JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[Hikergirl]

Maybe Patsy drank enough where she just wanted to plop down and sleep without changing into pajamas. Maybe she just threw on the same stuff because they would be traveling and she didn't feel she needed a whole new outfit just to get on a plane.

 

[cabanafrau]

Not only that but then they leaked snippets of the interview to the press. Of course it was stuff that sounded bad, especially when it's only little bits of information.

But if that were true then it would be possible for a TV program or a book or other project about the case to pick a theory and only present bits and pieces that fit their theory and leave out anything else that left doubt or put the bits and pieces in their proper context so someone looking at them could give them the appropriate weight. It would be easy to fool an audience into believing your theory without letting them in on the fact that there is evidence that challenges the theory. That would surely never happen.

 

[nugov2]

I'm disappointed in the investigation ID show(part 1 is all I've watched). It is very tabloidy and skewed IMO. The professional interrogator and so called family friend are the most untrustworthy and phony people. Nothing they say is believable. I used to think the family was involved but looking more deeply at the evidence, i don't. It just doesn't add up. The police did a horrible thing to this family IMO.

 

[msjprincess]

About Patsy's clothes. People have said it was unusual for her. But how do they know? They're comparing it to situations where she's around other people and has a certain image. Maybe when she was home alone and not expecting company she threw the same clothes on in the morning before getting ready.

It dawned on me this morning when I threw on the clothes I was wearing last night to go in the yard for something. This is the first year that I don't walk my daughter to school. Last year I wouldn't have put the same clothes on because I knew I would be seeing other parents that I saw yesterday. So those people may think it's unusual for me to be in the same clothes in the morning. But it's not unusual at all for me to throw on the same clothes before showering if I'm not leaving the house.

 

[mnrose]

About Patsy's clothes. People have said it was unusual for her. But how do they know? They're comparing it to situations where she's around other people and has a certain image. Maybe when she was home alone and not expecting company she threw the same clothes on in the morning before getting ready.

It dawned on me this morning when I threw on the clothes I was wearing last night to go in the yard for something. This is the first year that I don't walk my daughter to school. Last year I wouldn't have put the same clothes on because I knew I would be seeing other parents that I saw yesterday. So those people may think it's unusual for me to be in the same clothes in the morning. But it's not unusual at all for me to throw on the same clothes before showering if I'm not leaving the house.

That's exactly what I do every single day. The clothes I wore the night before are laid on a chair next to my bed (neatly) and then I put them on. After I shower, I put on fresh clothes. My friends and the general public don't "see me" in the same clothes as I had on the day before, but people in my immediate family certainly do! LOL. Who has guests first thing in the morning enough times that they "know" your routine about when you actually choose fresh clothes for the day.

For the record, I do not sleep in pjs (which is true of a fairly sizable percentage of Americans....in my household, for example, only 1 in 4 of us uses pjs), so it's not like I change "out" of pjs to put on my clothes from the evening before.

 

[pryncess527]

About Patsy's clothes. People have said it was unusual for her. But how do they know? They're comparing it to situations where she's around other people and has a certain image. Maybe when she was home alone and not expecting company she threw the same clothes on in the morning before getting ready.

It dawned on me this morning when I threw on the clothes I was wearing last night to go in the yard for something. This is the first year that I don't walk my daughter to school. Last year I wouldn't have put the same clothes on because I knew I would be seeing other parents that I saw yesterday. So those people may think it's unusual for me to be in the same clothes in the morning. But it's not unusual at all for me to throw on the same clothes before showering if I'm not leaving the house.

Exactly. She also had not showered yet, which to me makes it very logical that she threw on the outfit to do her normal routine and would put on a fresh outfit after showering once the kids were up and fed.

 

[cabanafrau]

About Patsy's clothes. People have said it was unusual for her. But how do they know? They're comparing it to situations where she's around other people and has a certain image. Maybe when she was home alone and not expecting company she threw the same clothes on in the morning before getting ready.

It dawned on me this morning when I threw on the clothes I was wearing last night to go in the yard for something. This is the first year that I don't walk my daughter to school. Last year I wouldn't have put the same clothes on because I knew I would be seeing other parents that I saw yesterday. So those people may think it's unusual for me to be in the same clothes in the morning. But it's not unusual at all for me to throw on the same clothes before showering if I'm not leaving the house.

