LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Planogirl]

The thing that was different there (Rumors and News) back in the day, and trust me.....it got contentious, was that folks didn't have an agenda per se. There was no need to fashion "facts" to support a conclusion. We had thoughts and beliefs, we had disagreements, but there was still some level of objectivity, even if we interpreted some facts differently. As we weren't talking so much about personal vacations, but rather the Walt Disney Company, it's history, what drove Walt and how, even if, the same ideals should/could drive the company today.....well, there was little need for hyperbole and rhetoric, at least to the extent I see here.

The discussions back in 2000 over whatever subject weren't much different in tone on the planning board then as they are today. The R&N crew I knew didn't spend much time on the planning board then, because we were talking Company, not vacations. Given the rhetoric and accompanying snark on the vacation based planning board that exists at times, I don't think they would today.

I miss that old group. I often wonder what became of so many of them.

Some people extol the virtues of Universal's Express Pass system to provide preference to guests of their on-site resorts. I suppose it is wrong of Disney to give preferential treatment to their on-site guests, the ones spending the most money, filling the beds, and fattening the bottom line? I guess you are anti-Extra Magic Hours as well?

I can only speak for us. I have often said and still believe that charging extra is not a bad policy but at least allow access. I can go to Universal and buy Express if I need it. If Disney further limits offsite when it comes to FP+, will I be able to buy my way into it or am I just left out? So far onsite has quite an advantage and some people feel like they should have even more.

By the way, we have so far never bought Express at Universal. So far so good.

Oh please don't be sorry. I didn't know I was supposed to go to Disney and pay my money to enhance the experience for someone else. Good grief ...do you really actually believe that most people decide on whether something is an improvement for themselves by judging first how it affects other people ? Do you really think the average family is going to Disney and saying...hmmm I like x (or don't like x) but gee let me see what others think before I decide if it is an improvement.....cmon you cant be that naive

I never understand this notion that we need to somehow worry about whether other travelers are getting enough FP+ or whether they understand things or whatever. I am responsible for my vacation and they are responsible for theirs.

 

[Hokie2000]

My family loves it! I can't claim we have any special strategy for making it work but it seems that we get more done and enjoy our time in the parks more than with the old paper tickets.

To us it also seems that it has reduced the anxiety during our trips. Maybe it was me bringing the anxiety to the mix but since we always tried to max out our time in the parks- I was constantly running from one attraction to the other or worrying how to get more passes in. It seems that we get on all the attractions we want to do at a much more enjoyable pace.

So- count us in the minority- we love it!

We love it too! I feel very similar to you - our last trip was extremely relaxing even though the crowd level was a bit higher than our previous trips.

I didn't use FP- a ton, but I did the RD to TSMM, send the fam to TT while I got Soarin FPs, etc. I had wanted to chill and spend more time at the resort but I felt that I needed to be in the parks all day to get everything in. Preplanning our FPs has been great - I planned my afternoon FPs and the mornings were open for other things. Or we went to the park in the morning, took a nice pool break and came back and used our FPs in the evening. I guess I could have done that before they enforced the FP- return windows but I don't think I ever did. I'm a rule follower by nature.

If you're in the minority I'm right there with you!

 

[Hokie2000]

As I said earlier, it is fair to debate that point. One just has to concede that there is actually an advantage in order to have the debate. As for the substance of you post, why, then, didn't Disney give these advantages to on site guests before? Before, on site got EMH but no FP advantage. Why can't it be the same way now? Disney's hotels are already up over 80% in occupancy. Anything over 90% isn't realistic. So Disney ups the advantage to try to squeeze 4 or 5 percentage points out of its hotel occupancy rates? I suppose there is value to that. But it comes at a public relations cost, especially when FP usage climbs to the level where we start to see a real divide between 60 and 30.

Your point is interesting. Why no advantage before? I honestly don't know. How would that have been accomplished? Each onsite guests gets paper FPs when they check in? Would they have been for the earliest time slot? Or special, all day, anytime FPs? Do you think that would have messed up distribution too much?

 

[larryz]

Hmmmm. So the Disney vets who know the ropes will always be able to take advantage of the system and get the better of clueless nubes. Where have I heard this before?

I seem to recall being called a "rule-breaking FastPass abuser"...

 

[larryz]

BLUF: FP+ was the catalyst that broke my Disney programming.

My last trip to WDW was 2010. Planned to go again in 2012, but postponed it for a year when I heard about FP+.

