trying to offer support - and shed light that we ALL have SOME Cross to bare. Mine may not be being childless...although from most of the responses here (no I have not read them all) it seems it is not a Cross to bare for many here either because they choose to be childless. I just think you read my post in a very negative light - and it was not at all meant that way.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I just can't believe it every time I see this thread hit the top of the board again....hasn't every childless by choice person reponded yet? I think it is GREAT you are all childless. It is nice to know that people know themselves that well and stick to what is right for them. Don't get heated when someone questions you about it. EVERYONE gets questioned about SOMETHING they don't like. My neice who just graduated from highschool and doesn't want to go to college (can't find a job either - but that a whole nuther story) gets questioned about if she has changed her mind and deceided to enroll in courses. She hates this so much she avoids family functions and doesn't hang around her high school friends anymore. As soon as someone gives birth to their first child - you start getting questioned if you're ready for a second. When you get preg w/4th everyone asks "are you crazy" When you give birth to your 4th everyone says "You're done now right?" I found all of these questions annoying, OK a couple were offensive to me after the 5000th time I heard them. Anyway - everyone had something they are sick of answering to. Just answer with conviction.

I agree that probably everyone has something they're sick of being questioned about. I think they would be able to endure it a little easier if they had support, though. So if you say you understand how it feels to have your choices questioned, why would you want a supportive thread like this to stop getting new posts?

 

[mking624]

Oh my - you so misread the tone of my post.
And what makes you think I got pregnant right away with my first? How do know what I went through to have my babies? OR second or third or fourth.
I was trying to offer support - and shed light that we ALL have SOME Cross to bare. Mine may not be being childless...although from most of the responses here (no I have not read them all) it seems it is not a Cross to bare for many here either because they choose to be childless. I just think you read my post in a very negative light - and it was not at all meant that way.

I didn't say that you got pregnant right away. But clearly you DID have children...and 4 of them nonetheless. So no, you can't quite relate to those who do not have children at all...even if it took you a little bit to get pregnant. It's not the same category. I'm not trying to turn you away from this thread, but yes it is a little insulting (at least to me) for a mom of 4 to come on a thread about childless people and then make comments about how unbelievable that this thread keeps being bumped up.

I read your post the way I did because you pointed out twice from what I've seen that the thread was at least 10 months old (implying that we should no longer keep responding to it). And then you're saying that everyone deals with questions they don't like (implying we should simply deal with it). I get that everyone gets questions they don't like...but that doesn't mean we can't support each other...no matter how old the thread is.

 

[my4kids]

I agree that probably everyone has something they're sick of being questioned about. I think they would be able to endure it a little easier if they had support, though. So if you say you understand how it feels to have your choices questioned, why would you want a supportive thread like this to stop getting new posts?

It's not that I care if the thread goes on for the next 20 yrs - I was just responding to Kennancats comment as to why I popped in again....

NEVERMIND - go back to what ever you were discussing....
I didn't realize people w/kids were the enemy here or were unqualified to offer a little advise from their experience, even if it was meant to be supportive.

My sister-in-law who could not conceive had that attitude too - whenever I finally got pregnant and was over-joyed and would announce it to my family she would run from the room crying and make a big scene, and then it was like we were never allowed to happy anymore about anything because she wasn't happy.

 

[Hixski]

Getting good again.

But please tell me where this advise that is supposed to be supportive is from the folks with children. I do not seem to see it.

 

[maddhatir]

i agree--

actually maybe we should go over on the "disney for families thread" actually i look at it and say to myself....hmmm that does not concern me- so i will not even bother to post....because i am childless....and keep on moving.

this is a bit OT- but i started a thread called (very clear) STERN FAN THREAD..... and dont ya know SOMEONE HAD to make one post--- "i am not a fan" that all, but do i really care? no. SOOOOOOO? why did you even come onto the thread?!

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I don't understand why you would post that you can't believe this thread gets resurrected twice if you wanted it to keep going.

I also missed the supportiveness of your posts- though if everyone reads back there were a few supportive posts from parents as well.

None of us think people with kids are the enemy. That is why we don't go on threads about how to deal with questions about having more kids, or the stresses of having a large amount of children.

Everyone is allowed to share their opinions, but those who have been there ARE more qualified because of their experience. You do not have the experience of not wanting children- at least not that you've said to us.

I don't know what "attitude" you are referring to, but I do feel for your SIL. If you are so happy about being a parent, you can probably see why your "overjoyed" "announcement" might upset someone trying to conceive. If you can't understand why she'd run from the room crying, maybe read this thread a few pages back and read from a woman who was trying to conceive as well ("whatever we were discussing") and see why it might hurt her so much. Maybe you could have thought about her feelings a little bit, too.

I personally haven't decided if I will have children yet, I'm 26 so I have time to make the decision that is best for me, so I am on here to get opinions from all sides and I don't consider anyone an enemy, but I do think we should all try to be considerate of one another and show compassion for the difficulties of others, not tell them to deal with it or interrupt their support system.

It's not that I care if the thread goes on for the next 20 yrs - I was just responding to Kennancats comment as to why I popped in again....

NEVERMIND - go back to what ever you were discussing....
I didn't realize people w/kids were the enemy here or were unqualified to offer a little advise from their experience, even if it was meant to be supportive.

My sister-in-law who could not conceive had that attitude too - whenever I finally got pregnant and was over-joyed and would announce it to my family she would run from the room crying and make a big scene, and then it was like we were never allowed to happy anymore about anything because she wasn't happy.