Little League title taken away

[MickeySP]

I find it very sad for these kids. There is no better answer than removing the title but they still worked hard and played hard. They still earned the wins.

The kids earned a win but it was with a cherry picked team not a team that represented their district. My DS played LL in a large league in Boston, they were divided by a draft into American, National & Central leagues. The end of the year each league fielded an All Star team, they played for the right to get to Bristol & the LLWS. You could only play in your league, no crossing from American to National or Central. My DS made it to Bristol but lost there. Now if we could have had players cross over we would have had a powerhouse of an All Star team & quite possibly made it to LLWS. That however would be so wrong, and breaking a huge rule. Believe me after a whole season all the parents knew who was who in the league if they were any good, so to suddenly have kids from different teams you may have played during regular season show up on your All Star team - they all knew what was going on. Well unless their heads were buried in the sane or.....

Does anyone know how many players were ineligible? One, a few?
Also, did Evergreen Park call them out in the name of "fairness," or did this directly affect Evergreen, such as... one of the JRW ineligible players would have/should have played on the Evergreen All Star team?

It appears to be just that. They poached player/s from EP & other districts that were not eligible to play for the team.

 

[soccerdad72]

Didn't any of these folks watch The Mighty Ducks? Don't mess with District 5

 

[Keli]

I am ashamed of that team and their cheating. The team officials should be ashamed of themselves for their actions. They harmed not only the team they illegally put together but also the boys who should have been in that spot whoever they may have been and whatever team it might have been. And the fact they aren't ashamed, and instead are defending their actions only makes it worse. Their greatest harm may be in their reactions to being caught. If you do wrong stand up like a man and admit it and make a sincere apology to all that you have harmed by your actions. At least by showing courage and repentance you can show those boys how to own up to your actions and how to handle it when you've blown it big time. I think they are creating a group of boys that feel like they are the victim of the little league organization rather than the victim (or willing participants depending on their knowledge of the situation, I am going to assume the boys had no clue) of their team's administration and any other adults who knew what was happening and didn't report them during the season.

 

[Rylee]

I am ashamed of that team and their cheating. The team officials should be ashamed of themselves for their actions. They harmed not only the team they illegally put together but also the boys who should have been in that spot whoever they may have been and whatever team it might have been. And the fact they aren't ashamed, and instead are defending their actions only makes it worse. Their greatest harm may be in their reactions to being caught. If you do wrong stand up like a man and admit it and make a sincere apology to all that you have harmed by your actions. At least by showing courage and repentance you can show those boys how to own up to your actions and how to handle it when you've blown it big time. I think they are creating a group of boys that feel like they are the victim of the little league organization rather than the victim (or willing participants depending on their knowledge of the situation, I am going to assume the boys had no clue) of their team's administration and any other adults who knew what was happening and didn't report them during the season.

Nice post.

 

[robinb]

I found some more information about how this happened. Apparently JRW drafted kids using a gerrymandered map that was "approved" by District 4 and sent to the Little League. The catch is that the map was not approved by the teams in the district that lost territory (Roseland, Rosemoor and South Side leagues) so it was really not valid. So, when LL looked into possible improprieties the names and addresses matched the district map of record. What is interesting to me, is that the leagues that lost kids to JRW knew it but didn't say anything. They didn't want to make waves and they "let it go".

Enter Chris Janes, the Evergreen Park coach/District 7 vice-president. He did his own sleuthing checking driver's licenses and voting records. His team is in a completely different District and his kids were not poached. I don't know exactly why he pushed for a thorough investigation. It could be that he just wanted things to be "fair", of it could be sour grapes or it could be something else.

I lived on the Southwest side of Chicago for 8 years. I went to high school in Chicago and and still have family there and friends there. I have to say that I wouldn't be so sure that Rev. Jackson is wrong. The Southwest area of Chicago (the Beverly & Mount Greenwood neighborhoods) are very, very, white. Lots of police officers and firemen live there because they are required to live in the city. Evergreen Park itself is 89% white. There are many people, both young and old, who still hold very strong prejudices against African Americans. I have heard the n-word used by neighbors on my sister's street more than once. Recently. I'm not saying that his motivation was racism, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was given what I know about the area.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/360737/jackie-robinson-west-title-vacated

 

[Geoff_M]

I don't know exactly why he pushed for a thorough investigation. It could be that he just wanted things to be "fair", of it could be sour grapes or it could be something else.

Say your worst fears are right and what Janes did was out of nothing more than racial spite... Would that make what JRW appears to have done any more "right" or "wrong"??? If not, when why would the intentions matter one bit?

