LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Suvadoo]

Most if not all of the comments following that article were negative reviews of FP+.

What I'm noticing on this thread is a lot of posts from people who have never posted on a FP+ thread, and there aren't many people who are satisfied with the current system. I believe Disney has a major problem.

Actually , I apologize. I should've said there are more people disatified with the FP+ system on this thread. I'll use the numbers already provided

17 posters are satified: 39%
20 posters are disatified 46%
6 posters are neutral 13%​

Seems to me this is still a problem.

 

[Shaden]

I just ran across this online article from almost a year ago and was surprised that people are still commenting on it as recently as just five days ago. Most of the comments sound very familiar:

Orlando Weekly

Most if not all of the comments following that article were negative reviews of FP+.

What I'm noticing on this thread is a lot of posts from people who have never posted on a FP+ thread, and there aren't many people who are satisfied with the current system. I believe Disney has a major problem.

[/B]


Aren't perceptions interesting? I perceived 17 of these posts to be positive, 20 negative, and 6 neutral. Which seems to be the same result we've been seeing from different polls.

Ok, you're clearly actually talking about this thread...

I only see 28 comments on the article at the Orlando Weekly ...

On the Article page, of the 28 comments, exactly 1 are positive. 1. There are some repeat posters as well of course, but 1 positive response.

 

[Disneyhappy]

Dissatisfied here. I initially was neutral but after five stays with it, I do not like it. I love planning with the best out there but the hyper planning to the minute is where I draw the line. Also, we have yet to score a fourth FP that we actually wanted in a reasonable time frame that we wanted. Usually it is much later when we have plans to be someplace else. Standbys are longer than we have had to experience in the last 15 years of our multiple times per years visits (we generally don't visit during busy holidays times).The glitches are also a pain, mostly at DHS. We love Disney, own DVC and currently have no trip planned to WDW for 2015 when we usually visit three times per year. This is a first for us. Usually, our year has been totally planned by now. We are going to DL for the first time in March since we will be in CA for a conference. Looking forward to the old FP system that is still in place there for now.

 

[Suvadoo]

Ok, you're clearly actually talking about this thread...

I only see 28 comments on the article at the Orlando Weekly ...

On the Article page, of the 28 comments, exactly 1 are positive. 1. There are some repeat posters as well of course, but 1 positive response.

But this was an old article, so 27 negative comments out of 28 posts is not statistically significant! It's only 96% of the posts.

 

[MrInfinity]

Epcot only has 2 rides that I would normally FP, but because of tiering I can only FP one. IF the headliner I chose to FP goes down, I can not use my FP to ride the other headliner.

This was not the case when we went. If we had a FP to a ride and it wend down due to weather or maintenance, the guy standing at the front entrance gave us two options... 1) he would rebook it on any ride we chose, giving us a new FP to that ride with a set window. Or 2) let the FP expire, and because the ride went down, it would convert to an "Any" Fastpass after that.

If you wanted to use it right away, you had to switch it to something. If you were willing to wait and see if the ride reopened during your return window, you could, w the assurance that if it didn't it would then become an "Any".

So there is no worry about outright losing your FP due to weather or maintenance.

 

[MrInfinity]

My family made several trips to WDW with legacy and we rarely made it to RD. But we never had problems getting FP's for the headliners and we never ran all over the parks. Legacy FP's for TSSM and Soarin' were still available in the late morning or early afternoon. The same can't be said with FP+.

I'm not following your spin here. So you're saying... at HS, under FP-... you could skip RD, show up in the late morning and still have FP available to TSMM. And that is... good?

You'd show up at 11... hope one was available, which admitted on a not too busy day, by 11, there would still be late day TSMMs available... this would be the only fastpass you could pull to a good ride, and you'd get a late day return window. And... that's good.

Now, you can do exactly the same thing, only cut out the wondering about when your return window will be. You can set it up months in advance if you like, you can have your FastPass waiting for you when you get there at 11, no need to wonder if it will be there, or for how late your return time will be, you can ride TSMM in the busiest part of the day if you want, and, have two more FastPasses already pulled for after that.