I agree. Add that to it being five thirty in the morning, in December when it's cold and dark out, they were at a party the night before and traveling today -- maybe she simply threw on the clothes as a half measure while taking care of things before leaving. But I'm sure that "strange fact" should have stood out to her in the situation and she should have thought to bring it to the attention of investigators so it was clearly understood. Surely now that she had the hole in her schedule because they didn't leave on their trip after all she had plenty of time to focus her attention to explaining something so strange and important.

 

[msjprincess]

I agree. Add that to it being five thirty in the morning, in December when it's cold and dark out, they were at a party the night before and traveling today -- maybe she simply threw on the clothes as a half measure while taking care of things before leaving. But I'm sure that "strange fact" should have stood out to her in the situation and she should have thought to bring it to the attention of investigators so it was clearly understood. Surely now that she had the hole in her schedule because they didn't leave on their trip after all she had plenty of time to focus her attention to explaining something so strange and important.

She may have. I've read a lot of suspicions from armchair detectives. But I haven't seen anything official on whether or not it was discussed with police.


ETA
And if it were me I probably wouldn't mention it unless the police asked about it. Because in my mind it's not unusual.

 

[cabanafrau]

She may have. I've read a lot of suspicions from armchair detectives. But I haven't seen anything official on whether or not it was discussed with police.

Oh, well if the armchair detectives got it covered I'm sure there's no need to bother with police.

Does anybody actually think that these TV programs and books and whatever else actually have access to the actual police rile in an open murder investigation? I don't have my armchair detective badge, but it sure seems to me like it might be important to look at a totality of the evidence before deciding such a confusing case.

 

[cabanafrau]

She may have. I've read a lot of suspicions from armchair detectives. But I haven't seen anything official on whether or not it was discussed with police.


ETA
And if it were me I probably wouldn't mention it unless the police asked about it. Because in my mind it's not unusual.

Exactly. With everything that was happening that morning, do you really think she would ever even consider bringing that up to the police? Would the fact that she didn't think to blurt that out to the police point to a guilty person hiding something, or a normal person not even registering that that is a "detail" to be considered at all?

From the police side of the equation, there was a certain period of time they thought they may be on the scene of a kidnapping. Does it seem likely they would be asking the family when and under what circumstances they came to be in the clothing they were standing there in? After they found the body those types of questions may have been asked, but I suspect given the circumstances it would have been well after the fact.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I can see myself going to a party the night before and the next morning throwing on the same clothes I wore last night. Especially if I'm about to fly on my private jet at 8 am to visit my step children in another state. No one who saw me last night will see me today so why not wear this pretty outfit again.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I agree. Add that to it being five thirty in the morning, in December when it's cold and dark out, they were at a party the night before and traveling today -- maybe she simply threw on the clothes as a half measure while taking care of things before leaving. But I'm sure that "strange fact" should have stood out to her in the situation and she should have thought to bring it to the attention of investigators so it was clearly understood. Surely now that she had the hole in her schedule because they didn't leave on their trip after all she had plenty of time to focus her attention to explaining something so strange and important.

How would that conversation look? "OMG my daughter is dead. And oh by the way they reason I'm wearing yesterday's jacket is I haven't showered yet. "

Yup that would not be an odd conversation. Everyone says she was wearing the same jacket. She may have had different pants and just the same jacket.

 

[Tasha228]

Okay, first of all, who granted permission for the tape with the child psychologist to even be aired publicly? Did it say? Because wouldn't that be a HUGE legal issue?

Second, how ridiculous about the picture of his family. He drew a picture of his mom, dad, and himself because that was his family that remained. That does not indicate murdering his sister to me. As an adult, I'd probably add my deceased child in the pic. As a 9 year old, I may have drawn the grave, or an angel, or left her out altogether because my mind worked differently as a child. He couldn't win if he tried. Had he drawn anything else, they would twist it to show he's a sociopath that was deeply troubled and jealous and murdered his sister. I believe had he included her in the picture, he still would have had that twisted somehow.

Dh and I enjoyed making a game of it at least, by pretending Dr. Phil also asked stuff such as this:

Dr. Phil: Burke, I heard you had an older sister that died in a car wreck years before JB. Did YOU cut her brakes or mess with her car somehow?

Dr. Phil: Did your mom hate her stepdaughter enough to arrange a car wreck?

