Is a church wedding 'open to the public?'

[nskjerven]

I was told yes the Mission Santa Clara would be open as it always is - and sure enough someone showed up in her lovely bright red dress and is in our full chapel picture - and none of us could figure out who she was/is?

Eh - for a while I was bumming on it really hard - but it's been 15 years - now I figure I'll go stalk someone else's wedding and remember ours

We were warned that people come to watch yours to get ideas - I found that to be very tacky - but whatever

 

[shortbun]

Interesting. I love my church but the doors are definitely locked when something isn't going on.

Really? Ours is always open and someone is always there. It's downtown in a smallish town but it houses loads of meetings, day and night, plus they will feed anyone who shows up hungry. It's the way it was when I was growing up too. I'm pretty sure all the downtown churches are open. I know the Catholic church is and the Presbyterian. I don't know about the churches in the neighborhoods, they probably get less traffic.

 

[mrsklamc]

Wow..just wow. All I can say is that is not a belief system or church I would attend.

Like I said..I am not for crashing weddings or anything but churches have meaning to people and there are times when they want to seek the solace of one for one reason or another. To think people would think nothing of having them forcibly removed by the police because "there is no need for prayer to be in church". I guess I can't see how that is a decent way someone would start their married life..by calling the police on people who come to the church because it's all about them and their wedding.

Maybe it is because I am Catholic and there is someone physically present every day of the week, Mass held every day (sometimes more than once a day especially during certain holidays) and people are always welcome (as I mentioned in most parishes I have been in there is an area that would be used/open to others if a ceremony or wedding was going on). It is locked when nobody is there because of possible risk of vandalism or theft but that is it (and I believe that doesn't happen until the evening..sometimes lateish as they have youth activities there most nights).

There is a pastor available 24/7 and if someone felt the need to pray in the sanctuary when there was not an event going on, he would probably let them in. I just don't understand why anyone would think being a church somehow means they give up rights to control who is on the property.

 

[cornflake]

There is a pastor available 24/7 and if someone felt the need to pray in the sanctuary when there was not an event going on, he would probably let them in. I just don't understand why anyone would think being a church somehow means they give up rights to control who is on the property.

Because they're churches.

They're traditionally places of sanctuary, they're traditionally places of worship for anyone, at any time.

If you're seeking sanctuary, you're meant to be able to open the doors and go in, not come back in eight hours.

 

[Nancyg56]

I didn't say there was permission given but it still doesn't change the fact that we were not in a public building or that it was open to the public.

Thanks for telling me what happened at our wedding.

I understand that the Priest did not tell you that the Church was open to any parishioner. I understand that perhaps the Priest did not tell you that you were not "renting" the Church. The fee is referred to as a donation and it does not mean you are renting the Church and the Priest who performs the Sacrament during the Mass. . What some of us are attempting to tell you is that in the Catholic Faith we believe that the Church is a Sanctuary that is open to all. Even when a service is "private" as in a "Service is Private" notice in an obituary, the Mass is open to any who wish to attend. The building is indeed a Private building but it is open to the public, even during a marriage Ceremony. If you had asked the Priest if you were renting the Church and him by extension you may have been given a bit of an education.

I don't know if you are a Catholic but I am and have been the recipient of many many years of Catechism and CCD instruction and this ideology has been drummed into me since I was 5 years old.

 

[cornflake]

I didn't say there was permission given but it still doesn't change the fact that we were not in a public building or that it was open to the public.

You gave money to the priest who performed the ceremony - you didn't hire him.

Same as you gave money to have your wedding performed in the church - you didn't rent it.

That's all people are saying. Not telling you what happened at your wedding but that, even if you weren't aware (maybe because it didn't come up) you didn't rent the church or have the ability to restrict access. It's just not what the RCC does, anyplace.

Same as you give money to the priest who performs the wedding, but you're not hiring him. It likely didn't come up either but you couldn't have told him to say something he wouldn't say or rearranged the mass to suit yourselves or even get a priest to marry a couple they don't feel they should marry (because the couple didn't do well in premarital counseling or what have you). If he was for hire, all those things would be things that could be done - you pay, you tell someone what to say, but you're not hiring priests, it doesn't work that way. Same as you're not renting out the church and gaining the ability to restrict access to it during your mass.

People show up, for a variety of reasons, and that's just the way it is.

As to the poll, in general, I think if you know people were invited and you were not, it's rude to show up (unless it's like you know because the wedding was posted in the bulletin - I mean if you know them and they didn't invite you, for whatever reason, stay away). If it's a wedding in a Catholic or Episocpalian or etc., church or temple that's open - then I think it's fine to walk in and sit in the back very unobtrusively. The Church is supposed to be a community and it's a community event. Same as plenty of random people end up at christenings, baptisms, funeral masses, etc. - you make a donation for those too, and plenty of people you've never seen are there, because you aren't renting the church.

