LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Laketravis]

In my opinion, as I have stated before Disney went for the money grab. Make no mistake FP Plus and the whole My Magic had little to nothing to do with customer satisfaction and everything about squeezing pennies. One unexpected thing that happened is it has really exposed that Disney is lacking in tier 1 attractions.

As I've stated before and I'll say it again - a company that puts RFID sensors on the bottom of drink cups to make sure you don't get an extra 4 cents of product doesn't spend $2 Billion dollars to make customers happy.

Unhappy guests are simply considered collateral damage who must be further educated as to the virtues of the wonderful new system.


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[Hokie2000]

When the guy in the tie pointed out how it could be implemented in multiple park systems (thus spreading out the cost) and preclude the need to incur the expense of constructing additional attractions by squeezing additional yield out of existing ones while packing more guests into the parks per square foot, I'm guessing......................... yes.

If they quit after Avatar I will agree with you. If they build more attractions then your scenario is unlikely. Why spend the money to implement a system meant to prevent spending money on attractions and then turn around and spend the money to build more attractions? Unless you think that building attractions indicates that FP+ failed? It's possible. But we know Disney's pace (glacial) so any attractions that are announced in the near future (1-2 years - remember we're in the sloooooow lane) have been in the design phase for awhile, so concurrent with the implementation of FP+/MM+.

 

[JimmyV]

You expect to be able to ride both Soarin and TT in a day, without waiting.

And you think that a system should accommodate that request -- without you even having to work for it or come in early.

But I can ride Kali Rapids and Everest in the same day without waiting, without "having to work for it" (whatever that means) and without coming in early. And I can ride Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain and Splash Mountain under the same conditions. So what you are saying is that the restrictions placed on me by Disney are not the result of some higher goal of "fairness" but instead exist because Disney has fallen down on the job in its upkeep/expansion of Epcot. So there we have it. FP+ is the creation of Disney's unwillingness to spend capital in its biggest park.

 

[Laketravis]

If they quit after Avatar I will agree with you. If they build more attractions then your scenario is unlikely. Why spend the money to implement a system meant to prevent spending money on attractions and then turn around and spend the money to build more attractions? Unless you think that building attractions indicates that FP+ failed? It's possible. But we know Disney's pace (glacial) so any attractions that are announced in the near future (1-2 years - remember we're in the sloooooow lane) have been in the design phase for awhile, so concurrent with the implementation of FP+/MM+.

Avatar was already in-process before MM+/FP+ so yes that was allowed to continue to completion.

I can't think of much of anything new (as in additional capacity) since MM+/FP+ came on deck. The Frozen redo of Maelstrom is simply taking advantage of a marketing opportunity and deserving of an entirely new discussion as to why existing unused facilities weren't repurposed for that.

So at least at WDW there's really nothing concrete on the table. There's $5B being spent to construct and open another park on the other side of the world. And all of those attractions are new.


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[MrInfinity]

But I can ride Kali Rapids and Everest in the same day without waiting, without "having to work for it" (whatever that means) and without coming in early. And I can ride Space Mountain, Thunder Mountain and Splash Mountain under the same conditions. So what you are saying is that the restrictions placed on me by Disney are not the result of some higher goal of "fairness" but instead exist because Disney has fallen down on the job in its upkeep/expansion of Epcot. So there we have it. FP+ is the creation of Disney's unwillingness to spend capital in its biggest park.

Those aren't as highly demanded. You know this. Bad example. It's not about fairness. If Disney has two ridings of Soarin and TT. And they can sell them both to you for your $2000 stay. Or they can sell them to two guests who will each do a $2000 stay. Which makes more sense. Tell me why Disney should turn away two guests to give you two ridings. It's a simple request.

Does Disney NEED to spend capital in its biggest park? If Epcot is filled to the brim... and it has been... on all of my recent trips, literally wall-to-wall people. Then why do they need to build more attractions. People are willing to pay - given the attractions they have now.

 

[Hokie2000]

Avatar was already in-process before MM+/FP+

I can't think of much of anything since MM+/FP+ came on deck.

Right, so if Avatar is the end of new ride construction for awhile then I agree with your premise. And I don't think a new Soarin theater counts, because that would just be a band-aid to solve Epcot's Tier 1 woes. If new rides are built then I don't think it was a cost-cutting measure. I do think it was implemented to entice people to lock-in to their vacations and invest more time planning, which should result in more profits.

 

[Laketravis]

Right, so if Avatar is the end of new ride construction for awhile then I agree with your premise. And I don't think a new Soarin theater counts, because that would just be a band-aid to solve Epcot's Tier 1 woes. If new rides are built then I don't think it was a cost-cutting measure. I do think it was implemented to entice people to lock-in to their vacations and invest more time planning, which should result in more profits.

