Is it okay to put family first? (Response to royal family stuff)

[bcla]

re the bolded part: the problem is that this is what she actually said, and now that is what people actually believe. She wasn't a Saudi princess locked in her room and unable to leave the castle let alone the country, but she portrayed herself that way.

I don't think it's our role to decide she didn't actually mean what she actually said, and therefore excuse the fact that it was a lie.

I know what she said. It was an interview and not testimony in court. We're not particularly privy to what happened when she left the UK. If you believe she meant to lie, then I can't persuade you otherwise. What I took out of that was that being asked to hand over her passports and ID, which was rather disconcerting.

The issue I see is that everyone is taking this as way to speculate and just take apart everything said in the interview with a fine tooth comb looking for inconsistencies. For the most part the Royal Family isn't going to answer other than fairly small pronouncements.

 

[VandVsmama]

I made the same assumption -- she's here so she obviously didn't commit suicide.

But they made some excellent points in that video link. Diana, Charles and Harry have all received help and they work with many organizations that focus on mental health so there is obviously no stigma to getting help. Plus any therapy she received would be confidential. We only know those three got help because they themselves said so. She says they wouldn't allow her to get any help because that wouldn't be a good look and I just don't buy it.

She said she went to HR, but the problem is they only represent the staff -- which is fair since there needs to be some separation between upstairs and downstairs these days and workers deserve protection even in Buckingham Palace. They can't represent her and the family has their own office that does things like scheduling doctor appointments. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I would have to say she went to HR and they said they weren't allowed to book appointments for her -- that doing so wouldn't be a good look for them, it would be overstepping. And she got confused and took that out of context. Just a speculation.

She said she went to Harry pretty much last, and that to me doesn't even make sense. She would have been having private appointments with her doctor pretty regularly since she was pregnant at the time. I just don't see how it was impossible to get any counselling when she needed it.

There's trouble ahead for their marriage if she's going to Harry last about personal problems. Her husband is who she should talk to first! I mean, if you feel like you can't talk to your spouse about an issue like that, you have really big problems.

 

[redrosesix]

I was with you until the last sentence. She never said it was impossible. She said she didn’t get it where she originally asked. And when you’re in that dark a place, there is a very good chance you need more than counseling.

And there are plenty on here questioning why she didn’t go to her mom. We don’t know that she didn’t. And there is a good chance she tried within HR first, even if it was the wrong place, because she was trying to follow what she thought was protocol.

I don’t find it odd she didn’t go to her husband first. I fell into PPD with my first and I didn’t know how to tell my DH I was struggling. And society has created this super mom mentality that there was shame that came with the way I was feeling. Now clearly that is anecdotal and would be just as wrong to assume my experience was at all hers.

I am not wading into anything else that was said during that interview here. I am strictly talking about mental health. And that we (me included) have to stop assuming that because we would handle it one way, it means that everybody else would. So people can rip her apart for everything else if they wish. But it is REALLY dangerous to judge somebody else’s mental health journey. None of us know.

well the simplest answer would be to go to the office where she arranged every single one of her medical appointments, not the office that represented her staff. And she did have a staff that was there to tell her everything she wanted to know.

And if she didn't want to go there, she could have talked to her GP or her OB. I don't know for certain, but in Canada the OBs are right on top of PPD -- they expect it so they're always checking in with you -- and I should think it would be the same in the UK.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

well the simplest answer would be to go to the office where she arranged every single one of her medical appointments, not the office that represented her staff. And she did have a staff that was there to tell her everything she wanted to know.

And if she didn't want to go there, she could have talked to her GP or her OB. I don't know for certain, but in Canada the OBs are right on top of PPD -- they expect it so they're always checking in with you -- and I should think it would be the same in the UK.

But now you’re putting what “regular people” are allowed to do on somebody who has to follow the right protocol, down to wearing nylons or not.

