I've never started a political thread before, but WOW

The point was whether or not McCain knows how to use a computer?

The fact that it morphed into an "Obama makes fun of McCain's POW injuries" proves the point that the outrage-du-jour crowd are jumping through their rear ends looking for opportunities to play the victim card.

Politics is a contact sport and no one is above criticism whether they're a senator from Illinois, a senator from Arizona or a "lipstick wearing pit bull" from Alaska. If you want to get into the presidential political arena expect to get your nose bloodied. That's an easy prerequisite to what the job will really do to you.

Btw, neither the Republican party nor Sarah Palin own the term "lipstick". And the phrase "lipstick on a pig" has been around a long, long time.

I'm done with this discussion because the thing speaks for itself.


LOL, you should be in politics, you're pretty good at the sidestep and you didn't answer my question. Also, I find it ironic that you go back to the lipstick thing when my question is if your candidate set himself up by chosing a bad example to use based on the potential for public response. If you are upset that politics is a contact sport and people are getting upset when folks "get tough", why are you getting so upset by my question. I'll restate:

Was it a good idea for Obama to bring up the e-mail thing with the potential backlash he could receive because of McCains previously stated difficulties in using a keyboard.
 


Transparent, I have worked with multiple functional quadriplegics - many with severe spasicity and pain syndromes , with only gross motor control of upper extremities and "some" control of thumb or fingers.....and many of them can use a computer. Heck....even drive a car!

Do not say BS.

If he desired to, he could.

I have no problem with him not working with computers. I just ask that he be aware of how they impact our lives (and I think he does).

You grossly underestimate the potential of those with physical disabilities.
 
Was it a good idea for Obama to bring up the e-mail thing with the potential backlash he could receive because of McCains previously stated difficulties in using a keyboard.

Not LuvDuke, but I'll answer.

Sure, it was a good idea, because I think that most people will take the ad in the context it was meant. It's purpose was to portray Obama as the younger, hipper candidate who has his finger on the pulse of America and to portray McCain as an old fuddy duddy who hasn't kept up with modern advances. I thought it was very effective, and taken in context, not the least bit disrespectful of McCain's physical limitations. McCain himself said he was computer illiterate and had never sent an email and indeed, had never felt the need to. Had he said " I can't use a computer or send email because it is physically painful for me to do so" then the ad would have been in poor taste. McCain himself brought up this issue.

Only someone who is small minded, myopic, and unable to put the sound bite in context with the rest of the ad would be offended by this.
 
If the guy has a physical problem that makes doing something harder and chooses to avoid it, big whup.

I have a balance problem due to a head injury I had as a kid. I avoid balance beams. The gym teacher wanted me to use other kids or poles to complete the thing even after I explained my balance issue, so mom got the doctor to write me a note out of it.

Had to walk a line for the cops once. Told them I wasn't drunk, but there was no way I could walk a straight line...I could only demonstrate my inability to do so, would they like me to do the blowy thing?

I avoid doing the things with which I have a hard time. So flippin what.

Besides, who gives a ratt's butt whether the guy types his own emails or has someone else do it? I know PLENTY of people who get someone else to do that stuff for them who don't have physical issues.
 

Transparent, I have worked with multiple functional quadriplegics - many with severe spasicity and pain syndromes , with only gross motor control of upper extremities and "some" control of thumb or fingers.....and many of them can use a computer. Heck....even drive a car!

Do not say BS.

If he desired to, he could.

I have no problem with him not working with computers. I just ask that he be aware of how they impact our lives (and I think he does).

You grossly underestimate the potential of those with physical disabilities.

I'm sure he wants to use the computer and he can. Just at times avoids it - just like the guys I work with. Is that a bad thing???
 
I'm sure he wants to use the computer and he can. Just at times avoids it - just like the guys I work with. Is that a bad thing???

I have already said this many times. I don't care if he accesses a computer personally or not.

But I do not get your response. Didn't you respond "BS" to McCain can't use a computer because he doesn't want to?
 
I have already said this many times. I don't care if he accesses a computer personally or not.

But I do not get your response. Didn't you respond "BS" to McCain can't use a computer because he doesn't want to?

Yeah - I did. I'm sure he DOES want to - he just can't at times. What don't you get about that?
 
