LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[BugsDaddy]

Seriously? You said that people who don't like fastpass plus are not fans of technology and the new system was too much for them to understand. Obviously paraphrasing here. You even had other people speak to that point upthread.

That's not what I said at all. You didn't paraphrase. You changed the meaning. The point I was making was that people who are less tech savvy are more likely not to like FP+, not the other way around. Which is my opinion and probably those that are less tech savvy would agree that it is an issue. You probably won't find many of those types of people here because they tend to not hang out on Internet message boards. I also said that change is difficult.

 

[Laketravis]

It seems that MK is the park regularly offered up as an example of how well FP+ works. I'm not sure I've seen as many claims using Epcot or Hollywood Studios.



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[JimmyV]

Actually they do, when they have have 3 Mountains reserved that used to be 160 minutes each. Actually I think I did whistle come to think of it.

But only every night of the trip.

But in order for your math to work, you have to subtract out the amount of time that you used to save with FP- on those three mountains.
You can't assume that under FP-, the total wait time was 160 for the mountains plus 10 for PoTC for a total of 170, and now, under FP+ the wait time for the mountains is 0 and the wait for PoTC is 45 for a total of 45. That seems to be your assertion, but it is absurd. Doesn't anyone appreciate how much time was saved by using 7 or 8 FPs in a day before? Or is fuzzy correct and only 18 people ever figured out how to use the system and all of them post here on this Board?

 

[Laketravis]

Yep, and we are one of the most tech-savvy cities in the world to answer one of your earlier points.

Not to mention the last time I checked those JetBlue and Southwest flights from ABIA to MCO were full every day. We've got a very high number of WDW fans per capita.


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[wisblue]

Of course I did. And mine wasn't an attack or a rebuttal against anything you said. More of just an essay on how two different perspectives drive two different results. There are many here who look only at the broader view, and others who look only at the narrow view. When approached that way, the chasm can never be bridged. I will go back and edit mine so as not to make it look like I was being critical of you in any way, because that was no my intent.

Thank you for clarifying.

It really isn't necessary for you to edit your post because if you do that it's going to look like I was misinterpreting your comments.

I just want to make it clear that I am not expecting Austin Tink or anyone else to take one for the team. But I am suggesting that everyone might have to look at the bigger picture if they want to discuss if FP+ is an overall good or bad thing and whether it is going to have a negative affect on the company in the future.

 

[MrInfinity]

But in order for your math to work, you have to subtract out the amount of time that you used to save with FP- on those three mountains.
You can't assume that under FP-, the total wait time was 160 for the mountains plus 10 for PoTC for a total of 170, and now, under FP+ the wait time for the mountains is 0 and the wait for PoTC is 45 for a total of 45. That seems to be your assertion, but it is absurd. Doesn't anyone appreciate how much time was saved by using 7 or 8 FPs in a day before? Or is fuzzy correct and only 18 people ever figured out how to use the system and all of them post here on this Board?

Jimmy, come on you know I never said 18. I said something like 5,000 could pull 3 each and that would consume 15,000 ridings out of 30,000 total.

You tell me the numbers. Do some math, make an estimate. Or change the subject, I don't care. Just don't put words in my mouth. Wrong ones at that.

If you seriously pulled 7 or 8 before, at Epcot, then tell me just how many guests you think actually did that.

 

[JimmyV]

I just don't understand how people are riding fewer rides. I'm not saying anyone is lying. I just had the complete opposite experience.

It all comes down to touring style. And the park you are in. Assume that in the past, your day at DHS was simply not complete unless you rode:
TSMM x 2
RnR x 3
ToT x 2

Not everybody did this. We are told here that "most people did", and that "few people did". We just don't know. But the fact is, some did. I was one of them. There is no math that you can apply to this problem to make that day easier or faster to accomplish now than it was in the past. And it shouldn't be easier. Remember that there is a profit objective in this for Disney. Do they want to make you more efficient and faster, or less efficient and slower? Do they want you to add a day or two to your trip in order to accomplish all the things that you want, or do they want you to chop a day or two off of your trip so that you can go stay at Universal for a few days? It simply cannot be the case that Disney implemented this system so that people could accomplish in 4 days that which they used to accomplish in 5. But if it turns out that this is what they did, and that people can now tour the parks faster and more efficiently, leaving them with extra days to go see Harry Potter, then somebody is going to get fired. There are no absolutes here. Maybe some people can ride 23 rides in a day when they used to only do 18. But if that is happening, then Disney goofed.

 

[BugsDaddy]

The bottom line is that FP+ is here to stay until the next program kicks in. One thing I can say with almost certainity is that the next program will not see a return to the old paper FP system. Looking back is like still pining over Mr. Toads Wild Ride.

