LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[jade1]

For those hoping its a money thing that will bring it down, and desire to see a "direct link" to FP+ bringing in revenue, all they need to do is charge for FP+ for new attractions. US/IOA charges more in a number of ways.

They missed the boat IMO on A/E and 7DMT, but Frozen/S Wars/Pandora/TSM2/Soarin2 could all be a 4th for Deluxe, or a purchase on the APP.

Maybe we should hope it's not the money thing some are advertising-but for me I hope it is and they start charging.

 

[SmithSmith]

Imagine if ATM machines were introduced in such a way that you were strongly encouraged to reserve your withdrawals 60 days in advance ... and you couldn't always get the exact amount you wanted ... the rules for when you could reserve your cash withdrawal were arbitrary and mysterious ... and sometimes your reservations for cash withdrawals mysteriously disappeared from the system. Time Marches On? I don't think so.

For your ATM analogy to work, Disney would have to make attractions FP+ only and standby lines would cease to exist. In reality, they do exist, so this analogy makes no logical sense.

 

[AustinTink]

28 pages of back and forth on this subject and I don't think anyone has been swayed to one side or the other with these arguments and illustrations. For my family, reasoning for the dislike of FP+ is simple. We had our park strategy down to a science, pulling 6 sets of FPs in a day along with an assortment of short standby lines. Minimum of 10 rides a day for my family. Yes we love the magic, but for us it's about the rides. We could navigate the parks with little to no criss-crossing. It was a game for us to ride as many as possible in a day with little to no wait. Most days this didn't even include rope drop. FP+ has taken away our game and the thrill is gone. It's forcing us to plod along with the herd.

Now is where the replies of "no one is forcing you to go" come in. Yes, no one is forcing us to go. But, here's the thing we still love Disney. Always will. I just think this system is a mistake.

 

[Laketravis]

Stock price has never been an indicator of a company's profitability or even long-term sustainability.

Example: Amazon.




.

 

[MrInfinity]

We had our park strategy down to a science, pulling 6 sets of FPs in a day along with an assortment of short standby lines. Minimum of 10 rides a day for my family. Yes we love the magic, but for us it's about the rides. We could navigate the parks with little to no criss-crossing. It's was a game for us to ride as many as possible in a day with little to no wait. Most days this didn't even include rope drop. FP+ has taken away our game and the thrill is gone. It's forcing us to plod along with the herd.

So if it was your game to beat the system before... Why isn't it your game to beat the system now? It's just... a different game. It's like playing a game and beating level 1. Now you must beat level 2. It gets a little harder. I hate to say it but it sounds like FP+ changed the game... A game which you knew, liked, and could beat w your eyes closed. So you gave up on trying to beat it.

 

[wisblue]

28 pages of back and forth on this subject and I don't think anyone has been swayed to one side or the other with these arguments and illustrations. For my family, reasoning for the dislike of FP+ is simple. We had our park strategy down to a science, pulling 6 sets of FPs in a day along with an assortment of short standby lines. Minimum of 10 rides a day for my family. Yes we love the magic, but for us it's about the rides. We could navigate the parks with little to no criss-crossing. It's was a game for us to ride as many as possible in a day with little to no wait. Most days this didn't even include rope drop. FP+ has taken away our game and the thrill is gone. It's forcing us to plod along with the herd.

Now is where the replies of "no one is forcing you to go" come in. Yes, no one is forcing us to go. But, here's the thing we still love Disney. Always will. I just think this system is a mistake.

I'm not singling you out, but your post highlights what I think is a very important, but often overlooked, part of this discussion.

First of all, let me make it clear that I do not expect to change anyone's mind about FP+ and how it affects their WDW experience. And I am not telling you that "Nobody is forcing you to go". Most frequent WDW visitors, and I think you are saying you fall into that category, have their approaches to WDW down to a science and that often allows them to experience more than a less frequent guest. We have always been able to do a minimum of 10 or more rides a day with short waits even without getting more than 1 or 2 FPs a day just by hitting attractions when the standby waits are low. FP+ requires some changes to those approaches, and some people find them to be beneficial and others don't. How could anyone expect anything different?

But, I think you have to recognize that, because of the pure numbers, not everyone could have gotten as many valuable FP's as you did even if they had tried. The most extreme example of this is when people say that they used to get 3 or 4 or more FPs a day for things like Soarin or Test Track. As I said once in another post, it would only take about 10 % of the park's guests getting this many FPs for one ride to claim the ride's entire FP capacity for the day. I suspect that the actual percentage of guests who did this is much lower than 5%.

