LL Premier Pass is here!

[FuzzyPeach]

But the new one isn’t necessarily confusing right? Pay their high fee and enjoy your day. Your examples are talking about the passes you need to pre-book. So again, I don’t get why people are mad about the new one other than they don’t like the price.

I mean yeah, I will never applaud the further unbundling and upcharging of the park experience from what it once was. Does that make me mad? Idk. I accept that’s where Disney is right now and they aren’t going back, and there is a level of acceptance I have to have in order to visit, but I still don’t like that aspect.

I think there are a lot of us long time visitors who don’t like the direction things have gone, don’t like certain aspects, but still love the entirety of the experience and find more good than bad so things like the up charges become necessary evils that you can’t really just take or leave as it directly impacts your park experience. Hence the desire for people to keep talking about it.

 

[Boardwalk III]

I just called up a spreadsheet from April 2014, back when MK had EMH every morning from 7-8am, regular MK hours were 8am-midnight, plus there was 3 hours of PM EMH 3 times that week (MK, HS, and Epcot). It had our dining and Fastpasses listed, but mostly we just toured as we pleased in the moment.

But also, back then we used to go to WDW with our extended family as a group of 10+, so my travel notes have everyone's travel information and hotel reservations.

If someone slept late, it was easy to have them just join up with the group. If they missed out on a free FP, nobody gave it a second thought. If someone missed an entire park day, the loss was less than $5!

That was just 10 years ago, but it feels like a lifetime ago.

This sounds like us! Hard to let go of those “good old days” sometimes

 

[jennab]

I think there are a lot of us long time visitors who don’t like the direction things have gone, don’t like certain aspects, but still love the entirety of the experience and find more good than bad so things like the up charges become necessary evils that you can’t really just take or leave as it directly impacts your park experience. Hence the desire for people to keep talking about it.

For sure. There are things I miss too, like magical express and purchase delivery to your room. I’m still holding out hope they bring back purchase delivery, but the others I’ve kind of accepted aren’t coming back and I just make the best of it. We don’t visit often though so there’s usually quite a few changes by the time we come. I don’t even bother to learn about some of them until closer as I assume it will probably change again

 

[DisneyFive]

This sounds like us! Hard to let go of those “good old days” sometimes

Yeah, I fully admit that nostalgia runs deep in me as well

 

[Kurious Oranj]

For sure. There are things I miss too, like magical express and purchase delivery to your room. I’m still holding out hope they bring back purchase delivery, but the others I’ve kind of accepted aren’t coming back and I just make the best of it. We don’t visit often though so there’s usually quite a few changes by the time we come. I don’t even bother to learn about some of them until closer as I assume it will probably change again

Theme parks sold out but Disney can't fill the hotels. With a myriad of affordable lodging options in the area and NO extras for staying on property (Early entry for deluxe resorts!!) it is no wonder. If I have to carry my packages anyway, might as well carry them off property where it is cheaper.
When visitors came in on Magical Express they were on property for the length of the visit. Now that they have to rent a car might as well spend a day or 2 at Universal, go to the outlets etc. I cannot believe that the savings realized by dropping these saves in the long run.

 

[Violetee]

Yes, here we are with a multipass product whose cost is fairly negligible in relation to the cost of the overall trip.

Having only the premier pass would make the cost of the product out of reach for most people, and the backlash would be swift and immense, in my opinion.

My point wasn’t really the cost, it was more of what many people thought would never be charged for is now being charged for.
The price may be negligible to you, but for many a WDW trip is very expensive and they can’t afford an extra $100 here and there during their vacation.

The premier pass as if now is for Deluxe guests so one could say the cost is negligible for them as well.
I think this will definitely be one of those things people who can afford it will gladly pay for.

 

[jennab]

Theme parks sold out but Disney can't fill the hotels. With a myriad of affordable lodging options in the area and NO extras for staying on property (Early entry for deluxe resorts!!) it is no wonder. If I have to carry my packages anyway, might as well carry them off property where it is cheaper.
When visitors came in on Magical Express they were on property for the length of the visit. Now that they have to rent a car might as well spend a day or 2 at Universal, go to the outlets etc. I cannot believe that the savings realized by dropping these saves in the long run.

I thought some resorts were still sold out? Also early entry is for all resort guests, it’s late night extended hours that are for deluxe guests only. I believe you can also book the new multi pass 7 days in advance now if on site. So guess that goes towards them adding a benefit back for onsite! But yes, taking away onsite benefits will push people to stay offsite.

