Is it weird my son wants to do BBB as a princess?

[DisDayz]

First, I don't think this makes him weird. That being said, I definitely would not let my son do this.

While you are within your rights to express your opinion by letting him dress as Cinderella, I feel that others would certainly be within their rights to express their opinion disagreeing with that choice. That is the thing about tolerance. If they want them to be tolerant of your choice and your opinion then you must be willing to be tolerant of their choice and their opinion. And if you are open about your opinion (through allowing him to wear the dress in a public place) then you shouldn't criticize them for stating their opinion in return(through words, laughter, etc.). If this is going to offend you or your son then I would advise against the dress.

 

[VAN]

I only read a few replies. Your child is 4 years old and you are the adult/parent. There is NO WAY I would agree to put my child in a position where he would be unnecessarily rediculed.

Just because a child, teen, young adult "wants" something doesn't necessarily mean it is okay or in their best interests.

This is certainly an instance where you would set your child up for a very unhappy experience. Even if he didn't notice, I can't believe you would find it very enjoyable having your child the object of stares and unfavorable comments.

 

[t_catt11]

I only read a few replies. Your child is 4 years old and you are the adult/parent. There is NO WAY I would agree to put my child in a position where he would be unnecessarily rediculed.

Just because a child, teen, young adult "wants" something doesn't necessarily mean it is okay or in their best interests.

This is certainly an instance where you would set your child up for a very unhappy experience. Even if he didn't notice, I can't believe you would find it very enjoyable having your child the object of stares and unfavorable comments.

This.

 

[Magpie]

BTW, a younger child is a girl, again just by simple looking on the difference in outfit design, she is just not named but it does not mean it is a boy. Their outfits very different.

No, the picture is by John Badger, a Massachusetts painter, and we don't know the gender of the second child.

Believe me, I'm not unfamiliar with the picture. Wikipedia says "probably a girl" but that was based on a book by Linda Baumgarten called, "What Clothes Reveal: The Language of Clothing in Colonial and Federal America." In my opinion, it's a good book, but in some places she tries too hard to make the clothing fit her theories. And even SHE couldn't say for certain that the child's a girl.

Other scholars don't even bother to try. They simply say, "young child".

*doin' the art history touchdown dance*

 

[Phatoomch]

Maybe its just me but a lot of posters are convinced that he would be ridiculed and I just don't see that happening. Yeah, one or too might nudge one another and say something but I don't think anyone is going to go directly to the child and ridicule them.

I'm more likely to say something about the many spoilt brats I saw at Disney pitching a fit in restaurants & gift shops .... just saying

 

[MusiqChic99]

I can honestly tell you that if seeing a little boy dressed as Cinderella is the weirdest thing I might come across at my day at the park....then it's been a great day!!!!

Seriously...it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Love Tink]

I'm really mystified by the number of people who are suggesting this is a case where a parent needs to help the child learn to "make good choices."

What is wrong with this choice? The boy wants to express his creativity and use his imagination. He wants to have a unique experience...just like girls who go to BBB want to do. He's too young to care that he's not "supposed" to be a princess. Which is the whole point of childhood - to be innocent and open to the world around you.

How is this innocence a "bad choice" that needs to be stifled? (Like eating too much candy, or staying up all night, or whatever actual bad choices people have used as examples.) Is it a bad choice simply because you don't think boys should dress up as princesses? That's the only reason I can think of that anyone would consider this a "bad choice." I mean, the boy obviously wouldn't be hurting anyone....except maybe the sensibilities of those who sexualize children from birth.

There also seems to be massive concern about how people would point and laugh and make mean comments. Whatever. First of all, they wouldn't, at least not overtly. Secondly, four year olds are, naturally, less self conscious than puppies. And if the boy for some reason actually noticed a negative response, it would be a great opportunity to explain about how your family supports self expression and not every family does.

 

[Jey12]

You know, as soon as I posted that, I decided that I should have Snopsed it first. And worse, that was really an unnecessary strawman - my argument is valid without it.

Post edited, thank you.

NP. I found out the same way when I so knew I should have looked that rumor up before making a reference to it on a post of mine on facebook. It's one of those things that are so ironic you would really think it's true.

You made a very well stated point of view. While I do not agree totally with it, I just wanted to say it was well stated.

Maybe where I'm seeing this different is I believe it's my job as a parent, if my child were to make a negative comment towards a boy dressed as a princess to correct my child. She would be the one after all making a hurtful comment, she's only 5 so she wouldn't understand completely saying something like "boys aren't supposed to be a princess" could be hurtful. I see it to be my parental job to let her know that could hurt someone's feelings, and at the same time allow her to have her opinion, just learn to keep certain things to herself. I don't see where it would be the parent's job of the child that wasn't hurting anyone to correct their child.