 

[joviroxx]

Um, try going to St Patricks Cathedral when a Kennedy is getting married or to a Catholic Church when a huge celebrity is getting married. I can assure you, you won't be able to get in. It is a private event. You won't get kicked out at a non-celebrity wedding but I see it as a personal event.

Yes, churches are meant for solace but in a Catholic Church, weddings don't occur on regular service days or times. They are always separate and reserved separately. While people have been known to come in and light a candle during a wedding or even sit in the back, it is quite different to "happen" onto a wedding than to purposely go when you specifically were not invited.

I guess I just see a wedding as a private celebration. If I needed to go to church for a specific reason, I would find a different time. A wedding is about an hour, not 8. The I need the the church NOW and because I need it now, I get it, isn't how I see it. You may have the "right" to be there but do you really need to exercise it? Really?

 

[mrsklamc]

I guess it must just be a Catholic thing. I have been involved in various Protestant churches of different sizes and denominations in various parts of the country and it has not been an expectation at any of them that the church building would just be open when things were not going on. Do things not get stolen? Is access to the entire building available or just the sanctuary?

 

[cornflake]

I guess it must just be a Catholic thing. I have been involved in various Protestant churches of different sizes and denominations in various parts of the country and it has not been an expectation at any of them that the church building would just be open when things were not going on. Do things not get stolen? Is access to the entire building available or just the sanctuary?

Doors have locks. I mean the secretary can lock the office door or the door to the school if it adjoins is locked not during school hours or etc., and stuff like the chalice is kept in the tabernacle, which is locked.

However, yes most catholic churches are just open most or all of the time, whether anything is going on or not. The expectation is that it's a place of refuge, always available.

 

[joviroxx]

Doors have locks. I mean the secretary can lock the office door or the door to the school if it adjoins is locked not during school hours or etc., and stuff like the chalice is kept in the tabernacle, which is locked.

However, yes most catholic churches are just open most or all of the time, whether anything is going on or not. The expectation is that it's a place of refuge, always available.

Catholic churches in my area are not open 24/7. They CAN be opened if needed, probably by calling the rectory, but otherwise, they are locked overnight. While there are people in the office they are open. But you can't leave churches open all the time, there is too much risk of vandalism and theft. Unless , of course, you have someone there all the time.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I guess it must just be a Catholic thing. I have been involved in various Protestant churches of different sizes and denominations in various parts of the country and it has not been an expectation at any of them that the church building would just be open when things were not going on. Do things not get stolen? Is access to the entire building available or just the sanctuary?

My church locks from midnight - 6am (in Chicago). Church is a place of refuge and should be open a lot!

We had strangers at our wedding - most weddings here do - never thought of it as a problem. Weddings are posted in the weekly newsletter - so the entire congregation knows who is getting married and when.

The thought of calling the police!!! Seems to go against WWJD.

 

[WDWLVR]

Well it's been over 20 years since I got married and it was in a Catholic Church where I had been a member since First Grade. There were a few people in the church who we didn't know and weren't invited and it didn't bother me a bit. Both my florist and the church organist suggested I stop by a wedding Mass before mine to see their work. I did and sat quietly in the back. I doubt anyone connected with the wedding even realized I was there, and I hope if they did that it didn't bother them either.

 

[declansdad]

I understand that the Priest did not tell you that the Church was open to any parishioner. I understand that perhaps the Priest did not tell you that you were not "renting" the Church. The fee is referred to as a donation and it does not mean you are renting the Church and the Priest who performs the Sacrament during the Mass. . What some of us are attempting to tell you is that in the Catholic Faith we believe that the Church is a Sanctuary that is open to all. Even when a service is "private" as in a "Service is Private" notice in an obituary, the Mass is open to any who wish to attend. The building is indeed a Private building but it is open to the public, even during a marriage Ceremony. If you had asked the Priest if you were renting the Church and him by extension you may have been given a bit of an education.

I don't know if you are a Catholic but I am and have been the recipient of many many years of Catechism and CCD instruction and this ideology has been drummed into me since I was 5 years old.

Again thanks for telling me what happened at my wedding. I must have missed you at the ceremony and all the planning sessions we had.

 

[declansdad]

You gave money to the priest who performed the ceremony - you didn't hire him.

Same as you gave money to have your wedding performed in the church - you didn't rent it.

That's all people are saying. Not telling you what happened at your wedding but that, even if you weren't aware (maybe because it didn't come up) you didn't rent the church or have the ability to restrict access. It's just not what the RCC does, anyplace.

