Is the economy really that bad?

[LotsOfQuestions]

The two "great economists" on this thread are really insulting Americans who, through absolutely no fault of their own, are in a financial mess. We're lucky b/c we have savings, health insurance and disability insurance and could weather a lot of storms and help our children do the same. This is the first time we've ever been even worried finanically -- it's bad. But we're worried about retirement, not putting food on the table. A lot of Americans aren't so lucky.

Both of my parents used to work in plants in North Carolina. Of course, they made barely above minimum and could BUY health insurance for a week's pay. They couldn't do it now, though, even if they weren't in their 70s b/c those plants are long gone. Couldn't have been the economy,though.

Although we are not out on the streets and still living comfortably, as I mentioned earlier, we are not as well off as we were 8 years ago.

8 years ago we had great health benefits. With a child with significant special needs, that was always one of the reasons DH stayed with his company. Lately, our deductibles have gone way, benefits cut and more and more of the medical costs are coming out of our own pocket. This is eating into our savings.

I guess having a kid with significant medical problems is our fault.

Our 401K and other retirement accounts have lost 30 - 50% of their value in the past few years. Luckily we are still about 20 years away from retirement and hope that they will recover. But now we are looking at recovery and not significant growth.

Guess controlling the stock market and investment accounts is our fault.

DH's salary has been frozen for the past 18 months. Gas has doubled in the past year, food is rising, medical costs are rising.

Guess controlling the company's bottom line is our fault and we can unfreeze the paycheck and demand cost of living increases.

We are thankful that DH still has a job and the department he oversees is pretty stable. But I feel for the plant workers because layoffs have been huge this past year.

Guess it is all their fault that they are losing their jobs due to the poor economy and that the company has to cut expenses to even survive.

Whether you are personally responsible for your demise (ie credit card debt and over extension on a mortgage), or not (more people than not), I don't know of a single person who hasn't seen some effect of the economy on their lifestyles.

Just because you don't see it and are fortunate to still be employed in an industry where benefits and salaries are good, that doesn't mean that everybody is a loser spender who overextended themselves. Tell that to the 5,000 people that lost their jobs this year in DH's plants.

This head in sand "I am ok, so everybody in trouble is a loser and brought it on themselves" is not only a head-in-the-sand view of life, but also a self-serving, arrogant and egotistic view of life.

 

[wall*e2008]

I work for a large insurance conglomerate, we also have a division that does the same kind of financial work as the late Bear Stearns (deceased March 2008) and the ailing Lehman Brothers (about to be bailed out by the government). We don't have the same headache, because the insurance side of the business is very strong even in this soft market.

still, the company reported billions in unrealized losses these past two quarters.

as a stockholder I have a few "unrealized losses" as well. I've been buying stock in the company through an employee incentive program. in January the stock was worth $50 per share. Today it closed at about $13 per share. that stick is part of my retirement package, so a devaluation reprsents a significant reduction in my retirement savings. thank goodness I am a long way from retirement age.

Not that this will help you but never buy your employers stock and hold it for your retirement. If your company goes under then you lose your job, the company retirement and your personal retirement savings.

If they sell it to you at a discount then buy as much as you can or they allow and sell it at soon as you get it. This if like free income from the company without risking your future. Then take the net (since you will pay taxes on the money) and diversify your portfolio.

 

[luvmy3]

You and the OP might not be seeing a problem, but the majority of people are, and when most of the respondents say there is a problem, but the OP still doesn't want to see it, then, yeah, someone needs to point that out!

I don't think that the OP is denial. Nationally, the economy is bad, no one is denying that, but there are certain parts of the country where people are not being effected by it as much as others. I think the OP (and myself) are just trying to point that out.

 

[Pin Wizard]

This is actually a good thing, especially for those in lower income brackets. Wal-Mart increases their purchasing power, especially for the every day items that make up a large part of the household budget.

The economy definitely has some problems. And it's hard to know if the worst is behind us yet.

But the U.S. economy is incredibly diverse - even within some of the sectors that are having a hard time, like the housing market, the problems aren't occuring everywhere, but are confined to a handful of states.

I guess Florida and Virginia would be on the list. I've talked with someone in an attorney's office in FL who mentioned house prices, property taxes, etc. being out of reach. And here in VA, there are plenty of homes for rent in our development because they aren't selling. My next door neighbor included.

 

[tink_n_pooh]

I guess we are just very lucky that around here things are not as bad as they are elsewhere. We are very busy at work and looking for people to work but we can't find anyone that actually wants to work. We were just talking about this yesterday at work - since there are so many unemployed people why can't we find them? I work in a business-to-business industry and we have had one client that although they are still in business they are not paying their bills because of bad times (for what its worth they are a Title Agency)

The stores are packed and forget trying to go out to eat on a weekend. I picked up food last night from our local pizza place because they were so busy they forgot to give DH half of the food when he originally picked it up, I've never seen so many people behind their counter.

