LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[lauradis]

I have to tell you, I don't understand your post at all.

But I'll go with that I think you're saying and you're free to correct me.

I'm mostly confused because you're telling me I can't say things I didn't say so I don't see your point.

Most visitor in last 1.5 years have been experiencing glitchy behavior not just with messed up sb times, but with MDE app, MB programming going wonky.

All that I posted was what we experienced in Oct 2013 trip.. so if everything worked perfectly with FP+ MB you got lucky, because that didn't happen for all visitors.

 

[lauradis]

I have to tell you, I don't understand your post at all.

But I'll go with that I think you're saying and you're free to correct me.

I'm mostly confused because you're telling me I can't say things I didn't say so I don't see your point.

Say what ever you want, I like personal feed back it helps me to plan.

 

[JimmyV]

After reading threads on trip advisor on the things to do in Orlando( we have newbie friends going down and this is how I got to spend my Sat. night....lol) I think you can add to this that the "majority" also still doesn't know/understand how fp+ works. Interestingly one of the complaints of FP- was that most/many didn't get it. I was amazed to see how many don't get fp+. Comments like "you can book 3 in advance and only 1 more at the huge lines at the kiosk" , "onsite gets 30 days in advance and offsite at the park", or people who thought that it was a pay system etc. etc. etc. I would say that somewhere around 25% or more had something explained in error. Some loved, more hated but what stood out were the misconceptions and that imho is a real problem for Disney. In reality it is one thing to like/dislike something when you understand it but it was clear that there were so many who didn't get it at all (and by that I mean were flat out wrong in terms of how to use the system). I get that Disney is sending out emails to onsite visitors but the material is not working because the comments were both from on and offsite. I know this is not directly on point but just some interesting food for the fodder no matter which side of the love/hate relationship you're on.

This is actually very much on point. Here on the Dis we spend way too much time navel gazing and musing about "some", "most", "the majority", etc., when in fact we are the 2% when it comes to Disney. What really matters is what the rest of the world perceives and does, and how they react. We have no idea. But when one consults sources other than this Board, it becomes clearer that much confusion abounds. As well as acceptance and approval. As for the rookies whom I have helped in the past year, the term "deer in the headlights" comes to mind.

I get the point, I think the point has no merit.

Actually, the point has tremendous validity. If 10,000 people all line up to voice a complaint with customer service and all 10,000 are "wrong" and simply didn't understand something, then there is a problem. No one could assume that under these conditions, management wouldn't go back to square one and concede that something has to change. Perhaps not the system in question, but certainly on how it is viewed and understood. The adage "perception becomes reality" springs to mind. If something is perceived to suck, then it sucks. Even if it doesn't.

 

[cakebaker]

Most visitor in last 1.5 years have been experiencing glitchy behavior not just with messed up sb times, but with MDE app, MB programming going wonky.

All that I posted was what we experienced in Oct 2013 trip.. so if everything worked perfectly with FP+ MB you got lucky, because that didn't happen for all visitors.

Maybe you're just unlucky. But really, it has nothing to do with luck. You keep posting stuff I never say- I didn't say it all worked perfectly. I said I was pleased with the results. But I'm done discussing whether my opinion of fp+ is based on whether I was lucky or not. That's a new one I haven't heard before and it's silly to debate such a thing.

 

[cakebaker]

"Actually, the point has tremendous validity."

Perhaps to you, not to me.

 

[flicx]

Wow after reading through some of these posts I am worried. We have our first FP+ trip coming up in July. We too feel like we had a really good FP- system mapped out and didn't really wait in many lines much on our trips. I am really sad to hear that lines are longer now. Why is that? Because more people are using FP? We take short trips (2 days) due to cost and we will be quite disappointed if we can't do all of the things we used to do. Spreading things out through more days really isn't a financial option for so many people...I am sure there are many, like us, that maximize every day of park tickets we have by being in the park.

