LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[MaryKatesMom]

JimmyV,

Am I in the minority? Maybe. But I read in lots of places about strategies for traveling with younger kids. It's a common recommendation to do only a half day in the parks. It's a common recommendation to take a morning off after an evening where you've caught fireworks or SpectroMagic. So maybe ... and maybe not.

No I don't think you're in the minority at all. We always did RD and half day parks.

However, with tiering and a limit of 3 I'm reluctant to "spend" my FP+ at AK and or DHS. Two weeks ago on our way from the airport the DH let me know he wasn't up to TT so I tried to get him something anything else at DHS. There wasn't any alternative AT ALL. Instead of enjoying the ride to the resort, I was on my phone AND we just had to skip it. We get to Star Tours where the FP+ line was longer than the SB line. Yes, it was longer. The ride was a walk on and everyone in the FP+ line had to stop twice for the Magic Bands. Rode TSMM then went back to the resort.

Lesson learned. I won't use my FP+ at DHS.

 

[Hokie2000]

I just checked the MDE app for wait times, and Spaceship Earth is shown with a 35 minute standby wait time at 11:40 AM on Tuesday, March 3. In my experience going to EPCOT since the year it opened, I have NEVER waited more than 5 minutes to ride this, no matter what time of day or time of year. Seems like a pretty significant change to me, and not for the better. Having to get a FP for Spaceship Earth to avoid a long line is beyond ridiculous, IMHO.

But it is an option to get a FP for Spaceship Earth. At a park with tiering that forces you to pick two "lesser" attractions. Why not get a FP and avoid the 35 minute line? Isn't 11:40 right around peak SE time, even before FP+? I'm not disputing that SB waits have increased (they have), just wondering if this is the worst of the day?

Since the start of FP+ for SE the line for FP+ has been as long or longer than the SB line ever was. Now instead of going whenever I want I have to schedule it in using a FP+

Is it just me, or has the advent of FP+ shrunk Epcot? That park is HUGE, I don't know how you guys were flitting around all day, effortlessly pulling FPs!

If we went in the morning we skipped Spaceship Earth, favoring TT and Soarin. After the initial walk into the park, when is SE super convenient to just go and ride? It's not really on the way to anything besides arriving/leaving the park.

Big shock - I prefer scheduling it .

 

[Hokie2000]

Disney! They decided that they needed to cater more to the 100 people who enter Epcot for the first time at 4:00 p.m. and head to Future World than they need to cater to the thousands who arrived at 9:00 a.m. and invested their whole day there. They decided that each subset of guests were worthy of only one FP for their two headline attractions.

Yes Disney is to blame. We don't really know the decision-making process. I doubt they instituted FP+ solely for afternoon Epcot arrivals. If I were guessing, I would say that they wanted the "Nexgen" technological advancement for FP and the issues with Epcot came up because of lack of "FP-worthy" rides and too little capacity at TT and Soarin. If they are actually building another theater for Soarin maybe they'll remove the tiers? Who knows, but I think Epcot was shoehorned into this rather than being a motivating factor.

 

[Laketravis]

We don't really know the decision-making process...

I'm betting it has something to do with the option that costs the least but nets the most making it's way to the top of the decision tree.


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[Hokie2000]

I'm betting it has something to do with the option that costs the least but nets the most making it's way to the top of the decision tree..

Is implementing FP+/replacing FP- the low cost option?

 

[MaryKatesMom]

But it is an option to get a FP for Spaceship Earth. At a park with tiering that forces you to pick two "lesser" attractions. Why not get a FP and avoid the 35 minute line? Isn't 11:40 right around peak SE time, even before FP+? I'm not disputing that SB waits have increased (they have), just wondering if this is the worst of the day?



Is it just me, or has the advent of FP+ shrunk Epcot? That park is HUGE, I don't know how you guys were flitting around all day, effortlessly pulling FPs!

If we went in the morning we skipped Spaceship Earth, favoring TT and Soarin. After the initial walk into the park, when is SE super convenient to just go and ride? It's not really on the way to anything besides arriving/leaving the park.

Big shock - I prefer scheduling it .

Why is it better to schedule standing in a longer line? In what way is it better to schedule a 15 minute wait than a 5 minute wait.

FP+ stands for Fast pass and that is NOT what it turned into at SSE. The FP+ line is longer than the standby line ever was except at opening.