So, while you have clearly laid out the totally legitimate reasons why you don't like FP+, I think you are making a pretty long leap to go from there to concluding that the system is a mistake. It is very possible, and I think likely, that while the system is a clear negative for you (and others who have voiced similar concerns based on the number of rides they are able to do) that from Disney's much broader perspective, it makes perfect sense. The small minority of guests who are seeing a noticeable reduction in their experience (a minority that I think is significantly overrepresented on forums like this) is more than offset by the number of guests who are enjoying a better experience, whether they know it or not.

And the real kicker is your statement that you still love Disney and always will. That might mean that you will not completely stop going to WDW. That sentiment has been expressed by many of the most vocal opponents of FP+ and, if things work out that way, it will really be a net win for the Disney Company.

 

[JimmyV]

I think you are making a pretty long leap to go from there to concluding that the system is a mistake. It is very possible, and I think likely, that while the system is a clear negative for you (and others who have voiced similar concerns based on the number of rides they are able to do) that from Disney's much broader perspective, it makes perfect sense.

While wisblue quite clearly states that both views are worthy of consideration, much of this 28 page thread is driven by the fact that people are stuck in choosing between either the "broader perspective" or the "more narrow personal perspective". And this is why this debate can never end. I liken the whole situation to the airlines' decision to strictly enforce carry on baggage allowances while simultaneously charging never-before-seen fees for checked bags, and eliminating free food, opting instead to sell "buy on board" selections. Ask the flying public in the check-in lines at the airports if they like these changes, and ask them if the airlines' new policies and fees are a "mistake". Then ask that same question to the financial analysts, bankruptcy trustees and shareholders. There is no way that anyone wearing "financial goggles" could call these policies, fees and charges "mistakes". The have single-handedly kept many airlines up in the air. But passengers can and will cry while financial analysts sing.

Above you ask Austin Tink to look at "Disney's much broader perspective" in assessing whether the changes are beneficial or harmful, good or bad, wise or mistakes. But aren't guests entitled to look at these changes from their much more narrow perspective? It is not often human nature to look at the broader perspective when the more narrow perspective reveals a hand in your pocket or a governor on your speedometer. If people are sensing that they are getting less while paying more, I don't know that it is possible to get them to feel assuaged by the fact that their discomfort is just a single brick in the wall of "the broader perspective". What I am saying is, both sides can be right. The broader good never trumps the more narrow perspective when it comes to something as personal and selfish as vacation time. People care about what they care about. The don't whistle while in a 45 minute line for Pirates thinking that "this is all for the best." That doesn't make the "broader perspective" wrong, in any sense of the word. It just means that both the person with the broader view and the person with the myopic view can both be right. But for different reasons.

 

[BugsDaddy]

FP+ doesn't seem too popular in Austin, Texas.

 

[srauseo]

I just don't understand how people are riding fewer rides. I'm not saying anyone is lying. I just had the complete opposite experience. We went to the Magic Kingdom on Thursday, August 14 (7/10 crowd). It was EMH morning. We were there at Rope Drop. We planned to rope drop 7DMT but it was down so we called an audible. We rode Pooh, Peter Pan, Dumbo, Barnstormer and Tea Cups in quick succession - all in the first hour. My sister and niece had a 9:00 FP for A&E so we got a waffle while we waited for them. Then we did HM, IASM, Little Mermaid, Enchanted Tales, and the Carousel. We had an 11:30 ADR for CP and we checked in early. So, before lunch we had done 10 attractions and a meet 'n greet and had time for a snack. And at that point, only two members of our group had used a FP. After a long break swimming back at hotel we returned to MK late afternoon. We rode JC and POTC with FP. Walked into Tiki Room. Short standby for Magic Carpets. We had dinner at Pecos Bill and that was the longest line I waited in all day! After dinner, some of us did Space Mountain with FP while my Mom and nephew did Speedway with FP. Oh, and at some point we also watched the Move It Shake It parade and had a Dole Whip. Total for the day: 15 attractions, 1 meet and greet, 1 parade, 2 snacks, 1 character meal, and one CS meal. My only complaint was the Pecos Bill clustercuss. I think we got our money's worth that day.

 

[wisblue]

Jimmy, did you even read my post?

I don't think I could have been clearer that I completely understand why the OP, and others with similar experiences, don't like FP+, and I am not trying to offer them any comfort.

But, I am also not looking at this just from the standpoint of Disney's finances. I am including the perspective of guests whose experience is improved by FP+.

Maybe this extreme analogy would make my point more clearly. Say that I was part of a group of 5% of Disney guests that had a pass that gave me unlimited FPs for all attractions. So, while I was waltzing to the front of every line, the other 95% of the guests would be waiting in longer lines.

