Jon and Kate Plus 8 Official Thread - Part 6

[WaltD4Me]

If Jon talked to Kate the way she did to him, and if he was the one doing the "love tapping" it would be abuse. But if it's Kate doing it he's henpecked and liking it. Sad, very sad.

I'm tired of Jon's claims of abuse. It's a strong word and if he was truly abused, he seems to have no problem leaving the kids with Kate. What parent, leaving an abusive relationship, leaves their children with the abuser? None I've ever known or heard of, whether they say they were physically or verbally abused, all I can think of, took their kids when they left. Seriously, if Kate is such a horrible person, I don't see Jon making any moves to fight for custody or doing anything protective, like, I don't know, living nearby in case his children need him.

 

[DMRick]

While cleaning out my fav's, I came across this interview of Jon from last January. My, how things have changed:

http://theanti-gosselinswithoutpity.../jon-gosselin-in-utah-prorper-all-smiles.html

I thought the part about the show edits were interesting. He said they always resolve their problems, but in TLC edits, it will only show the disagreement, not the fix. He says Kate is more laid back then they show her, and he also says they will be together forever. This was in January. Kate's fav word is 'ummm'. His is 'like' LOL.

This site is an old site, and has moved here:
http://gosselinfamilyfansite.blogspot.com/

 

[redrosesix]

While cleaning out my fav's, I came across this interview of Jon from last January. My, how things have changed:

http://theanti-gosselinswithoutpity.../jon-gosselin-in-utah-prorper-all-smiles.html

I thought the part about the show edits were interesting. He said they always resolve their problems, but in TLC edits, it will only show the disagreement, not the fix. He says Kate is more laid back then they show her, and he also says they will be together forever. This was in January. Kate's fav word is 'ummm'. His is 'like' LOL.

This site is an old site, and has moved here:
http://gosselinfamilyfansite.blogspot.com/

I remember when we discussed this video on the last thread -- a lot of people got hung up on the hat. yes, he's very different than on the show (or is it that he's a different person when he's not with Kate?), but IMO that was the real Jon in the video -- you either like him or you don't. I also think he was pretty optimistic there -- he would have been in counseling for at least a month by then. Maybe at the time he thought things would work out between them?

One point not to be missed: When she says "Some day the show will come to an end" he mumbles "some day soon"

Sorry, but I just keep wondering whether the decision on whether or not to do the show was the thing that ultimately ended their marriage.

 

[DMRick]

I don't know what I believe about counseling or when/if it took place, or even what kind of counseling it was if it did. If he was honest in this interview, he felt at that time, that Kate was shown in a bad light, and he certainly thought (although I think it was harder than he thought it would be) that his staying home with the kids was a good choice at that time.

IMO, wanting to end the show wasn't the end of the marriage. I think it was way before that that it crumbled.

I really feel the only reason he wanted the show to end, was so he could keep himself private. I think he would have quickly missed the money.

There were lots of points not to be missed in that interview..much more interesting in retrospect, I thought.

I remember when we discussed this video on the last thread -- a lot of people got hung up on the hat. yes, he's very different than on the show (or is it that he's a different person when he's not with Kate?), but IMO that was the real Jon in the video -- you either like him or you don't. I also think he was pretty optimistic there -- he would have been in counseling for at least a month by then. Maybe at the time he thought things would work out between them?

One point not to be missed: When she says "Some day the show will come to an end" he mumbles "some day soon"

Sorry, but I just keep wondering whether the decision on whether or not to do the show was the thing that ultimately ended their marriage.