Anyway, I still have more research to do to get the best plan but I am now concerned. I would think that making FP+ for mid afternoon, when crowds seem to be highest, makes the most sense, but it sounds like our old strategy of being there at rope drop and enjoying low lines for the first 1.5 hours is not possible any more.

There are many people like you who do shorter trips due to cost. I hope you get some luck and catch a good few days for your trip. You'll have to let us know how you make out. There are a lot of us who take shorter trips that will be interested!

 

[Luckybee]

"Actually, the point has tremendous validity."

Perhaps to you, not to me.

This shouldn't surprise anyone !

 

[cakebaker]

This shouldn't surprise anyone !

I would hope not. We're going to assume that 10k people will show up at once to complain about something- when someone comes up with a scenario that is even remotely likely to happen, then I'll pay attention.

 

[JimmyV]

"Actually, the point has tremendous validity."

Perhaps to you, not to me.

Do you have no appreciation for the concept of "customer relations"? Remember this ditty:

Customers are "wrong" all the time. But if vast numbers of them are wrong but can't figure out why, then somewhere along the chain of command, there is a problem that needs to be fixed. It's great to be "right, in a vacuum". But if you stay too long in that vacuum, you will die.

 

[cakebaker]

if vast numbers of them are wrong

IF...there's the catch- and it's all hypothetical since these 10k are not at guest relations. When they are, then it's worth discussing. I tire of the "wait till" scenarios.

 

[JimmyV]

IF...there's the catch- and it's all hypothetical since these 10k are not at guest relations. When they are, then it's worth discussing. I tire of the "wait till" scenarios.

You are ignoring "virtual" guest relations (i.e., customer service email) and sites such as TripAdvisor or Yelp, etc. Every person who voices a complaint on TripAdvisor is equal to (if not more important than) a person physically in line at Guest Relations. If you think that the only complainers who count are the ones at GR on Main Street, then you really need a lesson in e-commerce. A complaint on TripAdvisor is a real big deal. Head on over there and see if there are as many unicorns and rainbows as there are here. I will warn you that there are some real head scratchers over there. You will no doubt find yourself saying: "What is this guy talking about? He is all wrong." But the point is, it doesn't matter. The complaint is the complaint. And other newbies are reading it and believing it.

 

[Southern Bell]

It is a love hate relationship for me! LOL! As much as I like to plan, it feels like a lot more of deciding what park what day, what time, and I find easier to not have any dining reservations. So...I found it easier to use the Quick Service Dining last fall, and just have to worry about the fast pass times. LOL! We ate a couple of nice dinners cheaper, better and outside Disney when we wanted , too. I like plans but not every minute planned of the day. LOL!

We (my husband) loved not having to run ahead and get the fast pass! It was also nice to not always have to count on getting to the park at 8am. But when you had Epcot tiering and only 1 choice out of the two you wanted.... that eliminated sleeping in and we were out the door early. We did not find the fast pass hard to use once we decided what we wanted to do! LOL! I think This was easier with just the two of us than it will be with all our family next summer. For instance we had no Character meet and greets, but will have plenty this summer.

We made changes during the week, when needed. I had trouble with my phone working at Animal Kingdom, but I was helped at one of the Kiosks, with no line.(yay) I found it easier than I thought it would be to switch fast pass plans the week we were at Disney, but we were there after labor day, kids were back in school. This summer (over July 4th)I have made some character dining reservations for my grandchildren and wonder how that is going to work out with the fast pass later. I've left some days without any dining reservations in case dining is a problem.

I wonder if it will be as easy to switch fast pass or add that extra 4th as it was in September. I wish I could make the dining reservations and the Fast pass at the same time. Sometimes the 3rd fast pass was useless. But... I had to use 3 to get back to the 4th or be able to use that 4th in another park. We figured if nothing was there you wanted, get to a show, go by and scan it, leave... go to the next park. You don't have to see it.. just scan it.LOL!

