Letter to my son's Asst. Principal re: paddling UPDATED Pg 14!

[dalt01]

I would seriously take a look at homeschooling. You said your son is social and loves school, but newsflash: homeschoolers don't sit at home alone all the time. Here we have music classes, art classes, sports classes, language classes, science co-ops, etc, etc. I wish some days I were just sitting at home for once. Plus, you get to be the biggest influence your child's life, not a teacher, a paddling principal, or other students who may (or may not) be behaving.

As upsetting as your situation is, I'd be looking at all education alternatives starting with some local homeschool groups.

i just dont buy that..............they are going to get dinged up sooner or later..................why make them socially inept and then send them out into the world...............public schooling is the world in microcosm...........home schooling is for the most part just paranoid adults trying to protect their children from the things around them...............ya dont learn nothin in a bubble.

 

[VillageMama]

home schooling is for the most part just paranoid adults trying to protect their children from the things around them...............

This is rich, coming from someone who is unable properly to compose a sentence or a paragraph.

 

[palmtreegirl]

This is rich, coming from someone who is unable properly to compose a sentence or a paragraph.

 

[gracie1]

First, you seem to think that paddling is the only form of discipline available to schools. There are certainly lots of other methods out there. Just because we don't spank, that certainly doesn't mean we don't discipline. My parents certainly never hit us, but you better believe we are disciplined and respected authority. No question.

Second, I have no idea who the little girl is. She isn't in his class. They just happened to be playing together at recess yesterday. Paul doesn't even know her name...which isn't surprising for a kindergarten student, especially a boy. They just don't seem to pay much attention to that sort of thing. I don't even know if her parents were notified. I did ask the principal who it was, but he said he couldn't tell me due to privacy rules, which, makes sense to me. I'm sure he wasn't allowed to tell her parents who the boy involved was either, if they were contacted. I know that when Paul was kicked by another student at recess (came home with a HUGE bruise on his lower back that hurt for days) the teacher was not allowed to tell me the child's name or what was done about it, and of course Paul didn't know his name either.

What I said doesn't imply that the only discipline that should be allowed is paddling. I think that schools need to be allowed to discipline children more than what they are allowed now, and depending what the situation was would depend on the punishment. I didn't mean for it to sound like regardless of what a child did then they get paddled.
I hope everything works out for the best for you!

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

It is over hte top to even think that this child must have an "underlying issue" for three relatively minor incidents. Honestly, if a parent came to our team and asked us to test a child over this, we would probably get a good chuckle out of it. Even the best students have slip ups or get excited. Being wiggly one time in circle does not mean the child has ADHD, playing in the water in the bathroom does not mean that the child has some kind of conduct disorder, and giving a little girl a raspberry (something that is probably done at home a lot) does not make him a sexual predator!

Believe me, being in the sped department, I am one of the first to suggest a child get tested if I believe something is truly wrong. To suggest that this behavior is abnormaly or deviant is beyond the pale. Not every child who acts up has some kind of "underlying issue". Most are just good kids who every once in awhile make a mistake and need to be corrected, end of story. I don't know any kid who sailed through school without even once minor issue, myself included.

OP: You seem to have a typical, well behaved boy on your hands. There is nothing in your post that indicates any kind of need for testing.

And for what it's worth, I would not contact the parents of the little girl as some have suggested. If your son has not already apologized, he should. But contacting the parents could make them believe it is a big deal and could backfire. If they aren't going to say anything, I would leave well enough alone so this doesn't get blown any more out of proportion than it has.

 

[dalt01]

This is rich, coming from someone who is unable properly to compose a sentence or a paragraph.

i have found, more often than not, that people who were sheltered by cloying parents throughout their adolescent years were less capable of interacting with their peers in later years. how about that. next time have more knowledge of your advesary. tounge in cheek all the way. hope were good!

 

[GEM]

It is over hte top to even think that this child must have an "underlying issue" for three relatively minor incidents. Honestly, if a parent came to our team and asked us to test a child over this, we would probably get a good chuckle out of it. Even the best students have slip ups or get excited. Being wiggly one time in circle does not mean the child has ADHD, playing in the water in the bathroom does not mean that the child has some kind of conduct disorder, and giving a little girl a raspberry (something that is probably done at home a lot) does not make him a sexual predator!

