kids not being taught how to write in cursive at schools, anymore?

[Colleen27]

I must have the one crazy daughter on this thread- she LOVES cursive! She started learning it at the end of 2nd grade, when they had finished all they had to do that year. All summer she tried and tried on her own. Then in 3rd grade she was all excited and ready to start again- they didn't until the very end yet again. Now, in the 4th grade, they are finally starting to really learn cursive, not just as a space filler. I was beginning to wonder if they were ever going to learn it! I'm just glad I don't have to teach it to her in it's full- her penmanship isn't the greatest...... but she tries.

I've got one of those too. While I'm dealing with her brother crying and throwing his pencil over his handwriting homework (that sounds bad, but he has decoding and motor skills issues and 3rd/4th grades were the worst for him), I had her sitting down at the table and teaching herself. She's known how to write in cursive - that cutesy, bubbly cursive that pre-teen girls tend to have - since 1st grade. She's in 4th now and they're just starting to spend a little time on it, but it hasn't been much of a focus here which is a really nice change from the district we were in when my son was her age!

 

[golfgal]

As I stated before I use to work personnel and if I were to get an application signed with a smiley face it would go right into the circular file , I do have to wonder considering your definition of a signature which may be the secondary definition as per the dictionary the reason being because if uneducated or illiterate individuals who can not "write" their name are allowed to make "their mark" , on the line that says print name would they print their name John Smith or would they print Smiley Face ?

I still hold to my idea that the elimination of teaching cursive in the school system is just crazy

Again, a signature does NOT have to be in cursive--please find me any law or directive that states a signature HAS to be in cursive. If you are tossing applications because they have printed signatures that is probably your loss, not their loss. Again, there is NO NEED for cursive in today's world, period.

Just an add'l note to say that for a lot of Autistic-Spectrum kids with dysgraphia, cursive is almost always the more legible fashion in which to write once they get the hang of it. Dysgraphia tends to impair one's ability to properly space letters and differentiate by size between upper- and lower-case letters; when they print it often looks like just random strings of characters because they don't space or size them correctly. Cursive for them tends to eliminate that confusion, at least: when the letters in a given word are connected you can easily tell which is the first and last letter of a given word. (Though DS still always gets docked for not using capitals correctly. Most of the time he is using them correctly, but the teacher just can't tell because the sizing of his letters is very inconsistent.)

For those of us who are more affluent, typing is going to the be the quickest and most legible way to get our thoughts across in most cases. The thing is, though, the digital divide is getting larger all the time -- there are a lot of people for whom typing is not an everyday means of communication because there are not a lot of keyboard-driven devices in their everyday life, and most of the time that has to do with poverty.[/QUOTE]

I agree even schools that have computer labs that the students learn and use daily does not mean when those same students go home have access to a computer to type out and print their assignments.
Many have lost sight and forget that there is real poverty in this country

No, those students may not have access to computers at home but they DO have access to computers at school. I know in our district the computer labs are open for 3 hours after school gets out and there is a bus to take kids home from activities, etc. that they can take home if that is an issue. There are plenty of accommodations in place for kids that don't have a computer. A lot of schools are even providing computers for kids to take home.

 

[Colleen27]

Many people that I know (myself included) can print much faster (and more legibly) than they can write in cursive. I remember hearing this argument when I was in high school.

I think we're fastest at the method we have the most practice at. I can write in cursive faster than I can print but I can type MUCH faster than anything I can do with pen & paper. And the upside of typing is that my writing is never illegible and editing doesn't involve full rewrites, mass quantities of white out, or piles of eraser dust and "shadows" left on the page to further decrease the readability of the final product.

 

[Big_Disney_Fan]

Denver Colorado checking in...
My 3rd grader is learning lower case cursive letters this year, and also has a keyboarding class this year.

 

[sbell111]

I don't see how that's possible considering the distances between these schools.

http://www2.ed.gov/programs/nclbbrs/2010/national.pdf

You mean because the only middle school on the list is over an hour and a half from the only high school? Just chalk it up to 'don't believe everything you read on the internet' and roll on. That's what I did.

 

[golfgal]

I don't see how that's possible considering the distances between these schools.

http://www2.ed.gov/programs/nclbbrs/2010/national.pdf

Those are the NEW schools to the list-our schools have been on this list for at least 5 years since we moved here.

