Is it Stealing?

[punkin]

Well, I'm not very well versed in hoop jumping at all actually. I was more than willing to pay the tuition, but after going through several different officials in the school district, it was suggested that she might be able to finish up without paying the tuition - PROVIDED she was found to be deserving of that opportunity.

Apparently, she was.

Really, I'm not trying to single out your situation. I just wanted to point out that you were able to do it (based on either an arbitrary decision by school officials or by a loophole that no-one knew about), but a lot of others don't even know who to ask.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

Yep, its stealing.

DH and I lived in a "bad" school district. We opted to send our DS to a catholic school so he wouldn't have to attend that school. No, we're not rich. We scrimp and save. Drive 10 year old cars and buy nothing on credit.

We have since sold that home , living now with my mom and DS is still attending the Catholic school. We just signed papers yesterday to build a home in a good school district, so after next year , DS and DD when she's old enough will attend the public school.


And as far as not paying school taxes if you have no kids, well thats crazy. The same should apply to my DS also. We used to pay school tax though we send our DS to a private school. Then we shouldn't have to pay school tax either.

 

[grinningghost]

Really, I'm not trying to single out your situation. I just wanted to point out that you were able to do it (based on either an arbitrary decision by school officials or by a loophole that no-one knew about), but a lot of others don't even know who to ask.

Well, let's hope that we educated a few people.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Sorry, you're clueless here. You ARE rich compared to many people. You own a home? You purchased into a school district? Exactly. A single mother breaking her back working two or maybe three jobs who is interested in not seeing her kid go to a slum school deserves the choice to opt out. Here's a news flash - affordable housing and good school districts don't go hand in hand. So while you can look down on the kids who are poor I would much prefer to grab the ones who have an interest in succeeding and give them whatever help they need. They don't deserve to be trapped in a building full of crime, either just because their skin is not white or because their mother doesn't speak English.

This is the worst case of NIMBY I've seen on the DIS.

You aren't serious are you? There are plenty of single parents where I live. I also never said I look down on anyone. I do however think it's disgusting to not take an active role in your kids life. Be it education or otherwise. You also have no idea what the color of my skin is so that's a pretty dumb assumption to make. I happen to live in a blue collar neighborhood that is pretty diverse. I also have plenty of relatives from different countries and they have done pretty well for themselves. Almost everyone I know has relatives from all over. So your non-english speaking theory is null as far as I am concerned. I also know single parents that are very up on what is going on with their kids. You say they don't deserve to be in a building full of crime? Who does? I again go back to what I said originally. WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?!!! Who is commiting these crimes? Someone else's kids obviously but whose kids are they? I happen to know plenty of people who live in less than desirable school districts and they have very successful children going on to top nitch colleges! Want to know why? Because they are involved with what's going on. That is the point I was trying to make. A school district is only as good as what you put into it. If you make no effort, then even Harvard isn't going to be good enough for you.

 

[ducklite]

Nice to be rich, isn't it?

I'm not rich, and 15 years ago when I was in a very low tax bracket DH and I lived in a very small apartment in a town with good schools rather than a larger place with OK schools. it's all about choice in thsi life. That and personal responsibility, which far too many people completely lack.

I, too, bought a great house in a great neighborhood and even still I send my dd to private school. I have the power of $$$ to exercise my choice. Unfortunately, many parents are not given the option of simply buying a house in a better district. They are trapped. So are their children. They are still forced to pay taxes, even to a consistently failing school. Their children graduate with a diploma that means nothing or don't bother finishing at all thereby continuing a very vicious cycle.

There are far too many highly successful people who completely dispell that. If the parents have a vested interest in their children those children will succeed. One of my co-workers lives in an area with bad schools, yet she and her husband spent several hours every week reinforcing their boys academics and making sure they learned. Those boys both went to college on scholarships and on to successful careers. It's a cop out to blame it on the schools when it's just as often lazy and ineffective parenting.

Nope, if a parent is so vested in their child's education they are willing to drive the kid clear across a district/county/whatever I really don't care. A parent willing to make a sacrifice to give their kid a better chance at life via a good education is a good parent. When parents are given a reasonable and legitimate choice as to the future of their child I *may* begin to quibble over tax dollars and property values - until then, I'll go ahead and give the parent the benefit of the doubt.

When parents take a vested interest in the schools in THEIR COMMUNITY and vote/volunteer to change things that aren't working, then I might look at it differently. Until then, they can fix their own mess.

Anne

 

[punkin]

Well, let's hope that we educated a few people.

I doubt that the people who need educating have internet access and frequent the DisBoards.

 

[mrsltg]

When parents take a vested interest in the schools in THEIR COMMUNITY and vote/volunteer to change things that aren't working, then I might look at it differently. Until then, they can fix their own mess.