It can’t be both ways. That she has to follow all other protocols but can go ask whoever she feels like for help with mental illness, rumors and speculation be damned.

 

[neverlandsky]

I think the reason why some are questioning Meghan's mental health is due to the fact of her willingly wanting to go on tv for the world to see along with knowing that every single word would be dissected and analyzed worldwide including The RF. That's a heavy burden to take on. If Meghan was so fragile and overwhelmed, the last place she expected to be is airing her grievances worldwide while pregnant especially with suffering a miscarriage & mental health issues prior. Especially from a couple who claimed they wanted privacy. So I think a lot are trying to make heads and tails of it of it all, since it's one minute you distance yourselves from The RF claiming you want privacy, yet the next you're on tv worldwide with a tell-all. Makes a person go huh?

M&H sources say M&H feel Winfey's interview was cathartic. It does make me miss James Lipton and Larry King.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I know a number of you on this thread said you didn’t watch the interview, but it would have been helpful if you had because some of the things you’re questioning were answered there.

She tried multiple times, in multiple ways, to get help from the palace:

“In her interview with Oprah, the Duchess of Sussex said she went to one of the Palace institution's "most senior people" for support after experiencing thoughts of self-harm.

She didn't disclose who this person was, or their title.

"I went to the institution. And I said that I needed to go somewhere to get help," she said.

"I said, I never felt this way before and I need to go somewhere.

“I was told that I couldn’t. That it wouldn’t be good for the institution.”

She said it was after that conversation that she went to human resources asking for assistance, with no luck.

"I remember this conversation like it was yesterday, because they said, 'my heart goes out to you because I see how bad it is. But there's nothing we can do to protect you because you're not a paid employee of the institution'," she said.

"This wasn't a choice. This was emails and begging for help, saying very specifically, 'I am concerned for my mental welfare'.

"And people going, 'yes, yes, it's disproportionately terrible to what we see out there to anyone else', but nothing was ever done."

Ms Markle said she also asked to be released to seek help from medical professionals, but was told not to.

"You can't just do that, I couldn't just call an Uber to the Palace," she said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03...gham-palace-hr-mental-health-support/13230088
I don’t recall the timeline of how this all played out, but I do remember her saying she was hesitant to bring it up to Harry because of all the stress he already has to deal with. I got the impression she kept it from him for a while, and when she did finally tell him he wasn’t comfortable approaching his family about it:

“When Harry joined for his portion of the interview, he said “I went to a very dark place as well, but I wanted to be there for her.” And he added that he didn’t go to his family members to look for help for Meghan because “that’s not a conversation that would be had. I guess I was ashamed of admitting it to them. I don’t know whether they would have the same feelings or thoughts. It’s a very trapping environment that a lot of them are stuck in.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/03/meghan-markle-oprah-interview

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I’m going to drop it after this because I have a hard time with anybody questioning anybody else’s mental health.

But I’m to leave it with, it is really easy to Monday morning quarterback the situation - especially when you aren’t privy to all of the information and are making assumptions. It is easy to say what you would do. But unless you have been in a place that dark, you have NO idea what you’d actually do.

Maybe just maybe try to have a little empathy in case there is somebody reading this who is struggling and will likely now feel that much worse about it.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Just one example of how recollections may vary...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...n-markle-interview-prince-charles-sandringham

I have found this happens with my adult son sometimes, too. Never maliciously - he simply doesn’t remember things! He and his girlfriend will go to “new” places and eat ”new” foods and such and he’ll come back and announce how much he loved these “new things” even though we had clearly done them before, with plenty of photographic evidence.

Space cadets.

I don’t exactly remember everything from when I was a kid, either.

ETA Just thought of an example. So many times I tried to teach DS to cook. We’d start out, he’d look incredibly bored, then I’d turn around and he’d be gone! Lol. Now he willingly cooks with his girlfriend but acts like he was never taught to cook before! I think things just evolve with kids as they become more mature, and yes, recollections really can vary!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From the article linked above:

He told her [Oprah]: "I guess the highlight for me is sticking him [Archie] on the back of a bicycle in his little baby seat and taking him on bike rides which is something I was never able to do when I was young.