/
LOL, you should be in politics, you're pretty good at the sidestep and you didn't answer my question. Also, I find it ironic that you go back to the lipstick thing when my question is if your candidate set himself up by chosing a bad example to use based on the potential for public response. If you are upset that politics is a contact sport and people are getting upset when folks "get tough", why are you getting so upset by my question. I'll restate:

Was it a good idea for Obama to bring up the e-mail thing with the potential backlash he could receive because of McCains previously stated difficulties in using a keyboard.

Since you seem like a sincere person asking an honest question, I'll jump back into the discussion.

McCain NEVER said he couldn't use a computer because of his injuries. He said he was "computer illiterate" and had to rely on his wife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rpamTKMlKw


McCain NEVER said he couldn't use a keyboard because of his POW injuries. That was another stretch by the "outrage-du-jour" crowd used to smear Obama.

The "outrage-du-jour" crowd brought up McCain's injuries to explain his being computer illiterate, not McCain.

If you opened this thread wondering why anyone in their right mind would poke fun at a former POW's injuries that prevented him from using a keyboard, you'd be absolutely correct in questioning.

The issue here is that you opened this thread asking for clarification based on something McCain NEVER said that was used to smear Obama based on something he NEVER said.

Frankly, I couldn't believe the story that was being put out there by the "outrage-du-jour" crowd and that someone actually believed it.

I don't know where you heard that Obama poked fun at McCain's POW injuries. At this point, it should be abundantly clear that too many good hearted people, like yourself, have been taken in by a lie and a smear.

As has been pointed out many times in this thread, people with greater handicaps than McCain use a computer. If Stephen Hawking, a quadripeligic suffering from ALS, can figure out a way, so could McCain. The difference is Hawking wants to and McCain doesn't.

Btw, an intelligent person does think about what they're going to say.

However, that same person cannot tailor everything they say in the hopes that it will stop someone in the "outrage-du-jour" crowd from distorting what they said or telling outright lies. That is why they are the "outrage-du-jour" crowd and they're getting wilder by the day.
 
You know it really is too bad for Obama that only US citizens get to chose the POTUS.


Just another example of socialists sticking together. The supreme socialist, BO, is favored by most socialist countries. This is because he would be bring the socialist philosophy as POTUS.
 
There was another article on this today...if anyone is interested.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/why-doesnt-mcca.html

Assuredly McCain isn't comfortable talking about this -- and the McCain campaign discouraged me from writing about this -- but the reason the aged Arizonan doesn't use a computer or send email is because of his war wounds.

I realize some of the nastier liberals in the blogosphere will see this as McCain once again "playing the POW card," but it's simply a fact: typing on a regular keyboard for any sustained period of time bothers McCain physically.

He can type, he occasionally does type, but in general the injuries he sustained as a POW -- ones that make it impossible for him to raise his arms high enough to comb his hair -- mean that small tasks make his shoulders ache, so he tries to avoid any repetitive exercise.

Again, it's not that he can't type, he just by habit avoids when he can repetitive exercise involving his arms. He does if he has to, as with handshaking or autographs

I thought it interesting that the McCain camp discouraged him from writing the piece.
 
Public education is in the toilet because of the government. They know nothing about teaching and should let teachers, etc. do their thing instead. That is one of the reasons we do not want the government getting so involved in healthcare. Fool me once...


Public education is not in the toilet everywhere. However, the public education system in the US is broken. The fault does not fall solely on the government. They do bare a significant load though. I realize this statement is not going to be a popular one. Along with the government is the teachers Union and the parents. Between the three, they have destroyed the education system of this country.

Before I go into issues I see with the teachers Union, let me go over problems with the school systems lack of proper support of teachers:
  • Teachers starting salaries are far below acceptable levels.
    • Some school systems are still in the 24,000 range.
  • Constantly running out of supplies due to insufficient school budgets.
    • Many teachers pay out of pocket to purchase supplies for classroom projects.
  • School buildings are aging and in disrepair. This results in unsafe or unhealthy environments for our children.
  • Classrooms lack the resources such as computers to help educate the children.
  • Education solely focuses on English, math, science, history and a few other extra curricular courses.
    • Schools have moved away from teaching trades to our children.
    • Trades such as
      • Automotive
      • Computers
      • Cooking
      • Carpentry
      • Electricians
      • Plumbers
      • etc
    • Growing up there were still a few vocational schools left.
    • Today, vocational schools are all but gone.
I am sure there are more, these are the highlights.