I was editing my post while you were quoting me but yes, I agree. Maybe when they don't have to divert domestic park profits to Shanghai they'll circle back and give WDW some love.

Maybe.


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[JimmyV]

Those aren't as highly demanded. You know this. Bad example.

More people ride Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain each day than either TT or Soarin'. In fact, the Space Mountain number is almost the equivalent of the total of the other two combined. You know this. Bad reasoning. Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain are highly demanded, under any one's definition.

 

[Laketravis]

Does Disney NEED to spend capital in its biggest park? If Epcot is filled to the brim... and it has been... on all of my recent trips, literally wall-to-wall people. Then why do they need to build more attractions. People are willing to pay - given the attractions they have now.

Because some companies know that today's demand could evaporate tomorrow, and that they must continue to invest and innovate to stay ahead of the demand curve (build/sell/build).

Other companies invest in ways to squeeze more out of what they already have and decide they'll address reduced demand after it's been determined it's waning (squeeze/break/fix).

The comment by Disney during a recent analyst call that they "will not follow business cycles" in regards to the parks leads me to believe they are in the former group.


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[MrInfinity]

Let me pose this to you, Jimmy...

So Disney owns this park. And it has 2 rides. (ok it has over 10, but for purposes of this scenario let's say the value of that park is TT and Soarin).

They're got their 2 rides there... and 40,000 guests line up at the gates.

So they decide... well ok. We can let people race for them, push and shove, and whoever gets there first can ride multiple times. Some guests might get 3 or 4, many other guests none at all. Or we can orderly hand out 1 to each guest, a month in advance, letting them pick which one they want.

Is that a bad thing in general?

Isn't your gripe more accurately... "why the heck are there 40,000 guests lining up to go to this park which only has two rides with a total capacity of 30,000 ridings? I mean... Disney hasn't added new capacity here in years, yet there are so many people that want to go here."

If there were only 20,000 guests, no problem! You could probly ride TT and Soarin over and over.

It seems to me your primary issue is not that Disney does not give you extra ridings on its rides. But rather so many other people love the park you love, and they're willing to pay and go, even tho there are not the number of rides here that you'd like to have. Is that fair?

No of course not you'll find a way to disagree. But it'd be interesting to hear.

 

[flicx]

Does Disney NEED to spend capital in its biggest park? If Epcot is filled to the brim... and it has been... on all of my recent trips, literally wall-to-wall people. Then why do they need to build more attractions. People are willing to pay - given the attractions they have now.

Fuzzy are you a Disney exec? Obviously if EPCOT can't meet customer satisfaction for tier 1 rides, why would any company who was even the least bit interested in customer satisfaction not fix it?

 

[MrInfinity]

Fuzzy are you a Disney exec? Obviously if EPCOT can't meet customer satisfaction for tier 1 rides, why would any company who was even the least bit interested in customer satisfaction not fix it?

I believe it is meeting customer satisfaction. People are going. I'm going. You're going. Jimmy is going. If it was not meeting customer satisfaction, these ppl would not go - myself included.

 

[flicx]

I believe it is meeting customer satisfaction. People are going. I'm going. You're going. Jimmy is going. If it was not meeting customer satisfaction, these ppl would not go - myself included.

No actually I am not going and haven't for quite a few years now. I believe it isn't meeting customer satisfaction for tier 1 rides and has been demonstrated. Difference of opinion. You still did not answer my other question though. Are you a Disney exec? I am curious.

 

[Laketravis]

I believe it is meeting customer satisfaction..

Is it? Here's yet another thread started just an hour ago by someone who just got back and isn't satisfied: http://www.disboards.com/threads/just-home-my-thoughts.3386052/

From that thread:

"I think we are probably done with disney for awhile. For us there was a lack of magic, and the magic is what always made the cost worth it for me. This time I felt it was more about moving us along, turning everything over quickly, quantity instead of quality. We vacation infrequently enough that I can't really consider spending significant money on a mediocre experience. It bums me out, but there it is."

Many are expressing the same sentiments in that thread. Even Robo, who no doubt is among the biggest and helpful of WDW fans I've ever known:

So sorry that things were so rushed.

I've always worried (for years and over many trips) that our "next trip" would be the one where things were not as magical.
And, for years and over many trips, we kept finding extra magic... every single time!

But alas, I must say that our latest trip (this January) was closer to your recent experience.
And, I am very disappointed.

Satisfaction isn't something that evaporates all at once. It's more like a ball of twine that slowly unravels and if you aren't paying attention..........


