Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[Eoghann]

I'm not sure anything but Star Wars is going to be able to compete with HP and that's only if it doesn't get the typical Orlando half done treatment. Pandora may look nice but it doesn't have the same wide appeal. Combine that with the fact you're getting Soarin over Pandora and Davey Crocket visits Pandora and it has a 50/50 shot at impressing or disappointing.

Pandora doesn't need to "compete" with HP. It has a different business function to fill. What it (and the other elements being added) need to do is extend park hours and change the common image of AK as a "half-day park."

 

[Bolt4Life17]

I don't like the people that go to Universal. Disney is my happy bubble. However, I still say that I have only gone to Universal Hollywood since I live in So-Cal, but everytime I go there are little wanna be gangbangers everywhere compared to Disneyland. Maybe Florida is different. I have season passes to Universal Hollywood and I can't stand the clientele every-time I go.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Random question.... We've avoided Universal so far because our daughter is only 4, and neither my husband or myself are Harry Potter fans. We don't dislike HP, it's just never been my thing. We are more Star Wars, LOTR, Star Trek people. So- is there a lot to do at Universal if you get motion sickness? I can't do Star Tours and even EE makes me queasy. Maybe I'm wrong, but Universal seems geared towards older/taller children and thrill rides. Am I incorrect in this assumption?

The attractions at Universal definitely spin and toss you around more than the ones at Disney.

 

[Eoghann]

I don't like the people that go to Universal. Disney is my happy bubble. However, I still say that I have only gone to Universal Hollywood since I live in So-Cal, but everytime I go there are little wanna be gangbangers everywhere compared to Disneyland. Maybe Florida is different. I have season passes to Universal Hollywood and I can't stand the clientele every-time I go.

Universal Orlando is mostly families like Disney World. It may skew a little more towards teen but there certainly aren't any roving thugs.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Pandora doesn't need to "compete" with HP. It has a different business function to fill. What it (and the other elements being added) need to do is extend park hours and change the common image of AK as a "half-day park."

It's about trying to keep people from going other places. The half day thing only matters if you think people are skipping it to go somewhere else. If that's the case then your competing for the dollar.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

It's not soarin over Pandora nor is it Dalvey cricket visits Pandora. From the looks of it the banshee attraction will be more than just another soarin, and the new boat ride looks to be using the same new tech in the Shanghai pirates ride.

We'll see. It's going to completely depend on the show. I'm not sure tilting and shaking is really going to make that much more of an amazing experience. I certainly hope I'm wrong but I don't gave a lot of faith in the Orlando leadership team to really follow through with amazing ideas.

 

[rteetz]

We'll see. It's going to completely depend on the show. I'm not sure tilting and shaking is really going to make that much more of an amazing experience. I certainly hope I'm wrong but I don't gave a lot of faith in the Orlando leadership team to really follow through with amazing ideas.

This is being head up by Joe Rohde. I don't put my faith into many in Disney but I do out it in him. I'm not a big fan of avatar the movie but I really think this land has a lot of potential and that you don't need to like the movie in order to like the land and attractions.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This is being head up by Joe Rohde. I don't put my faith into many in Disney but I do out it in him. I'm not a big fan of avatar the movie but I really think this land has a lot of potential and that you don't need to like the movie in order to like the land and attractions.

Oh boy...we need to get you antibiotics...

Joe rohde is the biggest problem at imagineering.

 

[rteetz]

Oh boy...we need to get you antibiotics...

Joe rohde is the biggest problem at imagineering.

I'm sorry I'm going to disagree with you on this. I am a big fan of Joe's despite what many think is too many details or whatever. Disney is all about the details and Joe follows that. Joe is also not the biggest problem at imagineering Bob Iger is for not allowing them to work on original ideas and fixing major problems in a decent amount of time.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm sorry I'm going to disagree with you on this. I am a big fan of Joe's despite what many think is too many details or whatever. Disney is all about the details and Joe follows that. Joe is also not the biggest problem at imagineering Bob Iger is for not allowing them to work on original ideas and fixing major problems in a decent amount of time.

We'll talk about this down the road...

I'm going to very respectfully submit that you may not have the proper perspective on this.
Rohde blowing budgets have hurt walt Disney world Immensely...and probably have also diminished what little influence wdi had over corporate as well.

That "Disney is about the details" is taken from another time, my friend...the modern version - at least in the US...needs to have less Rohdes having around

 

[rteetz]

We'll talk about this down the road...

I'm going to very respectfully submit that you may not have the proper perspective on this.
Rohde blowing budgets have hurt walt Disney world Immensely...and probably have also diminished what little influence wdi had over corporate as well.