I do agree if the OP takes her son to BBB she should also bring along a set of his regular clothes to be changed into. For one the dresses look miserable to walk around in all day. Second if someone does say something that makes your son want to take the dress off then you are prepared. I'm not sold on that a 4 year old would really understand or notice negative comments, unless the person directly got your son's attention and then spoke to him. Just in case he does I would want to be prepared to allow him to change if he wanted.

I personally don't find it to be a poor parenting choice to allow a boy to wear a princess dress at Disney. I find it poor parenting to allow you child to say hurtful things to another kid and not try and explain why the comment was negative and how to properly behave in a public area.

 

[nytimez]

BTW, a younger child is a girl, again just by simple looking on the difference in outfit design, she is just not named but it does not mean it is a boy. Their outfits very different.

This is a weird thing to be insistent over.

(I'd love to have a pet squirrel...)

The chains on the squirrel have me thinking this is a bad idea. I've seen all the "Planet of the Apes" movies, I know how these things usually turn out.

 

[deegack]

I have to agree with this post 100%.

I do understand the "he's at Disney, what does it matter?" train of thought. I likewise understand the "kids don't care, why should adults?" train of thought.

Note that DS4 and DS2 both play with a baby doll that we purchased to help DS4 understand a little about having a new baby in the house - and I'm perfectly fine with that. Our little boys like to grab mommy's blush brush and put some on when she puts on her makeup. Meh, no big deal. In short, I don't have some sort of homophobic agenda, here.

But the thing is, a boy in a princess dress, out in public, will almost certainly be made fun of - or at least pointed out multiple times. To me, it's your job as a parent to help guide a child to make the correct choices, even overruling the child if he insists on bad choices. If he chooses to eat nothing but candy, is it not your duty to say no to that?

Aside from the extreme utopian views that "we are all the same, man... gender roles are just invented by society anyway... fight the power, man!", the fact is that gender roles do exist in our society. Boys don't wear dresses in public. Women do not run around topless in public. Discussion on the fairness of these restrictions belongs in a classroom or an internet message board.

If he gets the BBB makeover in the Cinderella dress, you'll take pictures. 99.9% of boys will be mortified by these pictures later on (probably sooner than you'd believe), and most of them will resent a mother who allowed them to make the choice. I disagree with the posters who take the "your son will only remember that you have always supported him" nonsense - what he will remember is that you allowed him to make an embarassing choice.

Children need boundaries, and it's up to the parent to provide these.

No, I'm not saying that you will scar your son for life if he wears the dress; it probably won't be that huge of a deal. If you tell him no, he'll be mad at you for a bit. He'll get over it quickly - he's four. If you let him, he may well have his day ruined by the comments of others - and this hurt will linger much longer than the hurt of you saying no. If you let him, he will almost certainly be embarassed later, and may resent you for it - I can guarantee that these feelings will last longer, as they will come from an older child.

I know that many are advocating this as some sort of social protest, but I don't see the real benefit aside from being able to show how very open minded you really are.


</soapbox>

So you took the part out about Dr Spock's son. I guess maybe factchecking isn't your strength.

Its a kid who wants to play dress up in Disney not some social protest about gender roles. If anywhere a kid could wear a princess dress and be totally normal its Disney. The people turning it into social protest are those who think its horrible. The rest of us don't think its a big deal (except I wouldn't pay for BBB for a boy or a girl but that's besides the point).

Will it embarrass him later, maybe, but I am embarrassed by some of the pictures of me in jr high, what was I thinking with the hair, or elementary school, really the plaid! Its part of growing up.

If my 4 year old daughter wanted to go around topless, I would let her. She looks exactly like her male cousin. Who does it really hurt, no one, but children learn from the actions of the adults around them. If a another kid asks about why that boy is wearing a princess dress and his parent says because he wants too vs his parent saying because he's weird and gay, those are too very different messages sent to that other child.

Someone up thread said that in America we don't shoot people for their opinions. The govt doesn't but society does harm those who are different than what they perceive as the norm. For example Matthew Shepard was beaten to death for being gay. Several teenagers committed suicide in the past few years because they were gay or just different. Its time people realize that children don't learn to pick on the different or weak from each other, but from their parents.