Believe me, being in the sped department, I am one of the first to suggest a child get tested if I believe something is truly wrong. To suggest that this behavior is abnormaly or deviant is beyond the pale. Not every child who acts up has some kind of "underlying issue". Most are just good kids who every once in awhile make a mistake and need to be corrected, end of story. I don't know any kid who sailed through school without even once minor issue, myself included.

OP: You seem to have a typical, well behaved boy on your hands. There is nothing in your post that indicates any kind of need for testing.

And for what it's worth, I would not contact the parents of the little girl as some have suggested. If your son has not already apologized, he should. But contacting the parents could make them believe it is a big deal and could backfire. If they aren't going to say anything, I would leave well enough alone so this doesn't get blown any more out of proportion than it has.

Thanks for all of that. I really appreciate it, and I agree with all of it.

For what it's worth, he did apologize. According to the note I got, Paul asked the assistant principal if it would be ok if he went to her class and apologized to her. His teacher walked him over to her class and he apologized to her in front of the class. According to Paul, the little girl said, "It's ok. I wasn't mad at you." Paul cried when we discussed it and said, "I love all my friends. I don't want to make anybody sad ever." Seriously, this is a very sensitive, kind, and empathetic child. He hates having anyone upset about anything, whether it's related to him or not. I know he screwed up, and he's being disciplined for that. My only issue here is that I never want him hit. End of story.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Thanks for all of that. I really appreciate it, and I agree with all of it.

For what it's worth, he did apologize. According to the note I got, Paul asked the assistant principal if it would be ok if he went to her class and apologized to her. His teacher walked him over to her class and he apologized to her in front of the class. According to Paul, the little girl said, "It's ok. I wasn't mad at you."

That's so sweet. I'm sure it was embarrassing for your DS and the little girl took some of it away, by what she said. Sweet all the way around. It looks like you're doing a good job with your DS, OP. He asked to apologize to her. He gets points for that. The assistant principal gets demerits for threatening to spank.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Oh good grief. I should have known you'd show up eventually.

My apologies. Apparently seven pages of "You are so right and the school is so wrong - good for you! " weren't quite enough to validate your beliefs. Everyone has to agree or it's not a victory, is that what's happening here? One or two people say something different from the rest of the firing squad and suddenly it's "Oh I should have known you would show up eventually"?

Not all of us are going to agree, hence the reason why the school doesn't see things the way you think they should see them. I suspect many others in the school don't see things the same way, either, which is probably why you're flummoxed by the situation: reality isn't quite agreeing with what you're hearing on the DIS.

My apologies if I upset the thread. I'm just one of a two or three small voices out here against the crowd, offering a different viewpoint of how others might see the situation.

Please continue your victory lap.

 

[RadioNate]

Maybe Im a bit naive but I just black out reading that the principal threatned to paddled your son.

Several things don't sit with me too well.

1. He's six years old and here is where my being naive comes in "he's a freaking child" who wanted to play innocently! He didn't punch the little girl, slap her, kick her, spit on her. He was playing innocently with her, tickled and gave her a zerbert on the stomach. I understand that his play may be unwanted and even inappropriate but...

2. They want to "punish" this child by either paddling him or making him loose recess three times the following week for "playing". I find this to be a bit severe!

3. It sounds as if the the principal was using threats to get a reaction out of this child.

I may be out of balance here, but I find all of this to be extreme. As a mother of a six year old myself, if DS did this at school I would hope his teacher would call me and talk to me about it, not going for the gusto and try to cream him. I then would sit down and talk to DS about what's appropriate play and what's not.

This child is only doing and showing affection what he's been shown at home...innocent affection. Give me a break people!

One day some young lady will love for him to tickle and play with her affectionately (ok thats a whole other story)

Like everyone else, I obviously don't believe that corporal punishment should be used in schools.

However, I did want to respond to this. I HATE tickling. I despise being tickled. I didn't like it when my parents or worse their friends did it to me and therefor we don't tickle our children. It isn't affectionate to me. It is someone DOMINATING me. In my eyes it is nothing more than an display of dominance and submission. To me, there is nothing fun or playful or loving about it.

I know I'm weird and no I wasn't abused but something that you think is "innocent play" really isn't to some people.