 

[Dictator]

Those are the NEW schools to the list-our schools have been on this list for at least 5 years since we moved here.

You do understand that's not how it works right?
That's like saying a blue ribbon school from 2001 is still a blue ribbon school.
They may still claim it, but that doesn't make it so.

 

[barkley]

I disagree with what you are saying. Rather, people are "using their brains" differently, to do different things, things more relevant to life today. Indeed, this generation, due to how progress has driven society, are forced to "use their brains" more than our generation had, even more so than our generation "used our brains" more than our parent's generation did.

How many of us learned how to till the fields, to sow seeds, to care for crops, to harvest, and how to gather seeds for next season, before home economics taught us how to make food from what we could buy in the grocery? Every generation goes through the same phenomenon, where things that everyone learned growing up become less relevant, and eventually become things that only a few people need know.

personaly, i would prefer that myself and my children be overeducated vs. under because should something become necessary or relevent to our needs it is preferable to have even a limited personal knowledge base from which to draw upon rather than to have to hope one can rely on one of the "few" that knows.

i think it's interesting that you used the home ec. example, because one of the things that is becoming more and more relevent to many people IS how to provide their own food vs. purchasing it from a grocery store. home and urban gardens are increasing tremendously, and those with some knowledge of how to undertake this endeavor are likely to be harvesting greater yeilds, sooner vs. someone with absolutly no knowledge who has to first seek out a resource to learn the basics. ds's school is currently constructing a fairly large greenhouse on site in order to specificily incorporate teaching the kids the very skills you've named as part of thier home econ.


i think of the odds and ends of different skills or knowledges i've picked up over the years, some of which at the time i never dreamed i might ever use let alone need, esp. some from my parents and older relatives. i am very thankful now that i did'nt just disreguard learning some of them because at the time they did'nt appear relevent to my generation. it's because of many of those depression era skills and knowledges that were aquired that i unlike many of my contemporaries already knew how to garden, can and the like and did'nt have to seek out others let alone pay fees when the need to do so became relevent to my family.

 

[NotUrsula]

No, those students may not have access to computers at home but they DO have access to computers at school. I know in our district the computer labs are open for 3 hours after school gets out and there is a bus to take kids home from activities, etc. that they can take home if that is an issue. There are plenty of accommodations in place for kids that don't have a computer. A lot of schools are even providing computers for kids to take home.

And I think that we've already established at rather endless length that you live in an affluent district. You REALLY cannot use your experience as a yardstick on this issue. That kind of access is not the norm at all in schools that serve extremely poor communities.

In the public school district where I live it is not uncommon for computers to be broken or be stolen within days of being put into service, and for this reason elementary and middle-school kids in the poorest of the schools tend to use them only to play educational games when it is their turn to visit the computer lab, which is usually only once every week or so. No one is taking home a school-supplied computer, not even the teachers. This is a district that serves 22K elementary and middle-school students; they estimate that at least half of them do not have regular access to computers at all. It is not the norm to type assignments before high school, and even then it is rare; only major papers.

Most suburban high schools have long dropped keyboarding class because the kids already know it, but in the majority of this district keyboarding is still taught as a job skill. Labs are generally not available for after-school use on most campuses because there is no funding for paying security or utilities for that. Oh, and there are no "activity buses", either. If you stay late for some reason you are on your own for getting home.

 

[bicker]

I agree that there must be great emphasis on teaching with technology but people still need to know certain skills without technology.

Which ones is the question, and beyond that, it is important to keep in mind that even if we keep only some of "old knowledge" as we add "new knowledge" into the mix, we still ending up with an ever-increasing amount of knowledge overall.

I really don't see learning to grow the food we cook as the same thing as learning to count money instead of relying on a cash register to do it for you.

Neither do I: Learning to grow food is far more critical in case technology fails us.