 

[newtodis]

Here a link to the "morning after" the interview on GMA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbyldPK6Zgo

 

[newtodis]

This is a video "in response" to Jon's interview with someone telling them that Jon is the one telling the paps where Kate will be and what to ask her.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=63001227

 

[newtodis]

I am an attorney and have recently gone through and finished a divorce with my narcissist ex-spouse. I also had my deposition taken (I have taken many myself.) I hereby offer you some gratuitous legal and strategic advice which should by no means conflict with whatever your attorney tells you. Not knowing which state you live in, it is impossible for me to offer any specific legal advice, and it would be improper for me to do so anyway. I scored a perfect "100" in my deposition taken by my narcissist-ex and lawyer.
I adhered to the following rules:
1. Never look at the Narcissist. The lack of attention will be very upsetting to the Narcissist. It is a kind of narcissistic injury. Do not acknowledge their existence.
2. Whether their lawyer believes their BS is irrelevant. There is an old reworked saying - "Hell hath no fury like the lawyer of a Narcissist scorned". The lawyer may try to rattle you or make you uncomfortable. Ignore such attempts. Remain calm, cool and professional and answer all questions honestly and slowly. Give your lawyer time to object before you answer.

3. Most Important!! ALWAYS tell the truth even if you think an answer to a question will make you look foolish, silly, or anything else. Do not attempt to explain your answers to make them sound better. Keep your answers brief and to the point. Do not ramble or tell stories.
Regarding Depositions: Just remember that the purpose of a deposition is not to change anyone's mind. The purpose of a deposition is to "freeze" your testimony in writing so that any change or departure at trial can be used to hang you. That is why it is so important to tell the simple truth and not to embellish. Do not try to prove yourself right or narcissist wrong.
The time and place to deal with the narcissist is in the courtroom. Let your lawyer do his job. Family law judges are used to the lying and emotionality that goes along with divorces. You must wear the white gloves and do nothing to indicate to the judge that you are sneaky or vengeful.

To summarize:

The real trick to beating a narcissist in court is twofold in nature.
FIRST: To catch them in a lie when they are on the stand is sublime.
But, you must have ABSOLUTE, INCONTROVERTIBLE proof of the lie, proof that is admissible in court by rules of evidence or by unassailable testimony. When confronted with the impeaching evidence, a narcissist will react with fury, more lying (which will be visible to everyone except the narcissist) and will in general actively discredit themselves.
SECOND: The second part of the process is more subtle. If possible, your counsel should structure the cross-examination of the narcissist to bring out and allow him to magnify his or her grandiose self. It is often enough just to let the narcissist be himself or herself. Emotionally-healthy individuals can generally see through the false self and discern the true motives of the narcissist.
Remember, though, at the end of the day, family law courts are generally not interested in the emotional aspects of your divorce. Most states are "no fault" divorce states, and even though judges are people and have emotions, generally they are interested in numbers and custody issues. Judges do tend to ignore all the drama, but if you can get a narcissist to lie under oath and properly expose them, this will have a bearing on the witness' credibility with the judge.
That is why it SO important for us to tell the truth at all times no matter how foolish we may think we look AND for us to conduct ourselves in a calm, rational and dignified manner.

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/divorce.html

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/02/divorce-advice-for-jon-from-an-attorney/page1/

 

[newtodis]

National Enquirer Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/10/national-enquirer-scan-sept-21-2009/page1/

Ok Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/10/ok-scan-sept-21-2009/page1/

InTouch Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/10/intouch-scans-sept-21-2009/page1/

Dog Whisper Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/10/cesar-dog-whisperer-magazine-fall-2009-scan/page1/

Entertainment Weekly Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/05/ew-scan-august-09-double-issue/page1/

Star Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/03/star-scans-sept-14-2009/page1/

 

[DMRick]

How do you handle it when you have two narcisistic people and they both want attention LOL.

I am an attorney and have recently gone through and finished a divorce with my narcissist ex-spouse. I also had my deposition taken (I have taken many myself.) I hereby offer you some gratuitous legal and strategic advice which should by no means conflict with whatever your attorney tells you. Not knowing which state you live in, it is impossible for me to offer any specific legal advice, and it would be improper for me to do so anyway. I scored a perfect "100" in my deposition taken by my narcissist-ex and lawyer.
I adhered to the following rules:
1. Never look at the Narcissist. The lack of attention will be very upsetting to the Narcissist. It is a kind of narcissistic injury. Do not acknowledge their existence.
2. Whether their lawyer believes their BS is irrelevant. There is an old reworked saying - "Hell hath no fury like the lawyer of a Narcissist scorned". The lawyer may try to rattle you or make you uncomfortable. Ignore such attempts. Remain calm, cool and professional and answer all questions honestly and slowly. Give your lawyer time to object before you answer.

