Line cutting and fast pass problems...

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jerry557

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I was at Disney this past week and for the most part was a great trip. But I have noticed that the cutting in line seems to be a growing problem at WDW. There must have been probably at least one incident of cutting at practically every attraction I was at and seems to be increasing.
-There were two incidents in the line to Mad Hatter's Tea Party that nearly resulted in a fight. (there were two incidents of fighting in that line the past two months due to people being accused of cutting in line).
-There was an issue at Test Track where a group of at least 5 cut ahead of everyone by going through the single rider line and then joining the party at the end.
-And the "person holding my place in line" is used all over the place. And sometimes I have noticed there is no other person in line holding their place. They move ahead in order to find a spot where someone isn't paying attention and just squeeze in there.

It seems what people are also starting to do is break up their party while one goes and gets fast passes. For example, one person gets a fast pass for the whole party while that party waits in line at another attraction. The person with the fast passes then cuts in line to re-join their party. And when I was talking to one cast member about this she agreed that the lines were not designed to work that way and if a large number of people do it, it makes the wait time longer and also makes the estimated wait time wrong since the computer can not accuratly measure the length of the line.

Solution to this is probably do what Busch Gardens does when someone cuts in line, they get thrown out of the park and banned from re-entering for the day. This seems to have eliminated that problem at those parks. Disney is supposed to have something similar, but it isn't enforced and cast members dont seem to want to deal with it.

The Fast Pass system is also a mess and is inferior to Universal's "Express Pass" in my opinion. And everyone I've mentioned that to also agrees. Universal seems to have Disney beat when it comes to managing their lines. I know Disney has been looking at several different ways to improve the system, but it really needs a lot of work. And even though they have been testing multiple ideas...they have failed to change the system in any way.

When all fast passes to an attraction are distributed before noon and the standby is 130 minutes....something is wrong. And yes, I saw this twice when I was at WDW this past week. I can't think of any theme park I've ever been to where I would have to wait OVER 2 hours to get on a 3-minute ride. That's insane. And this was before the park was at peek attendance! I can't imagine the wait at 2 or 3pm.... 3 hours?
 
I can't think of any theme park I've ever been to where I would have to wait OVER 2 hours to get on a 3-minute ride.

Was this your first trip to WDW during a PEAK travel time? If you go during a slower time the lines are really a lot easier to tollerate.

As far as people rejoining a group waiting in line. I have had more then one instance when with a younger party member only notices she needed to go to the bathroom after waiting 1/2 hour in a 1 1/2 hour line. Do you suggest the whole party leave the line while I rush the young one to the bathroom, or we just go - come back and rejoin the group. After all, we were in line - we just needed a quick detour. To me people rejoining a group is not a HUGE issue. After all it usually is only 1-2 people - not a huge time difference since they will be riding in the same car as the other family members.

I can see your point with out and out cutters though.
 
Been to Disney multiple times on and off peek times for several years and never saw the lines as long as they have been this past week.

And what I am complaining about is not when one party leaves the line and comes back...its when one goes and gets fast passes at another attraction then cuts in the line to rejoin the party. That's cutting in my opinion.
 
Agree with the Fast Pass issue. I am hoping the 'dream fast passes' are a test to see if they can give out more passes. Every day this week, the 'thrill' rides were out of passes by 2:00 at the latest. Really doesn't make them 'available to anyone'. How many get taken and never used? People should be able to tour the park however they want. Heck, if everyone has to be there by 9:00 in the morning, that messes me up! lol

And if Disney is really getting busier all year, which I think they are, they need to do something about the lines sooner, rather than later. Should they have a different system for summer? Why not. Different seasons, different systems.
 

Agree with the Fast Pass issue. I am hoping the 'dream fast passes' are a test to see if they can give out more passes. Every day this week, the 'thrill' rides were out of passes by 2:00 at the latest. Really doesn't make them 'available to anyone'. How many get taken and never used? People should be able to tour the park however they want. Heck, if everyone has to be there by 9:00 in the morning, that messes me up! lol

And if Disney is really getting busier all year, which I think they are, they need to do something about the lines sooner, rather than later. Should they have a different system for summer? Why not. Different seasons, different systems.

The Dream FastPass is ambigious from TV. They make it seem like you can get in the FastPass lane for any ride. You actually get 6 "tickets", one for each big ride. You can use them whenver you want for thatday, but that's it.
 
People cutting back in line to join their party does not effect the computer time outside. People regularly go through the line with the red 'markers' to justify the time - the person re-joining their family is essentially irrelevant to the rides wait time.

The reason I have not been back to Universal in 3 years in their completely inferior 'fastpass' system. WDW has the best system going - not even close. My opinions may not agree with some others, but the vast majority of the people I know that go would agree with me.
 