How is this not worlds better in the scenario you laid out?

Of course "fewer are available"... because -- you've already got it. You don't need it to be available cuz you come to the park with it already in your pocket.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm not following your spin here. So you're saying... at HS, under FP-... you could skip RD, show up in the late morning and still have FP available to TSMM. And that is... good?

You'd show up at 11... hope one was available, which admitted on a not too busy day, by 11, there would still be late day TSMMs available... this would be the only fastpass you could pull to a good ride, and you'd get a late day return window. And... that's good.

Now, you can do exactly the same thing, only cut out the wondering about when your return window will be. You can set it up months in advance if you like, you can have your FastPass waiting for you when you get there at 11, no need to wonder if it will be there, or for how late your return time will be, you can ride TSMM in the busiest part of the day if you want, and, have two more FastPasses already pulled for after that.

How is this not worlds better in the scenario you laid out?

Of course "fewer are available"... because -- you've already got it. You don't need it to be available cuz you come to the park with it already in your pocket.

Perhaps she liked the idea that after pulling a TSMM FP at 11, should could then pull a RnR FP at 1?

 

[ArwenMarie]

I will be very interested to see the reaction in Disneyland CA when they get FP+.

It may turn out that in general, it is received well. I still think there are some benefits for locals who don't feel the urgency to get in as much as they can because they can always come back and who can arrive later in the day and have a few rides booked.

Or it may not be received well.

Will be interesting either way!

 

[MrInfinity]

I think that half of your customers disliking something would normally be seen as significant. I'm not saying that this sampling is scientific but we really don't know what the regular experienced Disney visitor thinks do we? Stats have shown that repeat visitors make up a large portion of attendance at the parks. I know that the prevailing opinion is that repeat visitors don't matter but I personally believe that ALL visitors matter to Disney at least somewhat.

Plano, you have to remember that people who seek out a complaint board to post dislikes of something are not indicative of the general population. So if say...

90% are content and 10% have a complaint, most of those 10% will post, and only a fraction of those who are content will post. Thus you're seeing most of the dislike, and only a few of those who are content w Disney's current operation.

There are some 17 million visitors to the parks, and only around 40 users who post out here regularly about FP+, about half pro and half con. That's 0.0002%, and it's an opt-in sample which is completely not representative.

I remember on thread in which someone who disliked FP+ was annoyed at how Disney came up w their stats of 80% approval or whatever. This person tried to get interviewed by the CMs with clipboards but couldn't. Because they sample guests w/o letting the guests choose to be questioned. By doing this, you get a more representative sampling.

Most guests go and are perfectly happy w Disney World. Most of their analysis doesn't go beyond how the bands are cool and they were awesome for getting them onto rides fast.

Perhaps she liked the idea that after pulling a TSMM FP at 11, should could then pull a RnR FP at 1?

I do not believe that was a consistent experience. If you pulled TSMM at 9 you will get a return around that time. If you got to the park at 11 you would not get such a 12:30 return window, in time to ride this and still pull a RnR. FP- just did not work that way. Perhaps on a rain day or something, anything is possible so I won't say it didn't happen, but I would assert if you claim a viable strategy was to show up at 11 to HS intending to pull FP- to TSMM and RnR that would not be a recommended strategy because it is not likely to work like that.

If you went at 9am, you could possibly get both. But only because you're using your Rope Drop time to get an extra riding, which you can do under FP+.

 

[Shaden]

I'm not following your spin here. So you're saying... at HS, under FP-... you could skip RD, show up in the late morning and still have FP available to TSMM. And that is... good?

You'd show up at 11... hope one was available, which admitted on a not too busy day, by 11, there would still be late day TSMMs available... this would be the only fastpass you could pull to a good ride, and you'd get a late day return window. And... that's good.

Now, you can do exactly the same thing, only cut out the wondering about when your return window will be. You can set it up months in advance if you like, you can have your FastPass waiting for you when you get there at 11, no need to wonder if it will be there, or for how late your return time will be, you can ride TSMM in the busiest part of the day if you want, and, have two more FastPasses already pulled for after that.