 

[wall*e2008]

Same here.

People are losing their houses left and right and stores are closing at an incredible rate (big chains and Mom and Pop stores).

Inflation is the highest it's been in almost 20 years, gas prices are at record highs, my DH's 401K is in the toilet (he's lost hundreds of thousands of dollars out of it in the last two years), the housing market is dead (around here, anyway), and the value of the dollar is horrible when compared to other world currency.

Yeah, I'd say that doesn't look so rosy.

The problem with a statement like this is what type of investments was he in and how much of that growth was his actual contributions.

If I invested $50K in a extremely high risk investment and it increased to $500K in 5 years and then lost $200K in the next two year then the investment is still up by $250K or 5x in just 7 years.

If I invested $200K and it rose to $300K in 5 years (moderate growth) and then plummeted $200K then I would have lost 50% of my investment.

BTW my retirements have held steady for the past year. I made some alterations when I saw the economy in trouble and reduced my investment risks. It sure has paid off for us. Soon I will move the money around again and hope it goes up again.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Yes, the economy is that bad. But the people who really should be answering this question about the economy aren't on the internet to talk to you about it. They can't afford it. They're doing the responsible thing and cutting way back on luxuries which includes internet service.

When those of us who can afford the internet tell of all the people we know who've been affected by this bad economy, the answer we get from the clueless is that all those people in dire straights must be irresponsible. Like it's their fault their jobs were shipped overseas, or that they haven't had a raise in pay in five years, or that their companies (now including banking institutions) had to close their doors because of a dwindling economy.

The question will be answered in November. People who still have homes (but not much else) will vote. Only then will things start to turn around and we can once again have some hope for the future.

 

[mickey2000]

 

[mickey2000]

Yes, the economy is that bad. But the people who really should be answering this question about the economy aren't on the internet to talk to you about it. They can't afford it. They're doing the responsible thing and cutting way back on luxuries which includes internet service.

When those of us who can afford the internet tell of all the people we know who've been affected by this bad economy, the answer we get from the clueless is that all those people in dire straights must be irresponsible. Like it's their fault their jobs were shipped overseas, or that they haven't had a raise in pay in five years, or that their companies (now including banking institutions) had to close their doors because of a dwindling economy.

The question will be answered in November. People who still have homes (but not much else) will vote. Only then will things start to turn around and we can once again have some hope for the future.

Wow what a great answer !!!!

 

[Pin Wizard]

I guess the quesiton I want to ask is, everyone saying its so bad. Are you litereally close to be living out on the street? Do you have absolutely no money and no job and are really living in a very tough time?

Whenever I go to the stores, they are packed. you can't even get a seat in a resturant most of the time, and never get on on the weekends around here because they are so jam packed. The malls are jam packed especially on the weekends.

I guess I just don't understand it too much, people are spending money, going out to eat still traveling, and yet everyone is saying how hard the times are. Is it that people have to sacrafice a little bit and are used to such lavish lifestles that they thing all the worst now?

I'm sure the people you are seeing crowding the malls and restaurants must be the ones not feeling the crunch...just like you. We don't go out to restaurants very often. Not even once a month. We don't go to the mall either. I've told DS that a store being at the mall just increases the price passed on to us. There are other stores where we can find similar items.

My company has cut all OT out for employees other than those in direct patient care. I haven't worked OT in months. That's a huge cut in the $$ coming into this house, especially being a single income household. At this point I thank the powers that be that I'm still working 40 hours a week. You better believe I worry about jobs being eliminated.

Traveling? No such thing here. Our last vacation was in 2003. That trip was from FL to VA. That's a "vacation" to us. I haven't been on an airplane in 14 years. We occasionally would drive up to 100 miles one way on weekends just for a change of scenery. Have cut that out with the price of gas.

Yeah...things pretty much stink all around!

 

[luvmy3]

When those of us who can afford the internet tell of all the people we know who've been affected by this bad economy, the answer we get from the clueless is that all those people in dire straights must be irresponsible. Like it's their fault their jobs were shipped overseas, or that they haven't had a raise in pay in five years, or that their companies (now including banking institutions) had to close their doors because of a dwindling economy.

If you don't prepare for the what ifs, then yes in a way you are being irresponsible. It doesn't matter who is in office, the economy will have its ups and downs. We are supposed to be prepared for those downs so that we don't end up losing our homes.
I'm not clueless, I know that people are struggling because of no fault of their own, but I would bet that for every one of those people, there is one who is responsible for it themselves.

 

[mrsv98]

The majority of people feeling the pain is their own fault. The majority of foreclosures in the country right now are peoples own fault. Greed.

If it's not their fault, whose is it?

