Is it weird my son wants to do BBB as a princess?

[Dr. M]

I don't find it odd that your young son would want to dress as a princess. What I would find odd is if you let your son do so.

Exactly. Whether or not people admit it, there are societal norms engrained in most of us. For example, most people who consider themselves "open minded" probably would not want their surgeon or their dentist or their lawyer to have multiple facial piercings, covered in tattoos from head to toe, or, if they are male, wearing a lacy blouse and skirt. If your loved one needed a life saving surgery, would you pick the surgeon who is clean-cut and dresses conservatively, or would you pick the one with a mohawk and multiple facial piercings? I know that's off topic when it comes to dressing a 4 year old like a girl, but I just wanted to demonstrate that a majority of people subscribe to societal norms. That IS why its the "norm".

Dressing a four year old as Cinderella won't scar him for life, but isn't it our jobs as parents to help our children make good choices?

I have to agree with this post 100%.

I do understand the "he's at Disney, what does it matter?" train of thought. I likewise understand the "kids don't care, why should adults?" train of thought.

Note that DS4 and DS2 both play with a baby doll that we purchased to help DS4 understand a little about having a new baby in the house - and I'm perfectly fine with that. Our little boys like to grab mommy's blush brush and put some on when she puts on her makeup. Meh, no big deal. In short, I don't have some sort of homophobic agenda, here.

But the thing is, a boy in a princess dress, out in public, will almost certainly be made fun of - or at least pointed out multiple times. To me, it's your job as a parent to help guide a child to make the correct choices, even overruling the child if he insists on bad choices. If he chooses to eat nothing but candy, is it not your duty to say no to that?

Aside from the extreme utopian views that "we are all the same, man... gender roles are just invented by society anyway... fight the power, man!", the fact is that gender roles do exist in our society. Boys don't wear dresses in public. Women do not run around topless in public. Discussion on the fairness of these restrictions belongs in a classroom or an internet message board.

If he gets the BBB makeover in the Cinderella dress, you'll take pictures. 99.9% of boys will be mortified by these pictures later on (probably sooner than you'd believe), and most of them will resent a mother who allowed them to make the choice. I disagree with the posters who take the "your son will only remember that you have always supported him" nonsense - what he will remember is that you allowed him to make an embarassing choice.

Children need boundaries, and it's up to the parent to provide these. No, I'm not saying that you will scar your son for life if he wears the dress; it probably won't be that huge of a deal. If you tell him no, he'll be mad at you for a bit. He'll get over it quickly - he's four. If you let him, he may well have his day ruined by the comments of others - and this hurt will linger much longer than the hurt of you saying no. If you let him, he will almost certainly be embarassed later, and may resent you for it - I can guarantee that these feelings will last longer, as they will come from an older child.

I know that many are advocating this as some sort of social protest, but I don't see the real benefit aside from being able to show how very open minded you really are.


</soapbox>

Great post

Except that he MIGHT be standing with his little brother. The differences in clothing design are more reflective of their ages, rather than gender.

Rules change. And in remarkably little time!

For example... In the early seventies, young children still sometimes played naked in the fountains in Central Park in NYC. By the mid-seventies not only had that stopped, but they'd also started instituting rules at the beaches saying ALL children had to be in bathing suits. My mother was hugely offended. She thought sticking a bathing suit on a toddler was needlessly sexualizing them.

Now a naked child anywhere in public makes people freak out.

Your family's rule might be "no little boys in princess dresses", but (as should be obvious from the responses here) it's not actually "The Rule" for all of today's society, and other families may choose to do differently.

Spot on

 

[t_catt11]

Maybe where I'm seeing this different is I believe it's my job as a parent, if my child were to make a negative comment towards a boy dressed as a princess to correct my child. She would be the one after all making a hurtful comment, she's only 5 so she wouldn't understand completely saying something like "boys aren't supposed to be a princess" could be hurtful. I see it to be my parental job to let her know that could hurt someone's feelings, and at the same time allow her to have her opinion, just learn to keep certain things to herself.

For what it's worth - I agree with this 100%. If one of my children were to mock a boy in a dress, I would put a swift and complete end to such mockery. I absolutely believe in tolerance and acceptance - I personally am not offended if the boy wears a dress.

My own opinion is not incompatible with my parental advice.

 

[KellyNY]

Mags gave an actual source beyond the wiki... and even that expert can't figure out if it's a boy or girl. But I'll bite: What's your rock-solid source for being so insistent?

