Looks like I’m about to LOSE the value of my 200 points!

[karen4546]

DVCM doesn't make any money off of your dues. It's simply a pass through. Our dues simply cover the expenses.

The dues also cover the renovations and anyone can buy into the newly renovated resorts and I know this because I bought into AKV. It was the resort we wanted. And so the money from our dues that paid for the renovations then DVCM DID MAKE MONEY OFF OUR DUES. idk why you are picking out each and every word from comments and making remarks that are just condescending. Geez, I am trying to be respectful but I really want to be a horse's behind and be just as snarky. nitpicking each and every word - I have posted NUMEROUS time that I am a new Owner and I know plenty of people have owned since the beginning of DVC.

Sorry to those looking for help on these posts like I am. I apologize for taking up the space that could be utilized USEFUL comments.

 

[Sandisw]

The dues also cover the renovations and anyone can buy into the newly renovated resorts and I know this because I bought into AKV. It was the resort we wanted. And so the money from our dues that paid for the renovations then DVCM DID MAKE MONEY OFF OUR DUES. idk why you are picking out each and every word from comments and making remarks that are just condescending. Geez, I am trying to be respectful but I really want to be a horse's behind and be just as snarky. nitpicking each and every word - I have posted NUMEROUS time that I am a new Owner and I know plenty of people have owned since the beginning of DVC.

Sorry to those looking for help on these posts like I am. I apologize for taking up the space that could be utilized USEFUL comments.

I am sorry you are feeling that way, Unfortunately, there are a lot of new owners....not saying you are one of them...that do believe things about DVC that are not accurate.

Those of us who have been around a long time have seen it over and over again and just try to point it out for others who may be confused,

You are right, DVCM gets a management fee from the dues. But dues only cover the expenses of DVC resorts, so the whatever money from that goes to TWDC is to cover things like CM salaries assigned to DVC, etc.

 

[karen4546]

I am sorry you are feeling that way, Unfortunately, there are a lot of new owners....not saying you are one of them...that do believe things about DVC that are not accurate.

Those of us who have been around a long time have seen it over and over again and just try to point it out for others who may be confused,

You are right, DVCM gets a management fee from the dues. But dues only cover the expenses of DVC resorts, so the whatever money from that goes to TWDC is to cover things like CM salaries assigned to DVC, etc.

i am not going to argue the point with you. I am new to DVC ownership. I pay dues. Dues cover expenses. this i know. Dues also cover renovations. Renovations keep the people happy and also encourage new buyers or current buyers purchasing more direct points at the original DVC resorts.

I appreciate your longevity and i am sure that I and many new owners can learn so much from you. Stay safe, stay inside and hopefully we will be on the other side of this sooner than later.

 

[Sandisw]

i am not going to argue the point with you. I am new to DVC ownership. I pay dues. Dues cover expenses. this i know. Dues also cover renovations. Renovations keep the people happy and also encourage new buyers or current buyers purchasing more direct points at the original DVC resorts.

I appreciate your longevity and i am sure that I and many new owners can learn so much from you. Stay safe, stay inside and hopefully we will be on the other side of this sooner than later.

Yes, renovations of DVC resorts come out of capital reserve part of the dues budget.

Not sure what I said that you saw as a contradiction. I siimply expanded on your definition that Disney does not profit off dues other than for the management fee that is paid to DVCM...in case others who don’t have the understanding you do were unclear.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Yes, renovations of DVC resorts come out of capital reserve part of the dues budget.

Not sure what I said that you saw as a contradiction. I siimply expanded on your definition that Disney does not profit off dues other than for the management fee that is paid to DVCM...in case others who don’t have the understanding you do were unclear.

And the unknown breakage amount over the minimal % that comes back to offset MF's at the resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

And the unknown breakage amount over the minimal % that comes back to offset MF's at the resorts.

I was only referring to a profit specially related to what our dues pay for.

The profit above the 2.5% for breakage doesn’t come from our dues, though. It comes from the cash they get from renting the rooms.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I was only referring to a profit specially related to what our dues pay for.

The profit above the 2.5% for breakage doesn’t come from our dues, though. It comes from the cash they get from renting the rooms.