 

[Minnie1222]

Disney can easily fill their deluxe hotels by dropping the price. There has to be a reason why the rates are kept steadily high. Maybe it’s more beneficial for them that way.

 

[jennab]

Disney can easily fill their deluxe hotels by dropping the price. There has to be a reason why the rates are kept steadily high. Maybe it’s more beneficial for them that way.

One theory is to make DVC purchase look like a “value”. If Disney lowers the price of their deluxe resorts then why would people buy DVC?

 

[rlk]

I'm curious if the seven-day booking window will work like the LLSP & LLMP for split stays.

 

[Brian Noble]

Disney can't fill the hotels

Their occupancy rates are still very strong. In 2023, domestic occupancy across all hotels was 85%; that doesn't include DVC (which is quite a bit higher). Most hotel operators would kill for that---the average is in the mid-60s. However, for Disney, 85% is not good.

https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/app/uploads/2024/02/2023-Annual-Report.pdf

Disney can easily fill their deluxe hotels by dropping the price. There has to be a reason why the rates are kept steadily high. Maybe it’s more beneficial for them that way.

You don't want the hotel to be completely full, and you certainly don't want to sell too many rooms at lower-than-necessary costs.

 

[Sykes]

One theory is to make DVC purchase look like a “value”. If Disney lowers the price of their deluxe resorts then why would people buy DVC?

IMO, it's simpler than that. 75% occupancy at a $500 average nightly rate yields more revenue than 90% occupancy at a $400 average nightly rate, and the profit difference is even more substantial when you consider the lower costs associated with not servicing the other 15% of rooms. Airlines are somewhat adept at extracting the most revenue possible from each individual customer despite a heavily commoditized product (e.g. by charging differently based on purchase date, stay length, etc.), but that's much more difficult to do with hotels so I suspect they'd rather sacrifice occupancy rate to keep the individual room yield high. (It doesn't help that Disney seems to have one of the least sophisticated systems for hotel yield management in the industry.)

 

[angelmav]

Theme parks sold out but Disney can't fill the hotels. With a myriad of affordable lodging options in the area and NO extras for staying on property (Early entry for deluxe resorts!!) it is no wonder. If I have to carry my packages anyway, might as well carry them off property where it is cheaper.
When visitors came in on Magical Express they were on property for the length of the visit. Now that they have to rent a car might as well spend a day or 2 at Universal, go to the outlets etc. I cannot believe that the savings realized by dropping these saves in the long run.

The Magic Express being dropped is why I would never book a Disney resort vs just staying at Shades of Green. If they still had it, I’d book a package to include dining through Disney, but since I have to find my own ride anyway, I just stick with Shades (which I love and Is a better deal anyway). That was the deal breaker for accommodation for me.

 

[Jrb1979]

This is us. We got off the waitlist for a VIP tour for our one-day trip last week and I honestly considered it for a hot second before realizing that the price is preposterous, especially for our touring group of 4. Ultimately, it's the same cost as a whole additional 5 day trip, which we're now taking in December. I did see a bunch of plaids out that day, though, some who only had couples in their charge. And I know families who go to WDW rarely but who only ever go with a VIP guide, so this offering is unlikely to appeal to them. But for us, it's a perfect if costly in-between offering for when we choose WDW over UO/IOA. I prefer the privacy and the ability to pop into shops or meals, or deal with longer than average lightning lanes or pre shows without feeling like a 500/hr meter is running.



In tech there is a term for this that I can't print here, in PG terms it's "enpoopification". In other words, intentionally making a system or UI overly complex, onerous, or time-consuming, and then offering users a way to buy their way out of dealing with it. TSA Precheck lines are a good example. FP+ required advance knowledge and research, but the system was user-friendly when it didn't glitch. Boarding passes for ROTR were a bit trickier because you had to be scanned into the park, but they were still free and right there on the loading screen. Whoever designed Genie+ and now LLMP/SP, on the other hand, deserves to be fired. But they're probably getting a raise instead for designing something so aggravating people will pay $400 per person not to have to use it. Talk about failing up.

IMO it has nothing to do with the people who designed the system at all. The problem always goes back to lack of capacity. There isn't enough attractions for the amount of guests who have any of these systems. It's a major reason why they limit it to riding things once.

