LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[BugsDaddy]

Generally true. But when you wave your magic wand and raise ticket prices, you haven't incurred any corresponding overhead increases. It is pure revenue with no cost icrease.

Well, yes. Raising ticket prices doesn't increase cost. I don't think that is what I was saying. Costs can increase all by themselves for more reasons than anyone can list here. What I am saying is that you cannot associate price increases directly with increases in the bottom line without looking at costs. If costs were the same, then you can assume that 100% of the price increase went to the bottom line. If costs increase, a portion of the price increase went to offset the cost increase.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Hi Josh,
In case you didn't know, the "limiting" as you call it on E-ticket rides is because Soarin and Test Track (the 2 e-ticket rides at epcot) can handle a combined 30,000 guests. There are 50,000 guests at Epcot in a day.

So. Even if you give out 2/3 of the ridings as Fastpass, that is only 20,000 passes to go around, to 50,000 guests. So even if every guest gets exactly 1, 30,000 guests will still get none. If you wish to remove tiering (aka get 2 for yourself) then you must be able to point to some guest (or class of guest) that you feel should not get any in trade.

That is the problem. Before, if you pulled 3... if even 5,000 guests pulled 3... that is it! Done. Nobody else gets any. 15,000 FP's down the drain to 5,000 out of 50,000 guests. Yeah, I was one of the 5,000. I was cool. You probly were too. So, they raise the distribution from 15,000 to 20,000, and limit guests to 1 each. There is still not enough to go around.

So seriously. If you really think Tiering should not be applied, then you should be able to say which guests you think should get 2 or 3 each and which guests should get none.

I don't love Tiering... In fact I'd love to get 3 or 4 FP's to Soarin and TT, myself. But by doing the math I see why it's there.

The choice isn't between rationing or not rationing rides. The choice is between rationing rides or building more ride capacity.

 

[MrInfinity]

The choice isn't between rationing or not rationing rides. The choice is between rationing rides or building more ride capacity.

It's not really. There are 50,000 guests already there and the park is packed wall to wall every day. Each buying admission, food, maybe a hotel. Rides are the carrot. You build rides when your parks are not drawing the people. Epcot is drawing the people. People flock to Epcot from the world over, despite there being only 2 headliners here. Go figure. I'm going to Epcot. I will have a blast, and while sure, it'd be great if they had 10 headliners, 10 headliners would raise their maintenance cost 5x and get... about the same number of guests thru the parks. Adding rides is a simple mathematical decision. Not filling your park? You add a ride. Filling your park? You do not need to add a ride. I assure you if Rasulo, Staggs, Iger, and co thought adding a ride would bring more guests' worth of money than the ride would cost, they would add it. I'm guessing instead, the lackluster "conversion" of Maelstrom to Frozen will instead make many more princesses thrilled, elated, etc, to ride the Frozen ride, at a minimal expense, than my desire to ride a roller coaster will bring. Think about it. I'm willing to drop $5k on a vacation to take my DD to Disney to meet a teenager dressed as Elsa, but I won't drop $200 to take her to Six Flags where they have tons of E-ticket rides in a single park. Disney is doing something right.....

 

[BugsDaddy]

The choice isn't between rationing or not rationing rides. The choice is between rationing rides or building more ride capacity.

They are investing in new rides. Just because it is not all in the Magic Kingdom park or has yet to be announced does not mean that it is not being worked. What's wrong with investing in both new technology and new rides? The truth is that there needs to be a combined strategy in order to increase the rate of return on investment. You need to be able to increase capacity while being able to control and monitor access in such a way that is beneficial to providing their customer base with the things the customer wants (as proven by their continuing to support the brand and the parks) as well as benefiting the company's bottom line.

