Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[PuppyJonathan]

Not exactly sure on Ant-Man. I don't expect it to be as successful at GOTG tho. Marvel will be a focus on Anaheim. Star Wars will be a focus in WDW.

True, no one was expecting for Guardians to that well

 

[Josh Hendy]

The thing about Universal for me is that outside of a couple of great coasters (Hulk and RRR) and Harry Potter, the rides are mostly the same model - Minions, Spiderman, Transformers, Simpsons - you sit in a cart with 3D glasses and screens all around you and you really don't go anywhere. Kind of boring.

It would be like if half the rides at WDW were Soarin' with different visuals. That's why Universal will probably always be a one-day thing for us.

This is an inaccurate and very incomplete description of the Universal parks. Try the excellent water rides (Dudley Doright, Popeye's Barges, Jurassic Park) next time you visit. Or the dark rides like ET, Cat in the Hat or Men in Black. Not to mention the Harry Potter rides (three of them) or Revenge of the Mummy. None of these are "3D rides that don't go anywhere", none of them are clones or copies of other rides, and all of them are as good or better than the similar rides at WDW.

 

[DetroitDisney]

Didnt read this whole thread, but to address the speed of construction statements:

Harry Potter was built fairly quickly (3yrs) which is often compared to huge development cycles for smaller Disney projects. What people dont factor in is that Harry Potter was being built during the economic crisis. During this time, there were hordes of unemployed construction workers and tradesmen, which allowed Universal to have a large amount of (slightly) cheaper workforce.

Fast forward to today and there arent available tradesmen in most parts of the country. This pushes up the costs and timelines for any project.

Not trying to give Disney a free pass, but its a fact that Universal was building during literally the best possible time to be working on a MASSIVE construction project.

 

[StarWarsJez]

I think that's what people don't see. It's also competition that makes things better. Universal is trying to get a business share from Disney while Disney is trying to get a buisness share from Universal. These efforts are what make things better for customers. I think if either one was a "Sole" park/theme then there wouldn't be as much improvements (now-a-days) as there are.


Sorry, I know it's a fat fingers/fast typing thing but I had to read that 3 times to figure it out. Me thinks you meant: It's kind of sad when you know how great they could be - if they really needed to be!

Just had to laugh (okay and poke fun) at it.

Haha yes you're right, iphone keyboard and fat fingers

 

[CTDisneyfan816]

Universal, as much as I love both parks, still draws substantially less than Disney

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

Didnt read this whole thread, but to address the speed of construction statements:

Harry Potter was built fairly quickly (3yrs) which is often compared to huge development cycles for smaller Disney projects. What people dont factor in is that Harry Potter was being built during the economic crisis. During this time, there were hordes of unemployed construction workers and tradesmen, which allowed Universal to have a large amount of (slightly) cheaper workforce.

Fast forward to today and there arent available tradesmen in most parts of the country. This pushes up the costs and timelines for any project.

Not trying to give Disney a free pass, but its a fact that Universal was building during literally the best possible time to be working on a MASSIVE construction project.

Disney could have taken the same opportunity to build during that crisis, but they chose to shutter attractions instead. My understanding is that Disney wants to add Star Wars to DHS, but hasn't been able to come up with a plan that the board likes, so they don't have much to announce at D23. They may announce Athens Pixar Place expansion instead, but I think people will be disappointed if it doesn't include some version of RSR. Pandora is about 8 months behind schedule.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I understand I guess my point is they could spread it out better instead of doing these construction booms. AK, DTD, DHS, Epcot all have projects going on at the same time. The DHS projects have been pushed off for three years already.

So now they are expanding too much?

That's like saying-if they had just built the 1989 to 1999 expansion from 1989 to 2005 or 2010-we would have been a lot happier? Why would that be?

To me its not very relevant. Construction booms are fine with me-but so is some normal downtime when complete.

I had no problem with 10 years of expansion, followed by 10 years of just being open to the public. Even then, Soarin/EE/TSM/BCV/VWL/SSR/AKV all opened.

There wasn't a lot between MK and EPCOT, or EPCOT and MGM either. Then again there wasn't the internet to sit and pretend we had a clue what this success juggernaut "should" have done if we were in charge.

I see a very good chance of looking back at the 2010 to 2020 expansion-and hearing the complaints about 2020 to 2030 with so little expansion.

 

[rteetz]

So now they are expanding too much?

That's like saying-if they had just built the 1989 to 1999 expansion from 1989 to 2005 or 2010-we would have been a lot happier? Why would that be?

To me its not very relevant. Construction booms are fine with me-but so is some normal downtime when complete.

I had no problem with 10 years of expansion, followed by 10 years of just being open to the public. Even then, Soarin/EE/TSM/BCV/VWL/SSR/AKV all opened.

There wasn't a lot between MK and EPCOT, or EPCOT and MGM either. Then again there wasn't the internet to sit and pretend we had a clue what this success juggernaut "should" have done if we were in charge.

