Jesus changed my life!!!!!

[eclectics]

Did you have to ask?


Seriously, I hope this isn't turned into yet another Catholic bashing thread. I'm not Catholic but I'm sick of them.

I liked this one when we were discussing questions and sharing beliefs. There are plenty of CB religious threads that are like where this one seems to be heading.

I too hope it doesn't get hijacked into a "my religion is better than yours" fight, as most seem to turn into. That is why I am enjoying this one so much , it's been educating, not confronting.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I too hope it doesn't get hijacked into a "my religion is better than yours" fight, as most seem to turn into. That is why I am enjoying this one so much , it's been educating, not confronting.

Me too. There's enough of that everywhere else in the world, I was enjoying our little happy place.

 

[phillybeth]

Did you have to ask?


Seriously, I hope this isn't turned into yet another Catholic bashing thread. I'm not Catholic but I'm sick of them.

I liked this one when we were discussing questions and sharing beliefs. There are plenty of CB religious threads that are like where this one seems to be heading.

I was raised Catholic, so it won't be me bashing them And since most people would consider me to have no religion, I can honestly say that I will never get into a "my religion is better than yours" argument either

 

[ncdisneyfan]

If you read the testimonies of those you have shared on this thread-that's exactly what they have all done. They have sought out God and they have found Him.

Accepting another person's search and conclusion as valid for them is not relativism. I don't have to believe that all religions are the same to be accepting of another person's spiritual journey. I love this thread because I am learning about different traditions. Learning about my neighbor helps me to be more loving toward them because I'm not blinded by prejudice and ignorance.

They may have tried to find God, but according to the beliefs held by various religions (Islam, Mormonism, Judaism, etc...), many have not found the God of the Bible, unfortunately.

It's one thing to say that people have all found a different path - they clearly have. It's another thing entirely to say that ALL those different paths will lead to God - that's not found in the Bible.

 

[ncdisneyfan]

WHOA. Are you saying that a 'backwoods redneck' cannot be inspired by God? That in order to be legitimate you must have perfect grammar, spelling, punctuation and diction? Wow. Just, wow. That's just... wow.


I don't care what your personal problem with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is. By definition, if they believe in the divinity of Jesus they are Christian. End of story.

I'm sure you must have a problem with the Primacy of the Pope- does that mean Catholics are not Christian?

I think you know exactly what I mean when I'm referencing the grammatical errors. God is not the author of confusion, and being perfect, he would not be "inspiring" anyone to write with grammatical errors included. You are assuming, of course, that Smith was inspired by God, which I don't believe He was, which the Bible backs up, b/c Mormonism preaches a different God and a different Jesus.

I don't have a "personal" problem with them as people, my issue lies with they are playing themselves off as Christians, as believing the same that fundamental Christianity does, and they clearly don't.

As to the Pope, he is no closer to Jesus than I am, and doesn't have any more power or authority to do anything that I can't do.

 

[ncdisneyfan]

See that's what I'm saying, God didn't change. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I think I said that in 3 posts, maybe more.

I disagree with you about the Jews changing their beliefs in God. I agree that Jesus was rejected by them, but I disagree that their beliefs changed.
I read Psalm 22 and see the prophesy of the cruel death of my savior and wonder how I interpret it one way and others a different way. Jenni, maybe you have some insight on this.

Then why don't they believe that Jesus is God's Son, and the Savior of the world? That's what Christians believe about Jesus (and therefore God), right?

 

[phillybeth]

I think you know exactly what I mean when I'm referencing the grammatical errors. God is not the author of confusion, and being perfect, he would not be "inspiring" anyone to write with grammatical errors included.

It's not for me to determine who is inspired by God. But who is to say God does not speak in a language and format similar and comfortable to the person he is inspiring?

God may be perfect, but His inspired writings have been handed down as oral traditions for generations, finally written down in multiple languages, translated, retranslated, re-re-translated, and misinterpreted. Anyone claming that the modern Bible contains the direct inspired Word of God either does not know or chooses to ignore history.

 

[ncdisneyfan]

There is NOTHING that could, would or should make me believe that the God of the OT Jews isn't the same God.

Your choice, as I've said.

Do you know what you sound like to me? You sound like those people who say, "OK, go ahead and believe in God, that is fine with me. But I choose not to believe in God and because I don't believe in God, that is OK and nothing will happen to me when I die because I didn't believe and if I don't believe in God, nothing can happen to me anyway."
Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean there isn't going to be a God to answer to when they die.

