Is this school "punishment" acceptable?

[jodifla]

Telling of what?

A 5 year old *will* feel shamed when they break a rule and the teacher calls them on it. Period. If you believe in any basis of discipline you will know or have heard that children require boundaries. They need to know their limits. Talking out of turn is overstepping one of those limits. Teacher puts name on board, ALL the kids see child's name go on board, spotlight is on child for 2 seconds, she's embarrassed. Depending on the sensitivity of the child, the embarrassment lasts for a minute or it can last for a day. This is not abusive or demeaning. It is discipline.

When I go to a store and my child starts acting up and I correct him verbally, in the store aisle, in front of the 5 other people, he gets embarrassed. Is that wrong also?

Teacher puts name on board, where it remains. It's not a five-second thing. That would be a verbal reminder not to talk.

 

[Bob Slydell]

So, what's the point of the blackboard then?

For the teacher's reminder -- they've got a lot more going on during a day than a 5 year old.

 

[Christine]

Teacher puts name on board, where it remains. It's not a five-second thing. That would be a verbal reminder not to talk.

What I meant was that the actual act of writing on the board took 5 seconds--that's where MOST of the attention was drawn to the child. After that, her name is up there with the others. I guess if she stares at it all day and cringes than I would have to agree with the other poster who said that therapy might be in order. That's a bit much.

 

[In a hurry]

Teacher puts name on board, where it remains. It's not a five-second thing. That would be a verbal reminder not to talk.

Verbal reminders are a continual disruption. A blackboard name, apple, stick or whatever is a VISUAL reminder. I don't have to keep reminding the student to respect others and stop talking out of turn. 20 kids, 5 reminders for each of 6 classes a day. Instead they decide they do not like their name on the board, learn respect for others, and we have a calm, peaceful learning environment.

 

[luvmydogs]

Am I the only person here who thinks that it is not my nor a teacher's primary job to build my ds's self-esteem? I expect him to work hard in school, behave appropriately and respectfully and exhibit good citizenship--all done within the parameters of our parental love and guidance and nuturance. All these things reap their own intrinsic rewards and build strong character and self-esteem--which is very difficult to be broken down by the words or actions of others. Does he fail at times? Absolutely--and when it's appropriate for him to be disciplined, I do so; and I expect his teachers/coaches, etc. to do the same. Do I want him to feel some measure of shame when he's broken a rule? Of course I do--it means his conscience is working, and hopefully he'll learn from it and the behavior won't be repeated.

He's ten now, but we have always made it clear that we expect a certain measure of proper behavior from the time he was young--and more often than not he's lived up to them. I think at times we don't give our kids enough credit for their ability to understand the rules and abide by them--and to have respect for the authority figures that implement them. Instead we rationalize and look for ways to excuse inapproriate behavior (one of the best I ever heard as a preschool teacher--Little Johnny hits other children at school because we expect the children to use indoor voices inside the classroom, therefore "stifling his spirit.") I don't believe that you, the OP, are anywhere near this sort of rationalization and excuse-making; but do agree that this thread has drifted into drama and hyperbole (and c'mon, we just had to know it would! ).

Bottom line IMHO--the teacher should not have to take the time to continuosly stop and start her lessons over and over again to verbally remind a child to behave. The rules are set, the children know them--your name goes up on the board when you break them. A child who is traumatized by a visual reminder to behave, in all sincerity, needs help to get past this--the real world is not nearly as innocuous.

"Prepare your child for the path; not the path for your child."

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Am I the only person here who thinks that it is not my nor a teacher's primary job to build my ds's self-esteem? I expect him to work hard in school, behave appropriately and respectfully and exhibit good citizenship--all done within the parameters of our parental love and guidance and nuturance.

I believe that it is the job of the Teacher to help raise an educationally and socially sound child.

Most child development experets will tell you that an average child begins to development a concept of the words yes and no at around age 18 months. Usually, by age 3 and into age 4, they develop the ability to understand simple rules and the concept of "consequences" from failure to follow the rules. By 5 years old in the average child, these should be firmly in place.

Children THRIVE in an enviornment where there is a clear concept of rules and the difference between an adult vs a child. It makes them feel secure, happy, and well protected to know that they are surrounded by boundries.

To suggest that this system would not be appropriate until late elementary years is simply ludicrous IMHO. There is ample evidence that suggests MAJOR portions of our personalities have been developed by ages 5 or 6. Allowing a 5 year old to misbehave without clearly defined punishment is a terrible idea. In short, it is how you raise a BRATTY self-centered kid.

