Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[rteetz]

The message that it evokes is inseparably connected to the theme of the park. I guess there's continuity from trees and forested areas to more forested areas but that's still not a reason cram it in.

You''ve got the story almost 100% right. One thing happened differently though, it was (according to the NYT) Staggs that suggested it. He made this mess.

According to the article they basically accepted the fact that DAK was having issues, I don't think it would've taken IP to start the movement to build more there.

I didn't even know the times had an article about this I got the info from Jim hill so.

 

[DDLand]

I didn't even know the times had an article about this I got the info from Jim hill so.

Interesting, I didn't know that! It was in the Brooke Barnes Staggs piece, well as usual Jim Hill gets it mostly right. Lol

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/2...s-disneys-heir-apparently.html?_r=0&referrer=

 

[Kimosabe]

That flying ride is what we are getting with avatar except it's a banshee.

I'm thinking more of one of those actual coasters like Manta at SeaWorld where the vehicle hangs from the track and it feels like you're flying...as opposed to the Soarin' type of feel. Even so, definitely looking forward to what they're doing with the banshee approach. Sounds like it may be several notches above Soarin'.

 

[whiporee]

I just don't think the Disney TV shows now-a-days garner the same love as they did back then. I could be wrong though, it's just my thoughts.

I actually think they do more. I'm sure I'm not alone but Disney Channel is on all the time at my house, and my kids are as indoctrinated into the Disney universe as I ever was. As opposed to an hour a week, the possibility for near constant bombardment of the Disney message is a lot more possible than it was a generation ago.

That's why the answer to the original question is no. Parents feel like Disney is a safe haven for kids -- TV, videos, whatever. Inherent in them, Disney creates an whirlwind of desire to see these places and these characters. Kids want to go, parent agree to take them and the cycle grows.

I think it's a misconception to think the average person goes for the rides. They go for the ... well, I guess you've have to call it the idea of Disney. And all the parks deliver on that.

What threads like this are talking about are the repeat visitors, and I've never thought they were the long-term key to WDW success. It's the first timers where WDW makes their money, and that's the flow they need to keep coming. I think they will, regardless of what the guys down the street do.

.

 

[Planogirl]

I actually think they do more. I'm sure I'm not alone but Disney Channel is on all the time at my house, and my kids are as indoctrinated into the Disney universe as I ever was. As opposed to an hour a week, the possibility for near constant bombardment of the Disney message is a lot more possible than it was a generation ago.

That's why the answer to the original question is no. Parents feel like Disney is a safe haven for kids -- TV, videos, whatever. Inherent in them, Disney creates an whirlwind of desire to see these places and these characters. Kids want to go, parent agree to take them and the cycle grows.

I think it's a misconception to think the average person goes for the rides. They go for the ... well, I guess you've have to call it the idea of Disney. And all the parks deliver on that.

What threads like this are talking about are the repeat visitors, and I've never thought they were the long-term key to WDW success. It's the first timers where WDW makes their money, and that's the flow they need to keep coming. I think they will, regardless of what the guys down the street do.

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However the guys down the street might be included with that flow in the future. We won't know that for a while though.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/07/25/1-company-is-giving-disney-fits.aspx

 

[peg110]

I actually think they do more. I'm sure I'm not alone but Disney Channel is on all the time at my house, and my kids are as indoctrinated into the Disney universe as I ever was. As opposed to an hour a week, the possibility for near constant bombardment of the Disney message is a lot more possible than it was a generation ago.

Again, in my opinion, the new "Disney" Generation, as you point out, gets bombarded with it. They are immersed in it, and while it does build a love for it, they get it all the time. So a Disney Trip is nice and exciting, but in my generation (40+ years ago) we got it once, maybe twice a week. You didn't want to miss it. There was a different level of excitement about it.

I am not saying that current generations don't have the excitement, I just don't think it's the same as it was from children brought up 40+ years (or so) ago. This, of course, is not a rule, fact or anything other than my opinion/feeling/observation about it. My DD10 loves Disney, but I don't think she loves it as much as DW and I do. Probably for very different reasons though.

 

[goofy4prez]

What threads like this are talking about are the repeat visitors, and I've never thought they were the long-term key to WDW success. It's the first timers where WDW makes their money, and that's the flow they need to keep coming. I think they will, regardless of what the guys down the street do.

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As someone who owned a business for over 15 years, I have to disagree with this statement. I know my business as well as most other businesses strive to have repeat customers. They are just as important as the first time customer is. In fact the nature of my business it was actually less expensive to keep my current customer base than it was reaching out to attract new. This may not be the case with Disney, but I have no doubt they place repeat customers with high importance as well. New or repeat customers coming to Disney still spend a whole lot of $$$$$$$$$$$. I know I still spend it when I go.

 

[mvk]

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/07/25/1-company-is-giving-disney-fits.aspx

Looks like Disney P&R operating income will go from $1.553B to close to $3.2B in 5 years. That far outpaces the Comcast/Universal growth from $400M to $1.4B. It's okay that Universal has added $1B to the bottom line in 5 years when Disney adds $1.673B to the bottom line.

