Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[rteetz]

I think the difference in building schedules is being distorted. In the past 10 years, WDW has opened 6 new attractions: Lights Motors Action!, Soarin', Everest, Midway Mania, Little Mermaid, and the Mine Train. And they have updated many others. Universal has opened 5 new rides: the Suess Trolley, Rip Tide Rockit, Forbidden Journey, Transformers, and Hogwarts Express. Plus they took out Jaws and added Gringotts and updated some others.

I think these things even out over time.

And as someone mentioned, too many Universal rides spin or throw you around. I took my family to Universal in 2013 and we bought a three day pass, but while we enjoyed Harry Potter, neither my kids or my wife wanted to go back on the third day. They wanted to go back to WDW. And they went back to WDW in 2024 and again in 2015.

Three of those rides added to WDW were copies from DLR and DLP.

 

[rteetz]

It wouldn't be hard to take out the little shop to the east of Gaston's Tavern and the bathrooms to the north and open up a walkway to the area to the north of NFL, if they wanted.

Disney can do anything if they really want to, it's just if they want to or not especially when it comes to what the best return is.

 

[thiee]

It wouldn't be hard to take out the little shop to the east of Gaston's Tavern and the bathrooms to the north and open up a walkway to the area to the north of NFL, if they wanted.

Only problem with that is its shoehorning that really in there. It would be like a hidden closet inside of a closet. I think MK expansion all about done but the other parks expansion is way more viable.

 

[rteetz]

Only problem with that is its shoehorning that really in there. It would be like a hidden closet inside of a closet. I think MK expansion all about done but the other parks expansion is way more viable.

Tomorrowland and frontierland have expansion pads that could possibly be used in the future.

 

[thiee]

Tomorrowland and frontierland have expansion pads that could possibly be used in the future.

Problem is I have never seen disney do an expansion beyond back stages and service roads. Not that it isn't possible but doesn't seem anything would fit there and the fireworks launch site is right there. Only expansion area viable would be to the left of space mountain but they would have a hard time hiding that from the back service roads.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

Thoughts since last time:

DHS was slapped together when it was built

Well keep in mind it wasn't really supposed to be a park-park. It was supposed to be like Universal in Hollywood with a small ride section but the rest dedicated to filmmaking

The new DHS will not have marvel.

It could... This one only time will tell

Problem is disney builds facade fronts with plain building backs that the reason nothing indoors would ever fit into the speedway unless it was a 360 ride attraction.

Uh... Forbidden Journey? Poseidon's Fury? Gringotts from the extended queue?
My personal favorite:

We have a local park here (Knoebels) which hasn't changed most of their rides in a LONG time. They do occasionally add one or replace another, but it's still very enjoyable. I don't need to go to a park (either locally or to WDW) and have it changed every time I go. I find it funny that as much as people want it to change, I hear just as many complaints from people that it DID change.

This is very true. Whenever I past went I couldn't even manage to do everything I wanted to do! In one way adding more than manageable just adds to my to do list! I do want to see some love added however

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Three of those rides added to WDW were copies from DLR and DLP.

Sure, but Universal has been cloning rides too. Transformers was opened at another park prior to opening in Florida.

 

[rteetz]

Problem is I have never seen disney do an expansion beyond back stages and service roads. Not that it isn't possible but doesn't seem anything would fit there and the fireworks launch site is right there. Only expansion area viable would be to the left of space mountain but they would have a hard time hiding that from the back service roads.

If Disney would really want to expand MK they would find ways to do it. Obviously they don't want to right now but they could in the future.

 

[rteetz]

Sure, but Universal has been cloning rides too. Transformers was opened at another park prior to opening in Florida.

That's 1 vs. 3

 

[rteetz]

Thoughts since last time:

Well keep in mind it wasn't really supposed to be a park-park. It was supposed to be like Universal in Hollywood with a small ride section but the rest dedicated to filmmaking

It could... This one only time will tell

Uh... Forbidden Journey? Poseidon's Fury? Gringotts from the extended queue?
My personal favorite:

This is very true. Whenever I past went I couldn't even manage to do everything I wanted to do! In one way adding more than manageable just adds to my to do list! I do want to see some love added however

I am well aware of the back story of DHS. Many are unaware that Disney and universal almost partnered together for a studios park in Florida. That was until Eisner came to power.

As for marvel, no thing marvel will be coming to DHS for the foreseeable future. The only thing that could right now is guardians of the galaxy but that's unlikely at this point.

 

[Kimosabe]

We're would it be built in fantasyland?? And it's not a Pixar or lucas films movie which is what the studios is headed more towards.