 

[BugsDaddy]

It's not really. There are 50,000 guests already there and the park is packed wall to wall every day. Each buying admission, food, maybe a hotel. Rides are the carrot. You build rides when your parks are not drawing the people. Epcot is drawing the people. People flock to Epcot from the world over, despite there being only 2 headliners here. Go figure. I'm going to Epcot. I will have a blast, and while sure, it'd be great if they had 10 headliners, 10 headliners would raise their maintenance cost 5x and get... about the same number of guests thru the parks. Adding rides is a simple mathematical decision. Not filling your park? You add a ride. Filling your park? You do not need to add a ride. I assure you if Rasulo, Staggs, Iger, and co thought adding a ride would bring more guests' worth of money than the ride would cost, they would add it. I'm guessing instead, the lackluster "conversion" of Maelstrom to Frozen will instead make many more princesses thrilled, elated, etc, to ride the Frozen ride, at a minimal expense, than my desire to ride a roller coaster will bring. Think about it. I'm willing to drop $5k on a vacation to take my DD to Disney to meet a teenager dressed as Elsa, but I won't drop $200 to take her to Six Flags where they have tons of E-ticket rides in a single park. Disney is doing something right.....

I will also say that Universal started to really prosper when they got away from the concept of just filling their parks with thrill ride after thrill ride (making themselves a very expensive six flags) and hiring away Disney Imagineers to begin to create a more themed environment (Harry Potter).

Disney's brand is extremely strong and may only be second to Apple in the world. People are not necessarily coming to Disney to ride the latest and greatest roller coaster or to ride 50 rides a day. They are coming to be immersed in the "magic" which Disney still provides better than anyone else out there.

 

[edk35]

The other day I texted my son (in college) and asked him what color magic band he wanted since he decided a week ago to join us next month. He has not been to Disney with us since the magic bands happened. I sent him a screenshot of the colors to choose from and his reply was: "Orange, that's how we unlock the doors right instead of the plastic cards?" So I somewhat explained what all they were for and he then said...."Do they come with light sabers?" "Jesus what is wrong with Disney now?" This was after I asked him what three rides at MK he preferred on his arrival day. Which he replied "I have to choose three?" "This is stupid now"

 

[JanaDee]

I agree with this. We are told by many WDW guests that, (with the exception of A&E), "everything is available, even just a few days in advance." Taking them at their word, then people who opt to go to DLR with little or no advance warning should be able to book pretty much everything they want. And with only a few thousand on site guests to compete with, assuming that DLR implements the same 60/30 booking windows, the real race for space will come at 30 days, not 60. In reality, the vast majority of FPs would likely be booked within 7 days of use. The system should work like a charm at DLR. Which makes me wonder why it is taking them so long to implement it. Logistics? Money? IT issues? Fear of negative backlash from DLR loyalists?

I think it is because DLR is much more a locals park than WDW is and they'd have a revolt on their hands if they suggested having to make ride reservations weeks in advance.

 

[kbelle8995]

The other day I texted my son (in college) and asked him what color magic band he wanted since he decided a week ago to join us next month. He has not been to Disney with us since the magic bands happened. I sent him a screenshot of the colors to choose from and his reply was: "Orange, that's how we unlock the doors right instead of the plastic cards?" So I somewhat explained what all they were for and he then said...."Do they come with light sabers?" "Jesus what is wrong with Disney now?" This was after I asked him what three rides at MK he preferred on his arrival day. Which he replied "I have to choose three?" "This is stupid now"

I like your son's reactions. MB's would be so much more exciting if Lighsabers were included though. What an idea. I would actually get a magic band if lightsabers were included.

 

[JimmyV]

I think it is because DLR is much more a locals park than WDW is and they'd have a revolt on their hands if they suggested having to make ride reservations weeks in advance.

But if FP+ is such an improvement, wouldn't its implementation overcome the revolt? And wouldn't the revolutionaries be written off as "the 10% whiners" who are trying to drown out all the positive commentary? If FP+ is a technological leap that benefits both Disney and its guests, then surely it should be able to benefit locals as well as guests who travel from a distance. If not, then the system isn't as good as advertised, right?

 

[draybook]

It's 60 days, not 45- and that's the best on site perk ever! It lets me get the toughest fp's with no worries! Love it!

Funny about the CM story- I've never experienced anything but very positive attitudes from the CM's at the kiosks. Very helpful, pleasant and seemed quite satisfied with the system. Perhaps they're just feeding back the attitude they get.

Oh yeah, 60 days. So you have to do even more planning. That's such a great trait about going on "vacation". And I don't know if it's the attitude they get, but I'd imagine that having to deal with thousands of non-English speaking or confused/indecisive guests would get old quick.

