LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[gray52]

Unless the people who are deciding who to sample are purposefully only sampling those that seem happy. I also read here about someone who repeatedly walked by the questioners over a longer trip they weren't enjoying so much and were never asked to answer the questions. Then on a couple occasions when they saw the questioners put on a beaming face, and were indeed asked to respond to the survey. - of course this could just be absolutely random, its one persons' experience. But there is no reason to assume that their sample selection is more accurate or representative without knowing how they are actually selecting subjects. I also remember you trying to use a quote where Iger said that the majority of people who used Magic bands rated the experience as positive also meant that they rated FP+ as positive, which is not accurate at all.

I can tell you that over the last 4 years this was exactly our experience. I have always thought FP+ probably works best at the busiest times of the year, about, 1/3rd to 1/4th of the year. Though I am seeing some reports that this might not be true, but I have never been on peak days (other than presidents day weekend once) so I can't compare their experiences. They just might be dealing with larger crowds and it might be less FP+'s fault than they think, just like when people go in very low crowds and say FP+ is great because they could do so much, its probably not FP+'s fault either. But for us, in February and May, we could get to the park after RD, 10 or even 11, shortly after arrival (not even necessarily a bullet to TSMM either !!!) pull an FP for an hour or two later. And in the other parks this was far more obvious, far greater FP availability, shorter SB wait times. NO need to rush around the parks pulling FPs, just casually go with the flow and get a crap ton done. No phones, no kiosks, no preplanning, shorter SB lines. Wake up and pick a park, head there, tour, SB some stuff, pick up FPs as you go, adjust to the crowds. Park feels too crowded ? Hop to another one, casually walk around, jump in shorter SB lines, pick up FPs as you go.

On the upper part... I agree.

On the lower part.... I 100% agree. We are preparing for our 20th year of Disney this year... You've hit the savvy Disney traveler perfectly.

 

[Angel Ariel]

See you're not factoring in that you're not waiting for FP- tickets at all. This is some significant time saved. The TSMM FP- queue built up fast!

Maybe it's because we weren't there right at RD for TSMM, but we did not have these long waits for getting FPs that I keep seeing being referenced. Not on any of our trips since FP was introduced.

 

[mom2rtk]

Maybe it's because we weren't there right at RD for TSMM, but we did not have these long waits for getting FPs that I keep seeing being referenced. Not on any of our trips since FP was introduced.

Same here. Never waited behind more than a couple people at the FP machine, probably because we delayed a bit before getting them for TSMM.

 

[flicx]

A 1.5 to 2 billion dollar expenditure that half of the people that go to your park dislike sounds like a massive waste of money. Iger is gonna sing the praises of this new system. That's his job, got to keep them big bonuses coming in. In my opinion if half the people don't like it. The system is a FAIL!

 

[gray52]

same here. Never waited behind more than a couple people at the fp machine, probably because we delayed a bit before getting them for tsmm.

x 3

 

[Laketravis]

And in the other parks this was far more obvious, far greater FP availability, shorter SB wait times. NO need to rush around the parks pulling FPs, just casually go with the flow and get a crap ton done. No phones, no kiosks, no preplanning, shorter SB lines. Wake up and pick a park, head there, tour, SB some stuff, pick up FPs as you go, adjust to the crowds. Park feels too crowded ? Hop to another one, casually walk around, jump in shorter SB lines, pick up FPs as you go.

Here's something to consider - EasyWDW has today at a "2".

Yet, right now, in Epcot:

Test Track: 70 minutes
Soarin: 90 minutes
Mission Space: 30 minutes
Spaceship Earth: 25 minutes

In MK:

Peter Pan: 100 minutes
Seven Dwarfs: 70 minutes
Jungle Cruise: 55 minutes
Space Mountain: 55 minutes

Is "2" the new "8" ???

 

[BarbieGal457]

Loved it. Nine days out from NYE at MK this year, we got 7DMT, BTMRR, and Splash with no issues. Once in the park we had such an easy time using them and even got three more to other things with extremely minimal kiosk waits. It made life a LOT easier for us! We used to only use 2 max because we hated having to run all over the park to all the machines, only to find out they were out for the day. We are so excited to use it again this summer!