3. Most Important!! ALWAYS tell the truth even if you think an answer to a question will make you look foolish, silly, or anything else. Do not attempt to explain your answers to make them sound better. Keep your answers brief and to the point. Do not ramble or tell stories.
Regarding Depositions: Just remember that the purpose of a deposition is not to change anyone's mind. The purpose of a deposition is to "freeze" your testimony in writing so that any change or departure at trial can be used to hang you. That is why it is so important to tell the simple truth and not to embellish. Do not try to prove yourself right or narcissist wrong.
The time and place to deal with the narcissist is in the courtroom. Let your lawyer do his job. Family law judges are used to the lying and emotionality that goes along with divorces. You must wear the white gloves and do nothing to indicate to the judge that you are sneaky or vengeful.

To summarize:

The real trick to beating a narcissist in court is twofold in nature.
FIRST: To catch them in a lie when they are on the stand is sublime.
But, you must have ABSOLUTE, INCONTROVERTIBLE proof of the lie, proof that is admissible in court by rules of evidence or by unassailable testimony. When confronted with the impeaching evidence, a narcissist will react with fury, more lying (which will be visible to everyone except the narcissist) and will in general actively discredit themselves.
SECOND: The second part of the process is more subtle. If possible, your counsel should structure the cross-examination of the narcissist to bring out and allow him to magnify his or her grandiose self. It is often enough just to let the narcissist be himself or herself. Emotionally-healthy individuals can generally see through the false self and discern the true motives of the narcissist.
Remember, though, at the end of the day, family law courts are generally not interested in the emotional aspects of your divorce. Most states are "no fault" divorce states, and even though judges are people and have emotions, generally they are interested in numbers and custody issues. Judges do tend to ignore all the drama, but if you can get a narcissist to lie under oath and properly expose them, this will have a bearing on the witness' credibility with the judge.
That is why it SO important for us to tell the truth at all times no matter how foolish we may think we look AND for us to conduct ourselves in a calm, rational and dignified manner.

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/divorce.html

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/02/divorce-advice-for-jon-from-an-attorney/page1/

 

[newtodis]

How do you handle it when you have two narcisistic people and they both want attention LOL.

LOL

A bit OT - please take a moment and remember today. It's a very quiet day here at the fire house and I'm happy to have this thread as a bit of a distraction when it's needed (today and other days). Please never forget...

 

[TanyaLovesPooh]

I think a big contributing factor to the downfall of the marriage was Jon quitting his job. When Jon had a job that he went to everyday, he and Kate had that time apart and a break from each other. Once he was home daily they were together and had all day to get under each other's skin. Those two personalities could never survive that much time together.

I realize that later came a couple of book tours and they had time apart then but by that time the damage was done. They both took advantage of each other and did not treat the other person with love and consideration. When you make too many withdrawals from the love bank with no deposits, there is nothing left but bitterness, hurt and resentment.

 

[SarahandPaul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfB3rfuaq_Y

Kathy Griffin's Katie Video

 

[DMRick]

LOL

A bit OT - please take a moment and remember today. It's a very quiet day here at the fire house and I'm happy to have this thread as a bit of a distraction when it's needed (today and other days). Please never forget...

There are gatherings all over our area..we'll be attending one tonight. It's a date that will never be forgotten.

 

[DMRick]

Did he quit (if he did quit) before her tours? I thought he quit to be with the kids (which I always thought was a bad idea, since he had already said he was glad he could leave the house and the noise and go to work during the day) because she was touring. I've often wondered, if he lost his job (just wondering, nothing to go on) and that's when they decided he would be the one to stay home, since it wasn't him the tour/speech people wanted anyway.

