Kerry supporters, a thought

Originally posted by BedKnobbery2
Gotta say, I'm totally with peachgirl on this one; I'm more active in this election than I've ever been before (but not as active as I'd like to be) but don't view my activites on this board as anything other than entertainment. :)

That is great. being involved is important. I don't count my time here as anything other than entertainment either. I live in a very conservative area so campaigning doesnt do much. I find the best way fro me to contribute to the cause is with monetary support.
 
Originally posted by shortbun
I usually don't waste my time talking to people like you who are
voting for Bush anyway.
Are you talking about politics or that you wont talk to them about anything?
 
shortbun- I, of course, think your actions are admirable and support you 100%. I too am inspired and looking for ways to get involved in the Kerry campaign, especially after my recent trip to Boston.

But despite the frustration that one can often feel on this board (I'm not convincing anyone, I'm just setting myself up for an attack, how do I debate with people to use a totally foreign system of logic), I do think this board has political value.

I'll only speak to my personal experience here, but I've found tremendous inspiration from posters like yourself, and have been inspired to deepen the complexity of my thinking about the issues surrounding this campaign. People devalue preaching to the choir way to much- you have to keep your troops mobilized (so to speak) and forge a strong community bond. And, by posting on this board, I have challenged myself to find the right words to express important ideas and, in the process, have found clarity and faith in my ideological positions.

I have also found it very instructive to confront for myself the ideas of the opposition. For example, when I was in college in North Carolina in the early 90's, I was given a choice to write a paper in my poly-sci class on the senate democratic nominee Harvey Ghant (sp?) or Jesse Helms- I chose Helms because I knew that if I were going to fight against his policies, I needed to know them inside and out.

This board is truly a site of active democracy, even if it is entertaining and even if it is just words. As I've posted before, I think words are actions in and of themselves and are incredibly valuable.
 
I don't answer because it's waste of time. You're not going to change your mind no matter what anyone says, and comments like "I know he is going to raise my taxes", prove it. You don't know, but you believe it and that's all you need to make it a fact.

I'm on these boards for entertainment although I do believe that posting on this board has some value.

When I read and argue with some of the extremists on the right, it reminds me how important it is to stay motivated and do what I can to help elect John Kerry for President . It also prepares me for questions I may get when trying to convince a voter that they should go Kerry. Believe me, I have yet to get a question that I haven't seen discussed here over and over again.

I also learn a tremendous amount reading posts of some of the more eloquent Democrats and liberals that post here. So, time spent here is not a waste, but trying to change the minds of those set on voting one way or the other is.

IRL, the voters that Democrats need to reach are the true swing voters and those who, if they will just get up and vote, would vote Democratic. We need to get out the vote of minorities, women and the elderly. That's where the focus lies. We don't waste our real time with people who are going to vote Bush no matter what any more than the Republicans waste their time with me.
 

Originally posted by shortbun
I usually don't waste my time talking to people like you who are
voting for Bush anyway. Kerry is moral, normal, not an addict,
a dove and won't drag us into senseless immoral wars. Kerry
is not a mysogenist, he's for women's rights and privacy. Kerry
spreads hope, something this country needs plenty of. Kerry is
intellectually curious, gracious, culturally literate and a man of
courage. Kerry is flexible-not rigid(rigidity is part of addiction),
Kerry is a liberal. Liberal is a good word, it means generous.

Are you sure your moniker shouldn't be 'shortburn' because after this inacurate diatribe, you must be smoking something!!! Can I get a little of that? :teeth:
 
Wow, You are all so paranoid and convinced that whatever you say, I am going to try and rip you apart! I am an involved voter. Just because a voted for him in the last election, does not mean my vote can not be switched by logic. I must have the mark of the devil tatoo on my body somewhere. Would it surprise you that I voted for Clinton? It sounds like you are taking sides for a football game.




I don't answer because it's waste of time. You're not going to change your mind no matter what anyone says, and comments like "I know he is going to raise my taxes", prove it. You don't know, but you believe it and that's all you need to make it a fact.