Anne

Right. You've never been to an inner-city school or if you have, you kept your eyes closed.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but kids don't get a choice and it's hard to save for a house when it's all you can do to put food on the table. And, who is the "they" you are referring too? My husband is an inner city cop. He's arrested people who can barely SPELL their own name. They have diplomas from the DC school system. They were never given a choice in life and will continue to procreate generations who will do the same. If even ONE of these kids wants a way out I am all for giving it to them.

Once again, this is nothing more than a bad case of NIMBY.

 

[ducklite]

Right. You've never been to an inner-city school or if you have, you kept your eyes closed.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but kids don't get a choice and it's hard to save for a house when it's all you can do to put food on the table. And, who is the "they" you are referring too? My husband is an inner city cop. He's arrested people who can barely SPELL their own name. They have diplomas from the DC school system. They were never given a choice in life and will continue to procreate generations who will do the same. If even ONE of these kids wants a way out I am all for giving it to them.

Once again, this is nothing more than a bad case of NIMBY.

I LIVED in an inner city apartment when my DS was a toddler, and made sure I was out of there and in an area with better schools before he became school age, even though it meant working a second job, and yes, I was a single mom.

Because of this I don't believe in cop outs.

Anne

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I'm not rich, and 15 years ago when I was in a very low tax bracket DH and I lived in a very small apartment in a town with good schools rather than a larger place with OK schools. it's all about choice in thsi life. That and personal responsibility, which far too many people completely lack.



There are far too many highly successful people who completely dispell that. If the parents have a vested interest in their children those children will succeed. One of my co-workers lives in an area with bad schools, yet she and her husband spent several hours every week reinforcing their boys academics and making sure they learned. Those boys both went to college on scholarships and on to successful careers. It's a cop out to blame it on the schools when it's just as often lazy and ineffective parenting.



When parents take a vested interest in the schools in THEIR COMMUNITY and vote/volunteer to change things that aren't working, then I might look at it differently. Until then, they can fix their own mess.

Anne

Exactly!

 

[mrsltg]

I LIVED in an inner city apartment when my DS was a toddler, and made sure I was out of there and in an area with better schools before he became school age, even though it meant working a second job, and yes, I was a single mom.

Because of this I don't believe in cop outs.

Anne

Did you speak the native language? Did you have an education to back you up? You had someone to watch the child while you worked your second job?

Lastly, it wasn't good enough for your child, but other people's children should be condemned?

I don't believe in cop outs either. I do believe in not visiting the "sins" of the parent onto the child. Not every poor person can save enough to afford home ownership, let alone a non-subsidized apartment. All you do by depriving a child of an education is ensure they will never succeed and will create the next generation of people who won't succeed.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Right. You've never been to an inner-city school or if you have, you kept your eyes closed.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but kids don't get a choice and it's hard to save for a house when it's all you can do to put food on the table. And, who is the "they" you are referring too? My husband is an inner city cop. He's arrested people who can barely SPELL their own name. They have diplomas from the DC school system. They were never given a choice in life and will continue to procreate generations who will do the same. If even ONE of these kids wants a way out I am all for giving it to them.

Once again, this is nothing more than a bad case of NIMBY.

I don't know why you keep saying NIMBY? Nobody is saying that at all. I personally think that if you feel so strongly about it then why don't you move to the areas that you are talking about and start there. I bet you could help tons of people. No sarcasm here so don't take it that way. You want to go on about how sad it is and yes in some cases it is sad, but they do have a choice to be the best they can be rather than a hoodlum. I happen to have a friend whose dh never learned to read. He is LD and the school just passed him through. We all went to the same school and it is a good district. Does he get arrested? Does he commit crime? Definetly not. He had a family that raised him not to do those things. Did they fall short in his education? They sure did but that doesn't mean he has no choice but to rob 7-11's! He didn't go to an inner city school. He still has a diploma and can't read. His wife was LD and she can read just fine. Her parents took and interest in her education. He has a good job and is doing fine. Would he have been doing better if his parents steppedup to the plate. Probably. It is all about choice. You either get involved with your kids or you don't.

 

[ducklite]

Did you speak the native language?

In many major cities in this country, Spanish is the dominant language anymore, so that's bs.

Did you have an education to back you up?

Yeah, a HS diploma. I began college classes while I was working two jobs.

You had someone to watch the child while you worked your second job?

Sure, the one I PAID.

Lastly, it wasn't good enough for your child, but other people's children should be condemned?

Like I said, until people take a vested interest in thier schools, volunteering and voting, they get what they get and need to put up or shut up.

