It's Father's Day and I am TRULY BLESSED!

[Tigger&Belle]

And, as my kids turned 5 just about a week ago, I sit here and feel truly blessed. I never wanted kids at all. I hoped that my wife never became pregant before I turned 40, as I told her before I was married that if we didn't have kids by the time I was 40, I was getting snipped.

Then, at age 37 I found out my wife was pregnant. I was not happy about it for myself, but was "OK" with it because it made my wife very happy. Then she had a miscarriage, and I was incredibly relieved. At age 38, I found myself again, going to be a father, and again, I was not at all happy for myself. But I was "resigned" to the fact that I was going to be a father. So, imagine my surprise, when 3 weeks after the first ultrasound, the doctor found another baby --- I was going to be a father of TWINS!

I haven't read the replies, but I am shocked by this! Why would you agree to try and have a baby if you didn't want one. And you were "incredibly relieved" when she had a miscarriage? OMG! And then you went on to try again because you weren't yet 40? Why 40? What's so magical about that age?

I can understand being "resigned" to the fact that you were going to be a father if birth control failed and you were having an unplanned pregnancy, but to be resigned when it was planned is shocking to me.

Don't get me wrong--I'm glad that you love your daughters now and are happy that they are here. That is wonderful and there are some parents who never get to that point. But you took the gamble that you could have been one of those parents, which is frightening to me.

I'm very happy that it's turned out ok for you and I hope that they never realize how they were not wanted in the beginning by you and how relieved you were over the first pregnancy ending in miscarriage.

I hope that you had a great, enjoyable day with your daughters and that you have many more to follow!

 

[Buckalew11]

It has nothing to do with the political debate over abortion. I was not saying anything politically about abortion, so I don't appreciate your implying that I am trying to change subjects and turn this into an abortion debate. I am not, and I know very well that it is pointless to discuss one's stance on abortion on the DIS.

However, miscarriage is also known as spontaneous abortion. So for a woman to feel relief about not mothering a child by choosing to have an induced abortion is not much different from a father feeling relief over an abortion (spontaneous or induced) - especially if he and his mate weren't trying to become parents in the first place. But it seems that here on the DIS we can't allow a man to admit to any feelings other than positive ones about being or becoming a father .

I was simply saying that the feelings might be very similar for a man or a woman no matter which type of abortion it is (induced or spontaneous) if that person does not feel like they are ready to become a parent. And maybe you would also blast her, va32h, by my point was simply that if that hypothetical situation were posted by a woman on the DIS, I just don't think the overall reaction would be the same. Even though the feeling of relief felt by Papa Deuce or that hypothetical mother who had the abortion might be nearly identical. Like I said, I think there would be a lot of hugs and pixie dust.

I'm not friends with Papa Deuce, and I think he can be kind of abrasive or opinionated (sorry, Papa Deuce). Perhaps his wording could have been more tactful. I'm just attempting to see this from his perspective. But some of you are acting like he is the most horrible person ever, or using this as an opportunity to vent your feelings about him as a poster in general.

From the way it sounds, he is adjusting at parenthood better than a LOT of people. Just think of how many parents never adjust. I've seen TONS more bad parenting issues that people think are terrific (mostly women since the men are either too nice or too afraid to post anything negative about being a parent or husband) posted here on the DIS. If the fact that he has had to warm up to fatherhood is the worst parenting example you've ever read here, then count yourself lucky.

Great post. I agree with what you say. I'm not a member of PD's fan club but, my goodness, he hardly seems like a monster.

 

[va32h]

However, miscarriage is also known as spontaneous abortion. So for a woman to feel relief about not mothering a child by choosing to have an induced abortion is not much different from a father feeling relief over an abortion (spontaneous or induced) - especially if he and his mate weren't trying to become parents in the first place. But it seems that here on the DIS we can't allow a man to admit to any feelings other than positive ones about being or becoming a father

So you just used the highly inflammatory word "abortion" because it's a common synonym for miscarriage? O-kay.

FWIW, I think a woman who came on this board and posted that she was so proud of herself for finally getting around to liking her own children after five years, having never really wanted them before, I think she'd get raked over the coals.

Not that it matters, really, how we'd treat a hypothetical woman in that situation. Because it's completely irrelevant how we'd treat a female in that position. I'm looking at the usernames that have posted on this thread, and I'm not seeing the card-carrying members of the Anti-PD club. I, for one, don't think I have ever posted on one of his threads.

 

[KristaTX]

So you just used the highly inflammatory word "abortion" because it's a common synonym for miscarriage? O-kay.