I agree with this, I don't think I've said anything to the contrary. As I've said, there are some who will be unpleasantly surprised when they die.

God is the same God whether the Jews believe Jesus was the messiah or not.

I agree.

Just because the Jews don't believe in Jesus, doesn't change who God is.

I agree.

The God Jenny believes in and prays to is the same one I believe in and pray to. No, she doesn't believe Jesus was who He said He was but God is the same God.

Here's where I disagree. She prays to a god who is not also Jesus, who didn't send His Son to die for us, and who is not a triune God. That's a different god than the God I pray to.

My belief tells me we both can't be right when it comes to Christ. That is for sure. But God is the same (yesterday, today and tomorrow). I think that I can respect Jenny's belief and her w/o agreeing with her. I think she does the same with me.

You are right, someone is wrong when it comes to that. I respect Jenny's, and anyone's, right to their beliefs, but doesn't mean I respect the beliefs themselves, and of course I don't agree with the beliefs.

 

[cardaway]

Based on what the Bible absolutely says, correct.

Where do you buy these bibles that differ from the ones everybody else uses?

 

[Fitswimmer]

It's one thing to say that people have all found a different path - they clearly have. It's another thing entirely to say that ALL those different paths will lead to God - that's not found in the Bible.

Your journey has led you to the conclusion that the Bible is the ultimate authority. Nobody is challenging the validity of your conclusion, all anyone is saying is that is not the conclusion that their journey led them to.

My faith teaches me that God is the ultimate authority of right and wrong for humanity. The conclusion I draw from that is I do not have the authority to judge what is right and wrong for anyone other than myself, and even then, I could be wrong-because I'm not God.

 

[JennyMominRI]

See that's what I'm saying, God didn't change. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I think I said that in 3 posts, maybe more.

I disagree with you about the Jews changing their beliefs in God. I agree that Jesus was rejected by them, but I disagree that their beliefs changed.
I read Psalm 22 and see the prophesy of the cruel death of my savior and wonder how I interpret it one way and others a different way. Jenni, maybe you have some insight on this.

For the Leader; upon Aijeleth ha-Shahar. A Psalm of David.

2 My G-d, my G-d, why hast Thou forsaken me, and art far from my help at the words of my cry?

3 O my G-d, I call by day, but Thou answerest not; and at night, and there is no surcease for me.

4 Yet Thou art holy, O Thou that art enthroned upon the praises of Israel.

5 In Thee did our fathers trust; they trusted, and Thou didst deliver them.

6 Unto Thee they cried, and escaped; in Thee did they trust, and were not ashamed.

7 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

8 All they that see me laugh me to scorn; they shoot out the lip, they shake the head:

9 'Let him commit himself unto HaShem! let Him rescue him; let Him deliver him, seeing He delighteth in him.'

10 For Thou art He that took me out of the womb; Thou madest me trust when I was upon my mother's breasts.

11 Upon Thee I have been cast from my birth; Thou art my G-d from my mother's womb.

12 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

13 Many bulls have encompassed me; strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

14 They open wide their mouth against me, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

15 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is become like wax; it is melted in mine inmost parts.

16 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my throat; and Thou layest me in the dust of death.

17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

18 I may count all my bones; they look and gloat over me.

19 They part my garments among them, and for my vesture do they cast lots.

20 But Thou, O HaShem, be not far off; O Thou my strength, hasten to help me.

21 Deliver my soul from the sword; mine only one from the power of the dog.

22 Save me from the lion's mouth; yea, from the horns of the wild-oxen do Thou answer me.

23 I will declare Thy name unto my brethren; in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.

24 'Ye that fear HaShem, praise Him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify Him; and stand in awe of Him, all ye the seed of Israel.

25 For He hath not despised nor abhorred the lowliness of the poor; neither hath He hid His face from him; but when he cried unto Him, He heard.'

26 From Thee cometh my praise in the great congregation; I will pay my vows before them that fear Him.

27 Let the humble eat and be satisfied; let them praise HaShem that seek after Him; may your heart be quickened for ever!

28 All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn unto HaShem; and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before Thee.

29 For the kingdom is HaShem'S; and He is the ruler over the nations.

30 All the fat ones of the earth shall eat and worship; all they that go down to the dust shall kneel before Him, even he that cannot keep his soul alive.