The difference five years ago was roughly $1.153B, now its $1.826B. The percentages are nice and all but its much easier to have higher percentages when you start much lower. The fact is, Disney keeps adding more growth in attendance and in cash to the bottom line even if percentages are lower. And now they are adding a ton of new stuff at their resprts all over the world, including WDW.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

As someone who owned a business for over 15 years, I have to disagree with this statement. I know my business as well as most other businesses strive to have repeat customers. They are just as important as the first time customer is. In fact the nature of my business it was actually less expensive to keep my current customer base than it was reaching out to attract new. This may not be the case with Disney, but I have no doubt they place repeat customers with high importance as well. New or repeat customers coming to Disney still spend a whole lot of $$$$$$$$$$$. I know I still spend it when I go.

Excellent insight...thank you.

The Disney approach these days...particular at wdw...from my laymans seat appears to be entirely "market" based.

As in the UBER inflated stock price is driving everything...not the longterm stability...
And that has lead to a dependence on the current market to drive profits and revenues.
The easiest way to reap is to jack the prices, turn the screws, and largely put the "guaranteed" clientele on the back burner or fringes.

That is Florida residents, APs and vacation club.

None of those groups seem to be "easy enough" anymore. They're not as Lemming as a Sao Paolo tour group or the packages on heavy promos - generally speaking.

It's not just me...I see alot of pee pee faced DVCers...and if you spend time watching and observing...as I do almost exclusively...I'm overhearing alot of complaints/comments in my travels...

Never heard that before...open questioning of lines, prices, and offerings.

Whatever is going on with MGM/EPCOT...it best be big and with a tad urgency...

I think people are just "tolerating" alot of the trends waiting for downtown and the avatar expansion...just waiting to see if it's time to really start to alter their spending and travel.

And it's not gonna be enough...my gut take. People will be looking for that new "good stuff" to justify those DVC units still being churned out.

Mine train and the grey stuff at be our guest isn't gonna cut it.

Perhaps people will go to wdw no matter what...but at somepoint the microeconomic curve will start to bleed in to the stock profiteering and the "supply" won't equate to the "price" and will start to show a backlash in the "demand".

Not to mention the recession/boogeyman (hiding in the closet at somepoint) that is and has been - correctly I believe - to be the real equalizer to the wdw policy under Iger.

They complained about the losses in the housing bubble...wait till you see how the kids respond after you've pummeled them with increases to "make up" for those lost pennies.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Looks like Disney P&R operating income will go from $1.553B to close to $3.2B in 5 years. That far outpaces the Comcast/Universal growth from $400M to $1.4B. It's okay that Universal has added $1B to the bottom line in 5 years when Disney adds $1.673B to the bottom line.

The difference five years ago was roughly $1.153B, now its $1.826B. The percentages are nice and all but its much easier to have higher percentages when you start much lower. The fact is, Disney keeps adding more growth in attendance and in cash to the bottom line even if percentages are lower. And now they are adding a ton of new stuff at their resprts all over the world, including WDW.

It was just posted as a reference/counter opinion. I'm not specifically advocating all the writers takes...though some have validity.

I think I know where you stand and you know where I stand.

 

[trololo]

As long as people guzzle the Kool Aid, Disney parks will be fine.

 

[peg110]

As long as people guzzle the Kool Aid, Disney parks will be fine.

True about most things in life, not Just Disney.

 

[kbelle8995]

I don't think that Disney is "screwed" quite yet. I would like to see Universal and others continue to compete with them. It's better in the end for all of us guests. If Universal gets some competitive ticketing, it could be a different ball game.

I think that Disney will always have its supporters.

 

[peg110]

I don't think that Disney is "screwed" quite yet. I would like to see Universal and others continue to compete with them. It's better in the end for all of us guests. If Universal gets some competitive ticketing, it could be a different ball game.

I think that Disney will always have its supporters.

I agree. While Disney may not be making the "Best" decisions (which could open up for another debate), I think they have a LONG way to go before they are "Screwed". Even if they started to "Rest on their Laurels" as so many have suggested, I believe it would be a generation (baring some other major incident) or more before they would be so bad off that Universal would overtake them.

On that note, I never realized (until today) that apparently Universal's Parent Company, NBCUniversal, is COMCAST. All the more reason I now am less interested in going to universal. Comcast may have a good product, but they have HORRIBLE, AWFUL, TERRIBLE customer service. Can't help to wonder how much might translate to US. (Just saying, that's all!)

 

[MinnieMaeve90]

As an avid Disney fan, I hope not. I think the recent additions of NFL really should not be so dismissed. Everyone is saying they are "mediocre at best" but we all need to remember who they are aimed at. The kids. In the recent expansion they added the Little Mermaid ride, a revamped Dumbo, the Mine Cart ride, (although not the thrill ride many of us were hoping for), and several play sections, restaurants and character meet-and-greets. These are all wildly successful among younger guests, and if they can do the same for older age groups, they will remain popular. By expanding the other parks, it will also cut down on ride waits which so many of us are desperate for.