That "Disney is about the details" is taken from another time, my friend...the modern version - at least in the US...needs to have less Rohdes having around

I really believe the biggest problem today is Disney imagineers don't have someone like Walt in charge that lets them have their freedoms without worrying so much about IP and budgets. I've said this before and I'll say it again AK is my favorite park, that's Joe's park. Without him I think it's a much different park.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I really believe the biggest problem today is Disney imagineers don't have someone like Walt in charge that lets them have their freedoms without worrying so much about IP and budgets. I've said this before and I'll say it again AK is my favorite park, that's Joe's park. Without him I think it's a much different park.

Disney is a Dow 30 company that is run completely outside of family ties...

...what you desire is no longer possible. Not that I don't agree with the sentiment...but the numbers cancel out.

It's 100% about modern economics.

Ask yourself...why are they now throwing money at the swamp?

Because parks are 31% of their revenue and they need it to be larger? Why?

Mainly because "broadcast media" is 40% and its dropping...
What is "broadcast"? It's 90% ESPN and that is...was...literally "free money".

And why are they predicting disney declining when Star Wars is smashing records?

Because that's only 14%...merchandise is only 9%...

Think about those numbers...

Those are real life numbers that predict a lot of bad stuff for the mouse...

Follow the money.

Overspending on developments only angers the suits...

So back to joe rohde...

 

[rteetz]

Disney is a Dow 30 company that is run completely outside of family ties...

...what you desire is no longer possible. Not that I don't agree with the sentiment...but the numbers cancel out.

I understand. Many of us here wish Disney parks were still the way Walt ran them. Obviously that can't and won't happen. At least under Eisner he gave imagineers chances and money to do things. Sometimes he was wrong but everyone is wrong sometimes. Iger has been all IP and nothing else which I think there is plenty of Ip to pull from. I'm not against the whole Ip thing but at least do it justice. Frozen for example doesn't deserve to be in Norway it deserves something like Tokyo is doing. Star Wars deserves to be started already and be done at least a phase 1 by 2017. Parks that clearly have identity issues like Epcot and DHS shouldn't wait years if not decades before something is done. Eisner and Iger have both had their positives and negatives and everyone does, no one is perfect.

As for imagineering I don't know if anyone will live up to the Sklars, Davis', Blairs, etc. and they are especially not going to live up to that when they aren't allowed to.

 

[tjkraz]

At least under Eisner he gave imagineers chances and money to do things.

Wow, that's some pretty big revisionist history there.

Eisner took his eye off the ball when Disneyland Paris was under development and the budget overruns basically left the park in dire straits from day one. And that financial disaster lead to the underfunded DCA, underfunded Dinoland and years of stifled development throughout DL and WDW.

Eisner recognized the untapped potential in growing the Florida parks and resorts, but he didn't give designers a blank check to do with as they please.

Whether they admit it or not, the creatives and the bookkeepers need each other. The entertainment world is riddled with examples of the disastrous outcome when creatives were left unchecked. Some of WDI's most groundbreaking work was done in the early years when they had limited budgets and were forced to be inventive rather than just throwing money at every job.

I don't know the first thing about budgeting at WDI but I suspect that some framework is provided before early concept work even begins. If so, it's up to designers to assemble a plan which makes most effective use of whatever dollars are available. And if they want to go over that budget, they better provide pretty convincing reasons or they aren't going to get the money.

 

[rteetz]

Wow, that's some pretty big revisionist history there.

Eisner took his eye off the ball when Disneyland Paris was under development and the budget overruns basically left the park in dire straits from day one. And that financial disaster lead to the underfunded DCA, underfunded Dinoland and years of stifled development throughout DL and WDW.

Eisner recognized the untapped potential in growing the Florida parks and resorts, but he didn't give designers a blank check to do with as they please.

Whether they admit it or not, the creatives and the bookkeepers need each other. The entertainment world is riddled with examples of the disastrous outcome when creatives were left unchecked. Some of WDI's most groundbreaking work was done in the early years when they had limited budgets and were forced to be inventive rather than just throwing money at every job.

I don't know the first thing about budgeting at WDI but I suspect that some framework is provided before early concept work even begins. If so, it's up to designers to assemble a plan which makes most effective use of whatever dollars are available. And if they want to go over that budget, they better provide pretty convincing reasons or they aren't going to get the money.

Yes I know towards the end of his career things changed but at least he gave them a chance.

Iger waits for the last possible second until he gives a green light for something. Again don't get me wrong without him we don't have Pixar, marvel or lucasfilm which is great but the parks have been here for 60 years.

I guess I just am trying to get at that DHS and Epcot need upgrades. Yes DHS is getting one but will it be enough? Epcot isn't even being looked at yet.

When was the last time WDI was innovative? The same could be asked of Apple these days.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Disney is a Dow 30 company that is run completely outside of family ties...

...what you desire is no longer possible. Not that I don't agree with the sentiment...but the numbers cancel out.

It's 100% about modern economics.

Ask yourself...why are they now throwing money at the swamp?

Because parks are 31% of their revenue and they need it to be larger? Why?

Mainly because "broadcast media" is 40% and its dropping...
What is "broadcast"? It's 90% ESPN and that is...was...literally "free money".