Another poster had commented here (and I've seen it on another thread or two) that DVCM does not make a profit so just keeping it clear that they are a revenue arm of Disney.

 

[Sandisw]

Another poster had commented here (and I've seen it on another thread or two) that DVCM does not make a profit so just keeping it clear that they are a revenue arm of Disney.

Good point! They get advantages, and different rules too!

 

[LAX]

I wonder if the the same "bad luck" attitude will be had if COVID-19 closures continue through September / October.

IMHO, for those that have reservations that are not currently affected, but MAYBE affected if the pandemic becomes worse than expected, they really ought to make a decision about those reservations sooner rather than later if options still exist. Obviously, if those reservations are made with banked points, then it would be a much tougher decision. However, if they are made with current or even borrowed points (assuming DVC is still allowing return to original UY), then those owners should decide whether it's worth the risk to sit tight. If they end up losing points because they decide to hold on to the reservations, then I don't they garner as much sympathy as the ones with March/April reservations.

LAX

 

[dismedvc]

Having said that, I think they would be taking less heat if they had not done anything because It would have appeared fairer, regardless of what the fall out was in terms of booking.

I had previously said I was going to stop posting until Disney/DVC made a decision based on updated data, but I could not help myself.
However, having read the post I partially quoted above in full, I think most of us are so close to being on the same page, that there is no reason (at least for me) to comment further until Disney/DVC has more information and announces a decision. See you all then. Thanks for a great post @Sandisw

 

[CanadaDisney05]

simply a pass through. Our dues simply cover the expenses.

I was only referring to a profit specially related to what our dues pay for.

The profit above the 2.5% for breakage doesn’t come from our dues, though. It comes from the cash they get from renting the rooms.

Another poster had commented here (and I've seen it on another thread or two) that DVCM does not make a profit so just keeping it clear that they are a revenue arm of Disney.

Just to be clear, I never said that DVCM isn't a tool to generate profit for TWDC. I simply stated that our annual dues don't generate profit. The annual dues are supposed to only pay for expenses (which includes refurbishments of DVC resorts, not the hotel sides). Sure, there is the possibility that they fudge the numbers a bit and end up profiting off of it. However, they do go through an annual audit, and at some point there has to be a level of trust between you and DVCM. Otherwise, perhaps it's not a good fit.

 

[piccolopat]

I'm not a DVC member but I was interested in learning about this just in case we decided to buy in the future (less likely now!). I think David's would have been smarter to work quickly to salvage as many reservations as possible by quickly allowing owners and renters to reschedule. They may have needed more staff to do this or to allow owners and renters to contact each other directly. They didn't deliver on their promise of removing the risk for these agreements. I understand the disappointment here but isn't this the same as if you were evacuated from your primary residence due to a natural disaster? Your home might not be directly damaged but until the authorities deem the area safe, you won't be allowed back home. In the meantime you still have to pay your mortgage, taxes, utilities, etc. and so you suffer financial losses, especially if you have to go to a hotel in the interim. I know there is a no cancellation clause in most of the agreements mentioned here for points rentals but wouldn't that be for when the renter cancelled, not for when the owner couldn't deliver, for whatever reason? Once Disney cancelled, the owners couldn't deliver on their part of the contract and so I believe the cancellation clause would be unenforceable if it were brought to court. If a renter can't use the points, neither can the owner so isn't losing points similar to not having access to your own home? So sorry for everyone who is losing money here but more so for people whose lives have been lost or forever changed. Stay safe everyone!

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I know there is a no cancellation clause in most of the agreements mentioned here for points rentals but wouldn't that be for when the renter cancelled, not for when the owner couldn't deliver, for whatever reason? Once Disney cancelled, the owners couldn't deliver on their part of the contract and so I believe the cancellation clause would be unenforceable if it were brought to court. If a renter can't use the points, neither can the owner so isn't losing points similar to not having access to your own home? So sorry for everyone who is losing money here but more so for people whose lives have been lost or forever changed. Stay safe everyone!

Depends what the contract states. There is no standard rental contract. Rental contracts are contracts between individual owners and renters (and sometimes brokers).

This is a bit different from the contracts owners have with DVC. These contracts (atleast based on resort) are all identical.