If I got a call from the school that some boy (who wasn't a close friend) picked up my daughters shirt, tickled, chases and zerberted her belly, I'd be upset. I wouldn't think the kid should be paddled and I wouldn't make a huge stink at school but it would bother me.

I'm glad to see that the OP is trying to reinforce the 'hands to yourself' concept. Even in kindergarten, they can learn that.

 

[Carly_Roach]

My six year old son is in kindergarten this year. He's doing pretty well..academically and behaviorally. One of his challenges has been learning to keep his hands to himself. He's very "touchy" and affectionate....loves to hold hands, kiss, hug, snuggle, tickle, etc. Today he got in big trouble at recess. Apparently, he was playing with a little girl and they were running and chasing and being silly. He lifted up her shirt and tickled her on the belly and gave her a zerbert on her belly. A teacher saw this and immediately sent him to the assistant principal's office. Now, I absolutely unquestioningly agree that he should NOT have done that. It was inappropriate behavior at school. However, I do have some issues with what happened after that. Evidently, the assistant principal told my son that he would get a spanking as his punishment. My son freaked out and started crying hysterically. He's never been spanked and was terrified, I guess. I guess because he freaked out so much, the assistant principal backed down and changed his punishment to sitting by the wall for recess three days next week. He did tell him, though, that he would be paddled the next time he touched someone inappropriately. I have some serious problems with this. Below is a copy of the email I sent to the assistant principal. I guess I'm posting this because I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter, one way or the other....out of curiosity, NOT because I question anything I said.


Mr. ____________,

First, I want to say thank you for contacting me about the incident that occurred on the playground today. I can assure you that I have the utmost respect for school administrators and teachers and the difficult disciplinary decisions you face day in and day out. Paul has known from his first year of pre-school that we expect him to respect his teachers and the school rules in all situations and that the rule in our house is....if you get in trouble at school, you always get in trouble at home as well - no excuses or exceptions. Several times this year I have had him sit down and write a letter of apology (a hugely time consuming activity for a kindergarten student) to Mrs. __________ for various classroom behavior issues. And, although I do know for certain that Paul was acting innocently and had no idea of the real inappropriate nature of his actions today (to him he was just playing around and being silly with a friend), I absolutely agree that learning to respect other people's bodies and keep his hands to himself is a lesson of the highest importance. Because of his behavior on the playground today, he will not be attending a very much anticipated birthday party tomorrow. And, of course, he absolutely understands and accepts that what occurred today has caused him to miss out on recess play for three days next week. We have discussed all of this very thoroughly with Paul this evening. I firmly believe that one of the most loving things a parent can do for a child is to teach him or her to take responsibility for the consequences of his or her actions.

However, having said all that, I am very concerned that paddling was one of the discipline choices offered in this situation. As parents, my husband and I believe very, very strongly that hitting a child for any reason is never justified. We do not hit in our home, and I have very serious concerns about the use of hitting as a disciplinary measure in a school setting. My husband and I would never use the infliction of physical pain as a disciple technique, and I would absolutely never condone, in any circumstance or for any reason, any adult hitting my child.

The practice of corporal punishment in schools has been made illegal in over half of the US states and in over 100 countries around the world. Ours is one of only 20 states where it is still legal. In addition, paddling and all forms of corporal punishment are illegal in most all juvenile detention centers around the country, affording juveniles who have committed crimes requiring them to be incarcerated more protection under the law than elementary school children in some states. Research shows that hitting in any circumstance is completely ineffective as a discipline tool for a variety of reasons. In the situation that occurred today, it seems especially strange to me to offer paddling as a means toward teaching a child respect for other people's bodies.

Again, please understand that I absolutely respect you and your position in the school. I understand that certain actions at school must result in disciplinary action, and, with the exception of corporal punishment, my husband and I will absolutely and unquestioningly back any discipline decisions made by school administrators or teachers.

This is something that we feel very, very strongly about and I really felt that I needed to bring it to your attention.

Thank you for your work with Paul and with the other students. Please understand that what you do is very sincerely appreciated.

Thanks for all of that. I really appreciate it, and I agree with all of it.