In 2013, postponed to 2014 until the FP+ dust settled.

In 2014, still wary of FP+ and MB issues, I considered a trip in 2015 as it seemed most of the problems had been ironed out. But then I realized I could enjoy Disney "the old fashioned way" by going to DLR. Did that. Enjoyed it, but realized my passion for all things Disney was waning. There were highlights (Matterhorn, Indiana Jones, Subs, Trader Sam's) but they just didn't hook me any more.

In analyzing why, I came to realize the FP+ and the restrictions it places on my touring style took all the fun out of WDW for me. I'm a planner, but I also enjoy some spontaneity as well... I can't get my desired mix any more. And DLR, after WDW, is quaint, cute and fun, but just isn't as immersive as WDW.

So I've lost the bubble. Even without trying it, FP+ seems like it makes a trip more work than it's worth.

But don't cry for me, Argentina (or Brasil). Maybe a trip to someplace real will help reset my clock...

 

[JimmyV]

Your point is interesting. Why no advantage before? I honestly don't know. How would that have been accomplished? Each onsite guests gets paper FPs when they check in? Would they have been for the earliest time slot? Or special, all day, anytime FPs? Do you think that would have messed up distribution too much?

On site guests (probably) didn't get an advantage under FP- because:

• It would have been logistically difficult with machines spitting out FPs. The best that could have been done would have been to give guests an "anytime, any ride" FP at check in.
• FP was seen as a theme park feature, and as such, was available to all guests who crossed through the turnstile, on an even playing field. It was viewed as a way to enhance your day in the park as opposed to a way to entice you to come to WDW in the first place.

I feel very strongly about this second point. As you can tell.

 

[JimmyV]

Yes, but what about getting FPs for Soarin when you aren't planning to get to Epcot until 4 PM? Then the new boss rules over the old boss.

Yes. We've covered this. FP+ wins here. But while entering Epcot at 4:00 to go to Future World is certainly a possibility, it is quite likely a minority way to tour. Impossible to prove, but I would guess that the vast majority of guests who go to Future World each day arrive in the morning, and the majority of guests who enter Epcot at 4:00 are headed for World Showcase. So again, FP+ solved a problem that either didn't exist, or, existed for a small sliver of the park population. Of course, we will hear: "I go to Epcot in the afternoons, and under the old system I couldn't get a FP." But there was a workaround that was within the self-control of every such guest. Go earlier. The first time that I went to DHS after TSMM opened, I did not go at RD. I got a FP, but just barely. The second time I went, it was with some friends who didn't care about that ride whatsoever, and we arrived after RD and the FPs were gone by the time we arrived. Instead of whining about how getting to the park at 10:00 cut me off from getting a FP, I took the bull by the horns and arrived at RD the next time that I went with my family. I solved my own problem. I didn't need a FP allocation system to solve it for me.

 

[JimmyV]

A current blog that reveals how the non-Dis universe approaches FP+. Of note...

Last time I went to Disney I didn't know that you can reserve Fastpass+ before going to the park. As a result, even though we went in the morning, the only useful passes were for late in the evening. Since we didn't plan on staying that long, the whole Fastpass+ system was useless to us.

But even the nubes are learning how to become Super Users
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2015/03/03/hacking-walt-disney-world/

 

[Hokie2000]

Yes. We've covered this. FP+ wins here. But while entering Epcot at 4:00 to go to Future World is certainly a possibility, it is quite likely a minority way to tour. Impossible to prove, but I would guess that the vast majority of guests who go to Future World each day arrive in the morning, and the majority of guests who enter Epcot at 4:00 are headed for World Showcase. So again, FP+ solved a problem that either didn't exist, or, existed for a small sliver of the park population. Of course, we will hear: "I go to Epcot in the afternoons, and under the old system I couldn't get a FP." But there was a workaround that was within the self-control of every such guest. Go earlier. The first time that I went to DHS after TSMM opened, I did not go at RD. I got a FP, but just barely. The second time I went, it was with some friends who didn't care about that ride whatsoever, and we arrived after RD and the FPs were gone by the time we arrived. Instead of whining about how getting to the park at 10:00 cut me off from getting a FP, I took the bull by the horns and arrived at RD the next time that I went with my family. I solved my own problem. I didn't need a FP allocation system to solve it for me.

Again, I think you're incorrect in your assumption that the people who are commenting now previously sat around whining about not getting FPs. Who did that?