How is this not worlds better in the scenario you laid out?

Of course "fewer are available"... because -- you've already got it. You don't need it to be available cuz you come to the park with it already in your pocket.

Perhaps she liked the idea that after pulling a TSMM FP at 11, should could then pull a RnR FP at 1?

Or perhaps she liked not needing to pre-book
Or perhaps she liked being able to wake up at 9 or 10am and just head to that park,
Or perhaps she liked just going with the flow cruising around the parks and picking up FPs where they made sense, adjusting in the moment to the conditions on the ground, not via a smart phone or kiosk to the expected (or guessed) conditions.
Or perhaps she liked that such a large portion of capacity was not dedicated to FPs
Or perhaps she liked that she could pull an FP for TSMM and then enjoy the previously shorter waits on the "middle" attractions
Or perhaps she just enjoyed that all of this was possible, despite what others say ("it was impossible to get TSMM unless you RD'd") and it was possible without any preplanning, or restrictions (tiering), which made her vacation less structured in general.

Of course, perhaps she was also using TSMM because its the one ride that many people who defend or enjoy FP+ have clung to as the only example of why FP+ is superior to legacy FP. Because if we extend this same type of experience to other rides, it is very difficult to argue that FP+ allows you to more access to those rides than the old system did. Sure it allows you to book and -know- you will get 3, subject to tiering, but under legacy FP you likely would have gotten more, and been able to SB more other rides.

And to be fair, many many people here have now reported that they do LESS in the parks. They spend more time at the resorts, or just chilling in the pool or "taking in the sights and sounds" of the parks, and they honestly enjoy that more. That's awesome for them, but there has been a pretty significant consensus here that in general people are getting less done in the parks. Not that it is -impossible- to get as much done as you once did, but that in general, on average, people aren't and aren't going to. For those that works out for, who are happy riding less and spending more time at their resort or just kind of hanging out in the parks, great. But for those who go to WDW for the attractions, and are seeing and experiencing in general fewer attractions, with more planning required, that's a no win situation. And for the record, the other option was always there, people could have always spent more time at the resort, more time just hanging out in the parks, riding less. The net effect seems to be little gain (though for some with some touring styles I am sure they personally, individually see a big gain), and some significant loss (though some people will still bust it out and maximize the hell out of FP+, the overall impact appears to be fewer attractions, longer waits).

 

[Shaden]

I remember on thread in which someone who disliked FP+ was annoyed at how Disney came up w their stats of 80% approval or whatever. This person tried to get interviewed by the CMs with clipboards but couldn't. Because they sample guests w/o letting the guests choose to be questioned. By doing this, you get a more representative sampling.

Unless the people who are deciding who to sample are purposefully only sampling those that seem happy.

I also read here about someone who repeatedly walked by the questioners over a longer trip they weren't enjoying so much and were never asked to answer the questions. Then on a couple occasions when they saw the questioners put on a beaming face, and were indeed asked to respond to the survey. - of course this could just be absolutely random, its one persons' experience.

But there is no reason to assume that their sample selection is more accurate or representative without knowing how they are actually selecting subjects.

I also remember you trying to use a quote where Iger said that the majority of people who used Magic bands rated the experience as positive also meant that they rated FP+ as positive, which is not accurate at all.

I do not believe that was a consistent experience. If you pulled TSMM at 9 you will get a return around that time. If you got to the park at 11 you would not get such a 12:30 return window, in time to ride this and still pull a RnR. FP- just did not work that way. Perhaps on a rain day or something, anything is possible so I won't say it didn't happen, but I would assert if you claim a viable strategy was to show up at 11 to HS intending to pull FP- to TSMM and RnR that would not be a recommended strategy because it is not likely to work like that.

If you went at 9am, you could possibly get both. But only because you're using your Rope Drop time to get an extra riding, which you can do under FP+.

I can tell you that over the last 4 years this was exactly our experience.