I'm on the bandwagon of moving Small World and Carousel of Progress to Epcot, which would provide some much-needed help to Epcot without too much effort (relatively speaking) and open up two prime spots in Fantasyland (for Frozen) and Tomorrowland (for whatever could go there). I realize the Frozen ship has sailed, so the Frozen-to-MK idea is just a pipe dream, but they could still move those two attractions to Epcot, where they would fit perfectly into the classic World's Fair feel of Epcot and allow room to "expand" at MK within its existing space. Everybody wins.

 

[rteetz]

I'm on the bandwagon of moving Small World and Carousel of Progress to Epcot, which would provide some much-needed help to Epcot without too much effort (relatively speaking) and open up two prime spots in Fantasyland (for Frozen) and Tomorrowland (for whatever could go there). I realize the Frozen ship has sailed, so the Frozen-to-MK idea is just a pipe dream, but they could still move those two attractions to Epcot, where they would fit perfectly into the classic World's Fair feel of Epcot and allow room to "expand" at MK within its existing space. Everybody wins.

CoP maybe but I think Small World should stay it fits well in fantasyland and is in fantasyland in every other Disney park.

 

[thiee]

CoP maybe but I think Small World should stay it fits well in fantasyland and is in fantasyland in every other Disney park.

Small world will never go anywhere and nor should it. It arguably the most nostalgic disney ride in the world. People who have never been even know of it.

 

[mcd2745]

As an answer to the title of this thread (and maybe this has been mentioned, as I haven't read through the whole thread)...I think WDW, Universal, the cruise industry, and all other tourist destinations are going to be "screwed" if airfare continues to be where it is lately.

 

[dinolounger]

As an answer to the title of this thread (and maybe this has been mentioned, as I haven't read through the whole thread)...I think WDW, Universal, the cruise industry, and all other tourist destinations are going to be "screwed" if airfare continues to be where it is lately.

Point taken and really should have been part of the discussion on the recent "Is Disney pricing out the middle class?" thread. That would have broadened the discussion to underscore the fact that it's not just inflation in the Disney pricing that is likely becoming a barrier to visits, it's air carrier practices like yield management, charging passengers for services like luggage checking and meals that used to be free and consolidation among carriers which lessens competition. All those elements are making vacations requiring airfare less and less affordable to a growing segment of the population.

Cruise lines have been attacking this for over a decade by acting as air consolidators, buying up big blocks of seats at a discount and then using them to "soften the blow" of getting to Miami or whatever port. But most land based destinations haven't taken same tact.

 

[Planogirl]

I have two little Disney fans, and I've more or less converted my husband in that last decade. Both my kids would like to live at WDW. We own DVC, we go to WDW every year, sometimes more than once a year. Neither my kids nor my husband hover on message boards reading about how much hasn't changed, or hasn't changed fast enough. Yes, DH has been known to wonder "aren't they done with that yet?", but really, even going every year, WDW still has a lot to offer. And I still manage to plan something new for them to try every single trip.

MK has more than enough to entertain us. DS (age 10) will tell you that he does not care about the NFL additions at all, although in actuality he has enjoyed most of it (although he refuses to do ETwB.) DD (age 4) absolutely loves everything about NFL. Everything. The must do areas in MK for my kids are Adventureland and New Fantasyland.

DHS was actually on the "eh, skip it" list for us for several trips. The only thing both kids could and wanted to ride was TSSMM, and before FP+ we were never there early enough to get FPs. As of this year, they can both do Star Tours, too, which helps make it a more fun park for them. DS liked the Playhouse Disney/Disney Junior show when he was little, and now DD likes it, and they both like the VotLM. They both like the playground. That's about the list of the things the kids wanted to do. FP+ actually put DHS back on our list for our trips, but even so, it's a short day for us. This is the one park that I agree should be an embarrassment to Disney. I am so glad they have a new vision for it, and are going to pump a lot of money into it. It needs it desperately.

Epcot was my favorite park before I had kids. However, the Epcot with truly amazing food and plenty of non thrill rides of my memories is long gone. (I still miss Horizons and the World of Motion. I do not miss Body Wars, which inevitably made me sick.) The kids don't have the patience for an afternoon wandering through shops and looking at displays in WS. But they love "the Nemo pavilion" and both rides in the Land, and they'll put up with Ellen for dinosaurs, and they've come to accept that Mommy is going to make them go on Spaceship Earth every single time we go to Epcot. And, for some reason, they love the Grand Fiesta Three Cabelleros boat ride in Mexico, which no one ever talks about as an addition of the last decade, but is far more engaging than Rio del Tiempo. (Although the last times we rode it, my kids were the only kids around and EVERYONE else was drunk adults. Go figure.) They are both looking forward to the Frozen Maelstrom. Making them pick between FP+ for Frozen and Soarin' is going to be a nightmare, however. My husband and kids like Epcot. We still find more than enough to do. It certainly isn't the embarrassment that DHS is (except for Captain EO, my gosh, just get rid of it permanently), even if it could benefit from some updates. Honestly, if they would either add a new "country" with a ride, or put a solid new ride in any of the existing countries, and redo one of the currently defunct pavilions using the Inside Out characters, I think almost everyone would be happy. (Ok, they are never going to make almost everyone happy, who am I kidding? But it would please many people.)

