Is DVC Getting too Big?

[Debbie H]

My guide states that DVC has allocated every room that they sell. So it does not get harder with more members..

I, for one, do not believe everything guides say. They are there to sell a product. It is a job to them. That's it! My ds bff was a guide and quit because he didn't like telling people what "they wanted to hear".

 

[BroganMc]

Of course it does. It doesn't become harder to book ANY room, but it becomes much harder to use the seven month window at the smaller resorts.

I bought into the program only last year so I have no real experience of the days of one big resort and 3 small ones.

I do think availability at 7 months will be the first to suffer as the membership grows. And I think the ones that will feel it most are the smaller resorts. This includes GCV as well as VWL, BWV, BCV and possibly CRV (assuming >400 rooms are released).

Most likely we'll see a two-tiered system of resorts: abundant real estate vs. boutique ownerships. VWL, BWV, BCV owners will probably be the most cheated since their ability to switch resorts easily will be a distant memory. AKV, SSR, OKW will have a more equal chance of bookings.

I'm not bothered by the building of new resorts, but do wish for a larger resort (500+ units) in areas with walking distance to theme parks. One such resort would probably alleviate most of the demand issues on the smaller resorts.

 

[mikesmom]

Most likely we'll see a two-tiered system of resorts: abundant real estate vs. boutique ownerships. VWL, BWV, BCV owners will probably be the most cheated since their ability to switch resorts easily will be a distant memory. AKV, SSR, OKW will have a more equal chance of bookings.

I am a BWV owner and I think just the opposite is true. I have way more ability to switch resorts as I book my home resort (BWV) early and then can switch to OKW or SSR fairly easily once the 7 month window opens. I believe it is a lot harder to switch IN to BWV and the other small resorts than it is to switch out. Whether by wisdom or dumb luck, this has worked out pretty well for us. Of the 3 smaller resorts, we bought into one (BWV), have no desire at all to use BCV, and after staying finally at VWL have decided that although we love the grounds and the lobby the rooms are a bit dark for our taste and will be happy to stick with BWV and OKW (where we also own).

That being said, there is a new grandson here and I assume in several years we will join the throngs of people trying to switch into BCV to get a crack at using SAB.

 

[Donna]

You are so right, it just isn't special anymore. We are using our points for other things now, even giving vacations for wedding presents, etc. We've been around long enough too to see the mistakes but I have found when I posted something on here, it was our fault, not DVC and even received a warning! Remember when you could call member services and they knew you by your name and not your number? You knew eveyone at the front desk and bell services and the Gurgling Suitcase and they knew you and were waiting when you arrived for a proper "Welcome Home"? People who bought in the past few years have no clue what it was like and how we would do anything to get that back. As I posted earlier, when we bought in early 92, we were told that it would be the only DVC on Disney property. That sucked us right in because then it really was "special".

Were you around when they planted "Clarry's Tree"?

NO...that is even before MY time!

Speaking of welcome home.....since buying our RV, which is why our vacation style has changed, we are now staying LONGER and at Ft. Wilderness. Anyways, my point is, on the bus coming back from one of the parks, as we pulled into Fort Wilderness, the recording on the bus says Welcome Home! I thought i was hearing things but every single time we rode the bus and came back to the Fort, we heard the same WELCOME HOME. I thought, huh, DVC isn't really so special anymore cause the fort is welcoming me home too, lol.

 

[Donna]

They haven't for a long time. When we bought in, we were told that there would never be another DVC on Disney grounds. Look what happened!

Do I think it has gotten too big? Yes, after they built the 2nd DVC on property and changed the Disney Vacation Club to Old Key West
Resort. Never have gotten over that!

I've never gotten over tearing down the Commodore House and wooden walkway and no more rocking chairs on the path! Also, i think DVC took on a change for the negative when they got away from the gated community type resort (OKW) and went to the "hotel type" resort (BWV). Just never felt as homey to me.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I have points from a Vero Beach contract that I have to use or lose for '07. I called yesterday at the 7 mos. mark, and I could reserve any type room at Boardwalk, even 2bdr. Boardwalk View. This was for the end of April. So, I know its off season somewhat, but that was a lot of inventory to choose from.

 

[spiceycat]

They haven't for a long time. When we bought in, we were told that there would never be another DVC on Disney grounds. Look what happened!

boy you certainly had a different guide. mind say Epcot area and one on the monrail back in 92.

this is not the guide I have now. this one was a man and he was very good. but when I dropped DVC that first time - he dropped me and I start with a new guide.

 

[crisi]

I have points from a Vero Beach contract that I have to use or lose for '07. I called yesterday at the 7 mos. mark, and I could reserve any type room at Boardwalk, even 2bdr. Boardwalk View. This was for the end of April. So, I know its off season somewhat, but that was a lot of inventory to choose from.

And there is a post up from someone who could only get SSR or OKW for her April dates - and is waitlisted for BWV and BCV. Availability can change fast once the seven month window opens.

 

[3DisneyKids]

NO...that is even before MY time!

