Jon and Kate Plus 8, Official Thread-Part 3

[Kycha]

Especially when J&K say they're just a normal family living their lives like other families.

I haven't heard J&K refer to themselves as a normal family in a long, long time.

Wow. Most of what you just said about them is hearsay. We have no idea what the dr. told them not to do and we have no idea about thier relationship/finances after the twins. I had only been married for about a year when I got pregnant...shame on me!!

It sounds like there could be some bitterness...you said you wanted a bigger family but made the decision not to go in that direction. Kate wanted a bigger family and decided to go for it. Just b/c she didn't make the same decision, doesn't make her less of a person.

I don't know for sure since I didn't read it, but I think Kate wrote about the pregnancy(and all the fertility stuff) in her book.

 

[DMRick]

Yep, most of us don't go out to get fertility treatments and then go against everything our doctors tell us. It all boils down to Kate always doing what Kate wants, when Kate wants. No one told Kate to have 8 kids. And when this all blows over, and we find out that J&K blew all that money (if they did), who's going to pay for those 8 kids? They're already getting a free ride on college tuition by the State of PA, but who's going to pay the rest of their bills?

Ouch, no really, tell us how you really feel about Kate. Wow, assume much? She went against everything her doc told her? So, she really didn't do the bed rest? And you think they have already blown all their money and are planning on us paying for the kids??

Are they? The state giving a free tution? I see where they opened an account for them (the S of PA) and invited others to put in it, but I haven't been able to figure out if they acutally gave them 8 college tuitions. I really am curious about this, because I haven't been able to find that they actually did. If they did, that's great for the kids.

 

[phamton]

I don't know for sure since I didn't read it, but I think Kate wrote about the pregnancy(and all the fertility stuff) in her book.

Kate did write about the over stimulation to the ovaries and her hospitalization from the hyper-stimulation. She was told from the ultrasound that 3 possibly 4 follicles had developed on the ovaries so she thought there might be a possibility of triplets or quads. She was OK with that and decided to try to conceive that month. She ended up in the hospital later from complications of the hyper-stimulation.

Some of the speculation on this thread was indeed written about in the book. I've noticed many times people have said that "no one knows" what Kate thought about something but she has discussed it in the book.

 

[DMRick]

Kate did write about the over stimulation to the ovaries and her hospitalization from the hyper-stimulation. She was told from the ultrasound that 3 possibly 4 follicles had developed on the ovaries so she thought there might be a possibility of triplets or quads. She was OK with that and decided to try to conceive that month. She ended up in the hospital later from complications of the hyper-stimulation.

Some of the speculation on this thread was indeed written about in the book. I've noticed many times people have said that "no one knows" what Kate thought about something but she has discussed it in the book.

I've said no one knows lots and lots of times. Prob the most of anyone on this thread. But that has been about things that aren't in the book, and things we really don't know. We don't know what they have done with their money. We don't know that the children should be considered mistreated for being on the show. We don't know that K & J are cheating. We don't know if Kevin and Jodi are being honest, we don't know how much time she spends with her kids when she is traveling. We don't know what really goes on in the privacy of their home, etc.

I did read the first book, but I don't remember..did she say she wasn't supposed to have sex, but did anyway and that was why she had so many children? Is this similar to why they plant extra eggs (the extra follicles), that it's a possibility there will be multiples, or when there is extra follicles, does that mean that they most likely will be that amount of babies? I do know that it can be very expensive to do over fertility treatment. Did they book say anything about that being the reason they may have gone ahead with the procedure? I really don't know any of these things, or when I read the first book, I just didn't care, so I didn't pay much attention.

 

[phamton]

I did read the first book, but I don't remember..did she say she wasn't supposed to have sex, but did anyway and that was why she had so many children?

They didn't have intercourse. She said in the book that she had intrauterine insemination--no romance, no flowers, just a cold metal table with bright overhead lights and her feet in stirrups.

So I assume that the doctor did agree to the insemination during that cycle. She did say that she and Jon discussed the possibility of quads and were OK with that. They don't usually try for extra eggs unless they are doing implantation. Most times anything more than 2 follicles is a "no go." I do think it is up to the patient though with 3 follicles.

With implanting fertilized eggs they usually need extra eggs. But she didn't do implantation. She and Jon wanted either one child or twins but she said they would still be happy with triplets, or quads.

 

[turkeymama]

I've said no one knows lots and lots of times. Prob the most of anyone on this thread. But that has been about things that aren't in the book, and things we really don't know. We don't know what they have done with their money. We don't know that the children should be considered mistreated for being on the show. We don't know that K & J are cheating. We don't know if Kevin and Jodi are being honest, we don't know how much time she spends with her kids when she is traveling. We don't know what really goes on in the privacy of their home, etc.

