Jesus changed my life!!!!!

ead79 said:
This thread has been so interesting in the short time I've been participating in it. Let's keep it that way and go on with our discussions.

Jenny, I think you've mentioned this before with regards to Jesus being the Messiah. Didn't you say that Christians believe that many of the prophesies regarding the Messiah will happen with the second coming of Christ, whereas Jewish people reject his Messiah-ship because He did not fulfill all the prophecies when He was here? I know you also mentioned the lineage issue, and I've got to research that further. We have always been taught that God was Jesus' father, not Joseph, making Joseph's lineage not as vital as Mary's. However, I believe you also mentioned that in the case of adoption in Jewish tradition, the adopted child would take the linage of his adoptive father.

No,it's the opposite..There is no such thing as adoptive lineage in Jewish law...If a baby of the priestly tribe is adopted by a different tribe,that baby is still considered to be ofthe Priesitly tribe..He would retain the duties and rewards of a priest ..Conversely,if a priest adopted a baby of a different tribe that baby would not become a priest
Lineage is passed down by the biolical father..The Messiahs lineage is to be very specfic..He must be a biological descendant of david,through Solomons line,but he may not pass through the cursed Jeconiahs line
Mary's lineage means absolutely nothing as lineage does not pass through the mother.
 
Learned something new again. Thanks for sharing your view!

Now can you explain what you meant earlier by read on Purim? What is Purim?
 
phillybeth said:
God may be perfect, but His inspired writings have been handed down as oral traditions for generations, finally written down in multiple languages, translated, retranslated, re-re-translated, and misinterpreted. Anyone claming that the modern Bible contains the direct inspired Word of God either does not know or chooses to ignore history.

I believe the God who created the universe certainly has the power to make sure His Word says exactly what He intended for it to say.
 
JennyMominRI said:
No,it's the opposite..There is no such thing as adoptive lineage in Jewish law...If a baby of the priestly tribe is adopted by a different tribe,that baby is still considered to be ofthe Priesitly tribe..He would retain the duties and rewards of a priest ..Conversely,if a priest adopted a baby of a different tribe that baby would not become a priest
Lineage is passed down by the biolical father..The Messiahs lineage is to be very specfic..He must be a biological descendant of david,through Solomons line,but he may not pass through the cursed Jeconiahs line
Mary's lineage means absolutely nothing as lineage does not pass through the mother.
Oops, it appears I got that a little bit backwards! So a person's "Judaism" passes from the mother but their lineage/tribe passes from the father? I think the heart of the issue is that Christians believe that God is Jesus' biological father, making the lineage issue a tricky one. I believe you also said that Joseph's lineage does pass down from David through Solomon, but then goes through Jeconiah's line as well. Do you know where in the Old Testament it says that the Messiah cannot come from Jeconiah's line? I hate to admit it, but often when reading the Bible I tend to skip over the long detailed lineages (we nicknamed them the "begots"--like Ben begot Sam who begot Aaron, etc.), but now I see how vital and important they are in Jewish faith.
 

ncdisneyfan- I don't want to sound like I'm pointing fingers or being harsh, but in some of your posts, you come off a little bit strong, perhaps with a bit of an angry tone :confused3 . I know some of the others have shared their testimony and background and that has helped me to understand where they are coming from. For instance, Jenny was a Christian who has converted to Judiasim for reasons that she has shared with us and some others have either no affiliation to an organized religion or have gone away and have come back to a certain faith. I'm not trying to pressure you but, perhaps if you would be willing to share either your testimony and or background I could gain a better understanding of where it is that you're coming from in your posts.
 
lovethattink said:
Learned something new again. Thanks for sharing your view!

Now can you explain what you meant earlier by read on Purim? What is Purim?
A Purim! The Jewish Halloween..The holiday where one is to drink until the cannot tell the difference between Bad Haman and good Mordechai

I'm going to copy and paste this


Purim commemorates a time when the Jewish people living in Persia were saved from extermination.

The story of Purim is told in the Biblical book of Esther. The heroes of the story are Esther, a beautiful young Jewish woman living in Persia, and her cousin Mordecai, who raised her as if she were his daughter. Esther was taken to the house of Ahasuerus, King of Persia, to become part of his harem. King Ahasuerus loved Esther more than his other women and made Esther queen, but the king did not know that Esther was a Jew, because Mordecai told her not to reveal her identity.

The villain of the story is Haman, an arrogant, egotistical advisor to the king. Haman hated Mordecai because Mordecai refused to bow down to Haman, so Haman plotted to destroy the Jewish people. In a speech that is all too familiar to Jews, Haman told the king, "There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the peoples in all the provinces of your realm. Their laws are different from those of every other people's, and they do not observe the king's laws; therefore it is not befitting the king to tolerate them." Esther 3:8. The king gave the fate of the Jewish people to Haman, to do as he pleased to them. Haman planned to exterminate all of the Jews.