Kerry has publicly acted to prevent tax cuts:

Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years.
H.R. 2 Conference Report; Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003. Vote to adopt the conference report on the bill that would make available $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. It would provide $20 billion in state aid that consists of $10 billion for Medicaid and $10 billion to be used at states' judgment. The agreement contains a new top tax rate of 15 percent on capital gains and dividends through 2007 (5 percent for lower-income taxpayers in 2007 and no tax in 2008). Income tax cuts enacted in 2001 and planned to take effect in 2006 would be accelerated. The child tax credit would be raised to $1,000 through 2004. The standard deduction for married couples would be double that for a single filer through 2004. Tax breaks for businesses would include expanding the deduction that small businesses could take on investments to $100,000 through 2005.
Bill HR.2 ; vote number 2003-196 on May 23, 2003

Voted NO on cutting taxes by $1.35 trillion over 11 years.
Vote to pass a bill that would reduce all income tax rates and make other tax cuts totaling $1.35 trillion over 11 years. The bill would increase the standard deduction for married couples subject to the 15% bracket to double that of singles by 2005
Bill HR 1836 ; vote number 2001-165 on May 23, 2001

Voted NO on eliminating the 'marriage penalty'.
Vote on a bill that would reduce taxes on married couples by increasing their standard deduction to twice that of single taxpayers and raise the income limits on both the 15 percent and 28 percent tax brackets for married couples to twice that of singles
Bill HR.4810 ; vote number 2000-215 on Jul 18, 2000

Voted NO on across-the-board spending cut.
The Nickles (R-OK) Amdendment would express the sense of the Senate that Congress should adopt an across-the-board cut in all discretionary funding, to prevent the plundering of the Social Security Trust Fund
Status: Amdt. Agreed to Y)54; N)46
Reference: Nickles Amdt #1889; Bill S. 1650 ; vote number 1999-313 on Oct 6, 1999

Voted NO on $792B tax cuts.
This vote was on a motion to waive the Congressional Budget Act against the Gramm (R-TX) amendment which would reduce taxes by $792 billion over 10 years by reducing all income tax rates by 10%, effectively eliminating the so-called "marriage penalty".
Status: Motion Rejected Y)46; N)54
Reference: Motion to waive Congressional Budget Amendment in regards to the Gramm Amdt #1405; Bill S. 1429 ; vote number 1999-230 on Jul 29, 1999

Voted NO on requiring super-majority for raising taxes.
Senator Kyl (R-AZ) offered an amendment to the 1999 budget resolution to express the sense of the Senate on support for a Constitutional amendment requiring a supermajority to pass tax increases.
Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)50; N)48; NV)2
Reference: Kyl Amdt #2221; Bill S Con Res 86 ; vote number 1998-71 on Apr 2, 1998

Voted NO on FY99 tax cuts.
Senator Coverdell (R-GA) offered an amendment to the 1999 budget resolution to reduce revenues by $101.5 billion over the next 5 years, to provide middle-class tax reflief
Status: Motion Rejected Y)38; N)62)
Reference: Motion to waive CBA Re: Coverdell Amdt. # 2199; Bill S Con Res 86 ; vote number 1998-55 on Apr 1, 1998

Quotes:

"Sen. John F. Kerry has said he was ‘very proud’ of his vote to increase the (gas) tax by 4.3 cents per gallon..."
-- Michael Kranish, The Boston Globe, 5/4/96

So far, Kerry has said he would repeal tax cuts he says benefit those who earn more than $200,000 annually, but would keep the cuts he says benefit the middle class. Compared to Howard Dean, who has vowed to repeal all of the tax cuts, Kerry's proposal may seem more market-friendly.

"However, you could argue that Kerry and all of the top-tier Democratic candidates want to repeal the preferential rate on dividends that was introduced last year and that the prospect of that rate rising might make Wall Street anxious," said Thomas Gallagher, a political economist at the International Strategy and Investment Group (ISI).
--CNN Money, Feb 4th 2004

According to a study by the National Taxpayers Union Foundation (NTUF):
Sen. John Kerry's campaign proposals would result in $226 billion in higher spending in the first year of his presidency, including an additional $115 billion in social welfare, foreign aid, and environmental and energy costs, according to a study of his budgetary recommendations....
Using the Kerry campaign's data and budget estimates from independent sources such as the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to assess the cost of each budget recommendation, the NTUF said the Massachusetts liberal's proposals would add $734.6 billion to the government's bills over five years....

"Overall, Senator Kerry proposes spending $770.6 billion over five years to fund his projects, while suggesting just $35.99 billion in budget cuts," the study says.


But what about reversing tax cuts for "the rich"?
"If John Kerry were indeed to 'pay for' every program he has proposed as a presidential candidate, as he promised in the April 7 speech at Georgetown, the average taxpayer in the U.S. would face an additional $2,206 in taxes in the first year of a Kerry presidency alone," the study says.
Mr. Kerry's spending increase over a four-year term would total $621.76 billion, study figures show.

"That translates to an average increased tax burden of $6,066 for every person paying federal taxes in America over Kerry's first term," it says.

http://www.alphapatriot.com/home/archives/cat_kerry_04.html

Now you can see some of the reasons I believe he will raise my taxes.