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[MrInfinity]

No actually I am not going and haven't for quite a few years now. I believe it isn't meeting customer satisfaction for tier 1 rides and has been demonstrated. Difference of opinion.

So there ya go. Your opinion is that it's not meeting customer satisfaction. But you haven't been in a few years, and I've been 3 times in the last 5. We've had a blast every time. I'd be willing to bet, 16,000,000 other guests will still go. And the year after, even more. Data suggests you're in the minority here. No -- "just wait" right? Attendance is going to go down?

You still did not answer my other question though. Are you a Disney exec? I am curious.

Hah thought the question was rhetorical. No not a Disney exec. Simple Disney fan, thrill seeker, parent, and kid at heart. We go about once every 1-2 years. How about you? What brings you out to these boards if you haven't been in quite a few years and you're not planning to go back? If you haven't even been in the FP+ era why take such offense to it based on experiences of others? Mine being good and Jimmy's being bad seems maybe you should just decide to go and have fun.

 

[Hokie2000]

I was editing my post while you were quoting me but yes, I agree. Maybe when they don't have to divert domestic park profits to Shanghai they'll circle back and give WDW some love.

Maybe.

Eh, they probably will. I don't expect Shanghai Disney to flop like EuroDisney, do you? Hopefully it will be a great success and WDW will benefit from all that money rolling in.

I'm still hopeful for Star Wars and Pixar Place. DHS is in a sad state right now. I can't imagine it will be left like this for long. I'm not too sure about Epcot. I would be surprised if there's anything going on besides Frozen and the Soarin expansion. I wish they would bring back Cranium Command and redo Body Wars. I'm not that well-versed in Epcot history, does anyone know what happened to Wonders of Life?

 

[MrInfinity]

Is it? Here's yet another thread started just an hour ago by someone who just got back and isn't satisfied

I would be willing to bet in the time it took you to go look up and quote that thread, 1000 guests entered a WDW park. And almost all of them will not come out to these boards. They will never post. Yet they will spend their day making memories and having a wonderful time. You are more than welcome to pull any example you like, heck, pull together a history of every thread with a complaint in the last year if you like. It will pale in comparison to the 50,000,000 that will hit up WDW this year. Look how many zeros it takes to make fifty million guests. All of which will go home to their families, to their jobs, and talk about the great time they had at Disney World. They will be thrilled, they will deal w meltdowns, they will be sad when it is time to go back to real life, and they will long to come back again.

 

[Laketravis]

I'm not that well-versed in Epcot history, does anyone know what happened to Wonders of Life?

The closed building is still sitting there, getting harder to see with the bushes and trees growing around it:

 

[Laketravis]

Interesting isn't it....lol

Still seems to be trending that way.


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[MaryKatesMom]

So there ya go. Your opinion is that it's not meeting customer satisfaction. But you haven't been in a few years, and I've been 3 times in the last 5. We've had a blast every time. I'd be willing to bet, 16,000,000 other guests will still go. And the year after, even more. Data suggests you're in the minority here. No -- "just wait" right? Attendance is going to go down?



Hah thought the question was rhetorical. No not a Disney exec. Simple Disney fan, thrill seeker, parent, and kid at heart. We go about once every 1-2 years. How about you? What brings you out to these boards if you haven't been in quite a few years and you're not planning to go back? If you haven't even been in the FP+ era why take such offense to it based on experiences of others? Mine being good and Jimmy's being bad seems maybe you should just decide to go and have fun.

I take about 4-5 trips a year. I have enough personal data points to have a very good idea of pre and post FP+ implementation has affected my vacation. I have one more planned for April and then I'm letting my AP expire. How many times since FP+ have you gone?

I'm not sure why you think it is somehow wrong to want to ride both Soarin' and TT without waiting twice in one day. We used to do each TWICE on Epcot day now we are down to one or the other once. A whopping total of 4 rides isn't much to ask for the amount of money I spend. There were days when it was arrive at RD do two things and leave. So what? I also watch Impression's De France at LEAST twice during our Epcot afternoons, usually solo as my family won't sit through it more than once in one trip but I adore it. What is so wrong about that? Why shouldn't I ride or watch what I want? If you wanted to ride small world 2-3 times in one day good for you. It's your vacation. Now if someone were complaining about not riding Space Mountain 10 times in a row it would be one thing but going from 2 rides on 2 attractions in one day to one OR the other that is a reduction of 75%.

I'm wondering how WDW is going to fare at getting the first time visitor or occasional visitor to flip to a frequent visitor and fan. Preventing them from doing what they want doesn't sound like sound strategy. Taking the theme park out of our theme park vacation isn't drawing us there. It will be interesting to see how their attendance figures fare going forward.