Mordecai persuaded Esther to speak to the king on behalf of the Jewish people. This was a dangerous thing for Esther to do, because anyone who came into the king's presence without being summoned could be put to death, and she had not been summoned. Esther fasted for three days to prepare herself, then went into the king. He welcomed her. Later, she told him of Haman's plot against her people. The Jewish people were saved, and Haman was hanged on the gallows that had been prepared for Mordecai.

The book of Esther is unusual in that it is the only book of the Bible that does not contain the name of G-d. In fact, it includes virtually no reference to G-d. Mordecai makes a vague reference to the fact that the Jews will be saved by someone else, if not by Esther, but that is the closest the book comes to mentioning G-d. Thus, one important message that can be gained from the story is that G-d often works in ways that are not apparent, in ways that appear to be chance, coincidence or ordinary good luck.

Purim is celebrated on the 14th day of Adar, which is usually in March. The 13th of Adar is the day that Haman chose for the extermination of the Jews, and the day that the Jews battled their enemies for their lives. On the day afterwards, the 14th, they celebrated their survival. In cities that were walled in the time of Joshua, Purim is celebrated on the 15th of the month, because the book of Esther says that in Shushan (a walled city), deliverance from the massacre was not complete until the next day. The 15th is referred to as Shushan Purim.

In leap years, when there are two months of Adar, Purim is celebrated in the second month of Adar, so it is always one month before Passover. The 14th day of the first Adar in a leap year is celebrated as a minor holiday called Purim Katan, which means "little Purim." There are no specific observances for Purim Katan; however, a person should celebrate the holiday and should not mourn or fast. Some communities also observe a "Purim Katan" on the anniversary of any day when their community was saved from a catastrophe, destruction, evil or oppression.

The word "Purim" means "lots" and refers to the lottery that Haman used to choose the date for the massacre.

The Purim holiday is preceded by a minor fast, the Fast of Esther, which commemorates Esther's three days of fasting in preparation for her meeting with the king.

The primary commandment related to Purim is to hear the reading of the book of Esther. The book of Esther is commonly known as the Megillah, which means scroll. Although there are five books of Jewish scripture that are properly referred to as megillahs (Esther, Ruth, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, and Lamentations), this is the one people usually mean when the speak of The Megillah. It is customary to boo, hiss, stamp feet and rattle gragers (noisemakers; see illustration) whenever the name of Haman is mentioned in the service. The purpose of this custom is to "blot out the name of Haman."

We are also commanded to eat, drink and be merry. According to the Talmud, a person is required to drink until he cannot tell the difference between "cursed be Haman" and "blessed be Mordecai," though opinions differ as to exactly how drunk that is. A person certainly should not become so drunk that he might violate other commandments or get seriously ill. In addition, recovering alcoholics or others who might suffer serious harm from alcohol are exempt from this obligation.

In addition, we are commanded to send out gifts of food or drink, and to make gifts to charity. The sending of gifts of food and drink is referred to as shalach manos (lit. sending out portions). Among Ashkenazic Jews, a common treat at this time of year is hamentaschen (lit. Haman's pockets). These triangular fruit-filled cookies are supposed to represent Haman's three-cornered hat. My recipe is included below.

It is customary to hold carnival-like celebrations on Purim, to perform plays and parodies, and to hold beauty contests. I have heard that the usual prohibitions against cross-dressing are lifted during this holiday, but I am not certain about that. Americans sometimes refer to Purim as the Jewish Mardi Gras.

Purim is not subject to the sabbath-like restrictions on work that some other holidays are; however, some sources indicate that we should not go about our ordinary business on Purim out of respect for the holiday.
 
jimmiej said:
I believe the God who created the universe certainly has the power to make sure His Word says exactly what He intended for it to say.


If a passage in the Bible is translated or interpreted two different ways by two different translators, and one of them is incorrect, who gets to decide which one God gave the power to?
 
ead79 said:
Oops, it appears I got that a little bit backwards! So a person's "Judaism" passes from the mother but their lineage/tribe passes from the father? I think the heart of the issue is that Christians believe that God is Jesus' biological father, making the lineage issue a tricky one. I believe you also said that Joseph's lineage does pass down from David through Solomon, but then goes through Jeconiah's line as well. Do you know where in the Old Testament it says that the Messiah cannot come from Jeconiah's line? I hate to admit it, but often when reading the Bible I tend to skip over the long detailed lineages (we nicknamed them the "begots"--like Ben begot Sam who begot Aaron, etc.), but now I see how vital and important they are in Jewish faith.