"I can sit him on the back and he's got his arms out and he's like 'whoah'."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another ”Harry Special”:

“When Harry was questioned by Today presenter Sarah Montague about his holidays, he revealed he and Meghan had stayed with William and Kate, who live in Anmer Hall in Norfolk, while visiting the queen at nearby Sandringham.

He said: “The family loved having here there… I think together we had an amazing time.

“We had great fun staying with my brother and sister-in-law and running round with the kids. Christmas was fantastic.”

The presenter asked the prince if there were any family traditions that had to be explained to Markle and he replied: “Oh plenty, I think we’ve got one of the biggest families that I know of, and every family is complex as well.

“No look, she’s done an absolutely amazing job. She’s getting in there and it’s the family I suppose that she’s never had.”

 

[Pea-n-Me]

As far as the mental health issue goes. I’d be willing to bet there would be very few here who would not be willing to help somone who was having a mental health crisis. Very few. We see every day examples of people risking their own lives to help others. Many of us are parents, caregivers, teachers, public servants and such and of course we would also go out of our way to help someone! Of course! (I read yesterday about a woman who saved another woman who was being assaulted by allowing her into her car and driving off to safety, much to her own peril - as just one example.)

So I don‘t think that one can judge how people really are based on some posts on a message board critiquing a very public figure who has shown herself to be a bit of a Chicken Little in the persona she chooses to share with the public. People think she’s cunning and insincere based on things she herself has said and done publicly (and they have that right to their opinion). Even now, here we have this completely incendiary interview this week designed to inflict as much damage as possible on Harry’s family, where she/they said that would be the end of their commentary about it. Yet now we see that several of her “spokespeople” continue to hound the press to reiterate why she’s right, completely tone deaf to how many are feeling about it. That’s why people don’t believe her, not because they’re cold-hearted, necessarily. A pp mentioned “the bigger picture” and she was spot on. We’ve all now watched an enormous wave of hurt of their doing which hasn’t let up and we’re growing tired of it. There are bigger fish to fry in our world, we don’t need to know every detail or perceived slight to these two incredibly spoiled and elitist individuals any further. This is where we all get to decide where we stand on the matter, whether they, or anyone else, likes it or not.

 

[Suger Mag]

As far as the mental health issue goes. I’d be willing to bet there would be very few here who would not be willing to help somone who was having a mental health crisis. Very few. We see every day examples of people risking their own lives to help others. Many of us are parents, caregivers, teachers, public servants and such and of course we would also go out of our way to help someone! Of course! (I read yesterday about a woman who saved another woman who was being assaulted by allowing her into her car and driving off to safety, much to her own peril - as just one example.)

So I don‘t think that one can judge how people really are based on some posts on a message board critiquing a very public figure who has shown herself to be a bit of a Chicken Little in the persona she chooses to share with the public. People think she’s cunning and insincere based on things she herself has said and done publicly (and they have that right to their opinion). Even now, here we have this completely incendiary interview this week designed to inflict as much damage as possible on Harry’s family, where she/they said that would be the end of their commentary about it. Yet now we see that several of her “spokespeople” continue to hound the press to reiterate why she’s right, completely tone deaf to how many are feeling about it. That’s why people don’t believe her, not because they’re cold-hearted, necessarily. A pp mentioned “the bigger picture” and she was spot on. We’ve all now watched an enormous wave of hurt of their doing which hasn’t let up and we’re growing tired of it. There are bigger fish to fry in our world, we don’t need to know every detail or perceived slight to these two incredibly spoiled and elitist individuals any further. This is where we all get to decide where we stand on the matter, whether they, or anyone else, likes it or not.

Oh yes you can judge...

Why not judge... you are all judging a couple you have never met and only read about... why is that exact same practice not fair game to the posters here?

