Is it Stealing?

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

some of the article!

Parents Who Cheat for Their Kids


Charleston, S.C., Is Threatening Jail for Parents Who Lie About Where They Live so Their Kids Can Attend a Better School

(ABCNEWS.com)

Magnet School Attracts Attention
John Stossel's 'Stupid in America'

By JOHN DONVAN

Feb. 1, 2007— Thirty days in jail? Is that a risk worth taking to get your kids into the best public school around? In Charleston, S.C., that may be the reality some parents need to grapple with now that the public school system has decided to crack down on parents who are faking their home addresses for the cause of a good education.

It was recently discovered that several families with hopes of sending their kids to kindergarten at a place called Buist Academy were filling out the application forms under false pretenses. Buist, a magnet elementary school with all the benefits that status includes — more teachers, better funding and a superior rate of high school attendance after graduation — is located in a section of Charleston known as "downtown." A kindergarten spot is so sought after that each year up to 240 families apply for the 40 spaces available.
Acceptance requires hitting a few different marks, among them: passing an entrance exam and having an address in "downtown." That, apparently, is where the system has been gamed. Families living outside downtown — miles away in some cases — have been, according to Buist Academy principal Sallie Ballard, falsifying their applications, listing as their residences downtown addresses where they don't live, and where, sometimes, nobody at all lives.

"I found one child last year who was 'living' in a coffee shop," says Ballard. "I found another one 'living' in her father's office." Of course, the point is that neither of these children lived at those addresses, and their parents were asked to withdraw their children's applications.


The discovery turned into something of a scandal locally, prompting the board of education in Charleston to spell out more explicit rules for establishing residency for new year's applying class. The new application form will include a warning that providing false information constitutes perjury under South Carolina law, which carries a penalty of up to 30 days in jail.

Realistically, it is not likely that families will be prosecuted, even if they do lie, says local attorney Greg Myers, who serves on the school board. But he believes the threat sends a message. "People will do a lot for their children," says Myers, but "we want them to know that there's a limit to what they should do."

It's a message that could apply well beyond Charleston, for the trend of parents lying to get their kids into better schools is evident in communities all over the nation. Tonight's "Nightline," for example, includes surveillance videotape recorded on orders from the board of education in Philadelphia trying to establish whether a family whose two teenage daughters attended public schools actually lived in the city. The board had received an anonymous tip that the family actually lived in a suburb called Bensalem.

"The letter included photographs, detailed information on the family, where they were living, what the schools their children attended," explains the board of education's Inspector General Jack Downs. Whoever sent it, he says, was "someone that knows the family very well."

Downs assigned former Philadelphia cop Bill Callahan to stake out the house in Bensalem that was, according to the anonymous letter writer, where the two girls really live. Several days ago, Callahan nailed it, capturing on videotape the two girls and their mother leaving the Bensalem house for their schools in Philadelphia. Callahan then called the home and over the phone, confronted the mother with the evidence. "She didn't say it," he recalls of that conversation, "but I knew in her mind, she said 'okay you got me.'"

Yesterday the Bensalem presented the board of education with a check for nearly $30,000 to avoid the immediate expulsion of the daughters from the Philadelphia schools. Going forward, the girls will be allowed to stay enrolled, but only if the school system continues to receive compensation for their education, an arrangement that exists for other out-of-boundary students attending Philadelphia schools.

 

[MassJester]

I always wondered where those executives at Enron got their values (or lack thereof) - bet they had parents that taught them it was okay to lie and cheat if that was what was necessary for them to get ahead.

Quite possibly. Hard to guess about that--however, to the original point here, the parent will be enlisting the aid of her child in an act of clear deception in order to gain something to which they were not otherwise entitled.

When thinking of "family values taught in the home," lying and fraud didn't formerly come to mind.

But then I guess family values are individually determined.

 

[undertheradar]

So, homeless kids don't get to go to school? What about families living with other families who don't have any utility bills?

Again, the State is requiring that the school districts have verified proof that the child is eligible to attend the school. Families living with other families would not have utlity bills therefore they would not be allowed to register at the school. We had to show eligibility for our kindergartener to be able to sign her up. For the families living with other families, what address do they use for legal means? What address do they have for ID?
Our school district is overcrowded and it is fighting back by enforcing the eligibility rules. Perhaps you wish to have your town and school district overcrowded with all of the homeless and unable to document families! No system is perfect and the system used to fund schools nationwide is antiquated and out of date. The salaries paid to administrators is on par with executive compensation at major corporations. Our district has 4 different elementary directors, 3 for middle school planning, and 7 for high schools- all of these jobs are 6 figure salaries and work in the district office. This does not include the Superintendant, assts, building services directors, business managers, accountants, child nutritionists, etc. The money directed for education is being absorbed by management, not spent directly on students. Until public sector jobs are published and scrutenized, change will not occur. Levels of management at our schools is equal to the layers of management of the Walt Disney Company. Check your local school district's budget, you'll be amazed at how many vehicles are provided and how little money gets to the classrooms.