Yes..Here aresome references
And you are right, Jewishness is determined through the mother..Lineage through the father...Incidentally it was determined to go *through the house of their Fathers*, in the book ofNumbers

One of the simplest requirements for being the Messiah is the lineage. In the Jewish scriptures we see prophecies of a king from David's line sitting on the throne of Israel once more:

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it: it [is] even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. [8] For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, [that] I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: [9] But they shall serve the LORD their G-d, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them. (KJV)
David had been given an oath from the Almighty that the throne of Israel would always belong to his line, which we find in the Jewish Bible repeatedly:

Jeremiah 33:17 For thus said HASHEM: There shall not be cut off from David a man who sits on the throne of the House of Israel. [18] And for the Kohanim, the Levites, there will never be cut off a man from before Me who offers elevation-offerings and burns meal-offerings and performs feast-offerings all the days. [19] The word of HASHEM came to Jeremiah, saying: [20] Thus said HASHEM: If you could annul My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that day and night would not come in their proper times, [21] so too could My covenant be annulled with David, My servant, so that he would not have a descendant reigning on his throne, or [My covenant] with the Levites and the Kohanim, My attendants. (Artscroll)

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. [35] Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. [36] His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. [37] It shall be established for ever as the moon, and [as] a faithful witness in heaven. Selah. (KJV)
So, from here we see that G-d took an oath that the throne would always belong to David and his descendants. However, the oath was supplemented by another pledge:

1 Chronicles 22:9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build a house for my name; and he shall be My son, and I [will be] his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. (KJV)
So we see, any man who would sit on the throne must not only be a descendant of King David, but specifically a descendant of David’s son, Solomon. This requirement was made even more stringent in the days prior to the Babylonian exile. Jeconiah, King of Judah, was a wicked king, and his actions pushed G-d too far. G-d punished Jeconiah, also known as Jehoiachin or Coniah:

Jeremiah 22:24 [As] I live, saith the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence; [25] And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand [of them] whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans. [26] And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die. [27] But to the land whereunto they desire to return, thither shall they not return. [28] [Is] this man Coniah a despised broken idol? [is he] a vessel wherein [is] no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? [29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. [30] Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man [that] shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (KJV)

This devastating curse effectively removes all descendants of Jeconiah from the royal line. So from the verses listed above we see that anyone who would sit as king must be descended from King Solomon but not descended from King Jeconiah. We see that this curse is binding, because after Jeconiah was deposed, instead of the throne being handed to his son, it passed to Zedekiah, his uncle. No descendant of Jeconiah ever held the throne, or ever can hold the throne. His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king.
 
eclectics said:
If a passage in the Bible is translated or interpreted two different ways by two different translators, and one of them is incorrect, who gets to decide which one God gave the power to?
The higher power ;)
Just peekin' in on Jenny's class :goodvibes
 
Jenny, thanks for the explanation. I have to say that as I was reading it, I couldn't help but picture my toddler's Veggietale's video of Esther.
 
JennyMominRI said:
Yes..Here aresome references
And you are right, Jewishness is determined through the mother..Lineage through the father...Incidentally it was determined to go *through the house of their Fathers*, in the book ofNumbers

One of the simplest requirements for being the Messiah is the lineage. In the Jewish scriptures we see prophecies of a king from David's line sitting on the throne of Israel once more:

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it: it [is] even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. [8] For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, [that] I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: [9] But they shall serve the LORD their G-d, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them. (KJV)
David had been given an oath from the Almighty that the throne of Israel would always belong to his line, which we find in the Jewish Bible repeatedly:

Jeremiah 33:17 For thus said HASHEM: There shall not be cut off from David a man who sits on the throne of the House of Israel. [18] And for the Kohanim, the Levites, there will never be cut off a man from before Me who offers elevation-offerings and burns meal-offerings and performs feast-offerings all the days. [19] The word of HASHEM came to Jeremiah, saying: [20] Thus said HASHEM: If you could annul My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that day and night would not come in their proper times, [21] so too could My covenant be annulled with David, My servant, so that he would not have a descendant reigning on his throne, or [My covenant] with the Levites and the Kohanim, My attendants. (Artscroll)

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. [35] Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. [36] His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. [37] It shall be established for ever as the moon, and [as] a faithful witness in heaven. Selah. (KJV)
So, from here we see that G-d took an oath that the throne would always belong to David and his descendants. However, the oath was supplemented by another pledge:

1 Chronicles 22:9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build a house for my name; and he shall be My son, and I [will be] his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. (KJV)
So we see, any man who would sit on the throne must not only be a descendant of King David, but specifically a descendant of David’s son, Solomon. This requirement was made even more stringent in the days prior to the Babylonian exile. Jeconiah, King of Judah, was a wicked king, and his actions pushed G-d too far. G-d punished Jeconiah, also known as Jehoiachin or Coniah:

