JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[msjprincess]

Yep, sorry. Thought you said impossible. Sorry.

No problem.

 

[msjprincess]

The theory out there, that Patsy accidentally killed her and then sexually abused her to cover it up is just crazy to me.

 

[cabanafrau]

The theory out there, that Patsy accidentally killed her and then sexually abused her to cover it up is just crazy to me.

What? That's the theory, that she sexually abused her to cover it up? I'm not a trained psychologist, but that crosses some psychological boundaries in a situational way that's, I'm not sure what word I want to use here, but basically the kind of boundaries that aren't typically crossed situationally like that.

 

[lillygator]

I do not believe an intruder came into the house at all. It was someone in the family.
Such a shame.
I am not sure who killed her - but I do believe she was being sexually abused.

 

[cabanafrau]

I do not believe an intruder came into the house at all. It was someone in the family.
Such a shame.
I am not sure who killed her - but I do believe she was being sexually abused.

Why do you believe she was being sexually abused?

 

[msjprincess]

What? That's the theory, that she sexually abused her to cover it up? I'm not a trained psychologist, but that crosses some psychological boundaries in a situational way that's, I'm not sure what word I want to use here, but basically the kind of boundaries that aren't typically crossed situationally like that.

Yes. I have seen on several shows that some people think taht Patsy flipped out because JonBenet wet the bed. She hit her, JonBenet hit her head and was killed. Patsy then took her down the basement, strangled her and sexually molested her to make it look like a stranger did it.

 

[msjprincess]

I do not believe an intruder came into the house at all. It was someone in the family.
Such a shame.
I am not sure who killed her - but I do believe she was being sexually abused.

Why? There was no evidence of her being abused before the killing.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes. I have seen on several shows that some people think taht Patsy flipped out because JonBenet wet the bed. She hit her, JonBenet hit her head and was killed. Patsy then took her down the basement, strangled her and sexually molested her to make it look like a stranger did it.

I've never heard that theory. I know what I'm going to be discussing with the psych crowd the next time we go walking or have lunch. That is a really fascinating issue as to whether or not those boundaries are likely to be crossed under such a set of circumstances. From my studies and understanding that's a really significant and consequential leap to cross that barrier. Now I'm dying to know what smart people who work in that field say.

 

[asta]

The theory out there, that Patsy accidentally killed her and then sexually abused her to cover it up is just crazy to me.

This case is just crazy. I don't know who killed this poor child but this is what bothers me about the theory that Patsy killed her in a fit of rage over wetting the bed. Where in that whole scenario does Patsy go downstairs and feed her a bowl of pineapple? Jon Benet came home asleep from the party and was put to bed. She wets the bed, Patsy comes to clean her up and gets mad and then strikes her in anger. There is no way to fit eating the pineapple.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Watched today. This interview is really overblown.
There's some interesting things but not much from Burke.
The fact that police lied to the friends that where watching Burke so he could be interviewed and then they leaked parts of that interview with a child psychologist to the media just goes further in showing why the Ramsey's weren't cooperating. They clearly had reason not to.
I found it interesting to hear that whole golf club incident I'd read about on sites that dissect every detail of the case. Accidently hitting her when she walked behind him during his back swing is much different that him intentionally and purposely hitting her.
I do think part of the smiling and Burke's demeanor is that he just thinks all the talk and rumors are stupid and ridiculous.

 

[Hikergirl]

And then there is me. I can see both scenarios as a possibility. I have never been so undecided on a case before. It was so contaminated and so bizaare that I can't point fingers at anyone. I'd like to believe the parents didn't do it but it is not an impossible scenario either. The idea of an intruder is definitely a real possibility in my mind as well. But I just have a hard time believing a 9 year old boy did it. That's the 1 I really struggle to find plausible out of all the possibilities that have been presented throughout the years.