Children remember what you do for them at a young age. In my foster parent class, they tell a story about a little boy who was 4. He carried a purse everywhere with him. He was kicked out of several foster homes because of it. The foster parents thought it was strange and didn't want to deal with it. He committed suicide at 10. In the note he left he said he was a throw away kid so who really cared if he lived. You know maybe if someone told him it was ok at 4 to carry a purse and stood up for him if he was teased he would be alive. A kid remembers.

 

[Magpie]

By the way... all the "he'll hear mean comments" and "people will be cruel" stuff is assuming people will somehow be able to tell at a glance that he's a boy.

Can anyone tell me HOW on Earth you can tell if a 4yo in a princess dress is a boy? Short hair? So what? Lots of girls have short hair!

So... how do any of you know you haven't already seen several 4yo boys in princess dresses at WDW?

I'm assuming you don't go around randomly insulting small children in princess dresses on the off-chance they might be boys.

 

[FireDancer]

Sorry, but I find this country to be pretty intolerant of any behaviour that doesn't fit the 'norm'. Now, here in NE, just about everything fits the norm, but there are many other areas of this country that are much less tolerant.

While we have a long way to go I think we are much better than many many places. There are still large areas of the world where you are stoned for being raped, are forced to dress a certain way by law, and can be legally killed for daring to marry outside of your class.

Of course there are hate crimes here but they are illegal and usually prosecuted as opposed to sanctioned by the government.

I've heard this before, but it doesn't quite work for me. Because that would mean that while I'm tolerating Jews and being cool with them having their own religion, I would also have to tolerate Nazis, and be cool with their point of view, too.

It doesn't mean you have to be cool with their point of view, it just means you have to be cool with them being allowed to have it. Of course they can't go out and commit crimes based on their views but they are 100% allowed to have them.

Let's put it another way. The Westboro Baptist Church are terrible people whom I couldn't disagree with more. I 100% support, however, their right to hold those believes and to protest on public property and would be disappointed if the government tried to limit their speech (or Nazis or other hate groups) just because it was unpopular speech. It is one of the most important tenants of the Constitution of the United States of America.

 

[lugnut33]

Go ahead and let him wear it, but explain to him that this is only for a special occasion. Maybe explain to him current social norms in our society but that for this special day an exception can be made.

And if anyone at WDW says anything, tell them to shut the heck up.

Also, it's really sweet that he want to dress up like his hero... Mom (who is a princess in his eyes).

 

[KellyNY]

No, the picture is by John Badger, a Massachusetts painter, and we don't know the gender of the second child.

Believe me, I'm not unfamiliar with the picture. Wikipedia says "probably a girl" but that was based on a book by Linda Baumgarten called, "What Clothes Reveal: The Language of Clothing in Colonial and Federal America." In my opinion, it's a good book, but in some places she tries too hard to make the clothing fit her theories. And even SHE couldn't say for certain that the child's a girl.

Other scholars don't even bother to try. They simply say, "young child".

*doin' the art history touchdown dance*

Wikipedia is one of those sources everyone can write without any credentials. Just like here on board. Since it is not important for history they pretty much do not even bother but does not mean we cannot have an opinion and mine is based on differences in what I see, not the similarities. Does it mean I am right, who knows, who cares. I just pointed that picture is not a good illustration of the true fact that kids wore same robes.

 

[hotblooded]

The child is 4. It's not an issue of gender roles or sexuality. We are all just a bunch of adults superimposing our judgments on what is really a simple situation. Here is a relevant blog post on the subject of boys dressing up as girls and the way fearful adults can react to something so innocent: http://nerdyapplebottom.com/2010/11/02/my-son-is-gay/

He wants to dress up as a character he idolizes, and I say go for it. It's Disney World; everyone will be so caught up in their own vacation they won't even notice. I doubt anyone will say a thing, except for how cute he is. This should be about your child getting the chance for free expression, and there's nothing weird about that.

P.S. It's probably a girl under that Mickey costume, yet no one seems to have a problem with that!

 

[Finally08]

Can anyone tell me HOW on Earth you can tell if a 4yo in a princess dress is a boy? Short hair? So what? Lots of girls have short hair!

So... how do any of you know you haven't already seen several 4yo boys in princess dresses at WDW?

I'm assuming you don't go around randomly insulting small children in princess dresses on the off-chance they might be boys.

This is sorta what I thought. My dd was bald forever...she got called a boy till she was at least 3 years old. And lots of little girls have short pixie style haircuts, or God forbid are going through something with their health that has caused hair loss. I probably wouldn't even think it was a boy just because I saw a short haired child in a dress.