 

[JanaDee]

I found some more information about how this happened. Apparently JRW drafted kids using a gerrymandered map that was "approved" by District 4 and sent to the Little League. The catch is that the map was not approved by the teams in the district that lost territory (Roseland, Rosemoor and South Side leagues) so it was really not valid. So, when LL looked into possible improprieties the names and addresses matched the district map of record. What is interesting to me, is that the leagues that lost kids to JRW knew it but didn't say anything. They didn't want to make waves and they "let it go".

Enter Chris Janes, the Evergreen Park coach/District 7 vice-president. He did his own sleuthing checking driver's licenses and voting records. His team is in a completely different District and his kids were not poached. I don't know exactly why he pushed for a thorough investigation. It could be that he just wanted things to be "fair", of it could be sour grapes or it could be something else.

I lived on the Southwest side of Chicago for 8 years. I went to high school in Chicago and and still have family there and friends there. I have to say that I wouldn't be so sure that Rev. Jackson is wrong. The Southwest area of Chicago (the Beverly & Mount Greenwood neighborhoods) are very, very, white. Lots of police officers and firemen live there because they are required to live in the city. Evergreen Park itself is 89% white. There are many people, both young and old, who still hold very strong prejudices against African Americans. I have heard the n-word used by neighbors on my sister's street more than once. Recently. I'm not saying that his motivation was racism, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was given what I know about the area.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/360737/jackie-robinson-west-title-vacated

They cheated and got caught. End of story.

 

[pryncess527]

Say your worst fears are right and what Janes did was out of nothing more than racial spite... Would that make what JRW appears to have done any more "right" or "wrong"??? If not, when why would the intentions matter one bit?

Exactly. I don't care that the first leagues did not want to make waves and let it go -- frankly, that was wrong too . I don't care WHY someone else pushed for an investigation. All that really matters is that the investigation is conducted honestly, and the results of that investigation.

 

[luvsJack]

Not saying that it was racial or that anything about what they did was ok but y'all are honestly saying that you see nothing wrong with someone doing this out of racial spite? That the end result justifies it?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Not saying that it was racial or that anything about what they did was ok but y'all are honestly saying that you see nothing wrong with someone doing this out of racial spite? That the end result justifies it?

Did they break the rules?
Yes.

If the team was white, would we be having this conversation?


Race not a factor. Period.
Trying to blame it on race in a ploy for sympathy.

The team cheated. They were busted. The end.

Proving the coach was a member of the KKK won't undo the cheating.

In fact, with all this focus and the paper trial indicating that this was reported during regular season was race the reason to let it slide? If you want to go there, then the flip side must be true.

 

[nugov2]

Does anyone know how many players were ineligible? One, a few?

Also, did Evergreen Park call them out in the name of "fairness," or did this directly affect Evergreen, such as... one of the JRW ineligible players would have/should have played on the Evergreen All Star team?

Evergreen park is a suburb that borders the City. They are being very tight lipped about how many are out of the boundaries and what area they are actually from. Jessie Jackson is trying to play the some players are homeless and that is what they are not meeting the boundary requirements bull.

This article IMO sums up the situation pretty good.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/02...tinue-to-fail-jrw-kids/#.VN0gi_6Rin4.facebook

 

[nugov2]

I found some more information about how this happened. Apparently JRW drafted kids using a gerrymandered map that was "approved" by District 4 and sent to the Little League. The catch is that the map was not approved by the teams in the district that lost territory (Roseland, Rosemoor and South Side leagues) so it was really not valid. So, when LL looked into possible improprieties the names and addresses matched the district map of record. What is interesting to me, is that the leagues that lost kids to JRW knew it but didn't say anything. They didn't want to make waves and they "let it go".

Enter Chris Janes, the Evergreen Park coach/District 7 vice-president. He did his own sleuthing checking driver's licenses and voting records. His team is in a completely different District and his kids were not poached. I don't know exactly why he pushed for a thorough investigation. It could be that he just wanted things to be "fair", of it could be sour grapes or it could be something else.

I lived on the Southwest side of Chicago for 8 years. I went to high school in Chicago and and still have family there and friends there. I have to say that I wouldn't be so sure that Rev. Jackson is wrong. The Southwest area of Chicago (the Beverly & Mount Greenwood neighborhoods) are very, very, white. Lots of police officers and firemen live there because they are required to live in the city. Evergreen Park itself is 89% white. There are many people, both young and old, who still hold very strong prejudices against African Americans. I have heard the n-word used by neighbors on my sister's street more than once. Recently. I'm not saying that his motivation was racism, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was given what I know about the area.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/360737/jackie-robinson-west-title-vacated

The guy who filed the complaint is married to an african american and has two children with her. I highly doubt he is a racist.

 

[Geoff_M]

Not saying that it was racial or that anything about what they did was ok but y'all are honestly saying that you see nothing wrong with someone doing this out of racial spite? That the end result justifies it?