For what it's worth, he did apologize. According to the note I got, Paul asked the assistant principal if it would be ok if he went to her class and apologized to her. His teacher walked him over to her class and he apologized to her in front of the class. According to Paul, the little girl said, "It's ok. I wasn't mad at you." Paul cried when we discussed it and said, "I love all my friends. I don't want to make anybody sad ever." Seriously, this is a very sensitive, kind, and empathetic child. He hates having anyone upset about anything, whether it's related to him or not. I know he screwed up, and he's being disciplined for that. My only issue here is that I never want him hit. End of story.

Wait, wait, wait a minute.......

Between 9:00 last night and 12:30 today, Paul apologized to the little girl? Or this happened yesterday and you're just now mentioning it after someone says "What about the little girl? How does she feel?

 

[GEM]

My apologies. Apparently seven pages of "You are so right and the school is so wrong - good for you! " weren't quite enough to validate your beliefs. Everyone has to agree or it's not a victory, is that what's happening here? One or two people say something different from the rest of the firing squad and suddenly it's "Oh I should have known you would show up eventually"?

Not all of us are going to agree, hence the reason why the school doesn't see things the way you think they should see them. I suspect many others in the school don't see things the same way, either, which is probably why you're flummoxed by the situation: reality isn't quite agreeing with what you're hearing on the DIS.

My apologies if I upset the thread. I'm just one of a two or three small voices out here against the crowd, offering a different viewpoint of how others might see the situation.

Please continue your victory lap.

I didn't mind that you disagreed with me. I minded that you highlighted my own words and then twisted them by making assumptions about my son and his behavior that were just completely made up by you, never stated or implied in anything I wrote at all. It's fine to have a different viewpoint, but at least base it on the actual situation, not a fiction you create.

 

[GEM]

Wait, wait, wait a minute.......

Between 9:00 last night and 12:30 today, Paul apologized to the little girl? Or this happened yesterday and you're just now mentioning it after someone says "What about the little girl? How does she feel?

No. As I clearly stated, he apologized to her yesterday at school. That was part of the incident report in the note sent home by the principal. I am "just now mentioning it" because someone raised a specific question about whether or not he had apologized to the girl.

As I have noted many, many, many times in this thread, Paul was in the wrong here. He made a mistake. I don't disagree with that. My only disagreement is with the use of corporal punishment as a discipline technique in this or any other school situation.

 

[a1tinkfans]

My six year old son is in kindergarten this year. He's doing pretty well..academically and behaviorally. One of his challenges has been learning to keep his hands to himself. He's very "touchy" and affectionate....loves to hold hands, kiss, hug, snuggle, tickle, etc. Today he got in big trouble at recess. Apparently, he was playing with a little girl and they were running and chasing and being silly. He lifted up her shirt and tickled her on the belly and gave her a zerbert on her belly. A teacher saw this and immediately sent him to the assistant principal's office. Now, I absolutely unquestioningly agree that he should NOT have done that. It was inappropriate behavior at school. However, I do have some issues with what happened after that. Evidently, the assistant principal told my son that he would get a spanking as his punishment. My son freaked out and started crying hysterically. He's never been spanked and was terrified, I guess. I guess because he freaked out so much, the assistant principal backed down and changed his punishment to sitting by the wall for recess three days next week. He did tell him, though, that he would be paddled the next time he touched someone inappropriately. I have some serious problems with this. Below is a copy of the email I sent to the assistant principal. I guess I'm posting this because I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter, one way or the other....out of curiosity, NOT because I question anything I said.


Mr. ____________,

First, I want to say thank you for contacting me about the incident that occurred on the playground today. I can assure you that I have the utmost respect for school administrators and teachers and the difficult disciplinary decisions you face day in and day out. Paul has known from his first year of pre-school that we expect him to respect his teachers and the school rules in all situations and that the rule in our house is....if you get in trouble at school, you always get in trouble at home as well - no excuses or exceptions. Several times this year I have had him sit down and write a letter of apology (a hugely time consuming activity for a kindergarten student) to Mrs. __________ for various classroom behavior issues. And, although I do know for certain that Paul was acting innocently and had no idea of the real inappropriate nature of his actions today (to him he was just playing around and being silly with a friend), I absolutely agree that learning to respect other people's bodies and keep his hands to himself is a lesson of the highest importance. Because of his behavior on the playground today, he will not be attending a very much anticipated birthday party tomorrow. And, of course, he absolutely understands and accepts that what occurred today has caused him to miss out on recess play for three days next week. We have discussed all of this very thoroughly with Paul this evening. I firmly believe that one of the most loving things a parent can do for a child is to teach him or her to take responsibility for the consequences of his or her actions.