ETA...I also think the double standard is unfair. My dd loves Buzz Lightyear and we have spent several days in WDW with her in her Buzz costume. All she got were thumbs up, and "how cool!" type comments from people who liked the fact that some "princesses" like Buzz.

 

[Jey12]

The chains on the squirrel have me thinking this is a bad idea. I've seen all the "Planet of the Apes" movies, I know how these things usually turn out.

I agree squirrels cannot be trusted. I have valid reason to believe some of the squirrels in my front yard are plotting against me.

 

[nytimez]

Wikipedia is one of those sources everyone can write without any credentials. Just like here on board. Since it is not important for history they pretty much do not even bother but does not mean we cannot have an opinion and mine is based on differences in what I see, not the similarities. Does it mean I am right, who knows, who cares. I just pointed that picture is not a good illustration of the true fact that kids wore same robes.

Mags gave an actual source beyond the wiki... and even that expert can't figure out if it's a boy or girl. But I'll bite: What's your rock-solid source for being so insistent?

 

[Magpie]

Wikipedia is one of those sources everyone can write without any credentials. Just like here on board. Since it is not important for history they pretty much do not even bother but does not mean we cannot have an opinion and mine is based on differences in what I see, not the similarities. Does it mean I am right, who knows, who cares. I just pointed that picture is not a good illustration of the true fact that kids wore same robes.

I didn't say Wikipedia was my reference - that's just where I got the pic, and I mentioned it in case anyone pointed to it and said, "It says 'probably'!" I've read the book. I've read other books. I looked for the picture because I've seen it before.

And I'm letting you know, the difference in the robes is reflective of age, not gender. It's true the older boy IS wearing a boy's dress, which is slightly different from what a girl *his age* would be wearing. A younger boy however would wear a dress identical to the younger child's in the picture. That's why we can't know the gender of the younger child.

Honestly, in large families, with high infant mortality, clothing was too expensive to fuss over separate "gendered" clothes for small boys and girls. Better to have just one set of clothes for all of them, and worry about it after you're reasonably certain they're going to live.

 

[t_catt11]

I'm really mystified by the number of people who are suggesting this is a case where a parent needs to help the child learn to "make good choices."

What is wrong with this choice? The boy wants to express his creativity and use his imagination. He wants to have a unique experience...just like girls who go to BBB want to do. He's too young to care that he's not "supposed" to be a princess. Which is the whole point of childhood - to be innocent and open to the world around you.

How is this innocence a "bad choice" that needs to be stifled? (Like eating too much candy, or staying up all night, or whatever actual bad choices people have used as examples.) Is it a bad choice simply because you don't think boys should dress up as princesses? That's the only reason I can think of that anyone would consider this a "bad choice." I mean, the boy obviously wouldn't be hurting anyone....except maybe the sensibilities of those who sexualize children from birth.

There also seems to be massive concern about how people would point and laugh and make mean comments. Whatever. First of all, they wouldn't, at least not overtly. Secondly, four year olds are, naturally, less self conscious than puppies. And if the boy for some reason actually noticed a negative response, it would be a great opportunity to explain about how your family supports self expression and not every family does.

I'm really mystified by this point of view. Understand, I'm not attacking you - but just like you don't understand my point of view, I don't understand yours.

A boy in a dress doesn't hurt anyone, agreed. I don't think that anyone who finds this unusual - or feels that this is flying in the face of societal norms - is "sexualizing a child from birth".

People love to spout that the only differences in men and women are those imposed by society. Um... really? There are obvious physiological differences. There are numerous studies about the different ways that the brains work in the respective genders - btoh in the areas of logic and emotion.

Different is NOT bad. Different is different. The genders are different, ergo societal norms for genders are different.

Yes, those norms evolve over time. Currently, a boy in makeup and a dress flies in the face of that norm.

Good on the boy if he is oblivious now, but I think that you trivialize the embarassment he will almost certainly feel looking back on this - teaching moment or not.


Let me make a (hopefully) less controversial comparison. When DD15 was twelve years old, she decided to start expressing her "individuality" and dressing in all black, hanging out with the weird kids in school, etc. She was shocked to discover that other kids treated her differently, that even adults no longer reacted as positively to her.

It took a while for her to understand, but the fact is, society tends to view the "kids in black" as troublemakers and underachievers. The fact that quite a few in her peer group fit this mold (held back a grade, in trouble with drugs, not completing school assignments, etc) only served to cement the negative effects of her dress choices.

Should DD be able to wear whatever she wants? Sure. But she needs to be prepared to deal with the consequences of her actions.

As an aside, DD no longer dresses this way.