Jeremiah 22:24 [As] I live, saith the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence; [25] And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand [of them] whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans. [26] And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die. [27] But to the land whereunto they desire to return, thither shall they not return. [28] [Is] this man Coniah a despised broken idol? [is he] a vessel wherein [is] no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? [29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. [30] Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man [that] shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (KJV)

This devastating curse effectively removes all descendants of Jeconiah from the royal line. So from the verses listed above we see that anyone who would sit as king must be descended from King Solomon but not descended from King Jeconiah. We see that this curse is binding, because after Jeconiah was deposed, instead of the throne being handed to his son, it passed to Zedekiah, his uncle. No descendant of Jeconiah ever held the throne, or ever can hold the throne. His grandson, Zerubbabel, held power granted by G-d, but was never king.

Thanks for all this info, Jenny. I would say that this goes back to what you were saying before about how Christians and Jewish people are looking for two different things in a Messiah. We don't view ours as a literal king to rule Judah (well, until the millennial reign of Christ following His second coming when we believe He will rule over the earth for 1,000 years), whereas Jewish people do believe in a literal ruler/king from what I've understood you to say.
 
eclectics said:
If a passage in the Bible is translated or interpreted two different ways by two different translators, and one of them is incorrect, who gets to decide which one God gave the power to?
My belief based on the Bible is that God gave us the Holy Spirit to guide us when interpreting the Scriptures. Also, I see it as critical to interpret Scripture in light of other Scripture and look at it as a whole, rather than take singular verses or passages and look at them individually (which can lead to misinterpretation). So I would say that God via the Holy Spirit guides us in interpreting His Word. Plus, much of Scripture is not hotly debated and is interpreted the same way by various denominations and religions. That's just my two cents. :)
 
ead79 said:
Thanks for all this info, Jenny. I would say that this goes back to what you were saying before about how Christians and Jewish people are looking for two different things in a Messiah. We don't view ours as a literal king to rule Judah (well, until the millennial reign of Christ following His second coming when we believe He will rule over the earth for 1,000 years), whereas Jewish people do believe in a literal ruler/king from what I've understood you to say.
You've got it Also you could say that for Christians everything that you view as asign to recognize the messiah,is the actual job of theJewish Messiah..You Messiah does more, he saves you from damnation..Ours doesn't
 
cardaway said:
Where do you buy these bibles that differ from the ones everybody else uses?
Mine doesn't differ (except maybe from the Catholic Bible or the New World Translation). Everything I say is found in all standard versions of the Bible (NAS, KJV, NIV, RSV, etc...)
 
Fitswimmer said:
Your journey has led you to the conclusion that the Bible is the ultimate authority. Nobody is challenging the validity of your conclusion, all anyone is saying is that is not the conclusion that their journey led them to.

My faith teaches me that God is the ultimate authority of right and wrong for humanity. The conclusion I draw from that is I do not have the authority to judge what is right and wrong for anyone other than myself, and even then, I could be wrong-because I'm not God.
There's either absolute truth, or there's not. To believe otherwise is relativism. If you believe in absolute truth, then there are some who will go to Heaven for their beliefs, and some who will go to hell. And the Bible clearly outlines the beliefs one must have in order to go to Heaven.

Do you believe in absolute truth?
 
I have a new question for everyone. If you go to a church, temple, mosque, etc., how did you choose the church you attend vs going to other similar ones? Do you consider the other members of that church to be your church family? Do you feel part of that church community?
 
ncdisneyfan said:
Mine doesn't differ (except maybe from the Catholic Bible or the New World Translation). Everything I say is found in all standard versions of the Bible (NAS, KJV, NIV, RSV, etc...)
I'm willing to bet that your bible is quite different from mine
 
KimR said:
Well, then you could just as easily say that not all Christians pray to the same God. Just to take an example from this thread (I think it was this thread, anyway): some Christians believe God is influencing each and every aspect of their lives: from providing a parking spot close to the mall on a day they are tired and in a hurry to curing disease. They see God's hand in everything. Others believe that events unfold on their own based on chance and the decisions we make. Although God can influence things for the most part, he chooses not to. So would you then say that not all Christians pray to the same God? :confused3
Your question is too open-ended, with too many variables to answer definitively. Define Christian, for one. And there'll be disagreement on that, probably, based on previous definitions of "Christian" in this thread. Besides, whether God influences our lives or not is not a "saving" attribute of God. Whether Jesus is who He said He was is, that's a big difference.
 
lovethattink said:
I have a new question for everyone. If you go to a church, temple, mosque, etc., how did you choose the church you attend vs going to other similar ones? Do you consider the other members of that church to be your church family? Do you feel part of that church community?
I joined the one I'm at because it was the one that provided conversion options..I do love it and feelat home there..There are not as many options for Shuls as there are for churches.
 


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