However, having said all that, I am very concerned that paddling was one of the discipline choices offered in this situation. As parents, my husband and I believe very, very strongly that hitting a child for any reason is never justified. We do not hit in our home, and I have very serious concerns about the use of hitting as a disciplinary measure in a school setting. My husband and I would never use the infliction of physical pain as a disciple technique, and I would absolutely never condone, in any circumstance or for any reason, any adult hitting my child.

The practice of corporal punishment in schools has been made illegal in over half of the US states and in over 100 countries around the world. Ours is one of only 20 states where it is still legal. In addition, paddling and all forms of corporal punishment are illegal in most all juvenile detention centers around the country, affording juveniles who have committed crimes requiring them to be incarcerated more protection under the law than elementary school children in some states. Research shows that hitting in any circumstance is completely ineffective as a discipline tool for a variety of reasons. In the situation that occurred today, it seems especially strange to me to offer paddling as a means toward teaching a child respect for other people's bodies.

Again, please understand that I absolutely respect you and your position in the school. I understand that certain actions at school must result in disciplinary action, and, with the exception of corporal punishment, my husband and I will absolutely and unquestioningly back any discipline decisions made by school administrators or teachers.

This is something that we feel very, very strongly about and I really felt that I needed to bring it to your attention.

Thank you for your work with Paul and with the other students. Please understand that what you do is very sincerely appreciated.

OP:
*I do NOT think you should be including alleged "past transgressions" of your child (as further ammunition against your child??) it seems counter productive to me. What does THAT have to do with THIS situation??
**You SHOULD clearly state that you do NOT authorize paddling of your child while at school, period. I think you meant that but actually did not state that.
***Request a COPY of the schools Bylaws/procedures concerning what they CAN and CANNOT do to your child. At least you will KNOW for sure!
****Looks good, but you have some typo's
Overall, I think that SOMETIMES, Many people over-react to situations as we are so caught up in being "politically correct".....and sometimes we as adults over react to situations....
If this scenario was with a child that has had other "personal space" or inappropriate issues, okay,
but
if children were playing and this was friendly, playful and unintended/unknown, Lets LEARN a LESSON from it instead of PUNISHING! I am not saying that it should not be addressed it is the HOW we address it that concerns me.....
Just want to say GOOD for you for speaking up on behalf of your child. YOU are his only advocate and I strongly believe that IF you are concerned about ANY issue while the school has "custody" of your child, you should address it, Both positive AND negative. Good Luck!

 

[GEM]

Like everyone else, I obviously don't believe that corporal punishment should be used in schools.

However, I did want to respond to this. I HATE tickling. I despise being tickled. I didn't like it when my parents or worse their friends did it to me and therefor we don't tickle our children. It isn't affectionate to me. It is someone DOMINATING me. In my eyes it is nothing more than an display of dominance and submission. To me, there is nothing fun or playful or loving about it.

I know I'm weird and no I wasn't abused but something that you think is "innocent play" really isn't to some people.

If I got a call from the school that some boy (who wasn't a close friend) picked up my daughters shirt, tickled, chases and zerberted her belly, I'd be upset. I wouldn't think the kid should be paddled and I wouldn't make a huge stink at school but it would bother me.

I'm glad to see that the OP is trying to reinforce the 'hands to yourself' concept. Even in kindergarten, they can learn that.

I certainly understand and respect that and I agree that it should not have happened. It is absolutely, without question, inappropriate. However, I will say that the tickling was mutual. According to Paul, they were playing "tickle tag"....you chase each other and if you get caught, you get tickled. She had been tickling him as well. But, that's beside the point. He should not have been engaging in that behavior at school and the trip to the principal's office and some kind of discipline were warranted. As I've said over and over, it's just the paddling issue I have a problem with.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I didn't mind that you disagreed with me. I minded that you highlighted my own words and then twisted them by making assumptions about my son and his behavior that were just completely made up by you, never stated or implied in anything I wrote at all. It's fine to have a different viewpoint, but at least base it on the actual situation, not a fiction you create.

