Letter to my son's Asst. Principal re: paddling UPDATED Pg 14!

[daisax]

This "paddling" nonsense wasn't permitted in my GRANDPARENTS' day up here. Of course back then educators had a sense of proportion, and a menacing "don't EVER do that again" probably would suffice. Any school principal who can't verbally intimidate a 6 year old into not repeating bad behavior is in the wrong profession.

I'd make it clear that you consider physical discipline assault and battery and will react accordingly. The law may be on their side, but the national media won't be, and things could get reeeeeeally ugly. (For both of you, so decide if you want to endure it before you call it down on yourself)

This is the kind of outrageous law that only gets changed when conscientious people expose it to public ridicule.

 

[taximomfor4]

a "Zerbert" is when you put your mouth on someone's bare belly and do the loud "bbbbbbblphbbbbbb!" Spitty thing on their skin.

 

[happygirl]

This "paddling" nonsense wasn't permitted in my GRANDPARENTS' day up here. Of course back then educators had a sense of proportion, and a menacing "don't EVER do that again" probably would suffice. Any school principal who can't verbally intimidate a 6 year old into not repeating bad behavior is in the wrong profession.

I'd make it clear that you consider physical discipline assault and battery and will react accordingly. The law may be on their side, but the national media won't be, and things could get reeeeeeally ugly. (For both of you, so decide if you want to endure it before you call it down on yourself)

This is the kind of outrageous law that only gets changed when conscientious people expose it to public ridicule.

I'm not sure the media would be on the OP side. kids get kicked out of school for what her kid did. (stupid I know) but the media never really has a fit over it

 

[Mermaid02]

I would call, not send a letter- why? to assess who I was dealing with. Some people would respect that letter and some would make sure your son did get paddled just to show how powerful they were. Unless you already know this guy it could have an opposite reaction if he's power tripping.
If you call you can take it slowly and figure him out

I agree- I would go in and meet face to face with the Principal/Vice Principal and possibly the teacher who witnessed the event (just to hear firsthand what happened) What your son did would be considered sexual harassment here- yes even in kindergarten- and he most likely would have been suspended. BUT paddled? I don't think so.

I would make it very CLEAR to the Principal that under NO circumstances are they to paddle my child or even entertain the thought.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Guys, for all of you who are suggesting making a big stink. . .well, it's probably a regional thing. She has to live in her community, and if it's anything like small town Louisiana, that will be well nigh to impossible if she makes a stink. You make stinks in larger cities and places that have more college degrees on the ground and more folks who aren't. . .well.

Also, the law is not on OP's side. It's not been deemed unconstitutional; it's not been considered abusive - even when bruises have been left on kids - and no, the school doesn't need her permission or have to accept her request not to spank her child. (20 minutes of Googling. There are a LOT of people who are appalled about paddling in school and they have websites.) And in Arkansas? I hate to say it, but I just don't think the local news will care - they have a different bias from a local news in a different region, remember.

The best route, I'd say that will allow the poster to live in her community and to keep her kid from getting paddled is to first talk to the administrator - no threats, no hidden agendas, no anger, no suggestions of how she'll ruin the school if they don't stop paddling. This is what the OP is doing, and it's very, very smart.

Then, if you want to approach it from a tack that will work, culturally, I'd start talking about how YOU are the parent, and YOUR rights as parent are being infringed. The school is telling you how your children should be disciplined! It's not that they paddle, it's that you can't opt out, that the school is mandating how you discipline your child! And you DO discipline your child - he is well behaved etc. etc. (Make sure that's clear! A lot of these folks think no spanking = wild children, which isn't true, of course, but it's what they think.) This puts the issue into terms that people in the community may agree with.

At the same time, I'd start writing my state legislators and the papers in the big cities. Let them know that there is NO opt out, that as a parent, you feel like the school is forcing you to accept disciplinary measures you don't agree with and that you're happy with other measures the school takes, just NOT spanking.

In the meantime, if the principal agrees not to paddle, then your child is good, if he doesn't. . .you're going to have accept that your child may be paddled or your going to have to home school or private school (if there is a private school close by that doesn't paddle or gives you the option to opt out. A lot of private schools paddle way more than public schools, especially in the deep South.)

In a perfect world, there'd be no spanking in schools. The world isn't perfect, I fear.

 

[VillageMama]

This kid is in kindergarten, this is the age in which they are supposed to be LEARNING how to behave in social situations.

Amen!

I guess what just blew me away about this the most is that I wouldn't even discipline this kid and I am the strictest person I know!

You took the words right out of my mouth! I am the strictest person I know and not even I would make a big deal about this.