I know its a possibility that the parents did it, but I just can't imagine them being capable of that kind of brutality on their daughter. If the thought is they were covering up an accident, the stuff that was done to her is just so sickening.
I definitely don't think Burke was capable of that either.

 

[cabanafrau]

This case is just crazy. I don't know who killed this poor child but this is what bothers me about the theory that Patsy killed her in a fit of rage over wetting the bed. Where in that whole scenario does Patsy go downstairs and feed her a bowl of pineapple? Jon Benet came home asleep from the party and was put to bed. She wets the bed, Patsy comes to clean her up and gets mad and then strikes her in anger. There is no way to fit eating the pineapple.

I guess in that scenario the pineapple isn't sinister or related to the murder, so it should be ignored as inconsequential and unrelated to the case.

 

[RainbowBrite]

I am not sure what I think of this case anymore. For a long time I was sure the Ramseys did it, now I just don't know. I think that there are parts of the case that don't fit Ramseys did it theory, and parts that don't fit the intruder did it theory. Burke came off as very strange but I do not think he was capable of what happened to JonBenet that night. Even IF Patsy did do it, the head injury was not the kind of thing that could happen by accident. Have any of you seen pictures of her skull? She was hit by something hard enough to actually punch out a piece of the skull. Falling into something and hitting her head would not have done it. Oddly enough it looks almost exactly the shape of a golf club.

 

[cabanafrau]

I am not sure what I think of this case anymore. For a long time I was sure the Ramseys did it, now I just don't know. I think that there are parts of the case that don't fit Ramseys did it theory, and parts that don't fit the intruder did it theory. Burke came off as very strange but I do not think he was capable of what happened to JonBenet that night. Even IF Patsy did do it, the head injury was not the kind of thing that could happen by accident. Have any of you seen pictures of her skull? She was hit by something hard enough to actually punch out a piece of the skull. Falling into something and hitting her head would not have done it. Oddly enough it looks almost exactly the shape of a golf club.

So what do you think the appropriate response to the family by the media and the public should be? Statistically there's a good probability they could have done it. It's for certain they had access to the victim and there's no one else we can definitively say that about. Do you think it's appropriate they be regarded suspiciously since a six year old is dead under horrific circumstances and one of them is likely to have had the most opportunity to have done this?

 

[EMom]

Yes. I have seen on several shows that some people think taht Patsy flipped out because JonBenet wet the bed. She hit her, JonBenet hit her head and was killed. Patsy then took her down the basement, strangled her and sexually molested her to make it look like a stranger did it.

I've heard the theory and what strikes me as unbelievable about it is that Patsy had survived ovarian cancer not long before. This woman had to endure months of suffering and worse yet, the knowledge that she might well die and have to leave her young children to grow up without a mother, which is something any mother would dread. My experience with people who had lived through such an ordeal is that they are grateful for every day and that "stressful events" such as bedwetting aren't even a blip on their radar after what life had handed them. It's small potatoes. What might stress out others just gets put in perspective. I have a hard time believing a kid wetting the bed would cause an otherwise loving mother to snap, kill her child and then stage a sexual abuse to cover it up. Especially when you have to jump through flaming hoops to come up with any evidence to back up that theory. More so when there is ample evidence of an intruder who would have had no emotional block toward killing JonBenet.

I have watched an interview with an attorney friend of the Ramseys who says he got a heads up (within a day or two, I believe) from someone in the local law enforcement that the Ramseys were definitely being looked at as suspects. Someone tipped him off that they weren't just going to be questioned for information, but as targets. He advised the Ramseys they needed lawyers and being smart, they took his advice. I can't blame them. The police had their minds made up and excluded evidence that didn't fit "the family did it."

One such example is the ransom note. All the public heard was that parts of the note were consistent with Patsy's handwriting. What the police didn't say was that several experts told them the handwriting didn't match or that they just couldn't say one way or another. No, they kept quiet about all the experts who reached conclusions inconsistent with "the family did it." But they screamed from the rooftops about the ONE expert who noted some similarities between the note and Patsy's handwriting. Public opinion was based on shady information from the police on this matter, along with so many others.