I don't believe I'm the one creating fiction. I stand outside, look in, and base my opinion on what's offered. If I'm incorrect in my assessment of a situation that a poster has presented, then I've already apologized for that.

In the meantime, since I like to read the DIS and what most posters are saying here, I know how to solve problems like this when I run into them with features I'm happy to say the DIS has employed. If I had known that this was going to be yet another 'Paddling is wrong no matter what' topic with everyone patting each other on the back about how enlightened they are and how backward everyone else is, I wouldn't have opened it.

I wish you nothing but the best of luck in your future, GEM. Good Bye.

 

[GEM]

I don't believe I'm the one creating fiction. I stand outside, look in, and base my opinion on what's offered. If I'm incorrect in my assessment of a situation that a poster has presented, then I've already apologized for that.

In the meantime, since I like to read the DIS and what most posters are saying here, I know how to solve problems like this when I run into them with features I'm happy to say the DIS has employed. If I had known that this was going to be yet another 'Paddling is wrong no matter what' topic with everyone patting each other on the back about how enlightened they are and how backward everyone else is, I wouldn't have opened it.

I wish you nothing but the best of luck in your future, GEM. Good Bye.

Ummm...yes, your first post was entirely fictional and based on nothing I actually said.

But, nevermind....

Bye.

 

[RadioNate]

I certainly understand and respect that and I agree that it should not have happened. It is absolutely, without question, inappropriate. However, I will say that the tickling was mutual. According to Paul, they were playing "tickle tag"....you chase each other and if you get caught, you get tickled. She had been tickling him as well. But, that's beside the point. He should not have been engaging in that behavior at school and the trip to the principal's office and some kind of discipline were warranted. As I've said over and over, it's just the paddling issue I have a problem with.

And I do think you are spot on. I was responding more to the posted that said a girl someday will love to be tickled.

And like I said, if it were my daughter it would bother me but I certainly wouldn't be up at the school screaming sexual harassment, etc etc.

I know recess is hard to supervise with multiple classes but I do wonder why 'tickle tag' is even allowed. While innocent, it does open a big can of worms when it comes to personal space and excessive touching.

I was actually shocked that they could still paddle at school. That is a big deal and that punishment REALLY didn't fit this crime. Of course I learned that my state still allows it too.

I just wanted to throw out the reminder that personal space can be a big deal to people. I don't know why it is to me but I was about your DS's age when my dad learned the hard way not to tickle me. I kicked him in the face and broke his nose. Last time he did that!

 

[GEM]

And I do think you are spot on. I was responding more to the posted that said a girl someday will love to be tickled.

And like I said, if it were my daughter it would bother me but I certainly wouldn't be up at the school screaming sexual harassment, etc etc.

I know recess is hard to supervise with multiple classes but I do wonder why 'tickle tag' is even allowed. While innocent, it does open a big can of worms when it comes to personal space and excessive touching.

I was actually shocked that they could still paddle at school. That is a big deal and that punishment REALLY didn't fit this crime. Of course I learned that my state still allows it too.

I just wanted to throw out the reminder that personal space can be a big deal to people. I don't know why it is to me but I was about your DS's age when my dad learned the hard way not to tickle me. I kicked him in the face and broke his nose. Last time he did that!

I don't think "tickle tag" is allowed, per se. I don't think it's something they play a lot or anything. I got the impression from talking to Paul that it's just something that he and this girl made up during recess yesterday.

 

[gina2000]

Spanking in the 21st century? Beyond my comprehension.

I'd write a shorter letter that acknowledges his actions but forbids anyone from touching him. Unless I was willing to head the crusade to change a state law, I wouldn't bother with the rest.

I would, however, suggest that you sit down with your son and talk about appropriate behavior in public places. His actions are cute and sweet in a private setting with loving parents looking on but are not in a public school setting especially with a child whose parents aren't in his/your social circle. His actions could be misconstrued and twisted beyond his innocent intent. Don't put him through that possibility. Sit down with him now and explain why his actions are okay in some situations but not others. He won't get it all at this age but it will lay a cornerstone for understanding.