Doing the right thing for the wrong reason doesn't make a "right" thing a "wrong" thing... at worst, you withhold praise for the action. You can even shun the guy if you want to, but that shouldn't (even if the accusations of the motives are true) cause LL to tell JRW "In the name of racial harmony, we'll overlook your transgressions and give you your title back because Janes only turned you in because he doesn't like persons-of-color!!!"

 

[sunshine1178]

It's been reported that Evergreen has some "unflattering truths of their own"? I haven't seen those. That is what, I assume, Declansdad was questioning (and what I question myself). Not the fact that they were the ones that reported the violation.

Unflattering alleged truth #1 - Evergreen Park also played fast and loose with residency requirements. http://chicago.suntimes.com/basebal...de-mom-says-evergreen-park-recruiting-players

And Evergreen Park's explanation of how their boundary violations were okay, but JRW's weren't. http://chicago.suntimes.com/basebal...rk-whistleblower-answers-allegations-cheating

 

[Jennasis]

Such a sad situation all around. I feel bad for the kids on the team and the ones on the runner up team.

 

[nugov2]

Unflattering alleged truth #1 - Evergreen Park also played fast and loose with residency requirements. http://chicago.suntimes.com/basebal...de-mom-says-evergreen-park-recruiting-players

And Evergreen Park's explanation of how their boundary violations were okay, but JRW's weren't. http://chicago.suntimes.com/basebal...rk-whistleblower-answers-allegations-cheating

That has nothing to do with if JRW cheated. Like the pp poster stated, this guy can be the worst human being in the world, but it doesn't change the fact that they cheated and do not deserve the title. They didn't win it fair and square. They stacked a team of top level players. Go play in a travel league if that is the kind of team you want. Just b/c EP is doing it doesn't excuse JRW. They should all be penalized if that is the case, but EP also being cheaters doesn't help JRW case or change the fact that they don't deserve the title.

 

[Geoff_M]

So they're now pivoting to the "But everybody does it!" excuse???

If the neighboring league did it too... then sanction them both.

On a related note, I found the Mayor of Chicago's response to LL appalling!

The mayor says he told the baseball official it was unfair to punish the young players. Emanuel argues even in college sports, regulators may opt for suspending somebody, rather than invalidating a title.

Another argument Emanuel says he used was the positive story fostered by Chicago’s underdog Little League team.

“To be direct to you, Little League baseball,” Emanuel says he told Keener, “you were also a beneficiary of their narrative and their story, and you should take that into account.”

This action also isn't unprecidented:

An investigation found the JRW’s adult leadership conspired to alter boundaries, allowing the team to improperly add star players from the suburbs.

Little League International has stripped the title from two other teams in the past for violating the tournament’s rules.

Also this year, a team in Georgia was disqualified from the regional tournament and had its state championship taken away for violating age rules. The team placed too many 12-year-olds on the roster.

The Little League World Series is played by 11- and 12-year-olds, but only eight of the 14 players on the roster can be 12. The Georgia team had 10.

LL takes a pretty evenhanded approach... if you play with ineligible players, you're DQ'ed. Period.

 

[nugov2]

So they're now pivoting to the "But everybody does it!" excuse???

If the neighboring league did it too... then sanction them both.

On a related note, I found the Mayor of Chicago's response to LL appalling!


This action also isn't unprecidented:LL takes a pretty evenhanded approach... if you play with ineligible players, you're DQ'ed. Period.

It is also being said one of the kids came from a town called Lansing which is 27 miles from the city of Chicago.

 

[sunshine1178]

It is also being said one of the kids came from a town called Lansing which is 27 miles from the city of Chicago.

I do see that one route on Google maps shows 27 miles between Chicago and Lansing, and city center to city center, it might be. Google maps also shows that Evergreen Park is 14 miles from Chicago, but the EP coach is quoted in the article as saying that his city is an island surrounded by Chicago. So, we can see for ourselves that geographic terms are not as absolute as might be assumed at first glance.

 

[nugov2]

I do see that one route on Google maps shows 27 miles between Chicago and Lansing, and city center to city center, it might be. Google maps also shows that Evergreen Park is 14 miles from Chicago, but the EP coach is quoted in the article as saying that his city is an island surrounded by Chicago. So, we can see for ourselves that geographic terms are not as absolute as might be assumed at first glance.

I am speaking form personal experience. I lived in the area as a child. In that area only a block can separate a suburb from Chicago, but Lansing isn't even close to being on the border of chicago. It is closer to the state of Indiana than Chicago. I'm not speaking based on google maps, I know. At the end of the day though it doesn't matter, either way they violated policy and that makes them cheaters. That means they didn't earn that title no matter how good the kids play. You want an all star team have your child play on a travel league, don't lie and use them as pawns and act as if they accomplished something great. A lot of other teams could have beat them if they could cherry pick their teams.