I have always thought FP+ probably works best at the busiest times of the year, about, 1/3rd to 1/4th of the year. Though I am seeing some reports that this might not be true, but I have never been on peak days (other than presidents day weekend once) so I can't compare their experiences. They just might be dealing with larger crowds and it might be less FP+'s fault than they think, just like when people go in very low crowds and say FP+ is great because they could do so much, its probably not FP+'s fault either.

But for us, in February and May, we could get to the park after RD, 10 or even 11, shortly after arrival (not even necessarily a bullet to TSMM either !!!) pull an FP for an hour or two later.

And in the other parks this was far more obvious, far greater FP availability, shorter SB wait times. NO need to rush around the parks pulling FPs, just casually go with the flow and get a crap ton done. No phones, no kiosks, no preplanning, shorter SB lines. Wake up and pick a park, head there, tour, SB some stuff, pick up FPs as you go, adjust to the crowds. Park feels too crowded ? Hop to another one, casually walk around, jump in shorter SB lines, pick up FPs as you go.

 

[Laketravis]

Most? Less? Not as many? This is all starting to sound like the common-core math that DS has been bringing home:

"If a family of 4 had 3 FP's each, and a family of 7 stayed on-site, how many turkey legs did WDW sell last month?"

From the 2014 Annual Stockholder's Report, CEO Iger had this to say:

Almost 10 million guests have sported our MagicBands, unlocking a new level of convenience and having more fun in the parks, and they overwhelmingly say the experience is “excellent.”

We can debate all day long how you measure "fun" and to what "experience" he is referring to, ranging from opening the box the bands came in to making the last credit card payment for the trip itself, but I suppose the pundits will claim this as proof that the dissenting opinions found on social media and discussion blogs is completely irrelevant, and this thread will be closed just like the others that didn't contribute to a positive tilt, thus proving an overwhelmingly "excellent" experience by all those who post if only based on the lack of dissenting active threads.

 

[MrInfinity]

Or perhaps she liked not needing to pre-book

Shaden, I think even the most die-hard FP+ fans will accept that yes, it requires some sense of pre-booking. But, when dropping $5k-$10k on a vacation, I'm not just going to show up at the airport. You realize you cannot even go up in the Statue of Liberty nowadays just showing up? You need to buy tix months in advance. Wow was that a surprise when I showed up in NY w my son and couldn't go up in the SOL cuz I assumed it was like it was 20 years ago when I last went. Things change. If you want to do high-demand attractions, anywhere, you need to give it a little forethought.

Or perhaps she liked being able to wake up at 9 or 10am and just head to that park

Maybe, but why can't she? Just... do this!

Or perhaps she liked just going with the flow cruising around the parks and picking up FPs where they made sense, adjusting in the moment to the conditions on the ground, not via a smart phone or kiosk to the expected (or guessed) conditions.

Ok, why not? We did basically this. We would try in general to make our FP windows, but we mostly went w the flow, and even skipped several of our FPs.

Or perhaps she liked that such a large portion of capacity was not dedicated to FPs

Fair enough, FP- was great because only a small subset was allotted, and those, only to a very small group of people, one of which was my family. But as great as that was, it's not realistic to think Disney should continue such an inefficient system that benefits me so much more than the rest of the guests, to where I could ride many times while other guests rode none. It just was not a good system to promote a good experience for all.

Or perhaps she liked that she could pull an FP for TSMM and then enjoy the previously shorter waits on the "middle" attractions

Here, I don't know what to say. You can show up to HS at 11, and have FPs to Star Tours and ToT in pocket... yet... you could ride those... faster... before via standby. No. Standby for ToT was an hour when we went in 2010 and 2012. It just was. Again, save for rain days and such. Now, you can have a FP for it and ride it in 10, then again in an hour if you want to go multiple times.

without any preplanning, or restrictions (tiering), which made her vacation less structured in general.

Again yes, there is a bit more structure... but it is structure which helps cut out wasted time.

the only example of why FP+ is superior to legacy FP. Because if we extend this same type of experience to other rides, it is very difficult to argue that FP+ allows you to more access to those rides than the old system did.

It does not offer YOU more access.. Come on. You. And I. Got way more access by the old system being used mostly by just us. You need to let this go. Those days of FP- being only used by us, and thereby being able to be used extensively by those who chose to, are gone.