 

[JimmyV]

but I'd imagine that having to deal with thousands of non-English speaking or confused/indecisive guests would get old quick.

We noticed a particular "tic" amongst all of the CMs who had to deal with the confused and frustrated, and we called it "the Cast Member eye roll". And it really had nothing to do with English versus non-English speakers. The frustration level will surely dissipate over time. But for now, the CM reaction to all of this was obvious and palpable.

 

[kbelle8995]

I think it is because DLR is much more a locals park than WDW is and they'd have a revolt on their hands if they suggested having to make ride reservations weeks in advance.

It would be interesting to see their reaction. I don't think that there were be a big revolt but small one.

I don't see the CM reaction going away. System can be complicated for some and having to explain that day in and day out can be well annoying. You will always have new visitors who have no idea how this works. For an example check out the Dining plan.

 

[mom2rtk]

We noticed a particular "tic" amongst all of the CMs who had to deal with the confused and frustrated, and we called it "the Cast Member eye roll". And it really had nothing to do with English versus non-English speakers. The frustration level will surely dissipate over time. But for now, the CM reaction to all of this was obvious and palpable.

While the frustration might fall off a bit, how does that happen in large numbers if WDW is mostly first time visitors?

 

[JimmyV]

While the frustration might fall off a bit, how does that happen in large numbers if WDW is mostly first time visitors?

Hmmmm. So the Disney vets who know the ropes will always be able to take advantage of the system and get the better of clueless nubes. Where have I heard this before?

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't think you are in the minority. I think a lot of people who are capable of making the technology work for them are enjoying the same success.

Paper fast passes were on their way out, FP+ or not. It was just a matter of what system would replace it. Digital everything is the future. Either people adapt or they get left behind. Some people have a hard time giving up things that are comfortable for them. Technology isn't comfortable for everyone.

And there's the other half of the "if you don't like FP+, it's because you don't like change" critique. It's the "if you don't like FP+, it's because you aren't tech-savvy" critique...... designed to insult people into silence, for fear of being labeled a Luddite.

Good tech is intuitive and customer friendly. Just because something is more high-tech does not make it inherently better.

 

[mom2rtk]

Hmmmm. So the Disney vets who know the ropes will always be able to take advantage of the system and get the better of clueless nubes. Where have I heard this before?

You know, it does sound vaguely familiar....... let me see...... hmmmmm.......

 

[MrInfinity]

While the frustration might fall off a bit, how does that happen in large numbers if WDW is mostly first time visitors?

"mostly first time visitors" ?

What do you think... on a given day, what percentage of guests...

x% ... are on their first trip
y% ... are on their 2nd or 3rd trip
z% ... are on their 4th or greater trip

What would you guess for x, y, and z. They should sum to 100 obviously.
(we obviously don't know but we can make estimates)

 

[JanaDee]

I think this person is smart enough to determine on their own how they feel about something without having to be told how to feel about it.

Irony.

 

[cakebaker]

Oh yeah, 60 days. So you have to do even more planning.....

Giving me 60 days rather than 45 or 30 or 10 causes no extra planning at all. I spend perhaps an hour at most picking out a few rides and that's it. Any other planning I do is because I want to.

And no one HAS to do anything. This is all a choice. I will forever be puzzled as to why people do something they so obviously dislike when there are so many other choices out there.

I'm willing to drop $5k on a vacation to take my DD to Disney to meet a teenager dressed as Elsa, but I won't drop $200 to take her to Six Flags where they have tons of E-ticket rides in a single park. Disney is doing something right.....

And that's it, right there. There's the explanation for why they do what they do in the way they do it.

 

[Cormoran]

We noticed a particular "tic" amongst all of the CMs who had to deal with the confused and frustrated, and we called it "the Cast Member eye roll". And it really had nothing to do with English versus non-English speakers. The frustration level will surely dissipate over time. But for now, the CM reaction to all of this was obvious and palpable.

Why do you think CM frustration level will dissipate? From what I saw on our last trip, CM's were spending a lot of time explaining FP+ to the uninitiated guests. IMO this population will remain constant. The only way I see CM frustration diminishing is if Disney starts giving them Valium at start of their shifts.