It just amazes me that so many people are so incredibly against it, especially people who have never even tried it yet. We went into it with zero opinion either way, kept an open mind, and fell in love.

 

[MrInfinity]

EasyWDW has today at a "2".

Yet, right now, in Epcot:

Test Track: 70 minutes
Soarin: 90 minutes
Mission Space: 30 minutes
Spaceship Earth: 25 minutes

In MK:

Peter Pan: 100 minutes
Seven Dwarfs: 70 minutes
Jungle Cruise: 55 minutes
Space Mountain: 55 minutes

Is "2" the new "8" ???

Well... if 10 is 50,000 guests, that does not mean 1 is 5,000 guests and 2 is 10,000 guests. It's not linear like that. Thus the crowd calendars are kind of meaningless when you consider that you're talking about "slightly more or less busy" from a 2 to an 8, not 4x busier.

It might be shades from 45,000 guests to 50,000 guests, and in that range, whether it's a 2 (46,000) or an 8 (49,000) makes only a little difference (numbers picked at random -- if you wish to insert actual attendance the calendars represent feel free). So I would agree that today, a mid-week January day is going to be on the light side of busy, but TT will still have a long line midday! These hottest rides at WDW -- they will build to an hour plus every day. And right now it's 11:40. Waiting standby for headliners in the middle of the day has typically always been an hour. Pre-FP, FP-, and FP+.

TT and Soarin had crazy lines in 2010 and 2012 when we were there.

 

[Shaden]

Same here. Never waited behind more than a couple people at the FP machine, probably because we delayed a bit before getting them for TSMM.

Indeed, I had never even heard of an FP- line before being on these boards, at most it was 2 or 3 people in front of me that took all of 20 seconds each.

There was once a guy who must have had like 40 or 50 cards though, that was at safari I think ? or Everest ? It was in AK for sure, and I did line up behind him, and was like ... "what's taking so long !?!?!" Once I saw what was happening I just popped over one machine. That really stood out to me -because- I had never had to wait for FP-s before so I couldn't understand what was happening.

OTOH - FP+, we stood in some significant lines at the kiosks, even in the first couple weeks of may. And people could take a significant amount of time at the kiosks, heck even I did a couple times and I knew exactly what I was doing. There is just a lot of sorting and requesting and re requesting to see whats available.

Without a doubt I spend some multiple more time getting FP+s than I did FP-. Even including the time spent on the few occasions we would send someone (me) to fetch FPs for the group, which we did from time to time, though that was not our typical experience/style.

 

[Suvadoo]

Shaden, I think even the most die-hard FP+ fans will accept that yes, it requires some sense of pre-booking. But, when dropping $5k-$10k on a vacation, I'm not just going to show up at the airport. You realize you cannot even go up in the Statue of Liberty nowadays just showing up? You need to buy tix months in advance. Wow was that a surprise when I showed up in NY w my son and couldn't go up in the SOL cuz I assumed it was like it was 20 years ago when I last went. Things change. If you want to do high-demand attractions, anywhere, you need to give it a little forethought.

I don't have a problem making reservations for accomodations, tours, and air travel. But 3 -10 minute rides? I don't see how you can even justify a comparison! IMO making ride reservations is absurd! As someone pointed out on a previous thread, this would be comparable to reserving viewing times fro paintings in a museum.

Fair enough, FP- was great because only a small subset was allotted, and those, only to a very small group of people, one of which was my family. But as great as that was, it's not realistic to think Disney should continue such an inefficient system that benefits me so much more than the rest of the guests, to where I could ride many times while other guests rode none. It just was not a good system to promote a good experience for all.

Legacy was great because it was only for headline attractions. SB lines have always been long for headliners. Now the secondary attractions have them.
Yeah , here's the reason for FP+, Fairness to all. Gimme a break!

Again yes, there is a bit more structure... but it is structure which helps cut out wasted time.