And why are they predicting disney declining when Star Wars is smashing records?

Because that's only 14%...merchandise is only 9%...

Think about those numbers...

Those are real life numbers that predict a lot of bad stuff for the mouse...

Follow the money.

Overspending on developments only angers the suits...

So back to joe rohde...

I'll have to agree that Iger is the biggest problem with the parks now. He has no clue about the dynamics of theme park consumers which is evident by his 2 billion dollar Titanic.

While I understand your point the problem is the concept of spending money to make money is lost on investors and business leaders now. They just want profit with reduced expenditure which eventually hits a level where you begin sacrificing. Sadly I think Disney has already reached that level and maintence and service are suffering greatly from this.

While the announcements of Star Wars and Toy Story lands were nice it's been a long time since concept and reality came together at WDW.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

When was the last time WDI was innovative? The same could be asked of Apple these days.

The answer is: they don't even try.
Because the consumers continue to buy without hesitation...

It's basic microeconomics in its most pure form.

 

[rteetz]

The answer is: they don't even try.
Because the consumers continue to buy without hesitation...

It's basic microeconomics in its most pure form.

I know, it's unfortunate.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Wow, that's some pretty big revisionist history there.

Eisner took his eye off the ball when Disneyland Paris was under development and the budget overruns basically left the park in dire straits from day one. And that financial disaster lead to the underfunded DCA, underfunded Dinoland and years of stifled development throughout DL and WDW.

Eisner recognized the untapped potential in growing the Florida parks and resorts, but he didn't give designers a blank check to do with as they please.

Whether they admit it or not, the creatives and the bookkeepers need each other. The entertainment world is riddled with examples of the disastrous outcome when creatives were left unchecked. Some of WDI's most groundbreaking work was done in the early years when they had limited budgets and were forced to be inventive rather than just throwing money at every job.

I don't know the first thing about budgeting at WDI but I suspect that some framework is provided before early concept work even begins. If so, it's up to designers to assemble a plan which makes most effective use of whatever dollars are available. And if they want to go over that budget, they better provide pretty convincing reasons or they aren't going to get the money.

I'm not sure you're taking the outside factors into consideration with this. Eisner's tenure was one of great dreams but also great challenges. He started with the clean up from the hostile takeover attempt and then had to deal with the Gulf War issues as well as 9/11 both of which had major impacts on travel and money coming into the company. Eisner/Wells had a great understanding that you needed all parts of the company clicking but it seemed like nearly everytime they tried to kick something off another thing out of their control kicked in.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm not sure you're taking the outside factors into consideration with this. Eisner's tenure was one of great dreams but also great challenges. He started with the clean up from the hostile takeover attempt and then had to deal with the Gulf War issues as well as 9/11 both of which had major impacts on travel and money coming into the company. Eisner/Wells had a great understanding that you needed all parts of the company clicking but it seemed like nearly everytime they tried to kick something off another thing out of their control kicked in.

The timing doesn't really jive on the Gulf War or 9/11 impacting these projects, though. It's pretty well established that DLP is a poster child for creatives run amok. The debt service on construction cost overruns handcuffed the park from day one due to its joint ownership structure.

Later Eisner failures like DCA and Dinoland were conceived well before 9/11, when Disney was riding high from it's Decade of Disney and Walt's 100th birthday celebration.

Yes I know towards the end of his career things changed but at least he gave them a chance.

It wasn't just the end of his career. DLP opened in 1992. And other decisions like the quality of the All Star resorts are certainly open to scrutiny.

Iger waits for the last possible second until he gives a green light for something. Again don't get me wrong without him we don't have Pixar, marvel or lucasfilm which is great but the parks have been here for 60 years.

But is it fair to throw all of that on Iger? Where do WDI's designs figure in all of this? Correct me if I'm wrong but the last story I heard about Star Wars-related delays had to do with WDI's designs being too focused on the older films rather than Episode 7 forward.

Right now--after 12 days and $1 B--seems like a pretty good decision to focus on that future...

I guess I just am trying to get at that DHS and Epcot need upgrades. Yes DHS is getting one but will it be enough? Epcot isn't even being looked at yet.

"Will it be enough?"

What exactly is the alternative? Something tells me DHS and Epcot will survive until the upgrades arrive.

When was the last time WDI was innovative? The same could be asked of Apple these days.

These days, what qualifies as "innovative" in the family-friendly themed entertainment marketplace?

In recent years, Disney has received a lot of attention for things like the interactive characters (Mickey, etc.), advanced robotics, the scale and complexity of water/light/laser shows like World of Color and Rivers of Light, interactive games like Phineas & Ferb, trackless ride systems, variable ride experiences (Star Tours 2).

Even the Mine Train swinging ride vehicles are something that had never been tried before. That feature doesn't make the attraction an instant must-do but it's still an innovation.

If you're expecting Disney to hook riders to robotic arms and whip them in circles faster than ever before, I don't see that happening.