Now for my issues with teacher unions. (which is going to go over like a lead balloon.)
  • For the first ten years of a teachers career, they are guaranteed raises in the form of steps.
    • These steps are assessed by other teachers in the school system.
  • Once a teacher hits 10 years, they are tenured.
    • Most teachers that are tenured are not an issue. However, for the small percentage of tenured teachers that are on autopilot good luck getting rid of them.
    • And the other teachers will defend the poor teachers to the death.
    • At the expense of our children education.
Parents bare just as much blame as the teachers or the government.
  • Far too many parents are hands off. They send their kids to school, and rely on the school system to do everything from educate to coddle.
    • When a child is struggling in class, the parent blames the teacher or the school system.
  • The successful teaching formula is where the school system and the parent(s) are active in the education of the child.
  • Involvement in school functions is extremely low by parents.
    • When I go to school events where the whole school participates, far to few parents are there.
    • I realize this is during school hours, but are you telling me that a parents work is more important than being there to support your child?
When someone starts saying it's the governments fault that education in the US is failing, realize that it's not just the fault of the federal government. There is no one fix. In order to fix education in the US, there will need to be a major shift. One that breaks the current funding model, increases starting pay for teachers to be competitive with other professions.

Another piece that should be looked at is summer's off. Many school systems around the country have already moved away from this model. Summer's off was instituted for farmers. This would allow the farmer's children to work the farm during the growing months. Lengthen the school year and spread out vacations. This will prevent the summer dullness from occurring.

In college, you could not get into the education degree program unless you had a 3.0 GPA or better. I commend that effort. However, that does not answer the issue of low paying jobs. Why does someone want to jump into being a teacher starting at 24K when they could go into business, law, or be a doctor at a much higher starting pay.


Thank you
 
Sure, it was a good idea

Only someone who is small minded, myopic, and unable to put the sound bite in context with the rest of the ad would be offended by this.

I don't need to add anything. Your tone says more than your words.
 
Public education is not in the toilet everywhere. However, the public education system in the US is broken. The fault does not fall solely on the government. They do bare a significant load though. I realize this statement is not going to be a popular one. Along with the government is the teachers Union and the parents. Between the three, they have destroyed the education system of this country.

Before I go into issues I see with the teachers Union, let me go over problems with the school systems lack of proper support of teachers:
  • Teachers starting salaries are far below acceptable levels.
    • Some school systems are still in the 24,000 range.
  • Constantly running out of supplies due to insufficient school budgets.
    • Many teachers pay out of pocket to purchase supplies for classroom projects.
  • School buildings are aging and in disrepair. This results in unsafe or unhealthy environments for our children.
  • Classrooms lack the resources such as computers to help educate the children.
  • Education solely focuses on English, math, science, history and a few other extra curricular courses.
    • Schools have moved away from teaching trades to our children.
    • Trades such as
      • Automotive
      • Computers
      • Cooking
      • Carpentry
      • Electricians
      • Plumbers
      • etc
    • Growing up there were still a few vocational schools left.
    • Today, vocational schools are all but gone.
I am sure there are more, these are the highlights.

Now for my issues with teacher unions. (which is going to go over like a lead balloon.)
  • For the first ten years of a teachers career, they are guaranteed raises in the form of steps.
    • These steps are assessed by other teachers in the school system.
  • Once a teacher hits 10 years, they are tenured.
    • Most teachers that are tenured are not an issue. However, for the small percentage of tenured teachers that are on autopilot good luck getting rid of them.
    • And the other teachers will defend the poor teachers to the death.
    • At the expense of our children education.
Parents bare just as much blame as the teachers or the government.
  • Far too many parents are hands off. They send their kids to school, and rely on the school system to do everything from educate to coddle.
    • When a child is struggling in class, the parent blames the teacher or the school system.
  • The successful teaching formula is where the school system and the parent(s) are active in the education of the child.
  • Involvement in school functions is extremely low by parents.
    • When I go to school events where the whole school participates, far to few parents are there.
    • I realize this is during school hours, but are you telling me that a parents work is more important than being there to support your child?
When someone starts saying it's the governments fault that education in the US is failing, realize that it's not just the fault of the federal government. There is no one fix. In order to fix education in the US, there will need to be a major shift. One that breaks the current funding model, increases starting pay for teachers to be competitive with other professions.