 

[gillep]

I wonder if the the same "bad luck" attitude will be had if COVID-19 closures continue through September / October.

If this is still going in September, I will cancel my November trip, except for however many nights is needed to use up the 34 points I would stand to lose, prior to my September 30th banking deadline. If the resort is open in November, I will add cash nights to my booked DVC night(s) or see if inventory is still available last minute using DVC points, so that I at least get a small vacation using the points that I would lose anyway. If the resort is closed in November then I will lose 34 points.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Just to be clear, I never said that DVCM isn't a tool to generate profit for TWDC. I simply stated that our annual dues don't generate profit. The annual dues are supposed to only pay for expenses (which includes refurbishments of DVC resorts, not the hotel sides). Sure, there is the possibility that they fudge the numbers a bit and end up profiting off of it. However, they do go through an annual audit, and at some point there has to be a level of trust between you and DVCM. Otherwise, perhaps it's not a good fit.

That's confusing though because they have a profit built in that they collect from our dues. They do indeed profit from our MF's. I'm not saying that's wrong just that they do.

 

[KPeterso]

I have December and February use years, and unfortunately have some banked points on each of my contracts that I fear I may end up losing in this since I cannot bank them again. They will most likely go into RCI and then I will figure out what to do with them. My 1 night VGC reservation in May I am going to let Disney cancel (using banked Feb use year AKV points). My July nights VGC nights I kind of expect to be cancelled and I will call to move the banked points to my November VGC reservation (using Dec use year VGC points). My September trip is a mix of SSR and AKV points (some banked AKV points from Dec use year), and I will decide in July if I am going to keep the reservation (travelling with 82 year old mother and we are not going if there is still a lot of risk --- will be the first September missed since 2004). Either way, I figure I am going to be banking a lot of points and then either trying for last minute VGC cancellations via the waitlist to use some of the banked stuff up in the last few months or put in RCI. I stand to lose about 80 banked 2018 points I believe between VGC and AKV. It upsets me, but I am the one who banked the points. The huge amount I will be banking will be next year's worry.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

That's confusing though because they have a profit built in that they collect from our dues. They do indeed profit from our MF's. I'm not saying that's wrong just that they do.

It probably doesn't matter, but from my understanding, the profit they earn comes from the renting of unreserved rooms to cash guests. The first portion (I believe its 2% of annual dues is called breakage) comes back to the membership as a credit against our dues. Anything above and beyond that number is profit for DVC.

So it's not actually our dues that is generating this profit, it's a result of us not using our points, which creates inventory for them to sell. If you personally don't forfeit any points, none of the dues you pay is going into their pocket.

 

[Soap_1984]

If they do nothing I'm literally done with disney I'm never spending another dollar on anything disney. If everyone who isn't losing points feels so bad why not take a few of everyone's points and sprinkle them to those losing thousands of dollars?

They have cash, they have access to cash rooms at dvc resorts they can easily do something. At the end of the day this boils down to money; I've spent probably $30k at disney the last 4 years not including paying for my points, if they do nothing I will literally never spend another dollar and the magic will most certainly be gone.

I really don't want to hear about a level of risk. Disney chose to close, then disney had to close this isn't some freak accident I had that prevented me from going. The hotels aren't open you can't make everyone whole except your most loyal customers, it would be a horrendous business decision.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It probably doesn't matter, but from my understanding, the profit they earn comes from the renting of unreserved rooms to cash guests. The first portion (I believe its 2% of annual dues is called breakage) comes back to the membership as a credit against our dues. Anything above and beyond that number is profit for DVC.

So it's not actually our dues that is generating this profit, it's a result of us not using our points, which creates inventory for them to sell. If you personally don't forfeit any points, none of the dues you pay is going into their pocket.

That is not all. I guess I'll have to go dig out the POS to prove it to you.

 

[10CJ]

Even our own president was saying a week ago he expected everything to begin opening by Easter. So a week ago it was reasonable to think that things were heading in the right direction and Disney would not still be closed in to May. Now it appears to be a very real possibility. Only time will tell. If Disney has announced by March 31 that they would not be opening until June 1 then I’m sure all August use year would have banked.

Are you serious with this? Anyone who has been paying attention should have figured out that things would not be open by Easter.