OP, I'd love to be able to say not to worry, this will blow over and your son will forget about it. But I can still remember the terror that hung over my head throughout elementary school because of threats of paddlings.

I was never actually paddled, just threatened, but I had a plan in place of how I would run out the side door of the school and across the field into the woods and then sneak into my house from the back.

Your poor son needs to be made to feel safe, otherwise this could haunt him for years. Tell him in no uncertain terms that you are working with the principal to make sure that he is never, ever paddled. It will mean a lot to him to know that Mommy and Daddy are in his corner.

And if he can't be made to feel safe, I suggest considering your other educational options.

 

[GEM]

Thanks again for all the comments and thoughts.

Unfortunately, in this part of of the country, most people still believe that a good old fashioned whipping is the answer to most discipline issues with children. Our "no hitting" stance puts us in the minority around here, no question.

By the way, for those that mentioned private school, there are only two in this area and they are both religion based....definitely NOT an option for us. And, because of the particular mindset of the religion they are affiliated with, I know for a fact that both of those schools actually have fewer restrictions on corproal punishment than the public schools do...kind of a "spare the rod and spoil the child" philosophy.

Homeschooling really isn't a good option for Paul, either. He is an only child and very, very social. He LOVES going to school and being with the other kids. He gets up every morning just thrilled to head off to his classroom, music class, lunch in the cafeteria, etc. I think he would be heartbroken if we pulled him out.

Really, my son is a really well behaved little boy. He wants to please, is genuinely upset when he disappoints those in authority, and is very easily disciplined. There's just no need for anyone to hit him. Hopefully we can get this issue straightened out, as I really am very pleased with the school in pretty much every other way.

 

[mjkacmom]

In our school in Arkansas (Bryant) we had to give permission. Of course being originally from NJ I was shocked and said NO!

LOL - I'm from NJ, and I'm shocked! I don't even think the nuns do this anymore! I'm 42, and there was never any physical punishments when I was in school. I seriously had no idea that this was still going on!

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Okay, I didn't read all the responses. Heck I never even made it through your entire first post. But here is my response.

If anyone threatened to paddle my child in school someone in my family would be bailing both DH and I out of jail because we would be in the principal's office making such a HUGE stink that they would have no issue but to call the cops. Call it a regional thing but NO ONE THREATENS OR TOUCHES MY CHILD! Period. End of Statement. This is kindergarten where they are supposed to learn appropriate behavior. My DD is also a hugger. She goes to a small, private school where her behavior was corrected in an appropriate way. If anyone threatened her all hell would have broken loose!!!

Good luck OP. Feel free to move to the northeast. We don't hit kids here.

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Really, my son is a really well behaved little boy. He wants to please, is genuinely upset when he disappoints those in authority, and is very easily disciplined. There's just no need for anyone to hit him. Hopefully we can get this issue straightened out, as I really am very pleased with the school in pretty much every other way.

This describes my DD to a T. We sent her to Catholic school. And NO ONE HITS!! And she even had nuns for the first 3 years. NO ONE HITS, not even the nuns!!

 

[SnowWhite607]

I am a kindergarten TEACHER and would NEVER in a million years dream of spanking a child with a paddle! ITA with the poster who said kindergarten is an age where they are learning how to behave in social situations. This could have been handled in so many different ways.

My child has never been spanked and G-d help the person w ho ever lays a hand on her! I was "disciplined" in Catholic school for sucking my thumb (6 yrs old). I was shy, insecure and my father had just left me and my mother so I was an emotional wreck. It didnt help because I was a thumb sucker for many more years after that. Spanking helps in the short term but I dont believe it really teaches a lesson.

What really chaps my hide is when kids in school or home get spanked for hitting. "DONT HIT" - whack! Makes absolutely no sense to me!

My mother allowed my stepfather to hit me with a belt when I did something that he didnt like. I am 41 years old and remember all the spankings/beatings I got. I swore I would *never* hit my child because I wanted her to think of me as a loving kind parent, not one who inflicts pain for any minor transgression.

 

[C.Ann]

The law in AR seems to leave it up to school boards to decide. Our diistrict requires no parental permission or notification to paddle.

I think it's time to round up some other parents and attend the school board meetings.. This needs to be changed!

 

[Carly_Roach]

One of his challenges has been learning to keep his hands to himself. He's very "touchy" and affectionate....loves to hold hands, kiss, hug, snuggle, tickle, etc. Today he got in big trouble at recess. Apparently, he was playing with a little girl and they were running and chasing and being silly. He lifted up her shirt and tickled her on the belly and gave her a zerbert on her belly.