31 A seed shall serve him; it shall be told of the L-rd unto the next generation.

32 They shall come and shall declare His righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that He hath done


According to the Jewish Study Bible, this psalm of David is read on Purim and is viewed by Jewish tradition as David lamenting over the future exile of his people in the book of Esther.[7] Christian interpreters see the 22nd Psalm as looking forward to the Messiah, who would fulfill its words by “Suffering” for the sins of the people in accordance with Isaiah 52:13-53:12 and Daniel 9:26.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I too hope it doesn't get hijacked into a "my religion is better than yours" fight, as most seem to turn into. That is why I am enjoying this one so much , it's been educating, not confronting.

Frankly I'm just doing my best to ignore some posts...I'm just *not* going there.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Then why don't they believe that Jesus is God's Son, and the Savior of the world? That's what Christians believe about Jesus (and therefore God), right?

We are all sons and daughters of God..Quite simply He doesn't fullfil our prophecies and he does not have the proper lineage.

 

[KimR]

Your choice, as I've said.

Here's where I disagree. She prays to a god who is not also Jesus, who didn't send His Son to die for us, and who is not a triune God. That's a different god than the God I pray to.

Well, then you could just as easily say that not all Christians pray to the same God. Just to take an example from this thread (I think it was this thread, anyway): some Christians believe God is influencing each and every aspect of their lives: from providing a parking spot close to the mall on a day they are tired and in a hurry to curing disease. They see God's hand in everything. Others believe that events unfold on their own based on chance and the decisions we make. Although God can influence things for the most part, he chooses not to. So would you then say that not all Christians pray to the same God?

 

[lovethattink]

Then why don't they believe that Jesus is God's Son, and the Savior of the world? That's what Christians believe about Jesus (and therefore God), right?

In my opinion, sort of. As I see it, their God hasn't changed, and neither has their beliefs. Instead if was the messianic Jews and the gentiles who converted to Christianity that had a change in belief in their God. God still remained the same, but they accepted his gift of a savior. It was they who changed their belief.

 

[cardaway]

Well, then you could just as easily say that not all Christians pray to the same God.

That poster doesn't have any problem with saying all Christians don't pray to the same God because he is willing to tell people they are not Christians.

I suggest people take the advice of others and ignore the troll trying to turn this thread into his personal message against people who don't believe exactly what he believes.

 

[JennyMominRI]

In my opinion, sort of. As I see it, their God hasn't changed, and neither has their beliefs. Instead if was the messianic Jews and the gentiles who converted to Christianity that had a change in belief in their God. God still remained the same, but they accepted his gift of a savior. It was they who changed their belief.

I just wanted to point out that to Christians Messiah= savior(from sin)
To Jews Messah does NOT = savior...Our messiahs have different purposes .

 

[lovethattink]

I just wanted to point out that to Christians Messiah= savior(from sin)
To Jews Messah does NOT = savior...Our messiahs have different purposes .

Can you elaborate? And I noticed the plural there, very interesting.

 

[ead79]

This thread has been so interesting in the short time I've been participating in it. Let's keep it that way and go on with our discussions.

Jenny, I think you've mentioned this before with regards to Jesus being the Messiah. Didn't you say that Christians believe that many of the prophesies regarding the Messiah will happen with the second coming of Christ, whereas Jewish people reject his Messiah-ship because He did not fulfill all the prophecies when He was here? I know you also mentioned the lineage issue, and I've got to research that further. We have always been taught that God was Jesus' father, not Joseph, making Joseph's lineage not as vital as Mary's. However, I believe you also mentioned that in the case of adoption in Jewish tradition, the adopted child would take the linage of his adoptive father.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Can you elaborate? And I noticed the plural there, very interesting.

I used plural in the sense that we are looking for messiahs with different purposes,so either one of us is *wrong* or there are 2 messiahs.

For Christians..Your messiah will save you from sin
For Jews,first you have to realize there is no hell,not eternal damnation in Judaism,and Jews have always believed that we can atone for sin in several ways(Teshuvah, Yom Kippor ) etc..
SO the Jewish messiah is a political leader,who is a biological descendent of King David. He will bring the Jews back to Israel and cause few other things,like world peace..He must be ONLY human,as the idea of G-d as a man is idolatry to Jews .It's no different then worshiping a golden calf..And the Messiah must do all of this before he dies..Death precludes someone from being Messiah.
We share some messianic prophecies,but many that you consider messianic,are not messanic to Jews..