As for Universal, HPW will keep bringing in the guests because of not only its vast fan base, but because of how well done it is. Take it from someone who never got into the "Harry Potter craze" that Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley are the two best theme park attractions I have ever seen, something that rivals even Disney's amazing design and imagination. They have created an interactive and immersive world which is something that Disney has yet to do yet. Some may argue that the EPCOT Phineas and Ferb attraction does this, as well as other things, but nothing like in Harry Potter world where you can purchase wands which can actually control things throughout the Wizarding World.

Either way I know we all hope that we will get more bang for our buck in Orlando and I am excited to see what both parks will do.

*Another thing: I really think SeaWorld is going to have a difficult time recovering from Blackfish and all of the other bad press they have gotten, which again has only increased the crowds at Universal and Disney*

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree. While Disney may not be making the "Best" decisions (which could open up for another debate), I think they have a LONG way to go before they are "Screwed". Even if they started to "Rest on their Laurels" as so many have suggested, I believe it would be a generation (baring some other major incident) or more before they would be so bad off that Universal would overtake them.

On that note, I never realized (until today) that apparently Universal's Parent Company, NBCUniversal, is COMCAST. All the more reason I now am less interested in going to universal. Comcast may have a good product, but they have HORRIBLE, AWFUL, TERRIBLE customer service. Can't help to wonder how much might translate to US. (Just saying, that's all!)

Find one person who likes they're cable company, though...

You won't. It's extreme overpricing for things "out of thin air" in 100% of the cases.

Now...when Comcast is changed/gone... And the content owners are free to sell directly...guess who you're gonna REALLY hate then?

 

[kbelle8995]

I agree. While Disney may not be making the "Best" decisions (which could open up for another debate), I think they have a LONG way to go before they are "Screwed". Even if they started to "Rest on their Laurels" as so many have suggested, I believe it would be a generation (baring some other major incident) or more before they would be so bad off that Universal would overtake them.

On that note, I never realized (until today) that apparently Universal's Parent Company, NBCUniversal, is COMCAST. All the more reason I now am less interested in going to universal. Comcast may have a good product, but they have HORRIBLE, AWFUL, TERRIBLE customer service. Can't help to wonder how much might translate to US. (Just saying, that's all!)

Comcast does not effect Universal customer service at all. Wonderful and friendly TM's abound. I had some great guests experience over there. I was greeted by my name at the gate and the TMs were really helpful.

I was a former Disney CM from the 90's so I am picky about good show and all that. So was another member of my family and she's worse than I am and we couldn't stop talking about how impressed by the TM's we were.

 

[peg110]

Find one person who likes they're cable company, though...

You won't. It's extreme overpricing for things "out of thin air" in 100% of the cases.

Now...when Comcast is changed/gone... And the content owners are free to sell directly...guess who you're gonna REALLY hate then?

I understand that, and for the record, I no longer (nor have I had for a while) comcast. I have Dish Network. While the argument about the quality of programming can be made about ANY provider, I have to say the customer service of DISH has been OUTSTANDING. I am not trying to Hijack this thread to Cable/TV providers, I was just adding that my disgust of Comcast (Customer Service, not product/offerings) may also translate to my desire to not engage Universal Studios, despite the fact that I truly enjoyed Harry Potter series.

 

[toontoy]

Here is an interesting article from the investment site fool.com talking about all the closures at DHS. "The challenge for Disney is that it's the slowest-moving theme park operator on the planet. It sometimes announces new rides and attractions that won't open for years, unlike its more nimble rivals that seem to get quality additions up and running within months"

I think if they do not make some improvements to increase capacity they are going to have more negative reviews. They are really close to maximizing the capacity. I know when a line for any 3 min ride is over an hour our family skips it, and if we are not able to spend the day riding rides, we go to another park where we can. Our last trip wasn't the greatest and this was before FP+, but we noticed overcrowding and have since traveled to other destinations. We are looking and returning after a 6 year hiatus next fall but only to realize that during this time very little has been added to the parks, many many things have been removed and the parks are more crowded than ever. We have been to Orlando numerous times for cruises and trips in the past few years but due to nothing new, Universal won our visits with Harry Potter and Springfield, and Discovery Cove with the Grand Reef, Sea World with the Penguin ride and so on. I am a real Disney fan, but sadly for our family we just dont see the value for the 4500 vacation, 3 rides a day (and not even 3 we really want) with little wait isnt going to cut it for me. I hope they make improvements, I hope they continue to impress, we had some extended family members return from their first trip and all the mom could say is that she is glad to be home and can't wait to go somewhere else next year. This is from a family like ours that likes to travel to destinations and when compared to Washington DC, NYC, Miami Beach, California and other places.


http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/07/09/disney-has-big-plans-for-its-gutted-theme-park.aspx