Animal Kingdom is already on the right track. We're really looking forward to the new nighttime safari and show. We can't wait to see what they do with Pandora/ Avatar. (The movie was fine. The setting is gorgeous. I am sure it is going to be a beautiful addition to the park.) I still wish they'd add Australia, or even the Americas, as a new land. My daughter wishes that the Pocahontas meet and greet would get FP+ because I won't wait in line with her for 45 minutes outside in the heat.

WDW is still wonderful to my family. I'm not someone who is happy about every decision they'd made about the parks. I'm not someone who thinks they can do no wrong. However, I do think they provide a solid experience overall, and that many of the projects currently underway will be good additions.

That said, we went to Universal for the first time a year ago. After hearing about how they weren't good for young kids for so long, we decided to try it out anyway, because we wanted to see Harry Potter. My kids LOVED Universal. (They did not love being woken at dawn to get dragged at a breakneck pace through a park they'd never seen to get in line for ollivanders, and then forbidden journey (which neither of them were going to ride.)) Universal may not have been good for young kids at some time in the past, but that is just not true any more. My kids liked their 2 days at Universal as much as WDW. DS doesn't like thrill rides, DD is too little for many thrill rides, and they still had an amazing time. Honestly, people who are telling you there is nothing at either Universal Studios park for kids have clearly not taken kids. The Barney, Dr Seuss, Curious George, and American Tail areas are NOT aimed at adults, let me assure you. Both Universal Parks were great. My kids want to go back, and we're tentatively planning to next year.

Disney lost two days of our business last year, and they're probably losing two days of it next year. That's a pattern that's going to continue to be true. Every year or every other year, we'll probably spend a couple of days at Universal. That's a function of how good Universal is now, not a function of "how bad" Disney is. It isn't that Disney has lost our business, its that Universal has won a bit of it.

Did you somehow read my mind when you wrote this post? My only caveat is my complete loathing for the Frozen thing but then I don't have small kids. I can more than understand why kids would be excited.

 

[Planogirl]

Very debatable as a person who has traveled to Norway and has several friends there. Movie inspired vs attraction with folklore trolls, just cause it's there doesn't mean it's perfect representstion. Most Americans couldn't begin to tell you were Norway is located. Grand fiesta tour is a perfect representstion of Mexico. Prime example

I have Norwegian family members and trolls are well represented in culture. Also there were certainly Vikings and there are still oil platforms nearby.

 

[dinolounger]

Disney has something no one else has: the brand. There is history and nostalgia and an indescribable SOMETHING that keeps luring people, across generations, to relive experiences from their past.

Their past?

A great man named George Santayana once said something very important about the past, specifically

"Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it"

And speaking of brands, one of the economic laws from history is that even the greatest brands can miss/ forget a critical history lesson, which is that great brands which rest on their laurels tend to fall and fall hard.

Here is a list of such firms, ones with those iconic "something else that no one has" brands which still made that deadly mistake:

Readers Digest (yes, still breathing -- in fact the only one on this list that still is -- but is like a cancer patient who has had a lung, arm and leg removed)

Blockbuster

Woolworth

RCA (no, it is not still in business, the brand name is only visible now through licensing deals with firms that use it to sell cheap, disposable electronics).

TWA

Pan Am (a storied, truly iconic brand that many still deeply miss, which has fostered numerous unsuccessful attempts to resuscitate it)

Montgomery Ward (case study for Disney -- was best in class, invented Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer and had enviable customer loyalty - then lost it all)

American Motors

Bethlehem Steel

Compaq

Tower Records (no, this demise wasn't just due to Itunes...)

Paine Webber

General Foods (example of what happens when an innovative, customer-focused firm stops innovating and ignores changes in consumer tastes)

Polaroid

Zenith (this firm whose slogan was "the quality goes in before the name goes on" is arguably one of the most striking examples of how the great can fail)

Borders

The Sharper Image (same situation as RCA, brand name still visible via licensing to sellers of junk, but the company is gone)

 

[dinolounger]

Universal has been cloning rides too. Transformers was opened at another park prior to opening in Florida.

Yes, it first opened in Universal Singapore, which is where I first rode it. It's slightly bigger, longer and definitely louder than the one in Orlando.

 

[Peaseblossom]

The thing about Universal for me is that outside of a couple of great coasters (Hulk and RRR) and Harry Potter, the rides are mostly the same model - Minions, Spiderman, Transformers, Simpsons - you sit in a cart with 3D glasses and screens all around you and you really don't go anywhere. Kind of boring.

It would be like if half the rides at WDW were Soarin' with different visuals. That's why Universal will probably always be a one-day thing for us.