No. In my first post I was speaking of induced abortion, but not in a take-sides-on-the-issue way. I was using it to discuss the emotions one might feel, whether the cause is natural or induced. I was not trying to be inflammatory at all. For future reference, would you mind telling me what non-inflammatory synonym for "abortion" I should have used?

 

[Cool-Beans]

I don't dislike Pape Deuce, nor am I a fan. But I do vote in the polls!

If he says he always loved the children, then I believe him. It just SEEMED like he didn't because he said he wasn't happy or excited, and didn't bond with them until he could feel they loved him. Maybe it was phrased poorly, maybe I read it wrong.

PD, like I said before, you won't feel that they love you all the time in the teen years like you do now. Might want to prepare yourself to love someone who thinks (and says) that they hate you.

 

[DVCLiz]

I was once married to someone who felt unsure about becoming a father - I was the one who moved that process forward, although he didn't actively disagree. It was more of a "go along to get along". He adored our babies, but later it all became just a little too much - too much responsibility, too much work, too much being tied down, etc. Now he pays sporadic child support, shows up at events where credit is due (graduations, etc.) but otherwise is too tied to chasing his own dream to provide any real financial or emotional support for his children.

I guess if I'd had the choice I'd rather have had the one who warmed slowly but was ultimately in it for the long haul than the one I did end up with (and then without.)

On the subject of children seeing things later in life, I wonder how Brooke Shield's daughter will react if and when she sees all of the press reports about how her mom suffered with PPD? When I read all of those descriptions about how she wanted to harm the baby, I thought it would be difficult to read that as an adult.

 

[miss missy]

What an honest and beautiful story Pappa! WOW! It is humbling to have kids huh! I hope you like yourself too.. cuz you got two lil pappa D's that will remind you that everything you sew comes back 10 fold LOL! Its the truth!

HAPPY DAD'S DAY!!

 

[Beth76]

On the subject of children seeing things later in life, I wonder how Brooke Shield's daughter will react if and when she sees all of the press reports about how her mom suffered with PPD? When I read all of those descriptions about how she wanted to harm the baby, I thought it would be difficult to read that as an adult.

She suffered from a medical condition and she knew her thoughts were wrong. That's why she got help and is trying to help other women by talking about it. She couldn't help those thoughts.

 

[ashjohnson80]

Imagine your spouse coming to you on your anniversary and saying:

"You know, I never wanted to get married, and I sort of hoped you would never ask me. But you did, and since you really wanted to, I went along with it.

Before we got married, when you got sick and almost died, I actually thought it would be kind of a relief if you did.

On our wedding day, a small part of me was happy, but overall, not really.

Years 1 and 2 went by, and I still wasn't all that excited. Sleepless nights, loss of free time, constant crying and minor illnesses, and it wasn't getting any better for me.

Then came year 3. Slowly but surely I was getting a little bit happier. You were more interesting, and I started to enjoy your company.

And by year 4, I really loved you!"

Is there any spouse who would be happy to hear that?

Except it's worse b/c as an adult you choose who you want to marry. Children don't get to choose their parents.

 

[JennaTX]

I read through the entire thread and I understand both sides. People who are upset because they have had miscarriages or could not have children were offended by his post, and I totally understand that.

I have two beautiful children that were planned and wanted by both of us. However, after our first child was born, my DH admitted quite a few times of feeling left out, that he was now ignored and that I did not have any time for him anymore. Heck, there were times that I felt the same way.

Yes I think that it is sad that the OP missed out on quite a few things in the first 3-4 years of his children's life, and unfortunately he can never get that time back. But if he has truly changed and now loves his children with all of his heart, I think that he probably regrets that time lost much more.

Instead of saying "You are so messed up, I hope your children never know" why not say "I am glad that you have come to love your children and are now willing to be the father that you were meant to be".

 

[DVCLiz]

She suffered from a medical condition and she knew her thoughts were wrong. That's why she got help and is trying to help other women by talking about it. She couldn't help those thoughts.

Oh, I know. Still, it would be hard to read that, wouldn't it? I would think it would be almost impossible to be able to react to that information as simply a medical condition, if you were that child. Every child wants and needs to think he or she was loved and cherished from the moment they were conceived, don't you think? And anything that disturbed that mental image would be hard to judge rationally, no matter how old you were when you saw it. At least I think it would.

I have mixed feelings about this thread, but I do think there are many, many couples out there who didn't agree equally about having children. I think a lot of dads (and some moms, too) probably had to be "talked into it". I think it's not uncommon to have two people who love each other and want to make a life together still have to negotiate issues like children.