 

[SmithSmith]

But in order for your math to work, you have to subtract out the amount of time that you used to save with FP- on those three mountains.
You can't assume that under FP-, the total wait time was 160 for the mountains plus 10 for PoTC for a total of 170, and now, under FP+ the wait time for the mountains is 0 and the wait for PoTC is 45 for a total of 45. That seems to be your assertion, but it is absurd. Doesn't anyone appreciate how much time was saved by using 7 or 8 FPs in a day before? Or is fuzzy correct and only 18 people ever figured out how to use the system and all of them post here on this Board?

I don't mean to speak for Jade, but have you never read their posts before? Jade has explained repeatedly that they go to WDW late in the day and during the busiest times of the year, so under those conditions FP- would have been unavailable to them. That is why there is nothing "absurd" with their assertion.

 

[JimmyV]

Jimmy, come on you know I never said 18. I said something like 5,000 could pull 3 each and that would consume 15,000 ridings out of 30,000 total.

I know. But what would be the fun in not exaggerating? We'll never know the math. And I'm not blaming you for this, but every time you do the "X number of people could not ride" calculation, you leave out the huge numbers of people who are not tall enough to ride the most popular attractions, and the ones who do not wish to. Yes, there are 50,000 people in the park on a given day, and maybe 30,000 get to ride a ride. But that doesn't mean that the other 20,000 wanted to, or were eligible to. There are an awful lot of strollers and ECVs in WDW. Again, I know that you know that. But we can't just use quick math to prove that FP- "abusers" were depriving huge groups of people from riding.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I know. But what would be the fun in not exaggerating? We'll never know the math. And I'm not blaming you for this, but every time you do the "X number of people could not ride" calculation, you leave out the huge numbers of people who are not tall enough to ride the most popular attractions, and the ones who do not wish to. Yes, there are 50,000 people in the park on a given day, and maybe 30,000 get to ride a ride. But that doesn't mean that the other 20,000 wanted to, or were eligible to. There are an awful lot of strollers and ECVs in WDW. Again, I know that you know that. But we can't just use quick math to prove that FP- "abusers" were depriving huge groups of people from riding.

Something to keep in mind when Anna and Elsa or Mine Train availability or lack thereof is symbolic of failure of the system.

 

[JimmyV]

I don't mean to speak for Jade, but have you never read their posts before? Jade has explained repeatedly that they go to WDW late in the day and during the busiest times of the year, so under those conditions FP- would have been unavailable to them. That is why there is nothing "absurd" with their assertion.

Of course it is absurd. First, let's not buy into the falsehood that "all FPs were gone by noon." Simply not true. Second, one cannot fault the FP- system for "failing" a guest who saunters in to the MK at 4:00 on a day that it closed at 8:00 and wanted to do all three mountains with minimal waiting. Was the FP system supposed to be designed around that style of touring? Of course not. Anyone who waited in 160 collective minutes to ride all three mountains has no one to blame but themselves for doing so and is not deserving of any sympathy.

 

[BugsDaddy]

It all comes down to touring style. And the park you are in. Assume that in the past, your day at DHS was simply not complete unless you rode:
TSMM x 2
RnR x 3
ToT x 2

Not everybody did this. We are told here that "most people did", and that "few people did". We just don't know. But the fact is, some did. I was one of them. There is no math that you can apply to this problem to make that day easier or faster to accomplish now than it was in the past. And it shouldn't be easier. Remember that there is a profit objective in this for Disney. Do they want to make you more efficient and faster, or less efficient and slower? Do they want you to add a day or two to your trip in order to accomplish all the things that you want, or do they want you to chop a day or two off of your trip so that you can go stay at Universal for a few days? It simply cannot be the case that Disney implemented this system so that people could accomplish in 4 days that which they used to accomplish in 5. But if it turns out that this is what they did, and that people can now tour the parks faster and more efficiently, leaving them with extra days to go see Harry Potter, then somebody is going to get fired. There are no absolutes here. Maybe some people can ride 23 rides in a day when they used to only do 18. But if that is happening, then Disney goofed.

That's actually a good point. And, I would say that most visitors to WDW do not go to WDW to ride every roller coaster 3 times. They ride the coaster once and then move on to other things. Shows, parades, other rides, etc. Coaster hopping is something you would find more in a six flags park where there really is not much more to do than to ride coasters and they cater to a different type of visitor typically. Therefore, I would theorize that the touring style employed by most WDW visitors would fit well with FP+.

 

[jade1]

But in order for your math to work, you have to subtract out the amount of time that you used to save with FP- on those three mountains.
You can't assume that under FP-, the total wait time was 160 for the mountains plus 10 for PoTC for a total of 170, and now, under FP+ the wait time for the mountains is 0 and the wait for PoTC is 45 for a total of 45. That seems to be your assertion, but it is absurd. Doesn't anyone appreciate how much time was saved by using 7 or 8 FPs in a day before? Or is fuzzy correct and only 18 people ever figured out how to use the system and all of them post here on this Board?

Last time at XMAS a few years ago.