If Disney took those passes away, I and the rest of the lucky 5% would be upset because our experiences would be diminished. But the other 95% of the guests would get the benefit of having their waits reduced. So, even though I would dislike the change, that wouldn't make it a bad decision on the company's part.

I have no argument with people who say "I hate FP+ because it is a negative for our family and I couldn't care less about anyone else".

But, the discussion about whether FP+ was a bad move for Disney is completely different.

ETA, I was responding to post that was subsequently edited. Thank you to Jimmy V for clarifying .

 

[jade1]

The don't whistle while in a 45 minute line for Pirates thinking that "this is all for the best.

Actually they do, when they have have 3 Mountains reserved that used to be 160 minutes each. Actually I think I did whistle come to think of it.

But only every night of the trip.

 

[WillAustin]

Maybe we should hope it's not the money thing some are advertising-but for me I hope it is and they start charging.

I'd be first in line to buy extras.

 

[AustinTink]

FP+ doesn't seem too popular in Austin, Texas.

Yep, and we are one of the most tech-savvy cities in the world to answer one of your earlier points.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Actually they do, when they have have 3 Mountains reserved that used to be 160 minutes each. Actually I think I did whistle come to think of it.

But only every night of the trip.

Your happiness is only an illusion. You have been successfully integrated into the Disney Matrix. Any more whistling will result in severe punishment.

 

[jade1]

I'd be first in line to buy extras.

Right there with ya.

I did notice the money talk slowed down once an obvious available, easily implemented FP+ revenue stream (if needed) was presented.

 

[AustinTink]

I just don't understand how people are riding fewer rides. I'm not saying anyone is lying. I just had the complete opposite experience. We went to the Magic Kingdom on Thursday, August 14 (7/10 crowd). It was EMH morning. We were there at Rope Drop. We planned to rope drop 7DMT but it was down so we called an audible. We rode Pooh, Peter Pan, Dumbo, Barnstormer and Tea Cups in quick succession - all in the first hour. My sister and niece had a 9:00 FP for A&E so we got a waffle while we waited for them. Then we did HM, IASM, Little Mermaid, Enchanted Tales, and the Carousel. We had an 11:30 ADR for CP and we checked in early. So, before lunch we had done 10 attractions and a meet 'n greet and had time for a snack. And at that point, only two members of our group had used a FP. After a long break swimming back at hotel we returned to MK late afternoon. We rode JC and POTC with FP. Walked into Tiki Room. Short standby for Magic Carpets. We had dinner at Pecos Bill and that was the longest line I waited in all day! After dinner, some of us did Space Mountain with FP while my Mom and nephew did Speedway with FP. Oh, and at some point we also watched the Move It Shake It parade and had a Dole Whip. Total for the day: 15 attractions, 1 meet and greet, 1 parade, 2 snacks, 1 character meal, and one CS meal. My only complaint was the Pecos Bill clustercuss. I think we got our money's worth that day.

The key here is rope drop. Our former touring strategy included all those minus rope drop. Now rope drop is much more essential.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Yep, and we are one of the most tech-savvy cities in the world to answer one of your earlier points.

That wasn't one of my earlier points.

 

[AustinTink]

So if it was your game to beat the system before... Why isn't it your game to beat the system now? It's just... a different game. It's like playing a game and beating level 1. Now you must beat level 2. It gets a little harder. I hate to say it but it sounds like FP+ changed the game... A game which you knew, liked, and could beat w your eyes closed. So you gave up on trying to beat it.

I only play games that are fun and don't feel like work.

 

[AustinTink]

That wasn't one of my earlier points.

Seriously? You said that people who don't like fastpass plus are not fans of technology and the new system was too much for them to understand. Obviously paraphrasing here. You even had other people speak to that point upthread. Or was that someone else?

 

[BugsDaddy]

The key here is rope drop. Our former touring strategy included all those minus rope drop. Now rope drop is much more essential.

I thought that one of the main talking points in the argument against FP+ was that it increased standby waits everywhere else. Sounds like they were able to get a load of rides in just going through the standby lines with the exception of one FP.

Must of been a really, really slow day at the ole MK that day (talking point #2).

 

[JimmyV]

Jimmy, did you even read my post?

I don't think I could have been clearer that I completely understand why the OP, and others with similar experiences, don't like FP+, and I am not trying to offer them any comfort.

Of course I did. And mine wasn't an attack or a rebuttal against anything you said. More of just an essay on how two different perspectives drive two different results. There are many here who look only at the broader view, and others who look only at the narrow view. When approached that way, the chasm can never be bridged. I will go back and edit mine so as not to make it look like I was being critical of you in any way, because that was no my intent.