At the first of the week we used it alot, But...By the end of the week we had done most of what we wanted, and was nice to just go and enjoy our vacation at our leisure, without it.
But I am looking forward to use it again for my younger grandchildren and the rides and characters they want to see. I think it will definetley help with the lines but hope by the end of the week we need it less! LOL!

So... It is a love hate relationship for me! LOL!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You are ignoring "virtual" guest relations (i.e., customer service email) and sites such as TripAdvisor or Yelp, etc. Every person who writes a bad review or has a complaint on TripAdvisor is equal to (if not more important than) a person physically in line at Guest Relations. If you think that the only complainers who count are the ones at GR on Main Street, then you really need a lesson in e-commerce. A bad review on TripAdvisor is a real big deal. Head on over there and see if there are as many unicorns and rainbows as there are here. I will warn you that there are some real head scratchers over there. You will no doubt find yourself saying: "What is this guy talking about? He is all wrong." But the point is, it doesn't matter. The complaint is the complaint. And other newbies are reading it and believing it.

Then there is the net collective value of all those reports. If the business (any business) has 4.5 stars and 10,000 reviews, and the bad reviews are sprinkled throughout, those would be anomalies.

On the flip side if the business has 1.5 stars and 10,000 reviews, the good reviews would be anomalies.

So let's take a look:
Magic Kingdom 4.5/5 rating and over 21,000 reviews:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...95-Reviews-Magic_Kingdom-Orlando_Florida.html

EPCOT, 4.5/5 over 7900 reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34515-d126541-Reviews-Epcot-Orlando_Florida.html

DHS, 4.5/5.0 over 9800 reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...sney_s_Hollywood_Studios-Orlando_Florida.html

Animal Kingdom, 4.5/5.0, over. 12,000 reviews.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...-Disney_s_Animal_Kingdom-Orlando_Florida.html

This isn't to say that a bad review means nothing.

If I am reviewing anything on yelp or trip advisor, of the large majority of people are having a great or very good experiences, I would consider that a sign of the norm. I will review bad reviews to see what was up--a lot of times they are valid but not deal breakers. Others are exaggerations. Others are false expectations like the European being discussed on the resort board who came to America expecting food like home and expected things to be more fair for him at the Grand Floridian.

Perhaps it is you who does not understand these reviews. If 99 people are happy and you decide to believe the 1 disgruntled customer as the norm, not much an be done to convince you otherwise.


ETA: to be fair, I did check IOA and USO and they shared similar ratings.
IOA 4.5, 19K+ reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...l_s_Islands_of_Adventure-Orlando_Florida.html

USO 4.5/5.0, 11K+ reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...niversal_Studios_Florida-Orlando_Florida.html


And while we are at it
Busch Gardens 4.5/6K reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34678-d107648-Reviews-Busch_Gardens-Tampa_Florida.html

Sea World, 4.5/14K reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...Reviews-SeaWorld_Orlando-Orlando_Florida.html

 

[JimmyV]

But we're not talking about ratings. We are talking about user comprehension. A user can be clueless about how the system works. and complain about it, citing to all sorts of misinformation (or real information) and still provide a 4 or 5 star rating. Lack of comprehension and high ratings are independent of one another. I have no doubt that WDW's overall ratings are off the charts no matter what source one looks at.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But we're not talking about ratings. We are talking about user comprehension. A user can be clueless about how the system works. and complain about it, citing to all sorts of misinformation (or real information) and still provide a 4 or 5 star rating. Lack of comprehension and high ratings are independent of one another. I have no doubt that WDW's overall ratings are off the charts no matter what source one looks at.

You were talking about reviews. Which help to make the ratings.

You are trying very hard to insult the average guest to support your opinion. It seems you don't understand that people are not as clueless as you would like to believe.

But it seems you have flip flopped on how those bad reviews mean everything to--those good reviews mean nothing.