Dr. Phil: Was your dad associated with anyone who had a mechanical knowledge of cars?

Seriously, Dr. Phil...leave that boy alone! You aren't going to get to be a hero and get your coerced confession today.

 

[gemini2727]

I guess in that scenario the pineapple isn't sinister or related to the murder, so it should be ignored as inconsequential and unrelated to the case.

It can't be ignored since the pineapple was in her system upon autopsy. So it has to fit into any scenario of the night's events. I agree with the PP that a bedwetting incident where Jonbenet is injured, followed by Patsy staging a crime scene doesn't make sense with the addition of a late night snack. It doesn't make sense.

 

[cabanafrau]

How would that conversation look? "OMG my daughter is dead. And oh by the way they reason I'm wearing yesterday's jacket is I haven't showered yet. "

Yup that would not be an odd conversation. Everyone says she was wearing the same jacket. She may have had different pants and just the same jacket.

Given the situation obviously the priority should be explaining her sartorial choices.

No, no, no, that's not how an investigation is done. "Everyone says" is the way to get to the truth. Probing for actual factual details is pointless.

 

[msjprincess]

It can't be ignored since the pineapple was in her system upon autopsy. So it has to fit into any scenario of the night's events. I agree with the PP that a bedwetting incident where Jonbenet is injured, followed by Patsy staging a crime scene doesn't make sense with the addition of a late night snack. It doesn't make sense.

About the bedwetting. Was it established as a fact that she wet the bed that night? I've searched but I can't find anything besides rumors.

 

[stitch'sgirl]

I'm disappointed in the investigation ID show(part 1 is all I've watched). It is very tabloidy and skewed IMO. The professional interrogator and so called family friend are the most untrustworthy and phony people. Nothing they say is believable. I used to think the family was involved but looking more deeply at the evidence, i don't. It just doesn't add up. The police did a horrible thing to this family IMO.

I thought part 2 was very interesting, as it focused on the suspects. There was a summary of Bill McReynolds whom I had read a lot about, but also Michael Helgoth who I really hadn't heard much about. Also they identified a drifter that attended JonBenet's candlelight vigil, had pictures of her plastered all over his walls and was found with a stun gun in his backpack. What struck me as really odd is that he cut out her pictures and put them on Monopoly money. Tonight's episode features Karr, who is beyond creepy. Not sure I want to watch that part. (but I know I will!)

 

[cabanafrau]

It can't be ignored since the pineapple was in her system upon autopsy. So it has to fit into any scenario of the night's events. I agree with the PP that a bedwetting incident where Jonbenet is injured, followed by Patsy staging a crime scene doesn't make sense with the addition of a late night snack. It doesn't make sense.

It was tongue in cheek. For the people who want to put forward the mom killing her and staging the rest the pineapple is a detail best disregarded.

Of course for those who insist the pineapple must be a sinister part of the plot there's also the hurdle of there not really being a definitive scientific answer as to the digestive rate of pineapple, so it's best to insist the pineapple was eaten during the night and was fed to her by her killer and pretend there is no disagreement amongst doctors in the field regarding the digestive rates.

Wow, this case is so easy to solve if you just pick a theory and ignore all the other stuff that is problematic or questions your theory.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

It can't be ignored since the pineapple was in her system upon autopsy. So it has to fit into any scenario of the night's events. I agree with the PP that a bedwetting incident where Jonbenet is injured, followed by Patsy staging a crime scene doesn't make sense with the addition of a late night snack. It doesn't make sense.

There are ways it can fit.

JBR gets up because she wet the bed, goes downstairs with her brother to get a snack. PR finds them eating, AND JBR is wet or in different clothes. PR goes off, kills her. Then the parents send the brother back to his room. They stage the crime scene.

Or, JBR and brother goes downstairs for the snack, brother kills her. Parents find out, send brother to bed and stage the crime scene.

Either explain the prints on the bowl. And the snack. And the clothes.

Edit to add: This doesn't mean that I believe that the night happened this way. Just that there are ways to explain the pineapple and clothes. And still have the parents or family involved.

 

[cabanafrau]

About the bedwetting. Was it established as a fact that she wet the bed that night? I've searched but I can't find anything besides rumors.

Who needs evidence? So much easier to prove if you rely on rumors and speculation and shape the viewpoint of carefully selected and parsed evidence.