A quote by shortbun:

"I usually don't waste my time talking to people like you who are
voting for Bush anyway. Kerry is moral, normal, not an addict,
a dove and won't drag us into senseless immoral wars. Kerry
is not a mysogenist, he's for women's rights and privacy. Kerry
spreads hope, something this country needs plenty of. Kerry is
intellectually curious, gracious, culturally literate and a man of
courage. Kerry is flexible-not rigid(rigidity is part of addiction),
Kerry is a liberal. Liberal is a good word, it means generous."

I'm sorry I am a waste of your time. I hope I am not a waste of Kerry's time. You have given me some wonderful characteristics about Kerry, and I am sure they are true, but that STILL is not the answer to my questions about his economic, domestic, and military policies.

I am sorry if I waste everyone's time. Yes I am a Bush supporter, but that does not mean that I can't change my mind. You might be surprised if you met me. I am not some big "fat cat" republican who belongs to the Sunnydale Yacht Club, the Golden Links golf club or have a seat on the stock exchange. If you change your approach from one of emotion to one of issues, you might convice more voters.
 
Originally posted by spearenb
... you must be smoking something!!! Can I get a little of that? :teeth:

spearenb,

Why not ask this guy:jester:

kerrypuff.jpg
 
First off, let me say good for those Kerry supporters who are motivated to be more involved in the political process. I applaud that regardless of where you stand on the political spectrum.

Second, I don't think it is a waste of time to have reasonable political conversations on here, even when the posters involved have no chance whatsoever of changing their minds. Plenty of people read those threads without posting.
 
Originally posted by we3luvdisney
spearenb,

Why not ask this guy:jester:

kerrypuff.jpg

I guess we have proof that he didn't inhale either...

Boy, that picture looks like a very mature Kerry. I wonder how long ago that picture was taken? And was it while he was on Capital Hill?



:teeth:
 
Originally posted by spearenb
Boy, that picture looks like a very mature Kerry. I wonder how long ago that picture was taken? And was it while he was on Capital Hill?:teeth:

If I'm not mistaken, it was from an ABC Morning news segment on August 06, 2004. Kerry and Peter Yarrow (of Peter-Paul-Mary) were singing "Puff The Magic Dragon." When the words got to puff -- Kerry put his fingers to his lips like someone would to describe smoking a joint.

Edit -- Don't hold me to that date. My search has some coflicting dates, but it did occur this year. When I find the true date I'll post the info.
 
Originally posted by spearenb
Boy, that picture looks like a very mature Kerry. I wonder how long ago that picture was taken? And was it while he was on Capital Hill?:teeth:

Okay, here is a better description:

"In the days leading up to January's Iowa Caucus, another incident demonstrated Kerry's lack of uptightness on the matter of marijuana and its users. Some political reporters called it "The Puff Incident."

Ed O'Keefe of ABC news said this about it…

On Saturday, Kerry kicked off a 4-day Iowa swing which is fast becoming the Peter, John & Caucus tour as folk music legend Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul & Mary travels with the Senator as his activist event opening act…

This vote-seeking, folk-singing tour took an unusual turn Saturday night as Kerry and Yarrow dropped by a party held by the Story County Democrats in Ames, IA.

Moments after the Senator's arrival, none other than Howard Dean walked in the door, prompting one partygoer to debate, Should I talk to Dean in the kitchen or Kerry in the living room?

The Governor strummed a tune with Yarrow then quickly exited stage porch. Kerry listened from the kitchen and cringed as his friend called him forth to the center stage den for a group rendition of Puff the Magic Dragon.

As the folk star began his signature song with an unintended double meaning, Kerry mouthed a few words then took his index finger to his thumb, pursed his lips, and feigned a marijuana toke."
 
Why do you never provide references to your quotes? It's customary to give credit to authors, in case you didn't know.

Are you that afraid of your sources??? ::yes::
 
Originally posted by Samsara
And true at the same time! Two for one! ;)

You can keep picking on me if it makes you feel better, I can take it.

Have a good night.::yes::
 
Um, sorry, not "picking on you."

I agree with what the poster said about your post.

Have a GREAT night!!! :wave:
 
Originally posted by Samsara
Um, sorry, not "picking on you."

I agree with what the poster said about your post.

Have a GREAT night!!! :wave:

You said it was a "trend". That, to me is not just agreeing with that poster. If you just stated you agreed with her, then that would be one thing but saying it's a trend is another, IMHO. Whatever, I'm done with this...

Have a great night too, what's left of it!
 
Originally posted by Pin Wizard

URL REMOVED

:teeth: [/B]

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