 

[bicker]

personaly, i would prefer that myself and my children be overeducated vs. under

Well of course, and we'd all love our children to be more happy, more healthy, more wealthy, more beautiful, more accomplished, etc. The issue here isn't the amount of knowledge but, as I said above, which knowledge. If your children are going to benefit from some "overeducation" then having that be additional business insight, or superior knowledge of physiology, or indeed even an understanding of agriculture, may be far more beneficial than having that "overeducation" be cursive writing. In the end, what matters is the effect of the education, on the one educated and on the world around them. What has the most potential positive effect?

i think it's interesting that you used the home ec. example

Just to be sure folks aren't confused by what you're saying here: The object-aspect in my example was actually agriculture. Home economics was the counter-aspect in my example.

ds's school is currently constructing a fairly large greenhouse on site in order to specificily incorporate teaching the kids the very skills you've named as part of thier home econ.

Again, that's really the opposite of what I was saying. Indeed, what your DS's school is doing is what I highlighted as more critical, should civilization crumble, an understanding of how to grow food, as compared how to cook food from ingredients purchased in a grocery. And indeed, what we're finding now is that, even with civilization intact, a basic understanding of agriculture is probably going to be more useful (for health reasons) than cursive writing.

 

[golfgal]

You do understand that's not how it works right?
That's like saying a blue ribbon school from 2001 is still a blue ribbon school.
They may still claim it, but that doesn't make it so.

Not according to the program goals on the website-it even states that if a school earns this designation it continues to be able to claim itself as a blue ribbon school unless told otherwise-look up the history of the program--it even talks about how communities can use this in recruiting businesses, real estate agents can use this as a sales tool, principals can use this on resumes, etc. You can only apply once every 5 years.

 

[sbell111]

You do understand that's not how it works right?
That's like saying a blue ribbon school from 2001 is still a blue ribbon school.
They may still claim it, but that doesn't make it so.

Actually, golfgal is correct. You and I are wrong.

I took a look at the lists from 2009 and 2010 and found that they didn't have any schools in common. If the lists were just a 'best of' for all schools then they would certainly have many schools in common from year to year.

Golfgirl: I apologize for my previous post which suggested that it couldn't be true that all three of your local schools were on this list.

 

[Dictator]

Actually, golfgal is correct. You and I are wrong.

I took a look at the lists from 2009 and 2010 and found that they didn't have any schools in common. If the lists were just a 'best of' for all schools then they would certainly have many schools in common from year to year.

Golfgirl: I apologize for my previous post which suggested that it couldn't be true that all three of your local schools were on this list.

It was never intended to be a "best of list".

It's purpose is to celebrate school's which show marked improvement or school which maintain high standards for a few years.
If school A submits an application, and is awarded a blue ribbon. Great.
They have no incentive to apply again the the next year because, well...why would they? They could not be awarded a blue ribbon again. Apparently, according to Golfgal, they can claim to be a blue ribbon school until they are told "otherwise".

I can't seem to find a list of schools no longer considered to be Blue Ribbon.

Not according to the program goals on the website-it even states that if a school earns this designation it continues to be able to claim itself as a blue ribbon school unless told otherwise-look up the history of the program--it even talks about how communities can use this in recruiting businesses, real estate agents can use this as a sales tool, principals can use this on resumes, etc. You can only apply once every 5 years.

I cannot locate this on their site. If I'm wrong, I'll concede.

 

[luvsJack]

No, your signature is whatever you LEGALLY use to sign your name, it could be a smiley face if you want but that is what you recognize as YOUR SIGNATURE-the print line is to clarify whatever you wrote on your signature line.

Please, explain that to several FEDERAL GOVERNMENT agencies that require forms from our students. They will send the forms back if not signed in cursive with a note "MUST be signed". They will not accept a printed name except on the "printed name" line.

I have seen the forms come back many times when someone accidently printed on the wrong line. (and they printed in both places)

 

[luvsJack]

No, those students may not have access to computers at home but they DO have access to computers at school. I know in our district the computer labs are open for 3 hours after school gets out and there is a bus to take kids home from activities, etc. that they can take home if that is an issue. There are plenty of accommodations in place for kids that don't have a computer. A lot of schools are even providing computers for kids to take home.

That may be so in your schools but not every where. We live in a rural area, the kids without computers at home cannot stay at school after hours even if it was available because there is no transportation home. We are lucky to have the nice computer labs that we have but we certainly do not have the money in our schools to provide lap tops for the kids to take home ( and destroy in some instances). We have two computer labs are both are used by the upper grades. The lower grades have computers in the classrooms. Neither of these options provide enough computer time for large essays, projects, etc.