Mean....endless name calling and insults.... questioning people's mental heath... being totally unempathetic...

Oh yeah I can judge.... I know that I dont think I would like many posters in real life based on how nasty they are online....

 

[mom2rtk]

That’s just it. We don’t really know. And that’s the problem with the Oprah interview. We’re left speculating. Did she get the help she needed? I hope so.

Because Oprah didn't ask. Or it wasn't included in the interview.

 

[Disneylover99]

I know a number of you on this thread said you didn’t watch the interview, but it would have been helpful if you had because some of the things you’re questioning were answered there.

She tried multiple times, in multiple ways, to get help from the palace:

“In her interview with Oprah, the Duchess of Sussex said she went to one of the Palace institution's "most senior people" for support after experiencing thoughts of self-harm.

She didn't disclose who this person was, or their title.

"I went to the institution. And I said that I needed to go somewhere to get help," she said.

"I said, I never felt this way before and I need to go somewhere.

“I was told that I couldn’t. That it wouldn’t be good for the institution.”

She said it was after that conversation that she went to human resources asking for assistance, with no luck.

"I remember this conversation like it was yesterday, because they said, 'my heart goes out to you because I see how bad it is. But there's nothing we can do to protect you because you're not a paid employee of the institution'," she said.

"This wasn't a choice. This was emails and begging for help, saying very specifically, 'I am concerned for my mental welfare'.

"And people going, 'yes, yes, it's disproportionately terrible to what we see out there to anyone else', but nothing was ever done."

Ms Markle said she also asked to be released to seek help from medical professionals, but was told not to.

"You can't just do that, I couldn't just call an Uber to the Palace," she said.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03...gham-palace-hr-mental-health-support/13230088
I don’t recall the timeline of how this all played out, but I do remember her saying she was hesitant to bring it up to Harry because of all the stress he already has to deal with. I got the impression she kept it from him for a while, and when she did finally tell him he wasn’t comfortable approaching his family about it:

“When Harry joined for his portion of the interview, he said “I went to a very dark place as well, but I wanted to be there for her.” And he added that he didn’t go to his family members to look for help for Meghan because “that’s not a conversation that would be had. I guess I was ashamed of admitting it to them. I don’t know whether they would have the same feelings or thoughts. It’s a very trapping environment that a lot of them are stuck in.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/03/meghan-markle-oprah-interview

I watched the interview and I understand nobody helped her at the palace. She made that part quite clear.

I just think the interview should have included if/how she finally got help. I think that’s a really important piece of the puzzle to help understand where she is coming from now.

 

[snappy]

I have found this happens with my adult son sometimes, too. Never maliciously - he simply doesn’t remember things! He and his girlfriend will go to “new” places and eat ”new” foods and such and he’ll come back and announce how much he loved these “new things” even though we had clearly done them before, with plenty of photographic evidence.

Space cadets.

I don’t exactly remember everything from when I was a kid, either.

ETA Just thought of an example. So many times I tried to teach DS to cook. We’d start out, he’d look incredibly bored, then I’d turn around and he’d be gone! Lol. Now he willingly cooks with his girlfriend but acts like he was never taught to cook before! I think things just evolve with kids as they become more mature, and yes, recollections really can vary!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From the article linked above:

He told her [Oprah]: "I guess the highlight for me is sticking him [Archie] on the back of a bicycle in his little baby seat and taking him on bike rides which is something I was never able to do when I was young.

"I can sit him on the back and he's got his arms out and he's like 'whoah'."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another ”Harry Special”:

“When Harry was questioned by Today presenter Sarah Montague about his holidays, he revealed he and Meghan had stayed with William and Kate, who live in Anmer Hall in Norfolk, while visiting the queen at nearby Sandringham.

He said: “The family loved having here there… I think together we had an amazing time.

“We had great fun staying with my brother and sister-in-law and running round with the kids. Christmas was fantastic.”