No one NEEDED FP+ to perfectly tailor itself to their touring preferences. But now, with FP+, arriving later to Epcot with a prearranged FP is an OPTION. One that did not exist before. Why begrudge anyone that wants to take advantage of the newly available options? And why so irritated when they like them?

I don't want to spend an entire day at Epcot. I find it a bit overwhelming and like to break it up into several visits over a weeklong stay. I like my new options.

 

[Luckybee]

A current blog that reveals how the non-Dis universe approaches FP+. Of note...


But even the nubes are learning how to become Super Users
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2015/03/03/hacking-walt-disney-world/

Do you think it's getting to the point that you'll have no choice but to do this ? We haven't done this as of yet and our next trip is just a drop in thing. (We were so turned off because of fp+ we made the decision to not even go to D on our Orlando trip....man that's a first for us) thing so Im not concerned for us . That said we have newbie friends going in May (which is why we'll spend a bit of time at D, and I almost feel like Im being negligent not suggesting this to them. If half the park has unlimited fp's even if its just for the "leftover " attractions Im starting to think they may be at a real disadvantage if everyone is doing this. I guess until I read this I thought it was sort of limited to just a few from the dis...lol.

 

[Laketravis]

A current blog that reveals how the non-Dis universe approaches FP+. Of note...


But even the nubes are learning how to become Super Users
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2015/03/03/hacking-walt-disney-world/

And THAT is the noise level Disney needs to be paying attention to.


.

 

[Hokie2000]

On site guests (probably) didn't get an advantage under FP- because:

• It would have been logistically difficult with machines spitting out FPs. The best that could have been done would have been to give guests an "anytime, any ride" FP at check in.
• FP was seen as a theme park feature, and as such, was available to all guests who crossed through the turnstile, on an even playing field. It was viewed as a way to enhance your day in the park as opposed to a way to entice you to come to WDW in the first place.

I feel very strongly about this second point. As you can tell.

Honestly I think logistics had the most to do with it. Does your second point come from Disney or is it how people perceived the system to be? No sarcasm, I am genuinely curious.

 

[Laketravis]

Just out of curiosity - are some of the FP supporters only interested in defending FP when it's debated in a particular forum?



Not that I miss them or anything............

.

 

[JimmyV]

Again, I think you're incorrect in your assumption that the people who are commenting now previously sat around whining about not getting FPs. Who did that?

But that's sort of my point. While FP- was up and running, people did not whine about not getting FPs. But they are doing it in hindsight. There are plenty of posts here by people lauding the new system because the old system left them high and dry. But the fact that people didn't whine in the past is evidence to the point that they "fixed" a system that no one was complaining about being broken.

Why begrudge anyone that wants to take advantage of the newly available options?

This is an easy one. By creating a system that allows a slim minority to enter Epcot at 4:00 with a FP for Soarin', they have stripped away my ability to get one for both Soarin' and Test Track, despite the fact that I invested my entire day at Epcot.

Does your second point come from Disney or is it how people perceived the system to be?

Just my take, plus reverse deductive reasoning. The system was in place from 1999-January, 2014. During this time, if Disney had wanted to figure out a way to either monetize it or set up a preference order, it would have.

 

[MrInfinity]

On site guests (probably) didn't get an advantage under FP- because:

• It would have been logistically difficult with machines spitting out FPs. The best that could have been done would have been to give guests an "anytime, any ride" FP at check in.
• FP was seen as a theme park feature, and as such, was available to all guests who crossed through the turnstile, on an even playing field. It was viewed as a way to enhance your day in the park as opposed to a way to entice you to come to WDW in the first place.

Onsite guests (really) didn't get an advantage under FP- because:

• Disney had no way to leverage this.

It was a dated paper system from the 90's. It was a good attempt to mitigate lines and get people to pull a ticket then go do other things while they virtually waited, but in practice, most guests did not do it and waited standby anyways, and those that did use it figured out they could use it repeatedly to ride over and over. Thus, it was not helping the majority of guests, it was not making Disney any money, it was not selling rooms, and it was only helping a small subset of guests, and the way in which it helped them was solely to ride more, not to ride a few times efficiently and then do other things.

Disney did not ever implement FP- to enhance ones' day. That may have been the marketing material of the time, but unless you accept that the FP+ marketing material about enhancing your day is real, then you should not accept that it was, before. It was put in place for surely the same reasons FP+ is: Get guests out of line, thru a ride quickly, and then freed up to do other things.

