LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[JanaDee]

Simply updating some information that another poster provided earlier in this thread. You didn't object to that.

What do Epcot wait times have to do with MK wait times?

 

[Laketravis]

Update on posted/actual Epcot wait times as of 1:40 EST, per Disney Wait Times site:

Test Track 60/50
Soarin 35/37
Mission Space 15/2
Nemo 15/7
Spaceship Earth 10/10
Living with the Land 0/0

Looks like a slow day at Epcot to me.

Good illustration on how useful real-time streaming data can be. I don't know if that's a "slow" day or not but the wait times dropped slightly from what they were a couple hours previous and indicates to me that they may be consistent. That combined with what TP or EasyWDW rate the day helps me get a better "feel" for what it will be like if I go on a "2" day.

Is there a reason you only chose to show the slight drop in Epcot and not the increase at MK?

7DMT: 140 minutes
Space Mountain: 80 minutes
BTMR: 70 minutes
Haunted Mansion: 65 minutes

Again, on a "2" day per EasyWDW. A previous poster mentioned longer standby lines as a negative effect of FP; would these wait times have been considered normal for a "2" day a couple of years ago?

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[soniam]

Most of my friends and family would consider me an avid planner, but I've never taken planning to the level of touring plans' personalized plans. Well, I shouldn't say never...I tried to once, and it was summarily rejected by my family as too regimented. I haven't done it since (and we never felt we needed to either). I'm thinking I may need to use Touring Plans that way again, though, to address the wide variety of things our extended family will want to accomplish in November. I'm not looking forward to that discussion with my family, TBH.

I wouldn't say they we are regimented about it. I use it mostly for ordering the rides. The times are a nice reference though to see if we think we will get it all in, which we always have and more. If our FP+ window is coming up but TP says to ride something else first, we usually take care of the FP+ and then go back to the ride we skipped. We still shop, use the bathroom, have snacks, look around, and linger, and I don't build those times into the schedule. We also utilize additional FP+ too.

 

[MrInfinity]

What do Epcot wait times have to do with MK wait times?

Nothing, nor do the posted Epcot waits have anything to do w the topic of whether one loves or hates FP+ and whether one's opinion has changed. Some people just like to interject random observations.

Rabbits eat lettuce.

See? I do it too.

And, it opens the gates for someone else to say... Nuh-uh, they also eat carrots! And other rabbits like to sleep in!

 

[wisblue]

What do Epcot wait times have to do with MK wait times?

Absolutely nothing. But that earlier post included Epcot wait times.

 

[Hokie2000]

Bolding is mine, but I think these are important points. Everyone's response is going to be based on how well FP+ works for their family. I think what some of us find particularly frustrating is when people say that what we experienced didn't happen. Like in some way we are misrepresenting our experiences. Truth is, with legacy fast pass we were able to ride both Soarin and TT twice in one day with little wait. With FP+ we can't do that.

We can probably still do the same number of things in a day, but they won't be the same things. I think Len Testa said that when they re-worked the touring plans for the Unofficial Guide to include FP+, they came out about the same or a little ahead. BUT, the basic touring plans they offer are designed to help a family experience every attraction once. My kids were 8 and 10 on our last trip and right now, they are all about the rides. FP+ makes re-riding our favorite attractions more difficult. It's not ideal for us, but I think that we can still make it work. We also had to deal with a lot of rain on our last trip, including thunder in MK which closed down a lot of rides. I'm sure that was a contributing factor too.

Oh I definitely agree, the statement I bolded goes both ways.

My kids favorite parts of our trip were Typhoon Lagoon and the Pirate Adventure Cruise. They each got a bag of "treasure" after the Pirate Adv. Cruise and they bugged us the whole afternoon we were at Epcot to go back to the resort and play with their treasure.

Don't get me wrong, they really like rides, but if we miss a ride it's no big deal. In fact, they were incredibly happy that long SB waits for Haunted Mansion caused us to skip it. Fraidy-cats. I've said it before, it's like FP+ was designed for us. I know that doesn't help you at all, but all I can say is sorry. And, I didn't do it!

 

[Angel Ariel]

I wouldn't say they we are regimented about it. I use it mostly for ordering the rides. The times are a nice reference though to see if we think we will get it all in, which we always have and more. If our FP+ window is coming up but TP says to ride something else first, we usually take care of the FP+ and then go back to the ride we skipped. We still shop, use the bathroom, have snacks, look around, and linger, and I don't build those times into the schedule. We also utilize additional FP+ too.

When I did try to use Touring Plans, all I tried to do was use it for ride ordering, not times or anything. My family rejected it. They prefer (and TBH, so do I), entering the park, picking a direction and just going.

If this upcoming trip were just DH, DD and I then I could maybe get away with trying ride ordering again after our experience in November. Adding in the extended family makes that much less likely to happen, as they will be a lot less of a fan of that than DH.

 

[Laketravis]

Nothing, nor do the posted Epcot waits have anything to do w the topic of whether one loves or hates FP+ and whether one's opinion has changed....