 

[flicx]

Yes Disney is to blame. We don't really know the decision-making process. I doubt they instituted FP+ solely for afternoon Epcot arrivals. If I were guessing, I would say that they wanted the "Nexgen" technological advancement for FP and the issues with Epcot came up because of lack of "FP-worthy" rides and too little capacity at TT and Soarin. If they are actually building another theater for Soarin maybe they'll remove the tiers? Who knows, but I think Epcot was shoehorned into this rather than being a motivating factor.

In my opinion, as I have stated before Disney went for the money grab. Make no mistake FP Plus and the whole My Magic had little to nothing to do with customer satisfaction and everything about squeezing pennies. One unexpected thing that happened is it has really exposed that Disney is lacking in tier 1 attractions.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I'm betting it has something to do with the option that costs the least but nets the most making it's way to the top of the decision tree.


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When FP+ first came out there was no tiering. I don't think it was part of the decision rather a product of unintended consequences.

 

[Hokie2000]

Why is it better to schedule standing in a longer line? In what way is it better to schedule a 15 minute wait than a 5 minute wait.

FP+ stands for Fast pass and that is NOT what it turned into at SSE. The FP+ line is longer than the standby line ever was except at opening.

Ok, I see what you're saying. In your previous post you said that you had to get a FP rather than ride when you wanted. If the SB is 5 min, but the FP is 15 minutes, just don't get the FP. Or don't use the FP. I know it's a travesty if SE took that precious Figment FP slot but I think it will turn out alright in the end. (I'm joking of course, Epcot seriously needs some new rides!)

 

[MaryKatesMom]

In my opinion, as I have stated before Disney went for the money grab. Make no mistake FP Plus and the whole My Magic had little to nothing to do with customer satisfaction and everything about squeezing pennies. One unexpected thing that happened is it has really exposed that Disney is lacking in tier 1 attractions.

I agree.

It has been over a year and we're still discussing it. It has added a whole new level to planning. FP+ in the MK while limiting isn't the crushing burden it is on the other 3 parks.

 

[JimmyV]

When FP+ first came out there was no tiering. I don't think it was part of the decision rather a product of unintended consequences.

This. This! THIS!
It was a huge "oops!" And when Epcot and DHS have sufficient attractions such that they can remove tiering, they will. And this will be all the proof anyone needs to prove that tiering isn't part of some grand scheme to "fairly" allocate FPs and instead is a tacit admission that two of the four parks need serious work.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Ok, I see what you're saying. In your previous post you said that you had to get a FP rather than ride when you wanted. If the SB is 5 min, but the FP is 15 minutes, just don't get the FP. Or don't use the FP. I know it's a travesty if SE took that precious Figment FP slot but I think it will turn out alright in the end. (I'm joking of course, Epcot seriously needs some new rides!)

Same thing at the GMR and Star Tours but you don't know the line is shorter or non-existent until it is too late. If the ride is a walk on the two taps with the magic bands slows it down.

Not to mention standing there for 10 minutes waiting for your time. Hurry up and wait.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

This. This! THIS!
It was a huge "oops!" And when Epcot and DHS have sufficient attractions such that they can remove tiering, they will. And this will be all the proof anyone needs to prove that tiering isn't part of some grand scheme to "fairly" allocate FPs and instead is a tacit admission that two of the four parks need serious work.

I nearly fell out of my chair when they moved "The Land" to a tier 1. I love that thing! When it was Tier 2 it was one of the rides where the FP+ line was longer than the SB line. Now the SB line seems like it is back to its usual wait.

Why couldn't they have waited a bit to close Maelstrom until something else added capacity?!

 

[JimmyV]

Am I in the minority? Maybe. But I read in lots of places about strategies for traveling with younger kids.

I understand everything that you are saying, and it makes perfect sense. 90% of people arrive early because arriving late puts them behind the curve. Enter FP+. Now people don't have to arrive early. But really? Arrive at Epcot at 4:00 with a FP+ in hand for Soarin' and you don't get to ride Test Track without a 70 minute wait, and Spaceship Earth without a 40 minute wait, and so on. So yes, FP+ opens up the ability to arrive later and that helps a lot of people. But is their day a whole lot different as a result? Prior to FP+, that person would get no FPs and face two attractions with 70 minute waits. Now, they only face one. I guess that is an "improvement".