 

[arielsleepingbeauty]

In my town, we do allow a child to go to any school in the town as long as the parent transports the child.

We have had one student whose family was displaced from Hurricane Katrina. The family was living at a motel in our town. Our town did allow the child to attend our school.

 

[punkin]

We have had one student whose family was displaced from Hurricane Katrina. The family was living at a motel in our town. Our town did allow the child to attend our school.

Kick them out. Danged freeloaders!

 

[autumnbaby9]

Ok I have a ?

Is all the anger over parents that send their child to a school in another town? My DD goes to a school that is not in our neighborhood but is still in our school district.

We have lived in our house for over 15 years and I'm not moving anywhere. When we first moved here the school in our neighberhood was great. Over the years it has gone down hill and become a dump.

I use my Best Friends address to get DD into a school about a mile away. The school knows I did this and has not said a word (might have something to do with the fact I and my DM are some of their best volunteers).

I pay taxes to the Boise school district and I provide DD's transportation. Why shouldn't they let DD go to the better school. And its not better because of money it is better because of staff nand parent involvment. My DM and myself tried to fix things at the other school but the staff just ignored us and put us down as troublesome parents.

 

[Daxx]

Like I said, until people take a vested interest in thier schools, volunteering and voting, they get what they get and need to put up or shut up.

Question for you. I have the following situation in my classroom: a single mom who drops her kids off at 6:50 am (before the school doors even open) b/c she has to be at work (2 blocks away from school) by 7 am. She leaves job #1 at 3pm and rushes off to work job #2 which she gets off from around 10 pm. The kids go from school to the after-school program to being picked up by the babysitter. They're in bed before Mom even gets home. Exactly when is this mother supposed to find the time to volunteer at the school? A majority of our events are after school hours. How can she begin to take a vested interest in her child's school when Home School Association meetings are at 7pm?

Sure, she's scrimping and saving to send her children to a parochial school b/c it's better than the other inner city schools in the area. B/c of her constant work schedule, how/when is she supposed to become vested in the school?

 

[ducklite]

Question for you. I have the following situation in my classroom: a single mom who drops her kids off at 6:50 am (before the school doors even open) b/c she has to be at work (2 blocks away from school) by 7 am. She leaves job #1 at 3pm and rushes off to work job #2 which she gets off from around 10 pm. The kids go from school to the after-school program to being picked up by the babysitter. They're in bed before Mom even gets home. Exactly when is this mother supposed to find the time to volunteer at the school? A majority of our events are after school hours. How can she begin to take a vested interest in her child's school when Home School Association meetings are at 7pm?

I was in a similar situation when DS was in elementary school. I used my vacation days to volunteer. (God knows I couldn't afford to take a vacation and go anywhere!) And my evening job was in retail, I would ask to not be scheduled on nights of PTA meetings and such. I made it work, because it was important to me. One year instead of volunteering in the school durinmg the day, I did the newsletter for the PTA at home on my computer. It was something I could do on the weekends and still help the school. (BTW--before the flames start, the computer was provided by my job, and they ahd no problem with me using it for the school newsletter project.)

Sure, she's scrimping and saving to send her children to a parochial school b/c it's better than the other inner city schools in the area. B/c of her constant work schedule, how/when is she supposed to become vested in the school?

I found ways to do so.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Ok I have a ?

Is all the anger over parents that send their child to a school in another town? My DD goes to a school that is not in our neighborhood but is still in our school district.

We have lived in our house for over 15 years and I'm not moving anywhere. When we first moved here the school in our neighberhood was great. Over the years it has gone down hill and become a dump.

I use my Best Friends address to get DD into a school about a mile away. The school knows I did this and has not said a word (might have something to do with the fact I and my DM are some of their best volunteers).

I pay taxes to the Boise school district and I provide DD's transportation. Why shouldn't they let DD go to the better school. And its not better because of money it is better because of staff nand parent involvment. My DM and myself tried to fix things at the other school but the staff just ignored us and put us down as troublesome parents.