Read my posts again, just my opinion and my logic I put behind. What rock-solid source you are looking for on Disboards?

 

[MusiqChic99]

I'm really mystified by this point of view. Understand, I'm not attacking you - but just like you don't understand my point of view, I don't understand yours.

A boy in a dress doesn't hurt anyone, agreed. I don't think that anyone who finds this unusual - or feels that this is flying in the face of societal norms - is "sexualizing a child from birth".

People love to spout that the only differences in men and women are those imposed by society. Um... really? There are obvious physiological differences. There are numerous studies about the different ways that the brains work in the respective genders - btoh in the areas of logic and emotion.

Different is NOT bad. Different is different. The genders are different, ergo societal norms for genders are different.

Yes, those norms evolve over time. Currently, a boy in makeup and a dress flies in the face of that norm.

Good on the boy if he is oblivious now, but I think that you trivialize the embarassment he will almost certainly feel looking back on this - teaching moment or not.


Let me make a (hopefully) less controversial comparison. When DD15 was twelve years old, she decided to start expressing her "individuality" and dressing in all black, hanging out with the weird kids in school, etc. She was shocked to discover that other kids treated her differently, that even adults no longer reacted as positively to her.

It took a while for her to understand, but the fact is, society tends to view the "kids in black" as troublemakers and underachievers. The fact that quite a few in her peer group fit this mold (held back a grade, in trouble with drugs, not completing school assignments, etc) only served to cement the negative effects of her dress choices.

Should DD be able to wear whatever she wants? Sure. But she needs to be prepared to deal with the consequences of her actions.
As an aside, DD no longer dresses this way.

I dont think she should have to face ANY consequences for "her actions" to wear all black.

Shame on anyone who reacted to her that way.

 

[t_catt11]

So you took the part out about Dr Spock's son. I guess maybe factchecking isn't your strength.

Its a kid who wants to play dress up in Disney not some social protest about gender roles. If anywhere a kid could wear a princess dress and be totally normal its Disney. The people turning it into social protest are those who think its horrible. The rest of us don't think its a big deal (except I wouldn't pay for BBB for a boy or a girl but that's besides the point).

Will it embarrass him later, maybe, but I am embarrassed by some of the pictures of me in jr high, what was I thinking with the hair, or elementary school, really the plaid! Its part of growing up.

If my 4 year old daughter wanted to go around topless, I would let her. She looks exactly like her male cousin. Who does it really hurt, no one, but children learn from the actions of the adults around them. If a another kid asks about why that boy is wearing a princess dress and his parent says because he wants too vs his parent saying because he's weird and gay, those are too very different messages sent to that other child.

Someone up thread said that in America we don't shoot people for their opinions. The govt doesn't but society does harm those who are different than what they perceive as the norm. For example Matthew Shepard was beaten to death for being gay. Several teenagers committed suicide in the past few years because they were gay or just different. Its time people realize that children don't learn to pick on the different or weak from each other, but from their parents.

Children remember what you do for them at a young age. In my foster parent class, they tell a story about a little boy who was 4. He carried a purse everywhere with him. He was kicked out of several foster homes because of it. The foster parents thought it was strange and didn't want to deal with it. He committed suicide at 10. In the note he left he said he was a throw away kid so who really cared if he lived. You know maybe if someone told him it was ok at 4 to carry a purse and stood up for him if he was teased he would be alive. A kid remembers.

Yep, I took it out because I was incorrect, and as stated, it was an unneccesary strawman point... kind of like those you are making.

I agree that you shold not tolerate your children mocking others. Preventing your child from putting themselves into a situation to attract mockery is different than encouraging them to be closed minded.

 

[Aunt Bee]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I don't see a problem with your four year old son dressing up as a princess.

Wouldn't have a problem with a four year old girl dressing up as a pirate, either.

Sadly, in our society, we think it's wierd that little boys want to wear princess dresses and take ballet, but we think it's adorable when little girls want to wear jeans and baseball caps and play T-ball.

Kids aren't inhibited by societal mores; that comes later from peer pressure, etc. I'd let my child dress up as a princess if he wanted to.

And, as far as people making fun of him, by the time he gets finished in BBB, he will be transformed into a Princess. That's what they do there. Honestly, when my granddaughter came out, I didn't even recognize her! Her hair is very short and she was wearing an extension and makeup...