Another piece that should be looked at is summer's off. Many school systems around the country have already moved away from this model. Summer's off was instituted for farmers. This would allow the farmer's children to work the farm during the growing months. Lengthen the school year and spread out vacations. This will prevent the summer dullness from occurring.

In college, you could not get into the education degree program unless you had a 3.0 GPA or better. I commend that effort. However, that does not answer the issue of low paying jobs. Why does someone want to jump into being a teacher starting at 24K when they could go into business, law, or be a doctor at a much higher starting pay.


Thank you

Jason, I totally agree with you. This is public school where I live anyway.
Our year round school has proved itself. Yet, it started as the first in the city and the other schools would follow. Well, no one followed and there is talk that our city's year round school will not be year round much longer.

There isn't anything that you stated that I disagree with. My point wasn't that there was not more to blame--just that I fear for health care because of what government involvement has done to education. Even w/o universal healthcare our system is not so good there either. It'll keep going down the tubes if something is not done. I don't have any answers, i just see the problem from the public's eye.
My DH had surgery at Mayo last year and it was the best surgical experience he'd ever had. Things were done completely different there than here, for sure.
He's having another surgery here today and I'm sure to be comparing. His best friend is doing the surgery so at least if the experience is not too good I know someone will at least listen. I am hoping for a good one though.
 
Transparent, I have worked with multiple functional quadriplegics - many with severe spasicity and pain syndromes , with only gross motor control of upper extremities and "some" control of thumb or fingers.....and many of them can use a computer. Heck....even drive a car!

Do not say BS.

If he desired to, he could.

I have no problem with him not working with computers. I just ask that he be aware of how they impact our lives (and I think he does).

You grossly underestimate the potential of those with physical disabilities.

Again, is the cost in time worth it? The answer is no. More efficient to do what he's doing, apparently.
 
Doesn't he admit he is computer illiterate? I ahve heard him say it...on short notice this is the clip I can find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R9wnMVZE_Q

You're not serious??

I say this every time I call our IT department with a problem. Compared to many, maybe most, I am illiterate. Then again, comapred to many, I'm a computer genius.

It's all perspective.

But I suggest you libs keep beating this drum. It resonates only in your own ears.

Republicans, independents, and most democrats see it for what it is: a non issue.
 
You're not serious??

I say this every time I call our IT department with a problem. Compared to many, maybe most, I am illiterate. Then again, comapred to many, I'm a computer genius.

It's all perspective.

But I suggest you libs keep beating this drum. It resonates only in your own ears.

Republicans, independents, and most democrats see it for what it is: a non issue.

Listen, if you have actually read my other posts on this subect ?

I DO NOT CARE if he uses a computer or not. I just care that he is aware of how the computer and internet shapes this country. I have also indicated that I believe he does.



But to place this fake rage on "the libs" is a hoot. THIS THREAD was started on the false premise that Obama was making fun of McCain's POW inuries. I would like to know if you think Obama was maing fun of the POW injuries? My other point has been that if he desires to be part of the computer/internet culture there are multiple adaptive devices he can use to achieve that goal easily, But do I care if he goes on the internet? NO. But do I care that some on the right FALSELY characterize Obama as making fun of a disability yes. I believe those comments are part of the fake outrage that is rampant here.
 
I hadb't realized (until this morning) that the whole "he can't even send an e-mail" thing was supposed to be/taken as a jab at McCain's POW injuries. Just a few moments ago I heard on the news that McCain can't send e-mails because of his previous injuries. DH and I were watching tv together when it was mentioned. AT first I was shocked...then Dh looked at me very seriously and said:

"Really? Heck, even Stephen HAwking can type."
 
I hadb't realized (until this morning) that the whole "he can't even send an e-mail" thing was supposed to be/taken as a jab at McCain's POW injuries. Just a few moments ago I heard on the news that McCain can't send e-mails because of his previous injuries. DH and I were watching tv together when it was mentioned. AT first I was shocked...then Dh looked at me very seriously and said:

"Really? Heck, even Stephen HAwking can type."

Actually he can't. Not in the traditional sense.
 












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