IMO and based on other posts I've read, FP+ is a lot more structure. People spend a lot more time trying to find a ride with an acceptable SB wait or standing around waiting for their next FP+ window to open. Therefore a lot more wasted time.

However, given that we will still go to WDW, many people are demonstrating that with a little ingenuity, some relearning, and changing old habits, we can get on just as much as before, and even have a better more relaxing time too, despite the added "structure". Adding structure in one place saves you time in others... I have often reiterated how by having 3 rides guaranteed, it actually frees up a lot of our day to be more spontaneous.

You are Disney's ideal customer, you're willing to pay more and experience less.

 

[MrInfinity]

Since memory tends to be fleeting and we always see "the now" as the worst time ever, look back on 2009...
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2270827

Quoting:
We headed straight for tsm, rode it stand by. on the way out, grabbed a fp for later. (return time 1:30).

i.e. Straight for TSMM = 1:30 return time.

We were there just last week and were able to hit TSMM around 10am (maybe later) grabbed Fastpasses with a 3:30 return time then rode standby right then with a half hour wait. Came back and used the Fastpasses around 5ish right before we left.

i.e. 10am pull = 3:30 return time.

So, showing up at 11 and getting a 12:30 return, then riding and getting another was just not a realistic thing to say one could expect to do at DHS. It's just easy to forget things from 5-6 years ago and figure things are so much worse now.

We really went in 2014, and we got on a LOT. JTA for rope drop, TSMM x2, RnRx2, TOT, STx4, Dis Jr, Had breakfast, saw both the opening and closing shows... this all on a busy day, and with FP+. So you CAN get on a lot. Whether you like the structure or not, whether you love FP+, if you make it work for you, like we made FP- work for us before, you can still have great days and get just as much done as before.

 

[mom2rtk]

Since memory tends to be fleeting and we always see "the now" as the worst time ever, look back on 2009...
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2270827

Quoting:
We headed straight for tsm, rode it stand by. on the way out, grabbed a fp for later. (return time 1:30).

i.e. Straight for TSMM = 1:30 return time.

We were there just last week and were able to hit TSMM around 10am (maybe later) grabbed Fastpasses with a 3:30 return time then rode standby right then with a half hour wait. Came back and used the Fastpasses around 5ish right before we left.

i.e. 10am pull = 3:30 return time.

So, showing up at 11 and getting a 12:30 return, then riding and getting another was just not a realistic thing to say one could expect to do at DHS. It's just easy to forget things from 5-6 years ago and figure things are so much worse now.

We really went in 2014, and we got on a LOT. JTA for rope drop, TSMM x2, RnRx2, TOT, STx4, Dis Jr, Had breakfast, saw both the opening and closing shows... this all on a busy day, and with FP+. So you CAN get on a lot. Whether you like the structure or not, whether you love FP+, if you make it work for you, like we made FP- work for us before, you can still have great days and get just as much done as before.

Nobody here said there wasn't a line for FP distribution for that one ride at that one time of day.

The advice on that thread seemed to be to ride standby THEN get the FP after the line dissipates. We would purposely do something else for the first 30-60 minutes of the day then go over and get a FP with almost nobody ahead of us in line.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

I have seen a lot of references in this thread and others to long waits for POTC. I think this is not a good example of how SB waits have increased. Yes, the SB waits seem to have increased for POTC. However, I think it's due to it being broken. That's why it's going down this year for a major refurb. It's not just the SB line that's long. I waited over 45 minutes in the FP+ line at POTC, because it kept breaking down. However, there may be other rides that now have longer SB waits. I didn't notice this phenomenon in late July though.

Also, I am curious if the people that like FP+ are avid planners. For instance, I love Touring Plans and wouldn't dream of doing a park without a personalized plan from their site. This sort of thing lends itself very well to a system like FP+. If you were already planning on being at a ride at a certain time, that time is now your FP+ window. I'm in the like FP+ camp, but it isn't very different from what I have always done.