Speaking of welcome home.....since buying our RV, which is why our vacation style has changed, we are now staying LONGER and at Ft. Wilderness. Anyways, my point is, on the bus coming back from one of the parks, as we pulled into Fort Wilderness, the recording on the bus says Welcome Home! I thought i was hearing things but every single time we rode the bus and came back to the Fort, we heard the same WELCOME HOME. I thought, huh, DVC isn't really so special anymore cause the fort is welcoming me home too, lol.

I actually started a thread about this a while back...all buses are now using "Welcome Home" as part of the new recording when the bus enters the resort gates....from the Values to the DVCs.

I was surpsied at the responses on that thread...most folks said that they didn't really care about the Welcome Homes.

My point was fairly simple...having that "Welcome Home" each time at your DVC resort is something that DVC can do for members that costs NOTHING yet makes members feel special. Why they would abandon a FREE "perk" is beyond me.

 

[J and R's mom]

I do think that DVC can get too big, especially if they build any more stand-alone DVC resorts like OKW or SSR (and I'm an SSR owner).

I hope that if the do add more DVC resorts to WDW, they are attached to the remaining deluxe resorts only.

 

[spiceycat]

I've never gotten over tearing down the Commodore House and wooden walkway and no more rocking chairs on the path! Also, i think DVC took on a change for the negative when they got away from the gated community type resort (OKW) and went to the "hotel type" resort (BWV). Just never felt as homey to me.

now I definitely agree. Also missed the music that was just here - despite the guides saying it would be all over DVC (OKW).

that say I also like BWV just to be able to walk to Epcot or Studios. It is definitely too busy for me.

what I miss the most was the great CM's that OKW use to have. Nothing was impossible for them. and they never blamed the DVC member when something went wrong. Now the staff seems to place everything on DVC member. the staff isn't (or they claim they are not) responsible for anything. Even when they do it wrong. - I really hate that.

my opinion, OKW needs new management and has for a while. Management that will take responsiblity and get the costs back under control.

as I say when I complained about the pool area in South pointe. one guy came to do the pool. around 10 (might have been more) came to the shurbs and landscaping. there is places where there isn't room for 10 people. This was silly and very, very expensive. Really missed the old days when one guy from landscaping would do both jobs - by HIMSELF. and be gone within an hour.

the more people that OKW sends out for a job - the longer it seems to take them.

I want the days back when OKW management and staff cared about the members.

also missed the little things. the stuff in the villa - the book, and extra pillows on the chairs.

 

[Anthony1971]

I think DVC will need to add resorts outside of Disney even if they have a harder time selling them. DVC will likely hit a wall at some point weather it be by the resale market being flooded with contracts of people who have outgrown Disney or by greatly reduced retail sales from people not willing to make a 50 year commitment to olny Disney . There are only X number of people who will go to Disney year after year for 50 years and for DVC to retain the large numbers of owners they need more options.
I can go either way in my opinion of it being to big already if they add outside resorts I say no if they stay in Disney only I say yes

 

[Maistre Gracey]

As others have said...if DVC goes value, I'm out.

Just out of curiosity.. Why??
I know several have said the same thing, but for whatever reason I clicked on your post to ask.

Anyway, you wouldn't have to use your points at the values, and if they wanted to use points at your home resort it would cost them more points.

I'm a tad confused why the Members would poo-poo the idea of a value DVC...

MG

 

[Mr Man]

I'm a new DVC owner and do not have the greater experience that most of the long term people posting here do. I do have a few observations.

1. Is it possible that some long term DVC members who have been staying at DVC resorts since it was a new program are simply bored with it now (having used it for years) and are looking for a reason to move on? Given that the average ownership time for DVC TS seems to around 4-5yrs or so (granted, lots of reasons for this), this seems reasonable to me.

As an example of what I am trying to express, the 1st house we bought years ago did not have a pool. Now, we have a pool and have had one for years. At first, our oldest child could not get enough of the pool (it was new after all ). Nowadays, having a pool is old hat......and there are more kids at our pool now(younger/louder/different). He wants something new now (and for us, it is the super slides at DVC resorts).


2. Change is inevitable, change is constant- Benjamin Disraeli. While I have only been viewing this board for the last 6-8 months, it does seem like every change that Disney announces is generally followed by a storm of discussion (some gnashing of teeth etc but mostly well reasoned discussion). After a while it all calms down and a new equilibrium is reached. I submit as examples, DDP for 2008 & New Banking rules.


3. As far as I can tell, DVC has consistently expanded from day one. I hope they continue to expand and give us more off-Disney choices. I have a hard time seeing the down-side to more choices/more amenities etc.

Just a few thoughts as a Noob and definitely not a criticism of anyone.

 

[crisi]

I think for some people it is getting old, and the changes are giving them an excuse to back out. But some have also seen changes stack on top of changes - and eventually, they don't have what they originally thought they'd bought.