I see a very good chance of looking back at the 2010 to 2020 expansion-and hearing the complaints about 2020 to 2030 with so little expansion.

No they aren't expanding too much, but it is a lot at once. All the expanding they are doing is needed. I highly doubt we ever see the boom like we did in the 80s happen again. You had multiple parks, hotels, water parks etc all built in that time. However during the down times they should be refurbing attractions and sprucing things up and then you have your eventual boom again.

 

[Dfan79]

I'd be alright with them doing an expansion at just one park (that is not Magic). As long as they finish it before there are flying cars. Turtles are laughing at Disney.

 

[DetroitDisney]

Disney could have taken the same opportunity to build during that crisis, but they chose to shutter attractions instead. My understanding is that Disney wants to add Star Wars to DHS, but hasn't been able to come up with a plan that the board likes, so they don't have much to announce at D23. They may announce Athens Pixar Place expansion instead, but I think people will be disappointed if it doesn't include some version of RSR. Pandora is about 8 months behind schedule.

Nobody in their right mind would be spending during an economic collapse. Disney, like everyone was trying to keep things in the green.

The ONLY reason that Universal built Harry Potter was because they were already obligated to numerous contracts and it was already announced to the public. If the economic collapse happened a couple years earlier, we might just be getting Harry Potter now.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

Nobody in their right mind would be spending during an economic collapse. Disney, like everyone was trying to keep things in the green.

The ONLY reason that Universal built Harry Potter was because they were already obligated to numerous contracts and it was already announced to the public. If the economic collapse happened a couple years earlier, we might just be getting Harry Potter now.

You stated Universal took advantage of a weakened market to build at a lower price. Disney also had plans in place to expand Pop Century. They decided to walk away from the project and left half completed buildings to sit for years.

Disney did however, announce that they would expand FL in 2009. Weren't we still in a recession?

 

[dinolounger]

I really think you are underestimating it.

I disagree: simulators with broad multi-axis motion capability are not new and are already up and running in Orlando at an attraction called the Forbidden Journey.

This is the rumored system they are supposed to be using

With all due respect, rumors are dime a dozen and are most often off or completely wrong. The only facts we have about Avatarland at this point is (a) it's behind schedule and (b) is apparently going to consist of just two attractions.

Frankly, what's increasingly amusing in this forum is how the Disney-can-do-no-wrong cheerleaders keep betting the farm on concepts that are either not even confirmed (Star Wars) or are evolving at a snail's pace and are only being articulated at the generalized conceptual level.

 

[rteetz]

With all due respect, I disagree: simulators with broad multi-axis motion capability are not new and are already up and running in Orlando at an attraction called the Forbidden Journey.

With all due respect, rumors are dime a dozen and are most often off or completely wrong. The only facts we have about Avatarland at this point is (a) it's behind schedule and (b) is apparently going to consist of just two attractions.

Frankly, what's increasingly amusing in this forum is how the Disney-can-do-no-wrong cheerleaders keep betting the farm on concepts that are either not even confirmed (Star Wars) or are evolving at a snail's pace and are only being articulated at the generalized conceptual level.

It's not behind schedule and b is is correct. That rumor of it being behind schedule was started by Jim hill. I by no means am a Disney can do no wrong guy if you think I am I suggest you go look at some of my previous posts and threads. Disney can, will and has done wrong that is a fact. It's a fact Star Wars will happen we just don't know when. I only pass rumors from credible sources, Jim Hill is not one of those.

 

[Planogirl]

I disagree: simulators with broad multi-axis motion capability are not new and are already up and running in Orlando at an attraction called the Forbidden Journey.

With all due respect, rumors are dime a dozen and are most often off or completely wrong. The only facts we have about Avatarland at this point is (a) it's behind schedule and (b) is apparently going to consist of just two attractions.

Frankly, what's increasingly amusing in this forum is how the Disney-can-do-no-wrong cheerleaders keep betting the farm on concepts that are either not even confirmed (Star Wars) or are evolving at a snail's pace and are only being articulated at the generalized conceptual level.

I'm far from a Disney cheerleader but good reliable sources have confirmed some type of Star Wars addition. Of course that is subject to change and I would actually bet on the snail if there was a race involved.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

You stated Universal took advantage of a weakened market to build at a lower price. Disney also had plans in place to expand Pop Century. They decided to walk away from the project and left half completed buildings to sit for years.

Disney did however, announce that they would expand FL in 2009. Weren't we still in a recession?

The problem is the current leadership has no vision or forward thinking. Everything is reactionary and attempts to move without risk. They've increased profits simply by buying successful franchises and by charging more and not through significant growth of your core business.

I realize that Universal is still behind Disney in attendance but I firmly believe these changes are in direct response to what Universal has done and what they are rumored to be doing in the future.

 

[tjkraz]

Then what do you call the period between ~2000 and 2015, in which the only "substantial" addition throughout any of the parks over this 15-year period was NFL (which is arguably mediocre at best...