 

[Hikergirl]

I do not believe an intruder came into the house at all. It was someone in the family.
Such a shame.
I am not sure who killed her - but I do believe she was being sexually abused.

Her pediatrician has said he saw no signs of sexual molestation.

 

[RainbowBrite]

One such example is the ransom note. All the public heard was that parts of the note were consistent with Patsy's handwriting. What the police didn't say was that several experts told them the handwriting didn't match or that they just couldn't say one way or another. No, they kept quiet about all the experts who reached conclusions inconsistent with "the family did it." But they screamed from the rooftops about the ONE expert who noted some similarities between the note and Patsy's handwriting. Public opinion was based on shady information from the police on this matter, along with so many others.

Not true - Patsy's handwriting was never ruled out. No one could say she definitely wrote the note but she was never ruled out as the author of the note. She also began changing the way she made her letter a's after the murder. Handwriting samples of things she wrote before the murder proved this.

 

[cabanafrau]

I've heard the theory and what strikes me as unbelievable about it is that Patsy had survived ovarian cancer not long before. This woman had to endure months of suffering and worse yet, the knowledge that she might well die and have to leave her young children to grow up without a mother, which is something any mother would dread. My experience with people who had lived through such an ordeal is that they are grateful for every day and that "stressful events" such as bedwetting aren't even a blip on their radar after what life had handed them. It's small potatoes. What might stress out others just gets put in perspective. I have a hard time believing a kid wetting the bed would cause an otherwise loving mother to snap, kill her child and then stage a sexual abuse to cover it up. Especially when you have to jump through flaming hoops to come up with any evidence to back up that theory. More so when there is ample evidence of an intruder who would have had no emotional block toward killing JonBenet.

I have watched an interview with an attorney friend of the Ramseys who says he got a heads up (within a day or two, I believe) from someone in the local law enforcement that the Ramseys were definitely being looked at as suspects. Someone tipped him off that they weren't just going to be questioned for information, but as targets. He advised the Ramseys they needed lawyers and being smart, they took his advice. I can't blame them. The police had their minds made up and excluded evidence that didn't fit "the family did it."

One such example is the ransom note. All the public heard was that parts of the note were consistent with Patsy's handwriting. What the police didn't say was that several experts told them the handwriting didn't match or that they just couldn't say one way or another. No, they kept quiet about all the experts who reached conclusions inconsistent with "the family did it." But they screamed from the rooftops about the ONE expert who noted some similarities between the note and Patsy's handwriting. Public opinion was based on shady information from the police on this matter, along with so many others.

Thank you for the reminder about the cancer survival piece of this. That's a very good factor to remember when considering what the mother's psychological ability to both commit the crime and stage the kidnapping/sexual assault may have been.

What you say about the ransom note evidence isn't surprising. I've wondered the same thing about fingerprints and the pineapple bowl, whether or not the police simply never said that any partial, unidentifiable prints were retrieved, or any evidence of the bowl having flat out smudges without even a shred of a partial fingerprint retrieved. I have the same concerns with a lot of the "evidence", and its origin for being reported, and repeated over these many years in an unbelievably cruel form of telephone that may well be convincing an awful lot of people that the family is guilty when if you could look at the full evidence trail in complete context as it exists in official files you might come to a very different conclusion.

 

[msjprincess]

Not true - Patsy's handwriting was never ruled out. No one could say she definitely wrote the note but she was never ruled out as the author of the note. She also began changing the way she made her letter a's after the murder. Handwriting samples of things she wrote before the murder proved this.

I saw something this past week, can't remember which show since there have been so many where it said several experts had ruled her out.

 

[cabanafrau]

Her pediatrician has said he saw no signs of sexual molestation.

Don't we know that her mother had brought her in more than once with vaginitis or infections? Those could point to molestation, so a competent doc would have been looking for indications.