However, given that we will still go to WDW, many people are demonstrating that with a little ingenuity, some relearning, and changing old habits, we can get on just as much as before, and even have a better more relaxing time too, despite the added "structure". Adding structure in one place saves you time in others...

I have often reiterated how by having 3 rides guaranteed, it actually frees up a lot of our day to be more spontaneous.

 

[mom2rtk]

I do not believe that was a consistent experience. If you pulled TSMM at 9 you will get a return around that time. If you got to the park at 11 you would not get such a 12:30 return window, in time to ride this and still pull a RnR. FP- just did not work that way. Perhaps on a rain day or something, anything is possible so I won't say it didn't happen, but I would assert if you claim a viable strategy was to show up at 11 to HS intending to pull FP- to TSMM and RnR that would not be a recommended strategy because it is not likely to work like that.

If you went at 9am, you could possibly get both. But only because you're using your Rope Drop time to get an extra riding, which you can do under FP+.

OK. You don't believe it. I do.

We never had trouble getting RnR FPs deep into the day. Maybe I don't believe they were every consistently gone as early as you say. Now what?

Or perhaps she liked not needing to pre-book
Or perhaps she liked being able to wake up at 9 or 10am and just head to that park,
Or perhaps she liked just going with the flow cruising around the parks and picking up FPs where they made sense, adjusting in the moment to the conditions on the ground, not via a smart phone or kiosk to the expected (or guessed) conditions.
Or perhaps she liked that such a large portion of capacity was not dedicated to FPs
Or perhaps she liked that she could pull an FP for TSMM and then enjoy the previously shorter waits on the "middle" attractions
Or perhaps she just enjoyed that all of this was possible, despite what others say ("it was impossible to get TSMM unless you RD'd") and it was possible without any preplanning, or restrictions (tiering), which made her vacation less structured in general.

Of course, perhaps she was also using TSMM because its the one ride that many people who defend or enjoy FP+ have clung to as the only example of why FP+ is superior to legacy FP. Because if we extend this same type of experience to other rides, it is very difficult to argue that FP+ allows you to more access to those rides than the old system did. Sure it allows you to book and -know- you will get 3, subject to tiering, but under legacy FP you likely would have gotten more, and been able to SB more other rides.

Well, there's that..........

 

[jtowntoflorida]

This was not the case when we went. If we had a FP to a ride and it wend down due to weather or maintenance, the guy standing at the front entrance gave us two options... 1) he would rebook it on any ride we chose, giving us a new FP to that ride with a set window. Or 2) let the FP expire, and because the ride went down, it would convert to an "Any" Fastpass after that.

I don't know if you got pixie dusted or what, but we've NEVER had a CM offer to rebook us on anything we chose if there were technical issues with a ride. In fact, on our December trip, POTC was down during our FP+ window (because it was down pretty much the entire week) and I complained to the CM standing in front of the ride about the choices we were given to use for the "anytime" FP+...it was our last day, we had to leave the park in an hour to catch DME, and we simply didn't want to ride any of the rides that we were offered. He didn't offer to help us in any way (in fact, he had no iPad, so I'm not sure how he could have) but instead tried to convince us that Jingle Cruise was an acceptable substitute. Um, no. Just no. I wasn't asking for 7DMT or A&E, a Splash or BTMRR would have made us happy. Instead, we left the park on a low note.

I do not believe that was a consistent experience. If you pulled TSMM at 9 you will get a return around that time. If you got to the park at 11 you would not get such a 12:30 return window, in time to ride this and still pull a RnR. FP- just did not work that way. Perhaps on a rain day or something, anything is possible so I won't say it didn't happen, but I would assert if you claim a viable strategy was to show up at 11 to HS intending to pull FP- to TSMM and RnR that would not be a recommended strategy because it is not likely to work like that.