Same as you give money to the priest who performs the wedding, but you're not hiring him. It likely didn't come up either but you couldn't have told him to say something he wouldn't say or rearranged the mass to suit yourselves or even get a priest to marry a couple they don't feel they should marry (because the couple didn't do well in premarital counseling or what have you). If he was for hire, all those things would be things that could be done - you pay, you tell someone what to say, but you're not hiring priests, it doesn't work that way. Same as you're not renting out the church and gaining the ability to restrict access to it during your mass.

People show up, for a variety of reasons, and that's just the way it is.

As to the poll, in general, I think if you know people were invited and you were not, it's rude to show up (unless it's like you know because the wedding was posted in the bulletin - I mean if you know them and they didn't invite you, for whatever reason, stay away). If it's a wedding in a Catholic or Episocpalian or etc., church or temple that's open - then I think it's fine to walk in and sit in the back very unobtrusively. The Church is supposed to be a community and it's a community event. Same as plenty of random people end up at christenings, baptisms, funeral masses, etc. - you make a donation for those too, and plenty of people you've never seen are there, because you aren't renting the church.

I know exactly what we did, who we "donated" money to, and who was allowed in the chapel during our ceremony.

Also, Catholic churches are not open 24 hours a day around here.

 

[Nancyg56]

Again thanks for telling me what happened at my wedding. I must have missed you at the ceremony and all the planning sessions we had.

You gave money to the priest who performed the ceremony - you didn't hire him.

Same as you gave money to have your wedding performed in the church - you didn't rent it.

That's all people are saying. Not telling you what happened at your wedding but that, even if you weren't aware (maybe because it didn't come up) you didn't rent the church or have the ability to restrict access. It's just not what the RCC does, anyplace.

Same as you give money to the priest who performs the wedding, but you're not hiring him. It likely didn't come up either but you couldn't have told him to say something he wouldn't say or rearranged the mass to suit yourselves or even get a priest to marry a couple they don't feel they should marry (because the couple didn't do well in premarital counseling or what have you). If he was for hire, all those things would be things that could be done - you pay, you tell someone what to say, but you're not hiring priests, it doesn't work that way. Same as you're not renting out the church and gaining the ability to restrict access to it during your mass.

You know that you can stick to your guns and insist that you "hired" your Priest, "rented" the Church and that there is no room for an error of perception on your part. I am done trying to explain anything to you. I will tell you that if you pranced into my Church and asked Fr. D if you could rent the Church and hire him to perform your wedding ceremony while you were at it I would pay good money to witness his reaction.

There is something to be said for at least opening your mind to the possibility that there may have been some practices that were left unsaid during your wedding preparation. Some of us have been practicing our religion for a long time and understand that each Parish may do business differently form the others in some ways but most of us are a bit horrified that there is any argument that it is not possible to rent our Church or hire our Priest. It is offensive.

 

[declansdad]

You know that you can stick to your guns and insist that you "hired" your Priest, "rented" the Church and that there is no room for an error of perception on your part. I am done trying to explain anything to you. I will tell you that if you pranced into my Church and asked Fr. D if you could rent the Church and hire him to perform your wedding ceremony while you were at it I would pay good money to witness his reaction.

There is something to be said for at least opening your mind to the possibility that there may have been some practices that were left unsaid during your wedding preparation. Some of us have been practicing our religion for a long time and understand that each Parish may do business differently form the others in some ways but most of us are a bit horrified that there is any argument that it is not possible to rent our Church or hire our Priest. It is offensive.

I could say the same to you. I can understand that where you are you know how it would work. Why can't you open your mind to the possibility that it may be different here? I'm not trying to offend you or anyone else, just telling you that it isn't the same everywhere.

 

[RachaelA]

People would actually get bent out of shape because there were a few random people at their ceremony that they didn't know? Seriously?

We had like 10 older members of our church parish there that I did not know. They were not even a thought in my mind. Heck, I even smiled at some of them when I was walking down the aisle.

I should add that I am Catholic and have never heard of a Catholic church in my area not allowing non-wedding guests into the church during a wedding.

 

[ford family]

You know that you can stick to your guns and insist that you "hired" your Priest, "rented" the Church and that there is no room for an error of perception on your part. I am done trying to explain anything to you. I will tell you that if you pranced into my Church and asked Fr. D if you could rent the Church and hire him to perform your wedding ceremony while you were at it I would pay good money to witness his reaction.

There is something to be said for at least opening your mind to the possibility that there may have been some practices that were left unsaid during your wedding preparation. Some of us have been practicing our religion for a long time and understand that each Parish may do business differently form the others in some ways but most of us are a bit horrified that there is any argument that it is not possible to rent our Church or hire our Priest. It is offensive.