The only way to make it work is less guests using it or add a lot more attractions.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

IMO it has nothing to do with the people who designed the system at all. The problem always goes back to lack of capacity. There isn't enough attractions for the amount of guests who have any of these systems. It's a major reason why they limit it to riding things once.

The only way to make it work is less guests using it or add a lot more attractions.

I'm going to offer a different perspective and this is only because I just got back from Japan. But it plays into your last statement, for which I agree with you.

There they have DPA (Disney Premier Access) which is a paid per ride system or paid per show or parade you CAN rebook for the same attraction on the same day; they do limit you to one DPA for the same show or parade per day.

They also have a 40th anniversary pass which is like Legacy FP and FP+ in that it is free. That also allows you to rebook for the same attraction.

They also have Standby Pass (used really for Fantasy Springs right now) of which you can rebook for the same attraction.

At Tokyo Disneyland presently only 3 attractions are DPA, there are several parades and shows. At DisneySea there are 7 attractions that have DPA but 1 is not available presently with the attraction on refurb and 3 are in Fantasy Springs (which has special rules for access to that new area and these were only added as of June with the land opening).

However, the big difference at Tokyo Disneyland and DisneySea is that guests ARE willing to wait in long lines (and you'd never think popcorn lines could get that long but wowza) thereby freeing up capacity for those who wish to purchase DPA. There absolutely are attractions that sell out and some sell out fast but having experienced that park and thinking to the U.S. parks while not having enough capacity is a major issue it's more of a major issue because so many guests are unwilling these days (and IMO through not much fault of their own due to how Disney has trained them) to wait in lines. So the demand outstrips the capacity and would still outstrip the capacity even if more things were added. They kinda need a lessened interest in skipping the line in order for any additional capacity added to have a visible effect or they would need to massively increase capacity whilst maintaining the current interest of skipping the line without increasing the interest.

 

[jennab]

However, the big difference at Tokyo Disneyland and DisneySea is that guests ARE willing to wait in long lines (and you'd never think popcorn lines could get that long but wowza) thereby freeing up capacity for those who wish to purchase DPA.

To bring up another point, we as a society have lost patience. I’m sure many of us waited in longer lines as a kid and that was just how it was. You wanted to go on a ride you had to wait and find stuff to do in line with friends or family. Now no one wants to wait. We want everything fast and we don’t want to pay a premium for it either.

 

[Smugpugmug]

To bring up another point, we as a society have lost patience. I’m sure many of us waited in longer lines as a kid and that was just how it was. You wanted to go on a ride you had to wait and find stuff to do in line with friends or family. Now no one wants to wait. We want everything fast and we don’t want to pay a premium for it either.

I do agree in general though I think this is especially true for Disney guests vs guests going to other theme parks. If I'm going to a Six Flags park (or an equivalent), I'm not buying the skip the line pass and I'm perfectly content waiting in line. So are most people from my experience. Last year I went to Busch Gardens Tampa and I saw maybe ~30 people use Quick Queue during my 2 day visit. I do think Disney providing free Fastpass for so long has conditioned guests that they are entitled to low-no waits whenever they go to Disney and that simply isn't the case anymore.

 

[jennab]

I do agree in general though I think this is especially true for Disney guests vs guests going to other theme parks. If I'm going to a Six Flags park (or an equivalent), I'm not buying the skip the line pass and I'm perfectly content waiting in line. So are most people from my experience. Last year I went to Busch Gardens Tampa and I saw maybe ~30 people use Quick Queue during my 2 day visit. I do think Disney providing free Fastpass for so long has conditioned guests that they are entitled to low-no waits whenever they go to Disney and that simply isn't the case anymore.

I think it’s more than just at Disney. Even in traffic, it’s like people are less patient than they used to be. We live in the world of no commercials, same day delivery, and being able to pay for quicker access.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I think it’s more than just at Disney. Even in traffic, it’s like people are less patient than they used to be. We live in the world of no commercials, same day delivery, and being able to pay for quicker access.

True. I mean, you can basically pay for a skip the line service for airport security (granted you do need to do an interview and give them a ton of info but still).

 

[jennab]

True. I mean, you can basically pay for a skip the line service for airport security (granted you do need to do an interview and give them a ton of info but still).

Yes! Lots of pay to not wait programs. Even with driving many cities have a lane that you can pay to use during high rush hour times. Just the way the world is going it seems. To some people it may be worth to pay for faster access, whereas others it’s not.