You are sending your child to a school in the same tax district. That's the difference.

Anne

 

[daisyduck123]

You are sending your child to a school in the same tax district. That's the difference.

Anne

Even in the same tax district, it's wrong.
If you have to give a phony home address, then it is wrong.
This is what leads to overcrowded classrooms.

Believe it or not, there is a formula used to determine the projected enrollment for the following year. This includes students moving into & out of the area, plus the number that were at the school the previous year. Those numbers are used to determine a school's staffing for the following year. When extra students are there, this leads to overcrowding.

 

[JVL1018]

Again, the State is requiring that the school districts have verified proof that the child is eligible to attend the school. Families living with other families would not have utlity bills therefore they would not be allowed to register at the school. We had to show eligibility for our kindergartener to be able to sign her up. For the families living with other families, what address do they use for legal means? What address do they have for ID?
.

Well, I can answer that for my situation.
We live in a 2 family house with my FIL, the house is his, so we are not on the deed, we pay no rent, so we have no rental agreement.
The taxes we are to pay, we pay to him and then he pays them, so there is no record of us paying property taxes-we do of course pay all of our own utilities and bills for the home.


Even though we do have seperate living spaces, we are considered living with family since we don't pay rent for our house-we need a notarized letter from my FIL saying that we do legally live here full time--that PLUS the utility bills and our drivers licenses.

 

[The_Horned_King]

I understadn why peopel do this but 100% it is stealing due to many schools being funded by property tax! If your not paying the tax your kids going for free.

That said many districts have open enrollment if they have extra room. So I don't see why people feel the need to lie.

Lastly, IF someone sent thier kids to a school this way and they played sports you could and would put all the other kids on that team in a horrible place. If it was found out, teams would be forced to forfit wins, ect.!

 

[CEDmom]

That's your assumption and your interpretation based on what I've written. Those things you mentioned are not things that I'd ever consider doing.

Again, if my child had to attend an unsafe and crappy school and I had a family member living in a better school boundary, I wouldn't hesitate to use their address to have my child attend the better school. To me, the situation that I'm describing can be a matter of safety and survival. What you're describing is nowhere even near that. I'm not willing to sacrifice my child. No one has to agree with me.

How about moving to a better district? Our old district was rezoned just before our DD started school. Instead of going to the decent elementary school a few blocks away she was sent to a crappy one about 5 miles away. We immediately started exploring our options. We chose to move.

As much as I want the best for my child I cannot use that as a means to justify lying and fraud.

BTW, at least here in NJ, districts allow you to enroll your child as long as you pay out of district tuition and there's room.

 

[Daxx]

I was in a similar situation when DS was in elementary school. I used my vacation days to volunteer. (God knows I couldn't afford to take a vacation and go anywhere!) And my evening job was in retail, I would ask to not be scheduled on nights of PTA meetings and such. I made it work, because it was important to me. One year instead of volunteering in the school durinmg the day, I did the newsletter for the PTA at home on my computer. It was something I could do on the weekends and still help the school. (BTW--before the flames start, the computer was provided by my job, and they ahd no problem with me using it for the school newsletter project.)

I found ways to do so.

Anne

Thanks for the info. However, I still think it all depends on the situation you're in. For example, what do you do if you're a hair stylist, you rent a chair at a salon and you depend on customers to make your living? That's what this mom does. So, any vaca. time is money out of her pocket since she's dependent on clients for $$. She needs her money and doesn't take time off. She once said why bother b/c she can't afford to take the kids anywhere, anyway. She works in a low-economic area, not by choice I'm sure. She doesn't have a car and walks to both jobs. I suppose she considers herself lucky that both jobs are close to the school and her home. We don't bus children, so she walks the kids to school every day, then walks the couple of blocks to work.

Everyone's situation is different. I'm glad that you were able to participate in your child's school ... but not everybody has a job/jobs which allow them to do that.

As for the typing of newsletters for PTA -- our HSA secretary must be at every meeting to take the minutes of the meeting, type them up, copy and distribute them. That's her job according to the charter of the HSA.

 

[rt2dz]

Here, you not only have to live in the district, but be zoned for the school you attend. You must show you actually live in that house. You are required to have it on your drivers license and you must present an utility bill with your name on it or a renters agreement showing that utilities are included. Periodically they mail things to your home. If you are caught cheating the system, you are required to pay back tution for the entire enrolled time--even if you actually did live in the house part of that time--and are immediately removed from the school.