I did read the first book, but I don't remember..did she say she wasn't supposed to have sex, but did anyway and that was why she had so many children? Is this similar to why they plant extra eggs (the extra follicles), that it's a possibility there will be multiples, or when there is extra follicles, does that mean that they most likely will be that amount of babies? I do know that it can be very expensive to do over fertility treatment. Did they book say anything about that being the reason they may have gone ahead with the procedure? I really don't know any of these things, or when I read the first book, I just didn't care, so I didn't pay much attention.

I don't know a lot about fertility treatments, but I thought I remembered her saying once that the type of treatment they used didn't involve implanting actual eggs.

 

[DMRick]

Just some snippets on the GWOP site, that I was curious about. I don't know if any of this is fact or fiction, but I figured for those who don't care for Kate, they would accept what is on that site:

They (Kevin and Jodi) were shown watching the Gosselin children during the "Mady's Day", "Cara's Day", "Leah's Day", "Hannah's Day", "Alexis' Day" and "Jon's Hair Raising Experience" episodes during season three.

Are these the main times that Kevin and Jodi babysat? Or where there other times shown? Just curious if these were the times the $3300 for the lighting wasn't pay enough. I thought I had read that they babysat a whole bunch of times. Just curious why GWOP only mention these times. I would expect them to mention all the times to prove how much they sat.

By October, Kate was pregnant. Five weeks later,(after being hospitalized for over-stimulated ovaries) at the initial ultrasound, the doctor announced that there were seven sacs and began to count how many of these sacs had yolks, or babies, inside of them. According to Kate, "By ‘four’ I was pretty crazy, by ‘five’ I was sobbing. Then they found 'six' and 'seven'. (One baby didn’t develop on its own)". The doctor suggested selective reduction, but they were absolutely against doing so.

So was she already pregnant when she was hospitalized? I find this confusing. It sounds to me like she was already pregnant, when the over stimulated ovaries happened but that doesn't make much sense (but then I don't know a lot about the different fertilization programs). But I would have assumed that GWOP would have been sure to mention if she messed up somehow.

If you would like to make a contribution to the Gosselin Family’s TAP account, you can do so by making your check payable to “TAP 529,” writing “Gosselin” in the memo portion of the check, and sending your contributions to: Gosselin Sextuplets and Twins Accounts, TAP Bureau, 218 Finance Building, Harrisburg, PA 17120. More information on the Tuition Account Program can be obtained by calling 1-800-440-4000 or by visiting the Treasury website and clicking on Tuition Account Program.

Due to privacy issues, the amounts donated to these accounts is not known, and may or may not be substantial.

This is what was posted on the net about the college tuitions. It makes me think that PA didn't give the tuitions, but just set up an account. Does anyone else read it that way?

 

[DMRick]

I don't know a lot about fertility treatments, but I thought I remembered her saying once that the type of treatment they used didn't involve implanting actual eggs.

Yes,I do know now that they didn't implant eggs. I just wondered if having sex when they see that many follicles means that you will definately have that amount of kids, or do they like to see that many follicles, because the chances are greater that one or more will take. Often they put in more eggs, knowing you could have more than one child, but yet, that is a chance most people take, to be insured of at least one child.

 

[DMRick]

Thanks for the info. Although I think it wasn't neccesary to say it was just a cold metal table, no romance, no flowers, stittups, like it was not still something special. For some, just knowing they might be making a baby or two is romance enought. Or were those Kate's words? If so, ouch.

And yes, it does sound like it was OK with her doctor, or I assume it wouldn't have happened.

They didn't have intercourse. She said in the book that she had intrauterine insemination--no romance, no flowers, just a cold metal table with bright overhead lights and her feet in stirrups.

So I assume that the doctor did agree to the insemination during that cycle. She did say that she and Jon discussed the possibility of quads and were OK with that. They don't usually try for extra eggs unless they are doing implantation. Most times anything more than 2 follicles is a "no go." I do think it is up to the patient though with 3 follicles.

With implanting fertilized eggs they usually need extra eggs. But she didn't do implantation. She and Jon wanted either one child or twins but she said they would still be happy with triplets, or quads.

 

[Family Fun Mom]

Yep....but my comment was to the PP who was talking about how great her Aunt was because she had 7 children....not this outing in particular.

I personally wouldn't want to be in charge of 6 kids who just turned 5.

She never said her aunt was "great," (which she very well may be, who knows?) she merely pointed out that it is humanly possible to leave the house with 7 or 8 kids and live to tell the tale. Lots of parents do it without helpers and without applause.

Kate is no more amazing than any other mom with a big family. In fact, she is much less so because she has a staff to help her.

 

[Family Fun Mom]

Did anyone else realize that Kate waited until the day before the party to go by the party stuff? Most moms I know have that stuff well in advance, but we usually forget something and have to send dh out to get it.