All of our trips were in October under legacy FP. We'd pull a TSM FP at RD and it typically had a return window of 9:40-10:40. So at 9:40 we could pull another FP, which we would always use again on TSM because we had a little kid who couldn't ride any of the height restricted rides. The 9:40 TSM FP typically had a return window of early afternoon (12:30 to about 2:00, somewhere in that range). At 11:40, we'd pull another FP (also for TSM) and get an early evening (around 5:00) return window. You can't tell me that all the RNR FPs were sold out by 11:40, when TSM FPs were still available. So you could absolutely ride both TSM and RNR with a FP, even with an 11:00 arrival. RNR simply didn't sell out its same day FPs back under the legacy system.


As for the original question, I have changed my mind. When the idea was first presented, I LOVED it. I thought all the naysayers were being hysterical wet blankets. The possibilities of the system seemed endless, and as a planner, I thought it would be great! The reality of the experience is what changed my mind. Booking 60 days out is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is that some attractions have limited availability even 60 days out! You have to learn how to manipulate the system to get certain attractions at the times you want, and then spend hours stalking MDE to find slots as they open. Again, I'm an uber planner, so it was frustrating for me to have my plans upset by lack of FP+s at the times I wanted them. And the same day availability is total crap. The system simply doesn't live up to its potential because there are too few attractions for too many guests.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Also, I am curious if the people that like FP+ are avid planners. For instance, I love Touring Plans and wouldn't dream of doing a park without a personalized plan from their site. This sort of thing lends itself very well to a system like FP+. If you were already planning on being at a ride at a certain time, that time is now your FP+ window. I'm in the like FP+ camp, but it isn't very different from what I have always done.

Most of my friends and family would consider me an avid planner, but I've never taken planning to the level of touring plans' personalized plans. Well, I shouldn't say never...I tried to once, and it was summarily rejected by my family as too regimented. I haven't done it since (and we never felt we needed to either). I'm thinking I may need to use Touring Plans that way again, though, to address the wide variety of things our extended family will want to accomplish in November. I'm not looking forward to that discussion with my family, TBH.

 

[Laketravis]

I remember on thread in which someone who disliked FP+ was annoyed at how Disney came up w their stats of 80% approval or whatever. This person tried to get interviewed by the CMs with clipboards but couldn't. Because they sample guests w/o letting the guests choose to be questioned. By doing this, you get a more representative sampling..

I remember that thread. I think the point was made that if you smiled at one of those CM's with clipboards, your chances of being stopped and asked questions were greatly increased.

There are also a lot of numbers in that source you are referring to, and the market interprets them multiple ways depending on what their motivations are. If you are long on Disney, you'll point to the fact that domestic park attendance was up a whopping 3% last year. And if you are short on Disney, you'll argue that the increase in park attendance was down from the year before.

Regardless, this thread contains responses from posters who both like FP+, don't like FP+, and have no opinion either way. It's simple enough for most people to read those responses and draw their own conclusions.

 

[Angel Ariel]

You'd show up at 11... hope one was available, which admitted on a not too busy day, by 11, there would still be late day TSMMs available... this would be the only fastpass you could pull to a good ride, and you'd get a late day return window. And... that's good.

Why would it be the "only FP you could pull to a good ride"? Star Tours always had legacy FP IME. We usually got 2-3 FPs just for Star Tours. They were always available, and never for very far in the future. We never saw TOT or RNRC run out either. Certainly not by 1pm, which would be when you could pull another FP if TSMM had been pulled at 11am.

How is this not worlds better in the scenario you laid out?

It isn't worlds better for us because those 2-3 Star Tours FP we used to get wasn't possible. Nor is it possible to get a second FP for TOT. At 3:15pm when we went to get a 4th FP+, there were no more ST or TOT left for the day. The park didn't close til 8pm. We never had that issue under legacy. One of our favorite memories was riding TOT 3 times in less than 1 hr using 2 FPs and 1 standby ride. We did not find that to be possible on our trip this year.