To put my two cents in...I have no problem with the joining my family thing....as long as there is a family or group to really join... But, I dont' like line cutting either.....How does disney stop it? We already know that people will do it...so unfortunately we can't count on them just stopping. And I'm just asking questions...how do you differentiate between people who are really joining a family or group vs. those that are just saying it without having a CM on the line every few feet. I'm just talking out loud. Maybe they need undercover line cutting police on the WDW lines...ok I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's a thought. :lmao:

Seriously....its' unfortunate that people feel that they have the right to cut in line.
 
To put my two cents in...I have no problem with the joining my family thing....as long as there is a family or group to really join... But, I dont' like line cutting either.....How does disney stop it? We already know that people will do it...so unfortunately we can't count on them just stopping. And I'm just asking questions...how do you differentiate between people who are really joining a family or group vs. those that are just saying it without having a CM on the line every few feet. I'm just talking out loud. Maybe they need undercover line cutting police on the WDW lines...ok I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's a thought. :lmao:

Seriously....its' unfortunate that people feel that they have the right to cut in line.

Don't know - haven't seen anyone cut in line intentionally in my trips in the last few years - a few time for characters, but not the rides. I have seen numerous times where someone re-joined their family..... some might have issues with this, but I'm perfectly ok with it.
 
I'm gonna have to agree with you. One time 2 people were standing in line and about 15 people jumped in with them. Then a few minutes later like 7 or 8 kids cut with their friends. Then someone screamed "Isn't anyone gonna stand in line anymore?" So I screamed "YEAH!" haha. If someone line cuts I say something. I haven't said anything if some of their party is there, but if they just cut, then I'm gonna have to say something.
 
The "I'm rejoining my family/friends/neighbors/long-lost uncle" ploy is getting more and more common with people who don't actually have anyone waiting for them in the line.

I can't say that USF/IOA's Express lines are any better tho'. We have Premier passes so we use those lines a lot, and the jumping is rampant. People seem to know when they quit doing a second check. It's particularly bad at Mummy, where they can jump in by the lockers, and when my husband did a solo visit last week he saw people jump Express every time he rode Hulk.
 
Don't know - haven't seen anyone cut in line intentionally in my trips in the last few years - a few time for characters, but not the rides. I have seen numerous times where someone re-joined their family..... some might have issues with this, but I'm perfectly ok with it.

I have witnessed an all out fight :duck: between parents of children who are waiting to see characters! It's just plain ridiculous and for goodness sakes what are we teaching the children? That's the kids that grow up to be the line cutters and think it's their right to do so. :worried:
 
In April, when we were getting in line for Space Mountain, a large group of teens were in front of us, at least 10 of them. One girl asked if 2 of them could hold the place in line while the other kids went on a different ride. The CM told her sure, and that he would just let the others come through the FastPass line when they got there. I complained to the CM (nicely) and was told that his instructions were to give everyone a Magical experience. Their 'Magical Experience" left me a bit grumpy. 5 of the group tried to join their 2 friends about 10 feet from the last turnstile before your board the ride. I and several other prople wouldn't allow them to go in front of us. They ended up about 20 people behind their 2 friends. The 2 friends could have decided to go back 20 people and join their other friends, but they didn't want to do that.
 
Agree with the Fast Pass issue. I am hoping the 'dream fast passes' are a test to see if they can give out more passes. Every day this week, the 'thrill' rides were out of passes by 2:00 at the latest. Really doesn't make them 'available to anyone'. How many get taken and never used? People should be able to tour the park however they want. Heck, if everyone has to be there by 9:00 in the morning, that messes me up! lol

And if Disney is really getting busier all year, which I think they are, they need to do something about the lines sooner, rather than later. Should they have a different system for summer? Why not. Different seasons, different systems.


Not only that...but Disney constantly pushes their "park hopper" ticket options. What is the point of park hopping if the park you are hopping to is out of fast passes for most of their attractions before you even get there? It seems if you arn't there at the rope drop at 9am sharp....you just screwed up your day.
 
I just returned from WDW yesterday and I agree that the "line" system is not working...however, part of that is because on some of the rides (particularly at Epcot) the lines move into "roundups" and people feel like they have the right to push and elbow their way to a better position in the group. While in line for Mission Space, the CM actually made the announcement that if the people in front of you weren't filling in all the available spaces, you were to push past them. :scared1: The massing style of "line" in Soarin is also ridiculous. It is truly a situation of push, shove, elbow, and sneak trying to get ahead of others. I absolutely love this ride but 130+ minute wait time is shear insanity. And this past Tuesday (one of those insanely busy days) one of the "million dreams" awards gave a family a ride on Soarin alone...just those 4 or 5 folks on the ride alone...with all those empty seats and all those people waiting in the cue. I don't really understand why they didn't just seat them front and center and then fill in the rest of the theater. People were not happy at waiting for the ride to run essentially empty.