Probably need to narrow your focus a bit. 2005 brought Soarin, Stitch and Lights Motors Action. 2006 Everest. The next couple of years featured Toy Story Mania, Monsters Inc and a few others.

The dry spell has been closer to 5-6 years. Over that time WDW did invest but probably spent too much on existing attractions rather than something new. Star Tours, Test Track, 3 Caballeros, Seas with Nemo, Spaceship Earth, Dumbo expansion, Tiki Room...all received nice enhancements but hard to compare to an entirely new experience.

As for the Universal vs WDW construction timelines, the disparity is probably not as great as some would like to believe.

Wizarding World: Announcement May 2007; Opening June 2010 (37 months)
WWoHP Phase 2: Announcement Dec 2011; Opening July 2014 (31 months)
New Fantasyland: Announcement Sept 2009; Opening Dec 2012 (39 months)

(Mine Train obviously did open later. Anyone following the situation knows that it was a very late addition, not even on the drawing table at the original announcement. But everything else including the Storybook Circus additions & re-theming, Little Mermaid, Belle and BOG were open within those 39 months--Storybook Circus was complete within 34 months.)

Avatar has has a MUCH longer timeline but that appears to be the outlier. Plus we've been teased with Star Wars for at least 2 years now--and some Pixar addition to DHS for much longer--with nothing to show for it.

Star Wars is the big domino to fall right now. If Disney announces big plans at D23, suddenly things will be looking pretty good for 'ole WDW.

 

[rteetz]

Probably need to narrow your focus a bit. 2005 brought Soarin, Stitch and Lights Motors Action. 2006 Everest. The next couple of years featured Toy Story Mania, Monsters Inc and a few others.

The dry spell has been closer to 5-6 years. Over that time WDW did invest but probably spent too much on existing attractions rather than something new. Star Tours, Test Track, 3 Caballeros, Seas with Nemo, Spaceship Earth, Dumbo expansion, Tiki Room...all received nice enhancements but hard to compare to an entirely new experience.

As for the Universal vs WDW construction timelines, the disparity is probably not as great as some would like to believe.

Wizarding World: Announcement May 2007; Opening June 2010 (37 months)
WWoHP Phase 2: Announcement Dec 2011; Opening July 2014 (31 months)
New Fantasyland: Announcement Sept 2009; Opening Dec 2012 (39 months)

(Mine Train obviously did open later. Anyone following the situation knows that it was a very late addition, not even on the drawing table at the original announcement. But everything else including the Storybook Circus additions & re-theming, Little Mermaid, Belle and BOG were open within those 39 months--Storybook Circus was complete within 34 months.)

Avatar has has a MUCH longer timeline but that appears to be the outlier. Plus we've been teased with Star Wars for at least 2 years now--and some Pixar addition to DHS for much longer--with nothing to show for it.

Star Wars is the big domino to fall right now. If Disney announces big plans at D23, suddenly things will be looking pretty good for 'ole WDW.

Even with those additions it was a slow period. Soarin came from DCA and nothing has been done to Epcot since. Nothing has been done to AK since Everest either but 2017 will change that of course. That is still 11 years with nothing. I think we can all agree that stitch was not the best addition. Three caballeros meh... Many think the SSE refurb wasn't for the better. If we get the big announcement Epcot will still be lacking depending on what they use the 300 million slated for the park for.

 

[rteetz]

The problem is the current leadership has no vision or forward thinking. Everything is reactionary and attempts to move without risk. They've increased profits simply by buying successful franchises and by charging more and not through significant growth of your core business.

I realize that Universal is still behind Disney in attendance but I firmly believe these changes are in direct response to what Universal has done and what they are rumored to be doing in the future.

Based on what I've heard the DHS expansion is not in response to Universal but because DHS is just getting to the point of really needing it.

 

[North of Mouse]

Disney will always be Disney - no comparison to Universal or any other park. How many families with young children will ever hear their little ones say they want to go to Universal? No, it's Mickey Mouse and the Princesses and Princes!

Disney has the golden egg and they know it - also, even though they keep raising prices while giving less, you can hardly find reservations when you want them!

We would never make the trip to go to Universal over Disney even though we are going less and less.

 

[tjkraz]

Even with those additions it was a slow period.

In terms of volume, it's been a slow 5-6 years...not a slow 15 years.

Here's a more complete list of new additions (and major re-themes) from approximately 2000 - 2008: Mission Space, Soarin, Lights, Motors, Action, Toy Story Mania, Expedition Everest, Mickey's Philharmagic, Primeval Whirl, Triceratop Spin, Finding Nemo: The Musical, Monster's Inc Laugh Floor, Turtle Talk, Seas with Nemo & Friends, Stitch's Great Escape, Playhouse Disney, One Man's Dream, American Idol, Kim Possible / Phineas & Ferb.

If WDW had added at least 2 new attractions per year to its parks over the last 5 years--with at least 2-3 of them being "D" or "E" tickets--we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Soarin came from DCA...

So? Was it not a worthwhile addition to the park?