If you want to change schools/districts you can apply first to the school you want to go to (and if approved) then to the school board. If the school board agrees, then you may attend that school. If it is a different district, they do require you to pay fees. And, generally, to get approval, you need a very good reason why or to be an employee of that school district.

Personally, I believe it should be run more like preschool registration around here is done. A certain group of people get early registration. While for preschool that is currently enrolled children (who are guaranteed a spot) and their siblings (who have first priority with a lottery if more children want in than available slots), for school it could be those living in the zoned area.
The next set that get in at preschool are alumni (no one currently enrolled but siblings previously attended). For the public schools it could be siblings of students who are zoned out but currently attending, using the same type lottery system if siblings outnumber open spots. Preschool then has open registration for any remaining spots, using the lottery system. Public schools could do the same, opening their registration to first those who aren't zoned for that school but live in district and then for out of district students. And then, like preschool, have the waiting list as spots become available.

I believe schools would actually be better if they needed to compete more. And, for those who are screaming about the busing, they could say hey, a perk for attending your zoned school is bus service and not offer bus service to those who live out of the zoning. Taxing would not necessarily have to change.

Ok, anyhow, the real question--is it "stealing". I don't think so. It is wrong. It's fraud. But I don't necessarily think it is "stealing". Maybe though.

Ok, I'm going to go read the thread now.

 

[Anewman]

I understadn why peopel do this but 100% it is stealing due to many schools being funded by property tax! If your not paying the tax your kids going for free.

That said many districts have open enrollment if they have extra room. So I don't see why people feel the need to lie.

Lastly, IF someone sent thier kids to a school this way and they played sports you could and would put all the other kids on that team in a horrible place. If it was found out, teams would be forced to forfit wins, ect.!

While I agree with your post.

When it comes to sports, having a kid from out of the schools boundaries does not instantly equal forfeits. There are so many rules it does get confusing, but I can put my kid in a school 30 miles away and it would not result in any penalty, but if I transfer him back to the local school after he played a game for the other school he would be forced to sit out a year or face penalty(foreit). CIF rules are very confusing and for every rule there are loopholes(hardships), but there have been plenty of kids thrown out of schools with no penalty to the school he was illegal at as long as he had not played elsewhere b4 hand.

 

[autumnbaby9]

This is what leads to overcrowded classrooms.

Believe it or not, there is a formula used to determine the projected enrollment for the following year. This includes students moving into & out of the area, plus the number that were at the school the previous year. Those numbers are used to determine a school's staffing for the following year. When extra students are there, this leads to overcrowding.

The school my DD would normally go to is actually more crowded than the one I send her too. Instead of being in a classroom with only 22 students she would be in classroom with close to 35 (I know this because of the neighbors children). This is another reason I chose to do what I did. If this means I'm a terrible parent, I can live with that .

 

[rt2dz]

As I'm reading I thought I should add this.

Here you have school districts. It could have to do with what town you live in, but not necessarily. My town (S) the local neighboring towns (C, O, W) are all part of the same school district CISD. Part of my town is also part of SISD and KISD. Part of W is also part of TISD. Each school serves a particular area zoned for it. CISD (mine) has over 50 elementary schools, 18 intermediate schools, 12 middle schools and 6 high schools.

Our school taxes are paid directly to the school district. At the end of each year I receive tax bills for the MUD, School district, hospital district and some other general tax bill. Our school taxes are exteremly high.

We're looking to move to a neighboring town (M) which has its own school district, with schools that are equally good and in some cases better (and, yes, I'm picking my neighborhood/subdivision on what school it is zoned for) and half the tax rate of CISD. M is a whole whopping 12 minutes away and all the tax rates are 1/2!!

 

[Christine]

You are sending your child to a school in the same tax district. That's the difference.

Anne

Oh brother. THAT'S what started this thread. My DD wanted to go to a different high school in the SAME tax district and the OP of this thread said that it was a form of stealing. Now it's not?

 

[Chicago526]

If you use another person’s address to send your child to a better school district, would that be considered stealing?

I think it would be, I know of school districts that have taken families to court for this and the courts have ordered the families to pay back "tuition".
So the courts think it is stealing.

Do you?

Yup! I sympathise with the parents, they can't afford to live in the posh school district, their own totally sucks, but they still want a good education for their kids. But at the end of the day, it's still wrong and the school districts should go after them.

The answer, of course, is to make sure there isn't such a huge disparity between schools in wealthy areas and schools in poor areas. Then this type of thing wouldn't be an issue.