Was it nice to come into DHS and go ride TSMM right away? Yep. I'm not going to say it wasn't. But did we miss the FPs we used to get for ST and TOT? Yep, we did. DH is a *huge* Star Wars fan, and Star Tours is specifically built for multiple rides since it's update. We loved being able to ride it 4-5 times in a short span of time in 2013. That wasn't possible in 2014.Yes, SB was an option, but (as opposed to on previous trips where the wait was like 10 mins), SB for ST was - when we saw it - more like 30. Not a bad wait for 1 ride, but not one I'm going to wait in 4-5 times.

So, for us, the benefit of being able to ride TSMM once doesn't outweigh the negative of not having that FP availability for Star Tours or TOT.

 

[MrInfinity]

I don't know if you got pixie dusted or what, but we've NEVER had a CM offer to rebook us on anything we chose if there were technical issues with a ride.

Wow! Interesting. Maybe we were pixie dusted.

All of our trips were in October under legacy FP. We'd pull a TSM FP at RD and it typically had a return window of 9:40-10:40. So at 9:40 we could pull another FP, which we would always use again on TSM because we had a little kid who couldn't ride any of the height restricted rides. The 9:40 TSM FP typically had a return window of early afternoon (12:30 to about 2:00, somewhere in that range). At 11:40, we'd pull another FP (also for TSM) and get an early evening (around 5:00) return window. You can't tell me that all the RNR FPs were sold out by 11:40, when TSM FPs were still available. So you could absolutely ride both TSM and RNR with a FP, even with an 11:00 arrival. RNR simply didn't sell out its same day FPs back under the legacy system.

So in summary, your experience was...
RD... pull TSMM FP- 9:00-9:15
Standby ride TSMM, 9:15-9:45
pull TSMM FP- 9:45-10:00
Fastpass ride TSMM 10:00-10:30
At 12:30, see what's left. Which won't be much. Use your FP to TSMM.

So you've spent your entire morning riding TSMM and by 10:30 you've ridden it twice and have a midday return for it in pocket. Can't you do that now?

9:00-9:20 no kiosk go straight to TSMM. Ride.
9:20-10:10 ride TSMM standby, 50 min.

It's now 10:10, and you've ridden it twice, and you have a FP+ to it on your band for midday, and you have FP+'s to Star Tours and ToT also queued up for later.

So now later...

EVEN IF you were able to get a FP- to RR at 12:30, which was not in any way guaranteed, that would get you on one more ride. But riding Star Tours and ToT you'd do standby, at 20 min and 50 min. So instead you're saving the 20 min and 50 min, and waiting an hour later for RR but riding the other two by FP+.

It is completely a wash in terms of time spent, and I think, you actually would do a bit better under FP+.

* You get done w 2 ridings of TSMM earlier in the day.

* You have FP+ for it for midday for sure, not "whenever" which you say would be a 12:30, but that's only by chance. Your 3rd pull could have been for much later.

* You have two other rides queued up, plus a 3rd riding of TSMM.

* It is all relatively certain to get on, whereas w FP- it was pretty much "maybe".

See you're not factoring in that you're not waiting for FP- tickets at all. This is some significant time saved. The TSMM FP- queue built up fast!

 

[Angel Ariel]

I do not believe that was a consistent experience. If you pulled TSMM at 9 you will get a return around that time. If you got to the park at 11 you would not get such a 12:30 return window, in time to ride this and still pull a RnR. FP- just did not work that way. Perhaps on a rain day or something, anything is possible so I won't say it didn't happen, but I would assert if you claim a viable strategy was to show up at 11 to HS intending to pull FP- to TSMM and RnR that would not be a recommended strategy because it is not likely to work like that.

If you went at 9am, you could possibly get both. But only because you're using your Rope Drop time to get an extra riding, which you can do under FP+.

How is it not a consistent experience? If you pulled a FP at 11am - for ANY ride, TSMM included, the rules of legacy were that you couldn't pull another oe until *either* of the following happened:

1. The return window opened
OR
2. 2 hrs later

whichever came *first*.

So anyone pulling a TSMM FP at 11am could pull another FP either when their return window opened OR at 1pm - whichever one came first. As you've indicated, by 11am they'd be likely to be evening return times, but they'd be able to pull another FP at 1pm.

IME, the only thing in DHS that ran out of FP by 1pm was TSMM.