 

[Mom2Angels]

I read through the entire thread and I understand both sides. People who are upset because they have had miscarriages or could not have children were offended by his post, and I totally understand that.


I have had a miscarriage and lost two boys who were born prematurely and was not offended at all. At lease he is man enough to admit how he felt and he has come around, he never said he didn't love or like his children. I know there are plenty of other men and women who have felt the same way and some never come to relalize how their children can enrich their lives.

Debbie

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

Oh wow, this thread has really become a typical dis-bash hasn’t it? I’ve gotta say that I’m pretty neutral when it comes to the OP. But I didn’t see his post as being quite as bad as some of you saw it. Some people do not want kids and that doesn’t make them bad. I feel that some of the blame must go to his wife because she knew that he didn’t want kids before they were married. IMHO, it isn’t right to force somebody who doesn’t wish to have kids to start a family. It’s a recipe for disaster. This could have had a FAR worse ending. It could have ended with PD giving up when the twins were one year old and running out on his family like so many millions of fathers do. But no, he stuck it out and learned to be a good father even though this was not the route he wanted to go in his life.


I suspect that PD didn’t do a very good job of expressing exactly what he meant when talking about his feelings about his newborn daughters. I feel reasonably sure that he loved them from day one. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t be so crazy about them now. Moreover, if he didn’t love them, he wouldn’t have been such a nurturing parent to them when they were small. I think it took a while for him to learn to like them in addition to loving them. And I think that is very normal. You grow to like somebody as you get to know a person’s personality and newborn babies, while they do have personalities, they aren’t very developed. I suspect what PD is trying to say is that as the children grew and developed their own personalities, he developed an emotion far more important than the obligatory love that parents feel for their children; he came to like them for the people they are. And I think he just wanted to share that exhilarating feeling with everybody on father's day. I could be totally wrong about all this, but that is how I read his post.


Some people aren’t big baby lovers at all. I loved my daughter from day one, but I enjoyed her more as she got older. I found being a parent to a baby to be very scary because I was always afraid that something was wrong with her and she couldn’t tell me! As she became a toddler and started to be able to express her feelings and needs, I found her to be more enjoyable because I wasn’t afraid for her well-being all the time. I loved my child when she was an infant too, but I was able to lighten up and enjoy motherhood more as she got older. Some people are just the opposite; some people love having infants more than toddlers. Some people prefer the teenage years. I personally love having a 15 year old daughter but I know a lot of people who cringe at the thought of having teenagers. I have seen numerous threads on this board where people have complained fiercely about their teenage children and have even expressed the need to distance themselves from their kids. Nobody ever says anything about that and in fact most people express support and understanding. Well, for all we know, PD will be the type of person who will have amazing patience with that difficult age but just found having two newborns to be very difficult. Everybody is different and I just can’t say as I see that PD was saying he didn’t love his children from day one; just that he relates better to them now that they are older. I don’t think PD is all that great in expressing himself and I can see how his post came off as shocking to some people, but I think if you really try to look beneath the surface it’s more than obvious that he is a devoted father. This man starts threads about his girls at least once a week. Do you think he would be so “in” to them if he didn’t really love them?


Given the number of fathers out there who never bother to see or support their children, I think it’s a bit harsh to be so hard on somebody who admits to coming around.

 

[Ub_Iwerks]

I have had a miscarriage and lost two boys who were born prematurely and was not offended at all. At lease he is man enough to admit how he felt and he has come around, he never said he didn't love or like his children. I know there are plenty of other men and women who have felt the same way and some never come to relalize how their children can enrich their lives.

Debbie

I have also had miscarriages. While I'm personally not offended by his comment of "relief," it made me feel so sorry for his wife. If my husband had ever expressed that he was relieved by my miscarriages, I don't think I would ever be able to get over it. That would be hurt so deep it could destroy our marriage and any trust that existed.

I also agree that if a woman were to post not enjoying her chidren until the age of 3, the people on this board would rip her to shreds.

 

[KristaTX]

I also agree that if a woman were to post not enjoying her chidren until the age of 3, the people on this board would rip her to shreds.

I agree on that part, even though I may not have said that clearly. It might not have sounded like it, but I was talking more about the miscarriage part in my previous posts than about the twins (although I can kind of understand that, too, and think he just expressed his feelings somewhat poorly - lots of people think their kids are a lot more fun and enjoyable as they get older).