 

[JimmyV]

See here: http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g34515-i19-k6029632-Fast_pass_plus-Orlando_Florida.html
And make sure to order the posts in reverse chronological order so that you are not reading the ones from 2013. This is not offered to establish the "good" or the "bad". But it is a resource that people will stumble upon. It is full of misinformation and half-truths. LT's point has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the complaints. Only that the complaints are out there. And if they are out there, it behooves the company in question to do something about people being so darn confused.

 

[JimmyV]

You were talking about reviews.

No. LT's post was about complaints. And the customer being right. And confusion being important even if the confusion is misplaced. If that was unclear, I will go back and make it clear.

Here is where I started. It is about complaints.

If 10,000 people all line up to voice a complaint with customer service and all 10,000 are "wrong" and simply didn't understand something, then there is a problem. No one could assume that under these conditions, management wouldn't go back to square one and concede that something has to change. Perhaps not the system in question, but certainly on how it is viewed and understood. The adage "perception becomes reality" springs to mind. If something is perceived to suck, then it sucks. Even if it doesn't.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

See here: http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g34515-i19-k6029632-Fast_pass_plus-Orlando_Florida.html
And make sure to order the posts in reverse chronological order so that you are not reading the ones from 2013. This is not offered to establish the "good" or the "bad". But it is a resource that people will stumble upon. It is full of misinformation and half-truths. LT's point has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the complaints. Only that the complaints are out there. And if they are out there, it behooves the company in question to do something about people being so darn confused.

53 posts? Fifty-three?

That is your litmus?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No. LT's post was about complaints. And the customer being right. And confusion being important even if the confusion is misplaced. If that was unclear, I will go back and make it clear.

I am responding to you.

 

[AustinTink]

Then there is the net collective value of all those reports. If the business (any business) has 4.5 stars and 10,000 reviews, and the bad reviews are sprinkled throughout, those would be anomalies.

On the flip side if the business has 1.5 stars and 10,000 reviews, the good reviews would be anomalies.

So let's take a look:
Magic Kingdom 4.5/5 rating and over 21,000 reviews:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...95-Reviews-Magic_Kingdom-Orlando_Florida.html

EPCOT, 4.5/5 over 7900 reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34515-d126541-Reviews-Epcot-Orlando_Florida.html

DHS, 4.5/5.0 over 9800 reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...sney_s_Hollywood_Studios-Orlando_Florida.html

Animal Kingdom, 4.5/5.0, over. 12,000 reviews.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...-Disney_s_Animal_Kingdom-Orlando_Florida.html

This isn't to say that a bad review means nothing.

If I am reviewing anything on yelp or trip advisor, of the large majority of people are having a great or very good experiences, I would consider that a sign of the norm. I will review bad reviews to see what was up--a lot of times they are valid but not deal breakers. Others are exaggerations. Others are false expectations like the European being discussed on the resort board who came to America expecting food like home and expected things to be more fair for him at the Grand Floridian.

Perhaps it is you who does not understand these reviews. If 99 people are happy and you decide to believe the 1 disgruntled customer as the norm, not much an be done to convince you otherwise.


ETA: to be fair, I did check IOA and USO and they shared similar ratings.
IOA 4.5, 19K+ reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...l_s_Islands_of_Adventure-Orlando_Florida.html

USO 4.5/5.0, 11K+ reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...niversal_Studios_Florida-Orlando_Florida.html


And while we are at it
Busch Gardens 4.5/6K reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g34678-d107648-Reviews-Busch_Gardens-Tampa_Florida.html

Sea World, 4.5/14K reviews
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...Reviews-SeaWorld_Orlando-Orlando_Florida.html

Those ratings and reviews are an average dating back to 2003. There are more than a sprinkling of negative reviews that have been posted over the last year. And of those recent negative reviews, most mention fastpasses and wait times in standby lines. That is what is relevant to this discussion, not their 12-year average.