The presenter asked the prince if there were any family traditions that had to be explained to Markle and he replied: “Oh plenty, I think we’ve got one of the biggest families that I know of, and every family is complex as well.

“No look, she’s done an absolutely amazing job. She’s getting in there and it’s the family I suppose that she’s never had.”

Our older daughter was a very early talker, walker, reader, etc. Also precocious age 2-5 with doing daredevil stuff that I don’t want to even think about. (I only wish my memory would fail on this stuff). She clearly had a photographic memory for years. Fast forward, that memory doesn‘t seem as strong today, maybe more selective? She’s still incisive when curious about something, and her analytical skills surprise me. Not sure she remembers some of the daredevil stuff but we don’t go there. She remembers deceased loved ones who were important in her early life, and that is what I wish for her.

I imagine selective memory is pretty common among most of us, and I think Harry might have a healthy case of that too.

 

[Karin1984]

I watched the interview and I understand nobody helped her at the palace. She made that part quite clear.

I just think the interview should have included if/how she finally got help. I think that’s a really important piece of the puzzle to help understand where she is coming from now.

Not just that, the interview should have included the question: Where was your husband, your mother, your father-in-law? What did HR say or do that made her think she wasn't allowed to discuss this with anyone?

 

[VandVsmama]

I was with you until the last sentence. She never said it was impossible. She said she didn’t get it where she originally asked. And when you’re in that dark a place, there is a very good chance you need more than counseling.

And there are plenty on here questioning why she didn’t go to her mom. We don’t know that she didn’t. And there is a good chance she tried within HR first, even if it was the wrong place, because she was trying to follow what she thought was protocol.

I don’t find it odd she didn’t go to her husband first. I fell into PPD with my first and I didn’t know how to tell my DH I was struggling. And society has created this super mom mentality that there was shame that came with the way I was feeling. Now clearly that is anecdotal and would be just as wrong to assume my experience was at all hers.

I am not wading into anything else that was said during that interview here. I am strictly talking about mental health. And that we (me included) have to stop assuming that because we would handle it one way, it means that everybody else would. So people can rip her apart for everything else if they wish. But it is REALLY dangerous to judge somebody else’s mental health journey. None of us know.

I dealt with PPD, too, after the birth of my 2nd child. I was starting to have intrusive thoughts of hurting the baby. It was like a tape would start to play that I couldn't shut off. It was scary as hell. My DH was the 1st person I told. He called our midwife's office right away. They went into action and got me an appointment ASAP with a psychiatrist who had experience treating women with PPD. Instead of just standing there on the sidelines saying "I didn't know what to do!" Prince Harry should have manned up, stood up for his wife, and fought for her until she got the medical help she desperately needed. He totally & completely dropped the ball.

And since it happened once before (her suicidal ideation before the child's birth), then PPD is certainly a stronger possibility with the birth of this next child, especially since they've now got the added media stress (which they created, mind you) of being in this massive global media spotlight at the tail end of this pregnancy. I hope for their family's sake that PPD doesn't rear its head. Having a baby is hard enough. Trying to take care of an infant and a toddler while you also have PPD and/or postpartum anxiety is really really hard.

 

[snappy]

Could Oprah too have been gobsmacked by the news of Meghan’s suicidal feelings during her pregnancy, and was unprepared to do a full range of follow up questions that one would expect to ask if the interviewer was prepared? I have read quite a lot about the interview, since excerpts of the questions and answered are literally everywhere on the internet, and I think I read that Oprah started it off by clarifying that the questions weren’t shared before hand. Did Oprah also say no question was off the table? I can’t remember whether that was said or not.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Oh yes you can judge...

Why not judge... you are all judging a couple you have never met and only read about... why is that exact same practice not fair game to the posters here?

Mean....endless name calling and insults.... questioning people's mental heath... being totally unempathetic...

Oh yeah I can judge.... I know that I dont think I would like many posters in real life based on how nasty they are online....