I would consider myself an avid planner. I love Touring Plans, but I also love the ability to change my plans if I need to and when we went in October, I didn't feel like I had the ability to do that. I followed my touring plans closer than I ever have before. FP+ leaves me feeling very locked in, which is ironic since the Disney planning DVD told me that it would set me free. I think it's interesting to note that many people felt like obtaining FP+ reservations was much harder during Sept/Oct/Nov when the park has shorter hours.

This was not the case when we went. If we had a FP to a ride and it wend down due to weather or maintenance, the guy standing at the front entrance gave us two options... 1) he would rebook it on any ride we chose, giving us a new FP to that ride with a set window. Or 2) let the FP expire, and because the ride went down, it would convert to an "Any" Fastpass after that.

If you wanted to use it right away, you had to switch it to something. If you were willing to wait and see if the ride reopened during your return window, you could, w the assurance that if it didn't it would then become an "Any".

So there is no worry about outright losing your FP due to weather or maintenance.

As a PP pointed out, this definitely was not the case when we went. Test Track was down and we could not use our FP on Soarin, which basically made it worthless. We just had to keep our fingers crossed that Test Track would re-open before the end of the day and it eventually did. Of course, the FP+ line was ridiculously long since everyone else was waiting to use their FP too.

So there is definitely is a reason to worry about losing a worthwhile FP due to weather or maintenance.

I do not believe that was a consistent experience. If you pulled TSMM at 9 you will get a return around that time. If you got to the park at 11 you would not get such a 12:30 return window, in time to ride this and still pull a RnR. FP- just did not work that way. Perhaps on a rain day or something, anything is possible so I won't say it didn't happen, but I would assert if you claim a viable strategy was to show up at 11 to HS intending to pull FP- to TSMM and RnR that would not be a recommended strategy because it is not likely to work like that.

If you went at 9am, you could possibly get both. But only because you're using your Rope Drop time to get an extra riding, which you can do under FP+.

Getting more than one FP to TSMM was not a problem for us until FP+ was introduced. Since we usually go over the same week each year, I would say that riding TSMM 3 times (once standby, twice with FP) was a consistent experience for us. And as another poster pointed out, you could always get another FP 2 hours after you pulled your previous FP, no matter what your return time was.

Indeed, I had never even heard of an FP- line before being on these boards, at most it was 2 or 3 people in front of me that took all of 20 seconds each.

There was once a guy who must have had like 40 or 50 cards though, that was at safari I think ? or Everest ? It was in AK for sure, and I did line up behind him, and was like ... "what's taking so long !?!?!" Once I saw what was happening I just popped over one machine. That really stood out to me -because- I had never had to wait for FP-s before so I couldn't understand what was happening.

OTOH - FP+, we stood in some significant lines at the kiosks, even in the first couple weeks of may. And people could take a significant amount of time at the kiosks, heck even I did a couple times and I knew exactly what I was doing. There is just a lot of sorting and requesting and re requesting to see whats available.

To be fair, I do remember standing in line to get FP at TSMM at rope drop, but I think a lot of that was eliminated by dropping the opening show at DHS.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Since memory tends to be fleeting and we always see "the now" as the worst time ever, look back on 2009...
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2270827

Quoting:
We headed straight for tsm, rode it stand by. on the way out, grabbed a fp for later. (return time 1:30).

i.e. Straight for TSMM = 1:30 return time.

Note that they *headed* TSMM right away, but they did not grab a FP until *after* they had ridden standby. Does it say how long they waited standby?

So, showing up at 11 and getting a 12:30 return, then riding and getting another was just not a realistic thing to say one could expect to do at DHS. It's just easy to forget things from 5-6 years ago and figure things are so much worse now.

No one is saying that if you showed up at 11 you'd get a 12:30 return. What we are saying is that if you pulled a FP at 11am and you had a return time that was more than 2 hrs out, you could pull another FP at 1pm. you *did not* have to wait unitl your return time to pull another FP. It was the return time OR 2 hrs - whichever came *first*.

I am honestly not sure why you're insisting that one would have had to have a 12:30 return to grab another FP under legacy. The rules of the system were quite clear. Pick one up, and you can grab another when your window opens OR 2 hrs later -whichever came first.