Mr. ____________,

First, I want to say thank you for contacting me about the incident that occurred on the playground today. I can assure you that I have the utmost respect for school administrators and teachers and the difficult disciplinary decisions you face day in and day out. Paul has known from his first year of pre-school that we expect him to respect his teachers and the school rules in all situations and that the rule in our house is....if you get in trouble at school, you always get in trouble at home as well - no excuses or exceptions. Several times this year I have had him sit down and write a letter of apology (a hugely time consuming activity for a kindergarten student) to Mrs. __________ for various classroom behavior issues.

I've been trying to bite my tongue through all seven pages of this dialogue about the evils of corporal punishment in schools, but a few points keep coming back to mind: What about the little girl in all this? How does she feel (in this day of H1N1) about having Paul's spit all over her tummy? Is she embarassed about a boy pulling up her shirt in front of others and raspberrying her tummy?

If this has been Paul's behavior since pre-school, obviously all of the previous discipline (the letter-writing, the stern "NO" telling) isn't working. His behavior isn't changing. How are the school officials supposed to handle this?

There is a time for gentle discipline, but there's also a time for sterner measures. Gentle discipline wasn't correcting Paul's behavior towards the other students. Perhaps the school's "scare" would have been enough to stop Paul's behavior, but now that "scare" has been negated because mommy has assured Paul that the threat won't actually happen. Even the punishment of missing a birthday party is being rethought.

So what's to stop Paul from doing this again?

I understand your not wanting another person to "lay hands" on your child, but that means you, as a parent, have to do something to correct the behavior. Excusing his behavior as "fun loving" and "not meaning anything by it" means you're not fathoming that the people who are the recipient of your son's "fun loving" actions may not feel that way.

To them, it probably feels like unwanted contact. To the parents of that little girl, it may feel as though your son is targeting her. They may be even angrier than you are that the school isn't doing anything about it.

I'm sorry that this post is probably going against the popular opinion, but I'm flabbergasted that the little girl in the equation hasn't even been thought about or spoken of in seven pages of this thread. Nor has the conduct of Paul been really addressed.

It's all about how horrible a school is for trying to stop one child from enacting unwanted contact on the other children; a skill that we ALL have to learn if we're to peacefully co-exist with each other.

 

[Mermaid02]

I've been trying to bite my tongue through all seven pages of this dialogue about the evils of corporal punishment in schools, but a few points keep coming back to mind: What about the little girl in all this? How does she feel (in this day of H1N1) about having Paul's spit all over her tummy? Is she embarassed about a boy pulling up her shirt in front of others and raspberrying her tummy?

If this has been Paul's behavior since pre-school, obviously all of the previous discipline (the letter-writing, the stern "NO" telling) isn't working. His behavior isn't changing. How are the school officials supposed to handle this?

There is a time for gentle discipline, but there's also a time for sterner measures. Gentle discipline wasn't correcting Paul's behavior towards the other students. Perhaps the school's "scare" would have been enough to stop Paul's behavior, but now that "scare" has been negated because mommy has assured Paul that the threat won't actually happen. Even the punishment of missing a birthday party is being rethought.

So what's to stop Paul from doing this again?

I understand your not wanting another person to "lay hands" on your child, but that means you, as a parent, have to do something to correct the behavior. Excusing his behavior as "fun loving" and "not meaning anything by it" means you're not fathoming that the people who are the recipient of your son's "fun loving" actions may not feel that way.

To them, it probably feels like unwanted contact. To the parents of that little girl, it may feel as though your son is targeting her. They may be even angrier than you are that the school isn't doing anything about it.

I'm sorry that this post is probably going against the popular opinion, but I'm flabbergasted that the little girl in the equation hasn't even been thought about or spoken of in seven pages of this thread. Nor has the conduct of Paul been really addressed.

It's all about how horrible a school is for trying to stop one child from enacting unwanted contact on the other children; a skill that we ALL have to learn if we're to peacefully co-exist with each other.

CR- you must have not seen my post about in our district this would be deemed sexual harassment. He would most likely have been suspended. If I were the girls parents I would be very unhappy, and would want something done. Although I would not want him "paddled" at school.

When my son was in first grade a little girl grabbed him and pulled him under a desk (they were getting their coats on) and kissed him. My son was MORTIFIED...(the look on his face when he came out of school was unreal- I can chuckle about it now but that day it was NOT funny) I spoke to the teacher (the girl admitted it) the girl was spoken to and nothing like that ever happened again.

 

[GEM]

Oh good grief. I should have known you'd show up eventually.

Well, first of all, from the principal's own words in his note, the little girl involved was laughing and playing and having a good time. She wasn't upset at all. But, the school rule is no touching, so, as I said in the note....Paul was clearly in the wrong and discipline was called for. I have no issue with that, my only issue is with the use of paddling as punishment.