It really did not have that effect. It was quite a failure, as it only helped a few guests, and those it helped used it to ride more, not do other things. So it makes sense that they're scrapping it. I hate to say it... but as AWESOME as it was, I agree that scrapping it is the right thing to do.

FP+ is doing a much better job of helping you to get on a ride quickly still, but only inasmuch as there is supply to go around for everyone.

Just out of curiosity - are some of the FP supporters only interested in defending FP when it's debated in a particular forum?

Not everyone is out here all day... I comment when someone says something interesting or has a unique point, which is not your style of posting. Many of your comments come across as just fanning fires. Like this one for example. No point, just asking why no one is "defending" something that there is a lull in the conversation about. I don't defend FP+ because you like to see battles, I join when there is a conversation that I would like to talk about.

I agree w Plano on her thoughts about letting each guest get what they will out of the system, and don't find much to add regarding Jimmy and Hokie's thread.

 

[JimmyV]

Do you think it's getting to the point that you'll have no choice but to do this ?

No choice? No. But will it become more and more common? Absolutely. Will it impact your ability to get a 4th FP+? Positively. Every kid has an email account these days. If all it takes is a second email account to get additional, unlinked Magic Bands, this is going to become very common. You will still get your 3 FPs. But the people with extra MBs will be using them at kiosks at 9:00 a.m. By the time you use up your 3 FPs and become eligible for your 4th, most of what you would have hoped to get will be gone. Maybe Disney will patch the hole. But this has the makings of something that could be a game changer in terms of extra FPs.

 

[Hokie2000]

A current blog that reveals how the non-Dis universe approaches FP+. Of note...


But even the nubes are learning how to become Super Users
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2015/03/03/hacking-walt-disney-world/

That article was ridiculous. The points-and-miles "hacking" crowd seem to be similar to extreme couponers. It's a hobby. I'm not sure if they can be referenced as representative of the general population.

There are just a handful of comments but some commenters are showing that they're against setting up a fake reservation to get FPs. Which is refreshing.

 

[JimmyV]

Disney did not ever implement FP- to enhance ones' day...It was put in place for surely the same reasons FP+ is: Get guests out of line, thru a ride quickly, and then freed up to do other things. It really did not have that effect.

You have spent 100 pages telling us that these goals are great and that they do enhance the guest experience. And now you tell us that this was not the goal, and even if it was, it was not met?

FP+ is doing a much better job of helping you to get on a ride quickly still, but only inasmuch as there is supply to go around for everyone.

Mechanically, how?

• Before--Pulled FP at Soarin' and got a return time of 10:15
• Now--Use computer and get a return time of 10:15

How do the mechanics of the two systems differ such that FP+ has now gotten me on Soarin' faster and kept me out of lines more?[/QUOTE]

It was quite a failure

For whom? As our friend from Virginia Tech points out, people weren't complaining about it. It certainly worked for me. And all of the other voices here who miss it.

 

[JimmyV]

That article was ridiculous.

More or less ridiculous than the 58 page thread here?

 

[Hokie2000]

But that's sort of my point. While FP- was up and running, people did not whine about not getting FPs. But they are doing it in hindsight. There are plenty of posts here by people lauding the new system because the old system left them high and dry. But the fact that people didn't whine in the past is evidence to the point that they "fixed" a system that no one was complaining about being broken.


This is an easy one. By creating a system that allows a slim minority to enter Epcot at 4:00 with a FP for Soarin', they have stripped away my ability to get one for both Soarin' and Test Track, despite the fact that I invested my entire day at Epcot.


Just my take, plus reverse deductive reasoning. The system was in place from 1999-January, 2014. During this time, if Disney had wanted to figure out a way to either monetize it or set up a preference order, it would have.

I don't see a lot of hindsight whining, I see people who say B is better than A. We dealt with A and in situation x, y, z B works better.

Did they actually set out to "fix" FP-? Or did they start with the MyMagic initiative which then swallowed up FP+ because it could be added to the tech and entice people to stay onsite/longer? Was FP+ the impetus for MM+? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.

Who is to blame for stripping away your ability to get TT and Soarin FPs? Surely not the FP+ enthusiast, since they didn't complain about FP- and had nothing to do with the creation of it's replacement.

So this brings me back to a question that's been nagging me through several iterations of these FP threads. I already asked one poster but she never answered. Do you find those that like FP+ disappointing? If we were one, united, angry front against FP+ would it really matter?