Then you are doing the same thing you’re accusing others of doing. Just saying.

 

[Suger Mag]

Then you are doing the same thing you’re accusing others of doing. Just saying.

What an I accusing anyone of?

You made a comment about how we cannot judge people based on just wsat they write/post without knowing them personally. (I highlighted it in red and bolded it when I quoted you). I responded and asked why not.... as this is a thread about judging people that we do not personally know.

People make their posts. I assume they are comfortable with what they write. I am comfortable with what I write. I did not call out any specific poster. .. or at least I do not think I have. And yes, I also have put my opinions on various members of the royal family out there, I do not feel like I have been overly unkind to anyone, but I understand and am not crushed that people may not like me for whatever reason.

Over the last 155 pages.... People have called Harry and Meghan a lot of names. Mostly the same people over and over. it is not a mystery and I dont feel the need to point out specific examples... call out specific posters.... or as you say... accuse anyone. Not like they aren't all written down for everyone to see...

LOL... I have been on the DIS for awhile... this thread and many others have made me very aware there are lots of people who dont share my views and I would not like in real life. I am sure the feeling is mutual. Cie la vie.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

What an I accusing anyone of?

You made a comment about how we cannot judge people based on just wsat they write/post without knowing them personally. (I highlighted it in red and bolded it when I quoted you). I responded and asked why not.... as this is a thread about judging people that we do not personally know.

People make their posts. I assume they are comfortable with what they write. I am comfortable with what I write. I did not call out any specific poster. .. or at least I do not think I have. And yes, I also have put my opinions on various members of the royal family out there, I do not feel like I have been overly unkind to anyone, but I understand and am not crushed that people may not like me for whatever reason.

Over the last 155 pages.... People have called Harry and Meghan a lot of names. Mostly the same people over and over. it is not a mystery and I dont feel the need to point out specific examples... call out specific posters.... or as you say... accuse anyone. Not like they aren't all written down for everyone to see...

LOL... I have been on the DIS for awhile... this thread and many others have made me very aware there are lots of people who dont share my views and I would not like in real life. I am sure the feeling is mutual. Cie la vie.

Your posts aren’t even making sense at this point.

Mean....endless name calling and insults.... questioning people's mental heath... being totally unempathetic... nasty online

I‘ve also been on the Dis for a while and this thread is mild compared to some of the ones I’ve seen.

Let’s move on and agree to disagree.

The Sussexes love the attention. It helps their brand. And I hope Meghan gets the help that she needs.

 

[snappy]

I dealt with PPD, too, after the birth of my 2nd child. I was starting to have intrusive thoughts of hurting the baby. It was like a tape would start to play that I couldn't shut off. It was scary as hell. My DH was the 1st person I told. He called our midwife's office right away. They went into action and got me an appointment ASAP with a psychiatrist who had experience treating women with PPD. Instead of just standing there on the sidelines saying "I didn't know what to do!" Prince Harry should have manned up, stood up for his wife, and fought for her until she got the medical help she desperately needed. He totally & completely dropped the ball.

And since it happened once before (her suicidal ideation before the child's birth), then PPD is certainly a stronger possibility with the birth of this next child, especially since they've now got the added media stress (which they created, mind you) of being in this massive global media spotlight at the tail end of this pregnancy. I hope for their family's sake that PPD doesn't rear its head. Having a baby is hard enough. Trying to take care of an infant and a toddler while you also have PPD and/or postpartum anxiety is really really hard.

Yes, from experience with a very close family member, clinical depression which can often be in evidence during suicidal episodes doesn’t just go away, particularly if areas in one’s life that helped to precipitate the episode are repeated, like a third a pregnancy or new baby on top of a toddler in Meghan’s case. My family member had her episode 30 plus years ago. She has gone on to enjoy a wonderful marriage of over 20 years, but she still talks occasionally to the same psychiatrist that treated her in 1990.