We really went in 2014, and we got on a LOT. JTA for rope drop, TSMM x2, RnRx2, TOT, STx4, Dis Jr, Had breakfast, saw both the opening and closing shows... this all on a busy day, and with FP+. So you CAN get on a lot. Whether you like the structure or not, whether you love FP+, if you make it work for you, like we made FP- work for us before, you can still have great days and get just as much done as before.

Yes, one can still get a lot done. We did on our DHS day. I'm not debating that. What I'm saying is that we got *more* done - of what we *wanted* to do under legacy than under FP+. The benefit *to us* of being able to cherry pick a TSMM time is not better than having the FP availability for all of the other rides in DHS that we had under legacy.

It sounds like you had more 4th FP+ availability than we did. At 3:15 when we went to get a 4th FP, there was no headliner availability at all - no TOT, no RNRC, no Star Tours. We did not have that issue for those rides at 3pm in the afternoon when it was an 8p close under legacy. We ended up taking a 4pm Indy FP+ just to take something. We didn't bother going back to the kiosk after Indy since there was such little availability before Indy. And it's not like we're talking level 10 crowds here...it was like level 7s or something. The park wasn't crazy busy.

 

[MrInfinity]

I don't have a problem making reservations for accomodations, tours, and air travel. But 3 -10 minute rides? I don't see how you can even justify a comparison! IMO making ride reservations is absurd! As someone pointed out on a previous thread, this would be comparable to reserving viewing times fro paintings in a museum.

You continue to trivialize this as if it's some 3-10 min ride, like... going on a swing. Or down a slide at the park. Yet, if we were to do a "major experience" like go up in the SOL, that would take 2 months of planning, most of a day, $100 in tickets, and $300 for a room. At Disney world, we're willing to drop a lot more than that, doing "3-10 min rides". I think our average is close to $1000/day, for some of what you trivialize as just 3-10 min rides. They are experiences, they are expensive ones, and there are 50,000 other guests paying significant amounts of money to enjoy them too. So if you want to get on them with minimal waiting, a little planning is not unreasonable.

You are Disney's ideal customer, you're willing to pay more and experience less.

I don't understand this. I experience a lot. See previous post.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Same here. Never waited behind more than a couple people at the FP machine, probably because we delayed a bit before getting them for TSMM.

Never really had a wait, either. I have seen quite the wait at the kiosks for fast pass+, though. I haven't stood in the line, though.

 

[mom2rtk]

Never really had a wait, either. I have seen quite the wait at the kiosks for fast pass+, though. I haven't stood in the line, though.

Yeah, waiting behind someone who just needs to stick in a ticket and take what comes out is vastly different from being behind a group that has to 1) see what's available 2) agree on what to do and 3) select a time.

 

[Brian Noble]

In less than 30 hours, eight pages of mostly the same things posted by mostly the same people as all the other FP+ threads...

 

[mom2rtk]

In less than 30 hours, eight pages of mostly the same things posted by mostly the same people as all the other FP+ threads...

Up to and including this post.

 

[Angel Ariel]

You continue to trivialize this as if it's some 3-10 min ride, like... going on a swing. Or down a slide at the park. Yet, if we were to do a "major experience" like go up in the SOL, that would take 2 months of planning, most of a day, $100 in tickets, and $300 for a room. At Disney world, we're willing to drop a lot more than that, doing "3-10 min rides". I think our average is close to $1000/day, for some of what you trivialize as just 3-10 min rides. They are experiences, they are expensive ones, and there are 50,000 other guests paying significant amounts of money to enjoy them too. So if you want to get on them with minimal waiting, a little planning is not unreasonable.

For us, a "little" planning was choosing which parks/day based on crowd calendars and planning ADRs for our favorite restaurants. FP+, *for us* takes it beyond "a little" planning into the "a lot" of planning category.

You feel differently, and that's fine. But the fact that I have an issue with this amount of planning for FP+ doesn't mean I expect to do no planning and just show up either. I always have done planning and research for WDW. I just don't like doing it down to that level of detail - which is why we never had any kind of touring plans-like schedule.