I think it does. Several posters have indicated that they do not like FP+ because of the effect it has had on wait times, a statement often disputed.

Do you agree or disagree that FP+ has affected wait times?

 

[wisblue]

Good illustration on how useful real-time streaming data can be. I don't know if that's a "slow" day or not but the wait times dropped slightly from what they were a couple hours previous and indicates to me that they may be consistent. That combined with what TP or EasyWDW rate the day helps me get a better "feel" for what it will be like if I go on a "2" day.

Those are more than "slight" drops. Unless we are applying a different standard for drops that we do to increases. If the wait time at SE goes from 10 minutes to 20, that's considered dramatic by some because it's a 100% increase. But, when it drops from 20 to 10, that's a "slight" drop?
A posted wait time of 35 minutes for Soarin really jumps out at me.

The wait times at Epcot look low to me, but the wait times at MK do not look like what I would expect on a crowd level 2 day. From this chart, it's not what Touring Plans would expect either:

http://touringplans.com/magic-kingdom/crowd-levels

But the Epcot waits seem to be in line with what Touring Plans would expect on a level 2 day:

http://touringplans.com/epcot/crowd-levels

It will be interesting to see tomorrow what they "actually saw" as the crowd level at MK today. Maybe all of the people who had their flights cancelled yesterday and today are spending an extra day at MK.

ETA: I see that while I was preparing my response you edited your original post to add a question about why I didn't update the times at MK. Although that question wasn't there, I think I answered it anyway with my comments about MK.

 

[Rebekkap]

So you must have scheduled the fast passes first thing in the morning.

Yup. Obviously if you want to maximise your FP use you have to schedule for first thing, just like under legacy FP you had to start pulling them first thing!

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I think this is the key difference here. On one trip you stay all day (RD to close) and ride 5 times. Next trip you ride 3 times and leave after 4 or 5 hours. By staying the full day instead, you could easily have fit in the 4th and 5th ride of TSMM.

RD to close at HS is 12 hours. That's almost triple the time of your later trip. Yet in 4 or 5 hours you were able to ride TSMM 3 times, plus ST and TOT? That is pretty amazing no? To say one can go to HS, and due to FP+, ride TSMM twice at Rope Drop (9am, 9:30am), get breakfast, 3rd time via FP+ (11:30am) and two other rides (12-2pm) and be out of there by 2?

And then easily ridden a 4th, 5th, or 6th time if you stayed till close?

A case for FP+ being less efficient... your argument does not make. All this points out is in a 1/2 day you can do about 1/2 of what you can in a full day.

I feel like you're missing something here (and adding untrue statements to bolster your argument...we never did TOT). In the past, over the course of 13ish hours, we were able to experience 5 TSM rides, 4 Star Tours rides, 3 shows, Characterpalooza, Fantasmic, and two other character M&Gs, and have three meals (including two TS meals) without feeling like we were rushing around and without leaving the park. 16 attractions plus 3 meals in 13 hours. With FP+, on one day, we did TSM 2 times, Star Tours 2 times, 1 show, and Characterpalooza before we left the park in frustration. We went to MK and played SOMK. Why? Because there were no same-day FP+s available at MK, either. The other day we started at DHS, our morning had JTA added, and we managed two Star Tour rides in addition to our TSM rides before we left the park, again to go play SOMK, since that's something we could do without waiting in line. We came back to get that third TSM ride (and another go on Star Tours) in near park close and to see the Osborne Lights.

If you want to focus only on the morning/a 4-5 hour block...I'll give you that FP+ wasn't all that inefficient compared to legacy FP. But that's because I used to use and still use smart touring techniques. But when you look at a full park day, you're going to be doing less in a longer period of time. We're not people who will wait in long lines for pretty much anything...pretty much anything over a 30 minute wait is going to be a no-go for us. Why? Because in the past, that was our norm...not having to wait in line for most of what we wanted to do. Sure, we were waiting to use a FP, but that wait included seeing shows, meeting characters, eating, etc. Not standing there in a line.

 

[Laketravis]

Those are more than "slight" drops. Unless we are applying a different standard for drops that we do to increases. If the wait time at SE goes from 10 minutes to 20, that's considered dramatic by some because it's a 100% increase. But, when it drops from 20 to 10, that's a "slight" drop? .

I guess whether they've gone up or down in either park is one of those rabbit hole's another poster was talking about, because that wasn't the original point of showing them.

The wait times at Epcot look low to me, but the wait times at MK do not look like what I would expect on a crowd level 2 day..

NOW we're on the same track - I agree the wait times at MK are not what I would expect to see on a "2" day but don't think the wait times at Epcot representative of a "2" day either.

And I'm not looking for another debate as to whether or not FP+ is responsible for that, so I'll simply defer to EasyWDW for an opinion:

"The website had an extended analysis of how FastPass+ is affecting wait times all the way back in March of last year. The post would be nearly identical if it was written today with the same trends we’ve discussed over the last year continuing. FastPass+ continues to push up wait times at historically secondary attractions, particularly the ones that didn’t previously offer FASTPASS, while at the same time decreasing waits at headlining attractions that have historically seen the longest waits. That is not a debatable statement."