 

[Princess Disney Mom]

At that age I would not say that it is particularly weird bc kids that young just like to play dress up and don't really differentiate between male and female clothing. On the other hand I would def not let him do it and he will thank you later. When he is 8 and his friends or family bring it up I doubt he will be too happy lol. It would probably provide a good chuckle for the workers and other parks guests though.

Good point. There would be pictures too.

 

[nytimez]

Read my posts again, just my opinion and my logic I put behind. What rock-solid source you are looking for on Disboards?

You questioned another poster's source. Only fair to question yours, especially since you're so insistent that you're right. Seriously, you can't possibly know for certain one way or another... and that post just confirmed it and was all I was looking for. Thanks.

 

[Jey12]

My own opinion is not incompatible with my parental advice.

and I agree with you here. I think we're on the same train, just different cars.

I don't think a boy allowed to wear a princess dress to Disney is going to hate their parents down the road over this. If that were the case I really really should be very angry about the mini girl mullet I was allowed to sport in 4th-7th grade, or the big hair in high school, and I don't even want to discuss my clothing choices in the 80's. Personally I'm more upset about the corduroy jump suit in mustard yellow my mom kept taking pictures of me of when I was 3.

 

[Magpie]

More ammunition for the "how could anyone tell he's a boy anyway" side...

A Palestinian child and an Israeli child. Unrelated. One's a boy, the other's a girl.

Twins! One's a boy, the other's a girl. Good luck guessing which.

 

[KellyNY]

You questioned another poster's source. Only fair to question yours, especially since you're so insistent that you're right. Seriously, you can't possibly know for certain one way or another... and that post just confirmed it and was all I was looking for. Thanks.

It is also fair to at least read the post before you comment, don't you think. I am insistent on having opinion, not like I pushing it down someones throat, right?

 

[t_catt11]

I dont think she should have to face ANY consequences for "her actions" to wear all black.

Shame on anyone who reacted to her that way.

Really? So, let's walk into a typical school.

We have a group of well dressed, cleancut kids in one corner of the gym. In another, we have the kids all in black, with their long, shaggy hair, their piercings, their slouching, etc. Which group do you get more of a positive vibe from?

It's not fair to judge an individual on their appearance - I agree with this - but the "all in black" group gets the reputation due - as I mentioned in the original post - to the behaviours associated with that style of dress (underachievement, drugs, other problems up to and including criminal behavior).

For every Abby on NCIS, there are many, many more troublemakers. Of course, a lot of the kids in this group are dressing this way in an effort to just fit in somewhere (always amusing to me how the quest for individuality lends to kids looking alike in a different way).

In a perfect utopia, no one would judge by appearance at all. We do not live in such a utopia.

Note that I did not forbid DD from dressing this way - but I did try to help her understand why her social reactions changed. To me, this was of more benefit to her than saying "aw, my poor misunderstood snowflake, you are so special that it shouldn't matter what you do. The problem isn't you, it's everyone else!"

I expressed my love for her regardless of her attire, but tried to help her understand where the bias was coming from (and why).

 

[blondemom]

When my son was in first grade, the children had to make up a story, and then read it to the class (parents were invited). One child, a boy named "M", wrote about the princess he wanted to be when he grew up - came in wearing a pink top, too. A few of us have noticed that "M" seems a bit more sensitive then his male classmates. Hey, it is what it is from an early age.

Most of the parents didn't bat an eye, but all of his classmates were giggling and pointing at him. They continued after class to talk about how girly he was...after all, when have any of them seen a male princess??!! They weren't being mean or malicious - they were only 6. This was a big shock for them. Two years have passed, and they STILL talk about it. It was just something they have never experienced before. They don't know about cross-dressing or gender identity issues yet. They see a boy wanting to be a girl.

You know your child best - you know what he could handle as far as giggles, stares, and anything else. You also have to think of how you will feel. Will you be on the defensive the whole time? Will you be shooting glares at people just daring them to say something?

 

[nytimez]

not like I pushing it down someones throat, right?

You? Never crossed my mind.

 

[t_catt11]

and I agree with you here. I think we're on the same train, just different cars.

I don't think a boy allowed to wear a princess dress to Disney is going to hate their parents down the road over this. If that were the case I really really should be very angry about the mini girl mullet I was allowed to sport in 4th-7th grade, or the big hair in high school, and I don't even want to discuss my clothing choices in the 80's. Personally I'm more upset about the corduroy jump suit in mustard yellow my mom kept taking pictures of me of when I was 3.

I agree. I am simply of the opinion that there is no need to allow for that possible immediate issue or the possibility of the down the road humiliation.