Having a short and gentle reminder to the student and in front of the rest of the class serves not only to set boundries for the particular student who is chatting at the moment, it reinforces the concept for everybody in the class. Young children like to be in classrooms that are well run - it makes them feel good.

I have yet to see anybody suggest a mechanism for a teacher to use that would apply a reminder to the child without the rest of the class viewing. Even if the teacher STOPS the lesson and takes the child out into the hall for a discussion -- do you think the other kids wouldn't notice and wouldn't know "Mary didn't follow the rules and now she's in trouble?"

 

[Wishing on a star]

I guess if she stares at it all day and cringes than I would have to agree with the other poster who said that therapy might be in order. That's a bit much.

We do not know if the OP's child is indeed still upset about this. But, I would have to say that, yes, to a point, I agree. Simply having ones name written on the board should not cause such stress and upset!!! That is why, if this child IS indeed upset, I would have to assume that there might be more to this.

Because, to answer the OP's original question... Getting names written on the board is not an excessive punishment!!! It is an effective tool for this age of children. Every class that my DS has been in has had "No speaking out without raising your hand" as the number one class rule. This IS completely necessary to control noise and chaos in a classroom full of little kids!

To the OP, as yet another poster has mentioned, the whole bit with kids coming home talking about 'names on the blackboard' is completely normal!! (doesn't necessarily mean that the kids are traumatized) What I would consider abnormal would be if my son came home talking about how he learned to add two digit numbers, or how to use a silent-e.

 

[Christine]

We do not know if the OP's child is indeed still upset about this. But, I would have to say that, yes, to a point, I agree. Simply having ones name written on the board should not cause such stress and upset!!! That is why, if this child IS indeed upset, I would have to assume that there might be more to this.

I think somewhere along the line in this thread, the OP did come back and I think her DD was doing fine today.

I suspect that the mom had more of a problem witnessing her child's hurt than the child had with her name getting on the board. None of us like to see our kids be embarrassed but I guess you have to figure out how not to let it get to you.

 

[Wishing on a star]

telling a 5-year-old should feel "ashamed" when she forgets to raise her hand in class?

Given the comments that the OP has made concerning this teachers style and methods.... This is indeed VALID point. Apparantly this teacher has no problems yelling at and belittling the children. I would be afraid that this might go beyond simply pausing and turning and writing the name on the blackboard. This would concern me!

 

[Wishing on a star]

I suspect that the mom had more of a problem witnessing her child's hurt than the child had with her name getting on the board. None of us like to see our kids be embarrassed but I guess you have to figure out how not to let it get to you.

So True!!!!

And, I think that the OP just needed to realize that most ALL teachers do have some similar type of system. It is not necessarily 'bad'.

It is HOW the system is used that makes all difference.

 

[jodifla]

So True!!!!

And, I think that the OP just needed to realize that most ALL teachers do have some similar type of system. It is not necessarily 'bad'.

It is HOW the system is used that makes all difference.

I agree with the points you are making. There does seem to be an underlying issue here. This is late in the year to start implementing this system.

While some folks would claim that I want no discipline in the class, what I actually want is developmentally appropriate discipline. The name on the board technique is pretty harsh for a 5 year old, IMO. It certainly wasn't done in my kindergarten...and we weren't a bunch of wild, out of control sociopaths, either.

 

[BuckNaked]

While some folks would claim that I want no discipline in the class, what I actually want is developmentally appropriate discipline.

Then by all means, please give us an example of developmentally appropriate discipline for 5 year olds that doesn't involve others knowing that they were disciplined. And while you're at it, please explain what is "developmentally inappropriate" about writing a child's name on the blackboard.

 

[DisneyLovingMama]

OP here - Had a conference with the teacher today. Before we even started, she told me that she knew DD was upset on Monday, and that she has received feedback from several parents about the name on the board method, which had a one strike and you're out policy (and was only implemented in January, with no communication to parents about it).

As a result of the feedback, she will be implementing a green, yellow, red system, so the children have a warning in the future. In addition, she created a merit chart for the children, so they can earn prizes for their good behavior and/or get their name back to green.

I explained that I supported her need for discipline and order, but didn't feel the child's name should be on the board AFTER school ended, for other parents to see. She agreed, and even said that on Monday, one of the parents was there right at 3:00 and saw DD's name on the board. The parent then commented to DD about how disappointed I was going to be in her and that she (the parent) was shocked DD was bad that day. The teacher intervened and said that she was not going to be leaving names or colors up in the future. But, now I know why DD was so upset on Monday.