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[edk35]

I am anxious for my dd to give her feedback after her trip this week. Her and her bf arrived today. They will be there a week. Our family has made this same trip, exact week 4 other times in the past years. I KNOW HOW MUCH WE WERE ABLE TO RIDE AND RIDE AND RIDE AND RIDE..... with the old system and using the standby lines. This will be a good way to see how FP+ works for them. We have ONLY been the one time (last Aug.) using the new system. We have gone in Aug. a few times too and last Aug. ...... WE DID NOT GET TO RIDE AND RIDE AND RIDE like in past AUG. trips. The standby lines for rides that used to be minimal, were much longer. PERIOD.

When we go in late March/early April it will be more crowded but even so, we have also done that same exact week TWO OTHER TIMES and although it was more crowded than our Jan. or summer trips...we had NO PROBLEMS riding things more than once.

The FP+ will continue to be argued I guess because we all tour differently and for some people's touring style it works but for ours IT DOESN'T.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I just took a look at the wait times across all the parks, and they don't seem that bad to me for the middle of the day. I also wonder if stranded travelers at Disney are causing crowds to be higher than anticipated.

And surprise! POTC is of course down, again.

 

[edk35]

Most? Less? Not as many? This is all starting to sound like the common-core math that DS has been bringing home:

"If a family of 4 had 3 FP's each, and a family of 7 stayed on-site, how many turkey legs did WDW sell last month?".

 

[TXHauntedMansionFan]

Sooo to answer the OP's question, what has been decided over several pages of responses is really there are very few people who's opinion of FP+ has been changed.

Either you still really don't like the system and can/will tell everyone exactly how screwed up it is..

Or

You really think the system is great and have all kinds of stats as to why you're correct and others are wrong..

It sure doesn't seem like either group will ever see the other's point of view so why go back and forth for page after page arguing with each other on it?

 

[MrInfinity]

FP+ didn't save us time. It may have saved you time, it did not save us time.

Even w a minimal wait for the kiosk, getting FP- tickets did take time to go get. And you now are not having to do that at all.

If you pulled 5 FP- tickets, that means you walked to 5 rides that you did not ride but left and came back to later! That is a big time-sink. Even tho it seems like you're saving time left and right, you're really just spending the time in other ways.

With FP+, I can circle the park once... period. That cutting out of so much of the going to get a ticket -- then going back to use the ticket -- adds up to a lot of extra time you can spend in line for a ride instead.

 

[Hokie2000]

Sooo to answer the OP's question, what has been decided over several pages of responses is really there are very few people who's opinion of FP+ has been changed.

Either you still really don't like the system and can/will tell everyone exactly how screwed up it is..

Or

You really think the system is great and have all kinds of stats as to why you're correct and others are wrong..

It sure doesn't seem like either group will ever see the other's point of view so why go back and forth for page after page arguing with each other on it?

Isn't it obvious? We just can't help ourselves!

I'm guilty, I keep posting on these type of threads even though I know it's rather pointless.

 

[Laketravis]

It sure doesn't seem like either group will ever see the other's point of view so why go back and forth for page after page arguing with each other on it?

Because admittedly, I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to contribute to the Madame Leota thread.

 

[wisblue]

I guess whether they've gone up or down in either park is one of those rabbit hole's another poster was talking about, because that wasn't the original point of showing them.



NOW we're on the same track - I agree the wait times at MK are not what I would expect to see on a "2" day but don't think the wait times at Epcot representative of a "2" day either.

And I'm not looking for another debate as to whether or not FP+ is responsible for that, so I'll simply defer to EasyWDW for an opinion:

"The website had an extended analysis of how FastPass+ is affecting wait times all the way back in March of last year. The post would be nearly identical if it was written today with the same trends we’ve discussed over the last year continuing. FastPass+ continues to push up wait times at historically secondary attractions, particularly the ones that didn’t previously offer FASTPASS, while at the same time decreasing waits at headlining attractions that have historically seen the longest waits. That is not a debatable statement."


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I would invite anyone who is interested to look not just at easywdw's summary of the situation (quoted above), but the more detailed discussion from last March referred to in that post.

Here is the article in which the comment quoted above was included:

http://www.easywdw.com/uncategorize...uary-disney-finds-a-sponsor-12015/#more-15058

and the link to the extended analysis from last March:

http://www.easywdw.com/uncategorize...cting-wait-times-at-disney-world-attractions/

The issue is not whether wait times are longer at some attractions, because that seems indisputable, but by HOW MUCH they have increased at those attractions.

If you want to cite easywdw as a reliable source, then I think you have to take its entire analysis. For example, Josh said in December that average wait times at Pirates of the Caribbean are up 30% and average peak wait times are up 50%.

We all have to decide for ourselves how much an increase of a posted wait time from 10 minutes to 20 minutes or from 30 minutes to 45 minutes is going to bother us. Maybe it means that we have to alter our touring approach to avoid certain attractions when their wait times are at their peaks.