My mother didn't cut my hair until I was four. I had long, beautiful red curls - and was a boy. I recall being humiliated when ladies would come and tell my mother what a pretty little girl I was, and as an older child, I despised those pictures of me.

Did that scar me for life? Puh-lease. Would I have preferred that she cut my hair earlier? You bet!

 

[MusiqChic99]

Really? So, let's walk into a typical school.

We have a group of well dressed, cleancut kids in one corner of the gym. In another, we have the kids all in black, with their long, shaggy hair, their piercings, their slouching, etc. which group do you get more of a positive vibe from?

It's not fair to judge an individual on their appearance - I agree with this - but the "all in black" group gets the reputation due - as I mentioned in the original post - to the behaviours associated with that style of dress (underachievement, drugs, other problems up to and including criminal behavior).

For every Abby on NCIS, there are many, many more troublemakers. Of course, a lot of the kids in this group are dressing this way in an effort to just fit in somewhere (always amusing to me how the quest for individuality lends to kids looking alike in a different way).

In a perfect utopia, no one would judge by appearance at all. We do not live in such a utopia.

Note that I did not forbid DD from dressing this way - but I did try to help her understand why her social reactions changed. To me, this was of more benefit to her than saying "aw, my poor misunderstood snowflake, you are so special that it shouldn't matter what you do. The problem isn't you, it's everyone else!"

I expressed my love for her regardless of her attire, but tried to help her understand where the bias was coming from (and why).

I wasn't coming at you at all in that post. I just felt bad for you daughter for being judged by her appearace.

 

[DisDayz]

This is sorta what I thought. My dd was bald forever...she got called a boy till she was at least 3 years old. And lots of little girls have short pixie style haircuts, or God forbid are going through something with their health that has caused hair loss. I probably wouldn't even think it was a boy just because I saw a short haired child in a dress.

This is in large part why I would no allow my son to do this. Most people will see a child in a dress and assume it is a girl, just as you stated you wouldn't even think it was a boy. At Disney, many random strangers make comments, especially about how cute a child looks after going to something like BBB. So, you have strangers making comments about a child in a dress. Most of those comments are going to be along the lines of "Isn't she so cute" or "She looks precious in her Cinderella dress". Those are likely to be the comments coming from well meaning adults trying to compliment the child or even from characters at meet and greets.

If Mom, Dad or DS are okay with this then I say go for it. However, if they are going to be offended because people keep referring to him as her or if he is going to have his feelings hurt by being referred to in this way repeatedly I would recommend saving those hurt feelings and gently persuading him to a different activity.

 

[Jey12]

Most of the parents didn't bat an eye, but all of his classmates were giggling and pointing at him. They continued after class to talk about how girly he was...after all, when have any of them seen a male princess??!! They weren't being mean or malicious - they were only 6. This was a big shock for them. Two years have passed, and they STILL talk about it. It was just something they have never experienced before. They don't know about cross-dressing or gender identity issues yet. They see a boy wanting to be a girl.

You know your child best - you know what he could handle as far as giggles, stares, and anything else. You also have to think of how you will feel. Will you be on the defensive the whole time? Will you be shooting glares at people just daring them to say something?

I have to wonder as a parent of a child close to that age WHY didn't any of the parents "who didn't bat an eye" stand up and tell their children to stop making fun of this little boy? Sometimes saying nothing speaks louder of your acceptance of bad behavior than if you openly agreed with the poor behavior.

Personally I would have had a long discussion right there with my daughter if she behaved in such a way. First I would have explained it was rude to speak and make comments during the little boy's story. It was his time and not hers. Second I would explain how her comments and laughter could be hurtful and she would then go apologize to the little boy. If I caught wind of her doing that years later still I would again repeat the second step and reinforce why that behavior is wrong and have her make yet another apology. We would repeat this all day every day if needed.


I do agree that it's up to the OP to decide how she would handle any offensive comments. If the adults are going to be on the defensive then more than likely the 4 year old boy would pick up on that far more than the comments being made. If that's the case then no don't do it because it will be a miserable day for all.

 

[KellyNY]

You? Never crossed my mind.

And what that suppose to mean besides that you are probably very bored this morning?

 

[t_catt11]

I wasn't coming at you at all in that post. I just felt bad for you daughter for being judged by her appearace.

I got you. I wasn't intending to "come back at you" - I was trying to expand upon the situation a bit.

I agree that people should not be judged on appearance... but they are.