She also thanked me for coming to her (and reading to the class) since she can only "improve her classroom" by getting feedback. This is her first year teaching 5-year olds, and she admits it has taken her a while to get adjusted.

While I was reading, she did seem much calmer than in the past, and the children seemed slightly better behaved. Slightly.

 

[BuckNaked]

While I was reading, she did seem much calmer than in the past, and the children seemed slightly better behaved. Slightly.

Hmmm...so you complained that the discipline was too harsh, yet you say that there is only a slight improvement in the children's behavior. It must not have been nearly as harsh as you thought, since it apparently had little effect.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

***edited to ask: Are you going to also go complain to the parent that said something to your DD? It seems that those comments upset her much more than the teacher did by simply trying to do her job.

 

[Bob Slydell]

I explained that I supported her need for discipline and order, but didn't feel the child's name should be on the board AFTER school ended, for other parents to see. She agreed, and even said that on Monday, one of the parents was there right at 3:00 and saw DD's name on the board. The parent then commented to DD about how disappointed I was going to be in her and that she (the parent) was shocked DD was bad that day. The teacher intervened and said that she was not going to be leaving names or colors up in the future. But, now I know why DD was so upset on Monday.

I think you misdirected your anger, then -- I'd be pissed at the other child's parent who felt the need to make commentary to your DD about what that parent thought you would feel when you saw her name on the board.

I can understand more fully why your DD was upset -- it wasn't about the name on the board. It was about a busybody parent who needs to keep his/her nose out of other kids businesses.

 

[In a hurry]

Well, there you go. It wasn't having her name on the board that shamed your child, it was a busybody parent. The process wasn't the problem, so it seems. The thing is that kids will still know red, yellow and green. It is just a bit more busy work for the teacher. Kids shouldn't, IMO, be given prizes for behaving. Behaving should have intrinsic worth, even for 5 year olds.

 

[becka]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

At this point I would not mind my kids having that teacher but I would not want my child in that class with the other kids. If all of those parents have such an issue with a discipline technique like writing the name on the board I can't imagine how delightful all of the kids must be. I bet every one of them is a perfectly gifted little angel destined for a bright Ivy League future if only teachers would stop demeaning and humiliating their babies by trying to make them follow rules.

 

[BuckNaked]

The thing is that kids will still know red, yellow and green. It is just a bit more busy work for the teacher.

Yep.

Kids shouldn't, IMO, be given prizes for behaving. Behaving should have intrinsic worth, even for 5 year olds.

Again, I agree.

 

[BuckNaked]

At this point I would not mind my kids having that teacher but I would not want my child in that class with the other kids. If all of those parents have such an issue with a discipline technique like writing the name on the board I can't imagine how delightful all of the kids must be. I bet every one of them is a perfectly gifted little angel destined for a bright Ivy League future if only teachers would stop demeaning and humiliating their babies by trying to make them follow rules.

Well said!

 

[Mariposa]

Hmmm...so you complained that the discipline was too harsh, yet you say that there is only a slight improvement in the children's behavior. It must not have been nearly as harsh as you thought, since it apparently had little effect.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

***edited to ask: Are you going to also go complain to the parent that said something to your DD? It seems that those comments upset her much more than the teacher did by simply trying to do her job.

Actually, I would argue that the teacher's inability to stick with ANY disciplinary system (remember, the name thing only started in January and she's scrapping it already) probably has more to do with her lack of control in the classroom than anything else. IMHO, consistency is often the most weighted factor in determining success with any disciplinary program.

Also, I've found children do not necessarily respond in logical ways to being 'harshly' punished (not that I'm saying the name on the board thing was harsh punishment or not- I'd have to see how it was implemented before commenting). True, some children 'fall in line' and will do anything to avoid the punishment; however, some will act out in even more disruptive or destructive ways.

Finally, I'd hope that the OP has no intention of confronting the parent that spoke to her child, as it likely would do no good. Clearly, the parent in question feels as though it is his/her place to shame someone else's child and would most likely just defend their actions to the OP. Also, the teacher spoke to the parent in question about their comment to the child. I would think the best coarse of action would be to reassure the child that you are not disappointed in them, but that you do expect their behavior to remain good. Which I believe is exactly what the OP has done?

All of this is just my opinion, though.