Perhaps the most narrow minded and smug post of the day.....

There are so many variables to economic difficulty and I can gaurantee you the majority of them is not greed. Medical bills, job loss, fewer opportunites to find a job, unexected bills, unbelievably high gas and food prices...

Do some people suffer because of their own greed? of course, but to say the majority of people made their own mess is just foolish and short-sighted.

 

[Carly_Roach]

If you don't prepare for the what ifs, then yes in a way you are being irresponsible. It doesn't matter who is in office, the economy will have its ups and downs. We are supposed to be prepared for those downs so that we don't end up losing our homes.
I'm not clueless, I know that people are struggling because of no fault of their own, but I would bet that for every one of those people, there is one who is responsible for it themselves.

After 9/11/2001, Americans were told to spend money and shop to prove that the terrorists wouldn't "win". In 2008, Americans are now being told that it's their own fault that the economy is bad, debt (both personal and government) is at an all time high, and foreclosures and bank failures are rising.

You say for every one person who's struggling through no fault of their own, there's one who's struggling because of their own fault. Fine. That doesn't mask the fact that the people who are struggling through no fault of their own number in the millions.

 

[Disney Doll]

Funny question. We needed a laugh tonight.

I always wonder why some folks feel the need to give a ridiculous or sarcastic answer on threads where the person is trying to start a discussion or exchange of ideas.

Really, it's not helpful to the process of discussion.

 

[duckfan78]

You are really young and inexperienced in life, aren't you?

Good luck

Listen, don't badger me for starting a thread about the economy. And don't ever call me inexperienced. You don't know me, and personally I don't want to know you. I rather not associate with someone who has your type of attitude.

 

[luvmy3]

After 9/11/2001, Americans were told to spend money and shop to prove that the terrorists wouldn't "win". In 2008, Americans are now being told that it's their own fault that the economy is bad, debt (both personal and government) is at an all time high, and foreclosures and bank failures are rising.

You say for every one person who's struggling through no fault of their own, there's one who's struggling because of their own fault. Fine. That doesn't mask the fact that the people who are struggling through no fault of their own number in the millions.

Where did I say it was their fault the economy is bad? I said its their fault for not preparing for a bad economy. Its their fault for making financial decisions without considering the "what ifs".
Just because there are many that are struggling through no fault of there own, it doesn't change the fact that there are many struggling because they themselves are at fault.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Not that this will help you but never buy your employers stock and hold it for your retirement. If your company goes under then you lose your job, the company retirement and your personal retirement savings.

If they sell it to you at a discount then buy as much as you can or they allow and sell it at soon as you get it. This if like free income from the company without risking your future. Then take the net (since you will pay taxes on the money) and diversify your portfolio.

I probably should have dumped Tenet long ago. But it started sinking not long after I bought it! Who would have thought it would be completely down the tubes. (And I'm REALLY sorry to see Jeb Bush working for them.)

OTOH, DH's company was great. I still have that stock, and thank goodness I do! Just held onto it for years with nothing special happening. Then a couple years ago it split 5 ways! Wooo hooo!! That is something I'll hang onto a long time. And DH didn't contribute even one cent to the stock. It was given to employees.

 

[Kathi OD]

Listen, don't badger me for starting a thread about the economy. And don't ever call me inexperienced. You don't know me, and personally I don't want to know you. I rather not associate with someone who has your type of attitude.

Pot meet kettle!

 

[Carly_Roach]

Listen, don't badger me for starting a thread about the economy. And don't ever call me inexperienced. You don't know me, and personally I don't want to know you. I rather not associate with someone who has your type of attitude.

You stood in a room full of starving people and said, "Listen, I just had steak, a baked potato and chocolate mousse for dessert for lunch and I'm not all that hungry right now. Being hungry isn't really all that bad, is it?" and then got miffed when all the starving people said (as politely as possible) "Yes. Being hungry IS all that bad" instead of choking the life out of you.

I don't know how inexperienced you are, but the word naive definitely comes to mind. Don't feel bad; there are many more like you out there. They had a convention a week or so ago. You just happen to be surrounded by the same people in the same situation all day so you think everything is swell for the country because everything is going so well for you.

 

[wall*e2008]

I probably should have dumped Tenet long ago. But it started sinking not long after I bought it! Who would have thought it would be completely down the tubes. (And I'm REALLY sorry to see Jeb Bush working for them.)

OTOH, DH's company was great. I still have that stock, and thank goodness I do! Just held onto it for years with nothing special happening. Then a couple years ago it split 5 ways! Wooo hooo!! That is something I'll hang onto a long time. And DH didn't contribute even one cent to the stock. It was given to employees.

This is a different case and I would probably have kept that one. I am so glad it is doing so well.

I was referring to your own money that you are saving for your retirement.