 

[Hokie2000]

This. This! THIS!
It was a huge "oops!" And when Epcot and DHS have sufficient attractions such that they can remove tiering, they will. And this will be all the proof anyone needs to prove that tiering isn't part of some grand scheme to "fairly" allocate FPs and instead is a tacit admission that two of the four parks need serious work.

Agreed. If tiering wasn't an OOPS they would have done it at MK and AK. Come to think of it, why doesn't AK have tiering? The ride count is not terribly high. Attendance numbers? I wonder if Avatar will force tiering there. Perish the thought!

 

[JimmyV]

I wonder if Avatar will force tiering there.

GREAT question. Wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if adding another headliner caused tiering instead of solving it?

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I understand everything that you are saying, and it makes perfect sense. 90% of people arrive early because arriving late puts them behind the curve. Enter FP+. Now people don't have to arrive early. But really? Arrive at Epcot at 4:00 with a FP+ in hand for Soarin' and you don't get to ride Test Track without a 70 minute wait, and Spaceship Earth without a 40 minute wait, and so on. So yes, FP+ opens up the ability to arrive later and that helps a lot of people. But is their day a whole lot different as a result? Prior to FP+, that person would get no FPs and face two attractions with 70 minute waits. Now, they only face one. I guess that is an "improvement".

And in our family it is now Soarin' or TT not Soarin' and TT. Unfortunately my family prefers TT so either I split from my family or I don't get to ride one of the most special to me rides at WDW. I was there for the unannounced AP soft opening and rode it all afternoon. The family left me there.

 

[Laketravis]

Is implementing FP+/replacing FP- the low cost option?

When the guy in the tie pointed out how it could be implemented in multiple park systems (thus spreading out the cost) and preclude the need to incur the expense of constructing additional attractions by squeezing additional yield out of existing ones while packing more guests into the parks per square foot and ultimately having a favorable impact on labor costs, I'm guessing......................... yes.


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[MrInfinity]

I understand everything that you are saying, and it makes perfect sense. 90% of people arrive early because arriving late puts them behind the curve. Enter FP+. Now people don't have to arrive early. But really? Arrive at Epcot at 4:00 with a FP+ in hand for Soarin' and you don't get to ride Test Track without a 70 minute wait, and Spaceship Earth without a 40 minute wait, and so on. So yes, FP+ opens up the ability to arrive later and that helps a lot of people. But is their day a whole lot different as a result? Prior to FP+, that person would get no FPs and face two attractions with 70 minute waits. Now, they only face one. I guess that is an "improvement".

You guess that's an improvement? That's pretty huge. And it's not just 1 ride, it's 3. Tho they're rides you might not care about, people sure seem to care when folks are using FP's to SE, and Grimley now has to wait. So obviously people care about these rides. Getting to do 3 things during the heart of the day w/ no competition beyond picking 3 in advance is -- a big deal.

I think a lot of your issue stems from this basic premise:

You expect to be able to ride both Soarin and TT in a day, without waiting.

And you think that a system should accommodate that request -- without you even having to work for it or come in early. We've hashed out the capacity issue. 30,000 ridings, 40,000 guests. Why should you inherently be able to ride twice? "Because you used to" is not an acceptable answer. You could script a scenario in which guests who get there first get to ride both. That's FP-. I could script a system in which there is no Tiering, but all resort guests get to book before all off-siters. Offsiters of course would have to complain that Disney doesn't care about them... or buy a room.

I just don't see your case for "You deserve 2". When Disney has every incentive in the world to use those two for two guests instead of just you. And you can ride both, you just have to be willing to wait for everyone else to ride once first.

So the core is not even that you want to ride twice... it's that you feel you deserve to ride twice before everyone else even gets to ride once. Why?

One unexpected thing that happened is it has really exposed that Disney is lacking in tier 1 attractions.

This is fair.

But I'll add, despite the lack of Tier-1 attractions, I am eager to go and spend 2 days at Epcot, a park that is most notable for lacking in these attractions. Yet I have a Six Flags down the street from my house where I could enjoy 10 Tier-1 attractions for 1/10th of the cost, and that's not worth it to me. And then some ppl really do want more Tier-1 attractions... yet... they are still going, given what's there.

 

[Hokie2000]

GREAT question. Wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if adding another headliner caused tiering instead of solving it?

I have to be honest - yes, yes it would.