Perhaps you should consider practising what you preach? If I pay a man to perform a specific role for me then I have hired him. If I pay a fee for the use of a building at a specific time on a specific date, to the exclusion of anybody else using that building for any other purpose at that time, then I have rented it.
If you choose to use different words to describe the hiring and the renting that is your privilege and you are free to do so.
However, for me, if it walks like a duck and quack likes a duck.........

ford family

 

[Nancyg56]

Perhaps you should consider practising what you preach? If I pay a man to perform a specific role for you then I have hired him. If I pay a fee for the use of a building at a specific time on a specific date, to the exclusion of anybody else using that building for any other purpose at that time, then I have rented it.
If you choose to use different words to describe the hiring and the renting that is your privilege and you are free to do so.
However, for me, if it walks like a duck and quack likes a duck.........

ford family

Okay, I concede that someone may have hired a Priest. Some folks may have rented a Church. In my area even using that kind of language would offend most of the Parishioners. We donate money to the Parish for a Mass, that money does not go to the Priest officiating. In my area we get a financial statement that designates any money that was donated for Masses........Memorial Masses, Funeral Masses and Wedding Masses. None of that was called "rent" and not one penny went to our Pastor. Donating money for a special Mass did not give anyone private use of the Church for their Ceremony. Perhaps that is different in other Catholic Churches.

 

[jen0610]

When I got married in a Catholic church we did not "rent" the church. We made a "donation" (a mandatory one BTW). Everyone who has ever gotten married in my family had the same thing, and when I got married a second time in my own backyard with a friend who is a Methodist minister presiding, we made another "donation" to his church.

With the church I am a member at, as a member I can rent the church at one rate and if a non-member wanted to rent the church, they would have a higher rate. There is even a rental contract that you sign. The cost also includes the fee for the minsters time. Seeing as I did not really like the current minister - he had only been there for 6 months and was an odd duck, I chose to hire the minster that had been with our church during my teen and early twenties do the majority of the ceremony for us. That fee was paid directly to him and not any church, as he was currently employeed by the state office of our church.

Yes. I have watched a few at St. Patricks Cathedral in NY.

For me, St. Patricks and several others, I don't see these as just a neighborhood church. It's a landmark. It's a status raiser to go there - to some. We know many a Catholic here that will drive many miles outta their way, passing several other Catholic churches up to get to this one church, because it's "The" church to be a member of.

Not at our church. If someone showed up at a wedding and was not wanted there by the couple, we would call the police and have them removed if they were not willing to leave on their own.

Our church is open to the public if there is church programming going on, but weddings are by invitation.

Wow..just wow. All I can say is that is not a belief system or church I would attend.
Like I said..I am not for crashing weddings or anything but churches have meaning to people and there are times when they want to seek the solace of one for one reason or another. To think people would think nothing of having them forcibly removed by the police because "there is no need for prayer to be in church". I guess I can't see how that is a decent way someone would start their married life..by calling the police on people who come to the church because it's all about them and their wedding.

Maybe it is because I am Catholic and there is someone physically present every day of the week, Mass held every day (sometimes more than once a day especially during certain holidays) and people are always welcome (as I mentioned in most parishes I have been in there is an area that would be used/open to others if a ceremony or wedding was going on). It is locked when nobody is there because of possible risk of vandalism or theft but that is it (and I believe that doesn't happen until the evening..sometimes lateish as they have youth activities there most nights).

Even Catholic churches can and will take steps to keep someone out of their building who is there for no other reason then to cause issues.

When DH's cousin got married, there was a violent ex in the picture. Threats were made against the groom. There were enough of his cronies not in jail or prison, to make it the threats be taken very seriously. The church - a Cathlic one - allowed them to have security on site. They were there to make sure that none of the cronies of the crazy ex showed up and got into the ceremony.

We had the inside scoop of what was going on, due to how close DH and the brides youngest brother was - not just cousins, but best friends. Believe me, it was a whole lot of added stress to a wedding.

Catholic churches in my area are not open 24/7. They CAN be opened if needed, probably by calling the rectory, but otherwise, they are locked overnight. While there are people in the office they are open. But you can't leave churches open all the time, there is too much risk of vandalism and theft. Unless , of course, you have someone there all the time.

The Catholic church DH was raised in - small country church - is not open 24/7. Neither is the larger city one that he goes to now. The one he grew up in use to be, but due to the way that some people have little to no respect for keeping it a place of worship, they had to close their doors. Just one too many cases of theft made that decision. The elderly father that was attached to the church, wouldn't have been able to stop anybody who wanted to get past him, if he tried. They didn't want to see him get hurt.