But apparently you have not visited at XMAS.

Arriving even at noon all of FP- were long gone. We stay until 3AM so even noon would be a 15 hour day.

160 minutes was for each of the mountains the evening of NYE preview fireworks at midnight.

So Pirates....10 (which was more than 45 minutes as well, but lets use 10)
BTMRR........160
Space.........160
SPlash........160

Total..........490 minutes / 4 is 122 minutes per ride, or a bit over 2 hours each.

This year:

BTMRR......10
7DMT........10
Space.......10
Pirate ......45

Total..... 75 minute / 4 is is 19 minutes each.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Of course it is absurd. First, let's not buy into the falsehood that "all FPs were gone by noon." Simply not true. Second, one cannot fault the FP- system for "failing" a guest who saunters in to the MK at 4:00 on a day that it closed at 8:00 and wanted to do all three mountains with minimal waiting. Was the FP system supposed to be designed around that style of touring? Of course not. Anyone who waited in 160 collective minutes to ride all three mountains has no one to blame but themselves for doing so and is not deserving of any sympathy.

So, the touring style was to blame? They were not doing it right? Sounds like the same argument the FP+ advocates are blamed for using against those who dislike FP+.

 

[JimmyV]

And, I would say that most visitors to WDW ...Therefore, I would theorize that the touring style employed by most WDW visitors would fit well with FP+.

Not picking nits here. But this is the great unknown. One cannot leap to the conclusion that FP+ "works for most people" because "most people don't repeat headliners", and one cannot leap to the conclusion that FP+ "fails most people" because "most people like to repeat headliners". We just don't know. What we do know is that "repeat riders" are not better off. And "one and done" riders are better off.

 

[AustinTink]

It all comes down to touring style. And the park you are in. Assume that in the past, your day at DHS was simply not complete unless you rode:
TSMM x 2
RnR x 3
ToT x 2

Not everybody did this. We are told here that "most people did", and that "few people did". We just don't know. But the fact is, some did. I was one of them. There is no math that you can apply to this problem to make that day easier or faster to accomplish now than it was in the past. And it shouldn't be easier. Remember that there is a profit objective in this for Disney. Do they want to make you more efficient and faster, or less efficient and slower? Do they want you to add a day or two to your trip in order to accomplish all the things that you want, or do they want you to chop a day or two off of your trip so that you can go stay at Universal for a few days? It simply cannot be the case that Disney implemented this system so that people could accomplish in 4 days that which they used to accomplish in 5. But if it turns out that this is what they did, and that people can now tour the parks faster and more efficiently, leaving them with extra days to go see Harry Potter, then somebody is going to get fired. There are no absolutes here. Maybe some people can ride 23 rides in a day when they used to only do 18. But if that is happening, then Disney goofed.

That was our day in a nutshell. This next trip we won't be visiting DHS because that day cannot be accomplished anymore in that time frame with FP+.

So this March, we are doing 1 measly day in WDW (MK) and spending the rest of our week on property at Universal. Our WDW trips in the past have all been 1-2 weeks all on Disney property. I can't be the only consumer FP+ has affected so negatively and so directly in Disney's pocketbook.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Of course it is absurd. First, let's not buy into the falsehood that "all FPs were gone by noon." Simply not true. Second, one cannot fault the FP- system for "failing" a guest who saunters in to the MK at 4:00 on a day that it closed at 8:00 and wanted to do all three mountains with minimal waiting. Was the FP system supposed to be designed around that style of touring? Of course not. Anyone who waited in 160 collective minutes to ride all three mountains has no one to blame but themselves for doing so and is not deserving of any sympathy.

As can be said when they don't want to book FP+ ahead of time and complain nothing was available the day they sauntered in. They have no one to blame but themselves.

But we all know that there are still rides available.

 

[JimmyV]

So, the touring style was to blame?

Yes. Start a poll if you wish. Ask the audience. Is going during Christmas week and not getting to the MK before noon the best strategy for minimizing wait times? Go ahead and post that poll. Now, if a guest isn't interested in minimizing wait times, then fine. But one cannot employ that touring strategy and then complain that FPs were gone and lines were to long.

 

[SmithSmith]

Of course it is absurd. First, let's not buy into the falsehood that "all FPs were gone by noon." Simply not true. Second, one cannot fault the FP- system for "failing" a guest who saunters in to the MK at 4:00 on a day that it closed at 8:00 and wanted to do all three mountains with minimal waiting. Was the FP system supposed to be designed around that style of touring? Of course not. Anyone who waited in 160 collective minutes to ride all three mountains has no one to blame but themselves for doing so and is not deserving of any sympathy.

Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I do find it odd that you're blaming the touring style. A style that Jade has been promoting for awhile now, and a style that Lake wants to adopt.

Yes, I've read many places that FP- would have all been given out by noon. Doesn't help the person who wants to take advantage of extra late hours during the busiest days of the year.