For us, a big one is dining - doesn't have anything to do with DVC, but it is a factor in "will we keep our points." When we made "the Disney committment" we felt WDW had a wide variety of pretty decent restaurants. We still needed to make reservations for them, but we generally got what we wanted calling only a few weeks out. I figured we were likely to own DVC for a long time - we'd transition to golf and dinner once the kids outgrew parks. Over the past few years, dining has gotten more standardized, more expensive on cash, more crowded with the DDP, and the quality has not improved - it isn't ENJOYABLE anymore. NOW, because of the dining situation, I really don't want to golf Disney. If we stack that on top of more crowds, longer lines, aging children - Disney becomes a place I wouldn't make a committment to TODAY - but it hasn't gotten to the point where I'm ready to file for divorce or even seperate, but at this point we are together more for the kids.

 

[Sammie]

my opinion, OKW needs new management and has for a while. Management that will take responsiblity and get the costs back under control.

For that to happen you are going to have to go to the top of DVC and do the replacement. The management team at OKW has no control over costs.

 

[Mr Man]

I think for some people it is getting old, and the changes are giving them an excuse to back out. But some have also seen changes stack on top of changes - and eventually, they don't have what they originally thought they'd bought.

For us, a big one is dining - doesn't have anything to do with DVC, but it is a factor in "will we keep our points." When we made "the Disney committment" we felt WDW had a wide variety of pretty decent restaurants. We still needed to make reservations for them, but we generally got what we wanted calling only a few weeks out. I figured we were likely to own DVC for a long time - we'd transition to golf and dinner once the kids outgrew parks. Over the past few years, dining has gotten more standardized, more expensive on cash, more crowded with the DDP, and the quality has not improved - it isn't ENJOYABLE anymore. NOW, because of the dining situation, I really don't want to golf Disney. If we stack that on top of more crowds, longer lines, aging children - Disney becomes a place I wouldn't make a committment to TODAY - but it hasn't gotten to the point where I'm ready to file for divorce or even seperate, but at this point we are together more for the kids.

Thanks for your viewpoint. It is a lot clearer to me now. These are very good points & the 50yr marriage to Disney analogy is apt.

DW and I both agreed that DVC would be great for us while raising the kids (DS6 & DS1 currently). Once they are grown, we plan to "gift" our contracts to them so they can use them with their young families. If they don't want the contracts, we will sell them or use them for other vacations.

I can see a time 20-25yrs down the road where we will have had enough Disney (maybe sooner?). Who knows, by then maybe there will be a Disney park on the moon (WDM)?

 

[Donna]

now I definitely agree. Also missed the music that was just here - despite the guides saying it would be all over DVC (OKW).

that say I also like BWV just to be able to walk to Epcot or Studios. It is definitely too busy for me.

what I miss the most was the great CM's that OKW use to have. Nothing was impossible for them. and they never blamed the DVC member when something went wrong. Now the staff seems to place everything on DVC member. the staff isn't (or they claim they are not) responsible for anything. Even when they do it wrong. - I really hate that.

my opinion, OKW needs new management and has for a while. Management that will take responsiblity and get the costs back under control.

as I say when I complained about the pool area in South pointe. one guy came to do the pool. around 10 (might have been more) came to the shurbs and landscaping. there is places where there isn't room for 10 people. This was silly and very, very expensive. Really missed the old days when one guy from landscaping would do both jobs - by HIMSELF. and be gone within an hour.

the more people that OKW sends out for a job - the longer it seems to take them.

I want the days back when OKW management and staff cared about the members.

also missed the little things. the stuff in the villa - the book, and extra pillows on the chairs.

I hear ya! Let's go back to about......oh say.....5,000 members or so like it was when i joined. Everything was so much better, seems we were treated as "special" guests, not just a guest at wdw renting a hotel room. It seems now, they gouge us anywhere they can (i.e.,recent changes), the member cruise costs, for example, are ridiculous. People used to say "oh they got us, why do they have to "court" us and i used to say, oh no, dvc will never think that. How naive i was because that is what they think now for sure.

oh well, i will hold on to these 100 pts i have left (used to have 452) and use them here and there. Now, if DVC decides to build/add on at FORT WILDERNESS, yes, i will be one happy camper and would probably even ADD ON, lol.

 

[crisi]

DW and I both agreed that DVC would be great for us while raising the kids (DS6 & DS1 currently). Once they are grown, we plan to "gift" our contracts to them so they can use them with their young families. If they don't want the contracts, we will sell them or use them for other vacations.

My kids are eight and nine. In ten years they'll both be in college. And I hope there is a ten year gap (at least!) between college and having young families. We won't hang onto DVC for ten years simply so it can be used by our kids when they get to the point of having their own families. If there isn't that gap, I suspect they won't be in a position to afford Disney vacations.

We also have relatively few points - 150. Not a good contract for multiple families.

Now, its possible that we will hang onto our points. Our kids can use them for Spring Break trips and vacations when they get out of school. My nephews are quite a bit younger than my own kids - they'll still want trips and I can gift my points to them. And we DO golf. Disney has its ups and downs and its possible that the ups will continue to outweigh the downs for us. But when they don't, we will bail.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I hear ya! Let's go back to about......oh say.....5,000 members or so like it was when i joined.

I'm betting 5,000 wouldn't get you back very far.