 

[golfgal]

That may be so in your schools but not every where. We live in a rural area, the kids without computers at home cannot stay at school after hours even if it was available because there is no transportation home. We are lucky to have the nice computer labs that we have but we certainly do not have the money in our schools to provide lap tops for the kids to take home ( and destroy in some instances). We have two computer labs are both are used by the upper grades. The lower grades have computers in the classrooms. Neither of these options provide enough computer time for large essays, projects, etc.

I guess it all comes down to priorities-our schools have made it a priority to have these things. Heck, even the tiny Catholic elementary school our kids went to had 2 computer labs-all money raised by the parents because it was a priority to do so.

Our high school has several computer labs that were all outfitted with new computers over the summer. We are very lucky and this is why we chose to live in this district-parents put education as a priority and put their money where their mouth is. Our schools do not provide laptops for kids unless they have it on an IEP though--other districts in our state do though.

 

[NotUrsula]

I guess it all comes down to priorities-our schools have made it a priority to have these things. Heck, even the tiny Catholic elementary school our kids went to had 2 computer labs-all money raised by the parents because it was a priority to do so.

Our high school has several computer labs that were all outfitted with new computers over the summer. We are very lucky and this is why we chose to live in this district-parents put education as a priority and put their money where their mouth is. Our schools do not provide laptops for kids unless they have it on an IEP though--other districts in our state do though.

And our schools have been making it a priority to try to remediate their peeling lead paint and to provide heat in the classrooms and toilets that actually work. The poor have their own priorities, and you do the best that you can with what money you have. Letting every kid type assignments would be nice, but pens and pencils still work fine and don't cost a fraction as much.

 

[NHdisneylover]

]I guess it all comes down to priorities[/B]-our schools have made it a priority to have these things. Heck, even the tiny Catholic elementary school our kids went to had 2 computer labs-all money raised by the parents because it was a priority to do so.

Our high school has several computer labs that were all outfitted with new computers over the summer. We are very lucky and this is why we chose to live in this district-parents put education as a priority and put their money where their mouth is. Our schools do not provide laptops for kids unless they have it on an IEP though--other districts in our state do though.

Did you realize that this comes off as sounding like you think schools in poorer districts have plenty of money that they COULD spend on computers and they just do not care enough to do so While that might be the case once in a while it generally is NOT.
As far as parents raising the money goes--that is much more easily done in a district where there are many stay at home parents to work various fundraisers, or even parents who "only" work one 40 hour a week job and have some free time AND in districts where the families involved with the school and their neighbors have money to spend on bake sales, car washes, fundraising walks, etc. This does not work out so well in areas where the majority of kids come form single parent households in which that parent works 2 or 3 jobs to scrape by and even IF the kids could get funds by being there to wash cars or working a vending area at a football game or something the kids themselves may have to work after school to help out at home, or babysit their younger siblings, etc.
I am sure you have worked hard to get where you are and consider your children to be a top priority. However, there truly are people who have worked just as hard (or harder) and who also consider their children to be a top priority who simply have had the luck element work to let them get to the financial place you are.

 

[KatheeME]

I was reading this last week online somewhere, and it said many schools have given up teaching kids how to write in cursive. The reasoning, according to the story is that it will not be a necessary skill in the future as everything will be done on keyboards.

I can't begin to tell you how sad this makes me. We have already lost the art of communication in "real" letters because it is easier just to email or text someone... but what a real shame it will be when our kids CAN'T write a letter because THEY DON'T KNOW HOW.

Have any of you had this happen to your kids, yet?

Hi Bear,

I haven't read any of this thread yet, but I had to tell you what a wise teacher once told me. My daughter, now 26, was in grade school and really, really struggled with curvise handwriting. My daughter, who also dealt with and conquered some learning disabilities, now a college graduate, really stressed about it. This teacher took me aside and told me that is was OKAY if she didn't use curvise handwriting. Being a mom that always followed all the rules and wanted the "best" for her daughter, I argued with this teacher and she told me this "at the end of the day, when your daughter is grown, is it really going to matter that she is printing in school instead of using handwriting?". She was SO right, in light of that she has grown through and overcome, it's indeed trivial, and I learned that is truly valuable is that she is a happy, healthy, and productive adult.

Kathee