Yeah, and they specifically mention Party City. They don't say "they went to the store" they make sure the name is mentioned. Can anyone say staged? Scripted? Ummm, product placement???

I don't believe for one minute she had any part in planning that party. She just went on her staged outing for the episode.

 

[Family Fun Mom]

Oh, I forgot...no one can read between the lines, everything must be taken literally. Doesn't all of this strongly disagreeing with Kate's actions and looking down from our pedestals take a lot of energy? Everyone who ALWAYS makes the best choices and knows what they would do in any and all situations including being faced with providing for 8 children and would never ever be the "horrible" mother Kate is, please turn your televisions to another show?

Since this thread seems to bother you so much, you could always take your own advice and go read a different one.

 

[Kycha]

Just some snippets on the GWOP site, that I was curious about. I don't know if any of this is fact or fiction, but I figured for those who don't care for Kate, they would accept what is on that site:

They (Kevin and Jodi) were shown watching the Gosselin children during the "Mady's Day", "Cara's Day", "Leah's Day", "Hannah's Day", "Alexis' Day" and "Jon's Hair Raising Experience" episodes during season three.

Are these the main times that Kevin and Jodi babysat? Or where there other times shown? Just curious if these were the times the $3300 for the lighting wasn't pay enough. I thought I had read that they babysat a whole bunch of times. Just curious why GWOP only mention these times. I would expect them to mention all the times to prove how much they sat.

Jodi and Kevin babysat many more times than what you have quoted. Those were the days that Kate specifically said that Jodi was babysitting so Jon and Kate could have a one on one day with each of their kids. Kate said that Jodi offered to babysit the kids. And Jodi and Kevin weren't filmed for all those shows.

The more and more I think about it the more I have to question Jodi's(and in extension, Kevin's) motives. Last year, Jodi posted a video on her sister's blog to set the record straight on her "disappearance" from the show. She stated that she was only interested in protecting the kids. That is why she would often offer to babysit. She said she thought of her home as a get away for the Gosselin kids. A place where they could go to get away from the cameras and the madness. Great, right?

Yet, it didn't take long for Jodi and Kevin to agree to have lights put in their own home. And they allowed filming of the children on at least 2 occasions in their home that I can recall. So, what about that get away or safe haven? Huh? And who in their right minds would allow camera crews to come into their home to film and not sign a contract or be compensated in some way??? I think that is one of the craziest things I have ever heard.

 

[dicar123]

So was she already pregnant when she was hospitalized? I find this confusing. It sounds to me like she was already pregnant, when the over stimulated ovaries happened but that doesn't make much sense (but then I don't know a lot about the different fertilization programs). But I would have assumed that GWOP would have been sure to mention if she messed up somehow.

I know a little something about hyperstimulation. The danger arises from having so many follicles ripen. It makes the ovary heavy and can lead to the possibility of torsion. This is when the ovary twists on it's "stem" and cuts off blood supply to the organ.

I would guess that for at least a some period of time, the ovary remains heavy even after the eggs are released because the 'scar" left behind on the ovary provides some hormonal support for the egg as it travels and possibly implants.

I have known a few women who have hyperstimulated on fertility meds, none were hospitalized, although their activites were curtailed. ALL had any further treatment for that month cancelled. I believe the next cycle was also taken off so as to allow the ovaries to get back to normal.

It seems possible that Kate could have been in the early days of pregnancy when she was hospitalized. However, the period of greatest danger would have passed by then. If the hospitalization was precautionary, this timeline would make little sense. If the hospitalization was for cause (any evidence of torsion occurring), the result, as far as I know, would have been surgery to save the ovary. I believe this is an emergency condition that could not have been put off because of a possible pending pregnancy.

In short, the story, as it has been repeated here, doesn't make much sense.

 

[dicar123]

I'm going to add to my post for clarity. I knew several women who hyperstimulated on fertility meds while planning an IUI or allowing nature to take it's course (family board, you know). They were explicitly told not to engage in activites. An IUI, if planned, was cancelled.

Women are routinely hyperstimulated in order to gather eggs for an invitro procedure. The POINT is to get as many eggs ripening as possible. I've known several women who went through this process and none of them were hospitalized either.

 

[themilesfamily]

YIPES!!! I just came across this. Now this is not a gossip mag, or a blog. Read the last section. (Graciousness, The Lesson You Left Out.) This was published in the Detroit News.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090521/OPINION03/905210449/1031

This is an open letter to Kate Gosselin written by Alyssa Martina -- "founder, president and publisher of Metro Parent Magazine." Kate Gosselin was a part of the Metro Parent Magazine's Distinguished Speakers Series in Detroit last week.

She slams Kate Gosselin in this letter -- not for what she said as a speaker, but for how she treated people at the event, (the hosts, the sponsors, etc.)

 

[JennaTX]

So what is Kate supposed to do?