I don't believe in cop outs either. I do believe in not visiting the "sins" of the parent onto the child. Not every poor person can save enough to afford home ownership, let alone a non-subsidized apartment. All you do by depriving a child of an education is ensure they will never succeed and will create the next generation of people who won't succeed.

I look at it differently. If you MAKE those children make good decisioins for themselves, then they will value thier education and life much more. Giving it to them with no strings attached makes it worth nothing.

Anne

 

[undertheradar]

This is theft! Here in California, and I am sure in many other states, we have to prove legal residence. This is done with a valid ID. and current utility bill: electric, gas, water - cable or phone are not accepted as proof of residence. This applies to all students registering in the district and is not waived. If the student wants to participate in interscholastic sports this proof of residency is magnified. Use of a non-eligible player results in forfeiture by the team. With taxes throughout the country varying by tax(school) district, the "borrowing" of an address is without a doubt a crime.

 

[jodifla]

This is theft! Here in California, and I am sure in many other states, we have to prove legal residence. This is done with a valid ID. and current utility bill: electric, gas, water - cable or phone are not accepted as proof of residence. This applies to all students registering in the district and is not waived. If the student wants to participate in interscholastic sports this proof of residency is magnified. Use of a non-eligible player results in forfeiture by the team. With taxes throughout the country varying by tax(school) district, the "borrowing" of an address is without a doubt a crime.

So, homeless kids don't get to go to school? What about families living with other families who don't have any utility bills?

 

[arminnie]

I think it's worse than stealing.

It's teaching your child that it is ok to lie and cheat. Not the sort of values that I'd hope get taught at home.

I always wondered where those executives at Enron got their values (or lack thereof) - bet they had parents that taught them it was okay to lie and cheat if that was what was necessary for them to get ahead.

 

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

If you use another person’s address to send your child to a better school district, would that be considered stealing?

I think it would be, I know of school districts that have taken families to court for this and the courts have ordered the families to pay back "tuition".
So the courts think it is stealing.

Do you?

YES it is stealing. This has recently been on the news in our area and people are getting into serious trouble for it!

 

[jodifla]

Depends on where you live.

Michigan has School of Choice. Basically, you can go to any school district that has openings and will accept you. Because the economy is so bad in Michigan right, most of even the best school districts want to fill up their schools, so they accept kids from other districts. Otherwise, these school districts would no longer be good...they'd have to slash their budgets.

Florida, which I am much more familar with, has you go to your local school. But even there, there are exceptions. There's a pretty strong magnet school program in most areas. And there are other expeptions that are made based on need.

I'm not sure why anyone would wish the less good schools on any student. There are a couple of particularly bad districts in Michigan.

Schools don't change overnight, unfortunately. So many of you are wishing a lifetime of poverty and less opportunity for kids just because they can't afford a good school district.

You THINK you are punishing the parents, but you are really punishing the kids.

 

[punkin]

I always wondered where those executives at Enron got their values (or lack thereof) - bet they had parents that taught them it was okay to lie and cheat if that was what was necessary for them to get ahead.

I guess that's how they got to be executives in the first place.

 

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

here it is! it was a local news thing that was attached to this program! i knew i remembered it!

Article

 

[ducklite]

Depends on where you live.

Michigan has School of Choice. Basically, you can go to any school district that has openings and will accept you. Because the economy is so bad in Michigan right, most of even the best school districts want to fill up their schools, so they accept kids from other districts. Otherwise, these school districts would no longer be good...they'd have to slash their budgets.

Florida, which I am much more familar with, has you go to your local school. But even there, there are exceptions. There's a pretty strong magnet school program in most areas. And there are other expeptions that are made based on need.

I'm not sure why anyone would wish the less good schools on any student. There are a couple of particularly bad districts in Michigan.

Schools don't change overnight, unfortunately. So many of you are wishing a lifetime of poverty and less opportunity for kids just because they can't afford a good school district.

You THINK you are punishing the parents, but you are really punishing the kids.

So those whose parents can afford to live in a better district should get a lesser education? In effect that's what you are saying. If a district has $100 from local taxpayers to spend, and 100 kids that live in that district, then they have $1 per kid. If 20 kids from a neighboring district lie to get into the better district, now you do'nt have any more money, but you've got 20 more kids, thus reducing the money you've got to spend on each kid by 17%. The local taxpayers pay for the education of the kids in thier community, and those kids should be able to get the full benefit on the taxes.

And frankly there's no such thing as "a lifetime of poverty" to kids in bad districts. Those kids who are motivated to succeed will do so. In the worst schools you'll still find bright and motivated kids who get good grades, learn, and go on to college. Generally those kids have parents who care about their education, even if they aren't educated themselves.

Anne