I just got the feeling that some people were calling him a bad person since he admitted to having feelings of relief about the miscarriage (since he didn't want children at all). But if a woman had an abortion earlier in her life and admitted to feeling some relief from that, she wouldn't have been treated the same way by a lot of people and would have been given hugs. I just don't see a huge difference in the sense of relief, and was pointing out the double standard that seems to exist for men and women.

I have PM'd with him, and I think what happened was that PD did not initially express that his feelings were mixed, and that he felt a lot of sadness, but particularly for his wife's loss. Sorry, PD, if that is not the case and I have mis-spoken.

Whatever the situation, I hope everyone's goal here is to have compassion for anyone, and to at least try to see things from their point of view. So many people on the DIS get blasted that I tend to get defensive when I see someone berated when there is obviously more to the story than what has been posted.

 

[JimboInLimbo]

I am truely amazed at what I'm reading here. It has taken me all morning to read all this. What a mess.
I for one do not read anything all that bad in the original post. As a few other people here have pointed out, perhaps a poor choice of words, but the sentiment overall is that of a deep love for his children.
I know I've only been active on here for a very short time, but this is what I've noticed.
A woman posts that she will not give her son a graduation party and everyone here tears her to shreds that she should release the past and focus on the present and the accomplishments that he's made.
This man posts that while he didn't think he wanted children, he has in his heart moved so far past that and truely loves being a father, and you all rip him to shreds because of his past and you can't see the present.
Several have made nasty comments about how he spent Fathers Day on the computer. Correct me if I"m wrong, but the only way you know that is because you too were on the computer. Double standard?
Perhaps if he had gotten on here and said he would rather spend his day surrounded by his stuffed animals because they were his mommies and threatened to report everyone who didn't agree with him, everyone here would have gathered into their protective arms and coddled him.
I just don't get it. A lot of you have the play ground bully mentality that is scary. It is more than evident the posters you like and the ones you don't like.
And before making wild judgements against others, I've always been told it's best to sweep around your own front door before complaining about the mess around someone elses.
Hope all the fathers here had as wonderful a Fathers Day as I did.

 

[lucyblondecat]

Puh-leeze! This community board seems less and less like a community every day. I simply cannot believe people are making the OP's post out to be malicious. I read his first post as an honest account of a man who had serious doubts about having children but through the love of his children, came around to realizing how blessed he is. I can't believe anyone could read anything more into it than that.

Happy belated father's day Papa Deuce. Thanks for your upfront and honest account of how it came to be you fell in love with your twins. Reality is not the DIS boards, where every parent is perfect, and your story is not all that uncommon. And unfortunately what is more common is some men (and women) never come around to loving their children. I'm so glad you did.

 

[kellyann]

So, should we all pat you on the back because you "evolved"? If you think it was tough when they were babies, wait until they are teenagers.

As for the miscarriage comment, when I had my miscarriage if my husband had ever felt relieved, I would have shown him the door. You were obviously actively trying to get pregnant, so you knew the consequences.

 

[cardaway]

So, should we all pat you on the back because you "evolved"? If you think it was tough when they were babies, wait until they are teenagers.

That's the other part that is really disturbing. How long before the OP reverts back to the previous way of thinking? Certainly possible if one was to check out the history of selfish posts before this thread. Look out when things get tough again.

 

[lyeag]

I am truely amazed at what I'm reading here. It has taken me all morning to read all this. What a mess.
I for one do not read anything all that bad in the original post. As a few other people here have pointed out, perhaps a poor choice of words, but the sentiment overall is that of a deep love for his children.
I know I've only been active on here for a very short time, but this is what I've noticed.
A woman posts that she will not give her son a graduation party and everyone here tears her to shreds that she should release the past and focus on the present and the accomplishments that he's made.
This man posts that while he didn't think he wanted children, he has in his heart moved so far past that and truely loves being a father, and you all rip him to shreds because of his past and you can't see the present.
Several have made nasty comments about how he spent Fathers Day on the computer. Correct me if I"m wrong, but the only way you know that is because you too were on the computer. Double standard?
Perhaps if he had gotten on here and said he would rather spend his day surrounded by his stuffed animals because they were his mommies and threatened to report everyone who didn't agree with him, everyone here would have gathered into their protective arms and coddled him.
I just don't get it. A lot of you have the play ground bully mentality that is scary. It is more than evident the posters you like and the ones you don't like.
And before making wild judgements against others, I've always been told it's best to sweep around your own front door before complaining about the mess around someone elses.
Hope all the fathers here had as wonderful a Fathers Day as I did.

EXCELLENT POST I also hope all the Dis fathers had a wonderful day yesterday.