People don't want her to be away from home on book tours, speaking engagements, etc.

People don't want her to stay home because she chose to have the children, so she needs to support them.

She can't wear a mini skirt either.

Sorry I am 38 and still wear short skirts. I also go out and get pedicures, have lunch with my girlfriends only, and my DH takes the kids to school in the morning.

Why is there nothing said about Jon not supporting his family, not working, etc? Some people act like this is all a surprise to Jon and not what he signed up for....sorry he had a choice with whom he chose to marry and the children he had. He is married and has 8 children. If he wants out, fine, then do it like a man and be prepared to support your children both emotionally and finacially.

Why do women pick on other women so much? I swear I don't understand this at all. You don't see men posting on here about how Jon got free hair plugs.

 

[phamton]

Thanks for the info. Although I think it wasn't neccesary to say it was just a cold metal table, no romance, no flowers, stittups, like it was not still something special. For some, just knowing they might be making a baby or two is romance enought. Or were those Kate's words? If so, ouch.

Those were Kate's words in the book. This is the exact wording from the book: "No romantic dinner, long stemmed roses, smooth wine or flickering candle light preceded the event. Instead it was a date with a cold sterile room, bright overhead lights, and awkward stirrups."

Her hospitalization for over-stimulation occurred 2 weeks later. The doctor at the hospital told her that her abdomen was filled with fluid and that her ovaries had blown up to the size of a newborn's head. i do know that when you get pregnant that the follicles that released the eggs can continue to grow as hormones are released. I had an ovarian cyst the size of a grapefruit when I was pregnant with my first. It eventually shrunk.

 

[DMRick]

YIPES!!! I just came across this. Now this is not a gossip mag, or a blog. Read the last section. (Graciousness, The Lesson You Left Out.) This was published in the Detroit News.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090521/OPINION03/905210449/1031

This is an open letter to Kate Gosselin written by Alyssa Martina -- "founder, president and publisher of Metro Parent Magazine." Kate Gosselin was a part of the Metro Parent Magazine's Distinguished Speakers Series in Detroit last week.

She slams Kate Gosselin in this letter -- not for what she said as a speaker, but for how she treated people at the event, (the hosts, the sponsors, etc.)

It's late, I have finally completed working for the night, so maybe I'm just too tired to see it..but what is she saying she did wrong? Do you think she didn't share enough of her private life? Didn't stay and chat? I can't wait to hear if others can figure out what it is she did wrong. This lady seemed to enjoy the actual speech part (I didn't quote that, just the part where she said she wasn't gracious). I wish if the writter thought she was rude, she would have said how.
Off to grab some sleep..more work in the morning.


**************
I think, however, you forgot one very important lesson that is also a crucial skill for parents, Kate. Graciousness is a critical skill and attribute for all parents. You failed to show any graciousness in your appearance last week. I did not find you to be a particularly kind, warm or nice person. You were unfriendly and actually quite aloof and rude to your hosts and sponsors. There were many people in the audience who perceived a sense of snootiness as well. I know because they came up to me afterward and mentioned it.

I often tell parents that we model the way for our kids. The lesson of graciousness captures traits of kindness and generosity of spirit, both important in building character in our children. Graciousness is more than social etiquette; it's the quality of being pleasant, thoughtful and kind-hearted. As parents, when we act graciously, we demonstrate to our children that we value this trait and want to see it in them. The way to raise a kind and gracious child is to be a kind and gracious person.

Kate, I know you are going through a difficult time, as rumors abound about your marriage and personal life. Unfortunately, when you decided to share your life with a huge viewing audience, you gave away many of your rights to claim privacy. You clearly enjoy several benefits and perks of a celebrity lifestyle. This was clear in your new "look," sporting a lovely new hairstyle and arms that rival Michelle Obama's. But that doesn't mean that you need to be haughty or carry an air of self-privilege at the expense of others. Otherwise, you risk being seen as an opportunistic "Octo-mom" looking for fame and glory. Remember that parents said they like you specifically because they relate to you as the "mom next door" and not as a self-important starlet.

Kate, you are entitled to have it all. I wish you and your precious family much success in the journey ahead. You deserve a wonderful and enriching life. But please understand that you can't demand the accoutrements of a celebrity life without also knowing there is a downside: namely, losing some of your freedom and privacy. As you continue to be in the public eye, don't lose sight of this thought: Wherever you go, whatever you do, walk with kindness, compassion and gratitude for others as well as yourself and know that you model the way, not only for your children, but for parents everywhere. That is the most important message we can pass on to others.

 

[DMRick]

What a sad way to think of it. I didn't pick up on that when I read the book.

Those were Kate's words in the book. This is the exact wording: "No romantic dinner, long stemmed roses, smooth wine or flickering candle light preceded the event. Instead it was a date with a cold sterile room, bright overhead lights, and awkward stirrups."