And, for the record, this is the first time in the three months he's been in kindergarten that he's been in trouble for touching a student. Nowhere did I say that he was constantly touching people at school. He isn't. I did say that he was affectionate and liked to hug, hold hands, etc. It's something he's been learning about and working on and that we've addressed. I never said this had been a pattern of behavior since preschool. If you'll actually read what you highlighted in my post you'll see that what I said was that he has known since preschool that we expect him to respect and follow the rules. This is the first time he's ever had an issue with it at school. The times I've had him write a letter (which you highlighted) didn't involve this type of thing at all. One time his teacher wrote on his daily report that he was "wiggly" during story time and one time she wrote that he was "playing around with the water in the bathroom sink along with some other boys at handwashing time". On both of those occasions, I had him sit down and write a letter of apology. As for yesterday, yes, he did get carried away with what was merely silly play to him and to the little girl invovled. So...sorry, but he's not exactly the playground sexual predator you make him out to be. However, the behavior was inappropriate and that has been addressed. You seem to have drawn some conclusions which had absolutely nothing to do with what I actually wrote.

As much as you'd like to make me out to be one of those parents who always jumps to depend their child and attack the school system or one of those parents who never disciplines their child who can do no wrong or one of those parents who feels that a simple "let's not do that again, darling" suffices as a discipline method, that simply isn't the case. And, that's clear from what I wrote in the first post.

 

[Mermaid02]

Oh good grief. I should have known you'd show up eventually.

Well, first of all, from the principal's own words in his note, the little girl involved was laughing and playing and having a good time. She wasn't upset at all. But, the school rule is no touching, so, as I said in the note....Paul was clearly in the wrong and discipline was called for. I have no issue with that, my only issue is with the use of paddling as punishment.

And, for the record, this is the first time in the three months he's been in kindergarten that he's been in trouble for touching a student. Nowhere did I say that he was constantly touching people at school. He isn't. I did say that he was affectionate and liked to hug, hold hands, etc. It's something he's been learning about and working on and that we've addressed. This is the first time he's ever had an issue with it at school, yes, he did get carried away with what was merely silly play to him and to the little girl invovled. So...sorry, but he's not exactly the playground sexual predator you make him out to be. However, the behavior was inappropriate and that has been addressed.

As much as you'd like to make me out to be one of those parents who always jumps to depend their child and attack the school system or one of those parents who never disciplines their child who can do no wrong or one of those parents who feels that a simple "let's not do that again, darling" suffices as a discipline method, that simply isn't the case. And, that's clear from what I wrote in the first post.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post GEM- obviously your little boy isn't a sexual predator, but here touching like that would get a child suspended (most likely).

 

[chisnpeke]

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post GEM- obviously your little boy isn't a sexual predator, but here touching like that would get a child suspended (most likely).

I don't think she was talking about you.


OP, your letter is good. I would reiterate that you do not want you child to be physically punished in school for any reason.

 

[GEM]

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post GEM- obviously your little boy isn't a sexual predator, but here touching like that would get a child suspended (most likely).

Nope, no misuderstanding at all. Don't worry about it. And, if they wanted to suspend him, I wouldn't complain about that. I would think it was pretty ridicuculous and overblown in this particular situation, but I wouldn't complain or raise a fuss or say a word other than "We understand. Thank you." I have no problem with discipline and will back the school's policy and decisions in any case except the use of corporal punishment.

 

[luvsJack]

We still have paddling here. We do have the opportunity to sign permission slips at the beginning of school. I don't have a problem with it. I have specified certain people that were NOT to paddle my child and that if they got into that much trouble in that person's class, they were to be sent to the principal's office.

I don't think I would like not having a choice.

I do think you all need to remember this was a 6 year old girl he was playing around with and there could be some issues come up with her parents. (I certainly believe that it was all innocent fun, but they may not see it that way) Some parents get kind of crazy with that kind of stuff. I am just saying that the school has to react and they have to have strict rules about such things. I do think its commendable that you are taking care of things at home and the school may be satisfied with that (our school does that at times)

Maybe paddling is too harsh, I don't know; but here at least there is a ladder of discipline so all other avenues have to be exhausted before it gets to that except for just a couple of offenses that go straight to paddling (maybe this is one of them )

 

[mjkacmom]

OP, since your ds has had issues in the past causing him to write letters of apology, and since he seems to have problems with impulse control and personal space, have you considered having him evaluated for an underlying issue. I think finding the cause of these behaviors would help him a lot more than beating him, which I happen to think is cruel, and not effective. It sounds like he wants to behave, but can't.