I think a big contributing factor to the downfall of the marriage was Jon quitting his job. When Jon had a job that he went to everyday, he and Kate had that time apart and a break from each other. Once he was home daily they were together and had all day to get under each other's skin. Those two personalities could never survive that much time together.

I realize that later came a couple of book tours and they had time apart then but by that time the damage was done. They both took advantage of each other and did not treat the other person with love and consideration. When you make too many withdrawals from the love bank with no deposits, there is nothing left but bitterness, hurt and resentment.

 

[redrosesix]

This is a video "in response" to Jon's interview with someone telling them that Jon is the one telling the paps where Kate will be and what to ask her.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=63001227

Wow -- she came back fighting. I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, I don't think this will ever end. IMO, even when there was a gag order on Jon, Kate and her friends took every opportunity to say something bad about Jon every week. Enough already.

National Enquirer Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/10/national-enquirer-scan-sept-21-2009/page1/

Ok Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/10/ok-scan-sept-21-2009/page1/

InTouch Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/10/intouch-scans-sept-21-2009/page1/

Dog Whisper Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/10/cesar-dog-whisperer-magazine-fall-2009-scan/page1/

Entertainment Weekly Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/05/ew-scan-august-09-double-issue/page1/

Star Scan:

http://preesi.lefora.com/2009/09/03/star-scans-sept-14-2009/page1/

That was a lot of work -- thanks for posting these. Although I did look at all of them, the one thing that stands out in my mind was the from the Star article -- confirms they make $75,000 each per episode.

Did he quit (if he did quit) before her tours? I thought he quit to be with the kids (which I always thought was a bad idea, since he had already said he was glad he could leave the house and the noise and go to work during the day) because she was touring. I've often wondered, if he lost his job (just wondering, nothing to go on) and that's when they decided he would be the one to stay home, since it wasn't him the tour/speech people wanted anyway.

I thought it was a little different than either of those scenarios ie. that Jon was forced to quit his job because he couldn't work the hours that were required of him due to taping (the person I know who does IT Security works something like 3 12-hour days in the office, 3 12-hour nights on call, only 1 full day off per week, and when he's on call he has to log in and fix any problem within 1/2 hour -- so I can see that causing a lot of issues for taping).

But once Jon was going to be at home full time that would leave Kate open to doing book tours etc so there would be no loss of income.

 

[mousey]

Kathy Griffin is too funny in that video. I'm sure there is going to be more to follow. I guess J & K are part of her comedy show too. You can't blame these comedians for picking up on this stuff. Between the two of them and their recent interviews they put themselves out there. I just feel sorry for the kids--they don't have the choice of turning the cameras off.

More negative feedback on the "View" concerning Kate as a cohost. One women referred to her as a "rooster haired freak" who's 15 min of fame have long been over. Other posters think Jon should be given equal time. Maybe someone will create a new show "Reality Star Rejects" and J & K could pursue that.

 

[OhMari]

OhMari,
I'm a lurker on this thread...but is the book Fahrenheit 451?

I think it is, I didn't want to name the book, in case I was wrong.

 

[DMRick]

It's so hard to tell what is true and what is just being said. The one mag said Jon and Hailey were breaking up, yet someone just posted that another mag said she was in his town.

Did Kate reply to his interview? Or was it yet another 'source'. I don't know who or what to believe anymore. If Kate were smart, she would just not respond. If the mags want me to believe them, please give me the actual source.

 

[FergieTCat]

Kevin and Jodi have been awfully quiet lately.

 

[MusiqChic99]

It's so hard to tell what is true and what is just being said. The one mag said Jon and Hailey were breaking up, yet someone just posted that another mag said she was in his town.

Did Kate reply to his interview? Or was it yet another 'source'. I don't know who or what to believe anymore. If Kate were smart, she would just not respond. If the mags want me to believe them, please give me the actual source.

I think if she responded she would do it on a TV show or People.