Unfortunately with only 3 thrill types rides in the whole park they are overwhelmed by the volume of people descending on them.
 
I can't think of any theme park I've ever been to where I would have to wait OVER 2 hours to get on a 3-minute ride. That's insane. And this was before the park was at peek attendance! I can't imagine the wait at 2 or 3pm.... 3 hours?

Lucky for you you haven't been to Six Flags Magic Mountain near LA. I was there, admittedly a long time ago (back in the '80s), where I waited 3 hours for one stupid stand up roller coaster (I can't even remember the name, it's now been long removed) and another 90 minutes or was it two hours for the a different coaster. Sheesh, slap me upside the head and call me stupid. Never, ever again.

The Six Flags closest to us (Six Flags New England) has "fast lane" (which I think they renamed this year to somethng else) which costs extra...since we only go once a year, it's worth it to pay the extra $15/pp or so not to have to wait in the usual insane lines. I've read a lot on various web boards about line jumping there, but I've never seen it.
 
I don't mind if someone left with their child to use the restroom and then gets back in line, but I hate when people get in line while the dad/ kid or whomever are off getting fastpasses or parking the stroller or whatnot. I think that is line cutting.
You were never on line, I don't care if someone you know is in line, YOU weren't so you are cutting.

That has happened inadvertantly to us(thought DH was right behind me, but he was parking the stroller) I stepped aside and let everyone between us go in front of me and I joined DH where he was not vice versa. Thought it was just common sense.
Wait outide the line for your whole party to be together.
 
I just returned from WDW yesterday and I agree that the "line" system is not working...however, part of that is because on some of the rides (particularly at Epcot) the lines move into "roundups" and people feel like they have the right to push and elbow their way to a better position in the group. While in line for Mission Space, the CM actually made the announcement that if the people in front of you weren't filling in all the available spaces, you were to push past them.

I guess I really don't understand the problem with this ~~ The announcement is made to "fill in all available space" and people continue to stand in a line. I'm sorry they don't understand the concept, but maybe when they see others "go past" them to stand in the empty space they'll get it for the next time at another attraction!! The CM is perfectly correct in telling people to move up and "fill in all the space".
 
Well, I can say as a former attractions cast member, that the fast pass system needs some work. I think that the amount of fast passes distributed is a bit high. If they distributed less then (obviously) the stand by queue wouldn't yield such a long wait. As far as people "holding places in line" I don't see a problem with it and its definitely not cutting. So what if they stepped out of line and came back. you're going to wait the same amount of time whether they are there the whole time or if they come back later. They are drastically improving their day by putting in the legwork and getting fast passes during these times, and no one is stopping you from doing it. I understand the frustration because you don't know that you are actually further back thank you think until the rest of the party returns. Bottom line, whether they are there the whole time or not, your wait will be the same.
 
It's not the issue of asking people to fill in the spaces...it's the word choice of "push past" that concerned me. This whole massing and surging can be more than a little frightening and quite frankly, I don't want to get hip to hip and pelvis to butt with sweaty strangers. I value my personal space and get ticked that I'm being herded like cattle into a tiny stall.

Also, I don't understand how it is effecient to take a managed line, then mass everyone in a squished group only to have the people try and get back into a line. The "I'm going to be the first one in this new line" mode takes over for a lot of people and it's elbows and shoulders and pushing hands...anymore I just try to huddle in the very back of any "pack" to avoid the smush of the crowd trying to surge to reorganize the line again.
 
My thoughts on this.

After working for both companies (WDW, Universal) I agree that Universal's "skip the line system" is a bit better.

Most would disagree because it costs more, but think like this...

In Disney, EVERYONE is entitled to a FastPass... EVERYONE! This means that basically, for every major attraction, there are 2 lines coming at the "merge" area. The ratios for this area are insane. In the attraction I worked at Disney, the FP ratios were to allow 9 stand by guests, then 50 FP guests. Soarin, I've heard, is even worse.

If fastpass wasn't there, I could let 60 standby guests go.

And, since it's free, the line is always long and backed up, because everyone has a FP.

At Universal, yes, the Express Pass is more money, but think like this. I don't know if you all know this, but the Express Pass is only good one time at each attraction. We mark them with a symbol from each ride (H for hulk, SP for spiderman...).

So if it's only good once in each express line, then yes, the express lines are long in the morning, but by the afternoon, their are barely anyone in them, basically just the resort guests (who get unlimited express with their room key).

It makes it nicer for them, and keeps the express line short, which means more standby guests can get onto the attraction.

I hope this made sense.
 
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