Invasion of the Millionaires!

[bigdisneydaddy]

This is probably why you can look at million dollar motorhomes and I can't.

this is a great country

Trust me I am only LOOKING.......
I dont know anyone in public service that has one of these.

 

[wxtrix]

we were there that weekend too--saw the signs (although I couldn't read them and we didn't stop) and the empty loops and I immediately assumed it was a rally of some sort. thanks for the pics!

and I kind of take exception to the comments in this thread that FW is not for people w/o children.

 

[Colson39]

I love looking at million dollar motor homes, and hopefully one day I can own one too! Although to be honest, I find some fifth wheels nicer and more spacious than some of the motor homes, and space is something that is very nice to have when it comes to a camper.

I watch the shows they have on the Travel Channel and the like, that show all the latest and greatest RV's (they have pop ups, fifth wheels, all kinds), and every single time my wife and I both think that the fifth wheels are the nicest of any bunch.

Although, just walking into some of those million dollar Prevost, hey, it's just cool!

 

[tellnotails]

we were there that weekend too--saw the signs (although I couldn't read them and we didn't stop) and the empty loops and I immediately assumed it was a rally of some sort. thanks for the pics!



and I kind of take exception to the comments in this thread that FW is not for people w/o children.[/QUOTE



IMHO The fort was built to cater to a income level that most reflected a blue collar family.....


In my 30 years camping at the fort I have witnessed a growing trend in extended stay campers......3 weeks or more...

I feel they are increasing the camping fees inadvertantly.....

The fort was never intended to be a gated community...

But as long as there are people out there that can foot the the bill for 3 months than the fees will still rise for the families that can't..

 

[Colson39]

we were there that weekend too--saw the signs (although I couldn't read them and we didn't stop) and the empty loops and I immediately assumed it was a rally of some sort. thanks for the pics!



and I kind of take exception to the comments in this thread that FW is not for people w/o children.[/QUOTE



IMHO The fort was built to cater to a income level that most reflected a blue collar family.....


In my 30 years camping at the fort I have witnessed a growing trend in extended stay campers......3 weeks or more...

I feel they are increasing the camping fees inadvertantly.....

The fort was never intended to be a gated community...

But as long as there are people out there that can foot the the bill for 3 months than the fees will still rise for the families that can't..

I don't think Walt Disney built anything with a certain class or income level in mind. He built a place for people to come enjoy, with or without families.

And the Fort becoming a gated community? Isn't that going a bit far?

And I don't think FW is upping fees because people are staying for 3 months or longer, if anything, that would cause fees to drop. They are upping fees because that is what Disney does now, is constantly up fees. It's nothing new, Disney has been doing it for a while now. And I'm one of the people that blindly will keep on paying them, but hey, you only live once!

And last I checked, Walt Disney wasn't a blue collar poor man (a very bad generalization) for a large chunk of his life. So, I guess Walt Disney shouldn't have really stayed at Fort Wilderness either, considering he wasn't blue collar and all

P.S. The reason you're noticing an increase in extended stay campers is because it is a much more viable activity to do now. 30 years ago, the facilities and resources are not what they are today. To stay for a month at Fort Wilderness, there wasn't as much to do, you weren't staying in super deluxe motor homes (or what have you) which is basically a small apartment on wheels. Of course people didn't stay as long back in the day, extended stay camping wasn't even as big of a deal back then.

Now you can stay at the Fort for a month or however long, and have tons of stuff to do in that time. You could find something new to do almost every single day. And then come back to your RV/Camper and basically feel like you're in a resort room somewhere (and for a lot cheaper). THAT is why you are seeing an increase in extended stay camping, not because the "rich people" are taking over Fort Wilderness. :/

 

[wxtrix]

we were there that weekend too--saw the signs (although I couldn't read them and we didn't stop) and the empty loops and I immediately assumed it was a rally of some sort. thanks for the pics!



and I kind of take exception to the comments in this thread that FW is not for people w/o children.

IMHO The fort was built to cater to a income level that most reflected a blue collar family.....

I would be much obliged if you would be so kind as to provide the link to quotes where Walt Disney indicated that the campground was for blue collar families. thanks!

 

[Tri-circle-D]

Last night, on HGTV (the Home and Garden Channel), there was a show called RV 2007.

It will replay on April 1st at 5 pm.

The show was taped at an RV show in PA. I missed the first part of it, but it looked like it reviewed all types of RV's starting with pop-ups, then Class C's, B's, 5th wheels, A's, toy haulers, and then the last part featured a $2 million RV. It was a Prevost, of course!

Set your VCR/DVR's!

TCD

 

[Colson39]

Last night, on HGTV (the Home and Garden Channel), there was a show called RV 2007.

It will replay on April 1st at 5 pm.

The show was taped at an RV show in PA. I missed the first part of it, but it looked like it reviewed all types of RV's starting with pop-ups, then Class C's, B's, 5th wheels, A's, toy haulers, and then the last part featured a $2 million RV. It was a Prevost, of course!

Set your VCR/DVR's!

TCD

That's the show I watched last night! Really good show, although most of the RV shows are anyways. I saw it while surfing the channel guide, I'm glad they put the year on it or I might have passed it. I knew it was a new show when I saw the 2007 on it.

If anything, it's kind of nice to see the insides of some of these campers that you never get to see. Definitely tape that show, it was a good one!

 

[tellnotails]

I would be much obliged if you would be so kind as to provide the link to quotes where Walt Disney indicated that the campground was for blue collar families. thanks!

Jmo friend...........

 

[tellnotails]

I don't think Walt Disney built anything with a certain class or income level in mind. He built a place for people to come enjoy, with or without families. I think he or they wanted to maximize all income levels... campground met the lower income and resorts met the higher..

And the Fort becoming a gated community? Isn't that going a bit far? The months of dec.-april it most definately resembles a gated community..

And I don't think FW is upping fees because people are staying for 3 months or longer, if anything, that would cause fees to drop. They are upping fees because that is what Disney does now, is constantly up fees. It's nothing new, Disney has been doing it for a while now. And I'm one of the people that blindly will keep on paying them, but hey, you only live once! I don't think they due anything with out data and logistics...When you can afford to stay for 3 months you are taking the place of someone else...It doesn't mean you are not there you are just bumped to another loop that causes the ressies to fill up and the data would show you can raise your price..

And last I checked, Walt Disney wasn't a blue collar poor man (a very bad generalization) for a large chunk of his life. So, I guess Walt Disney shouldn't have really stayed at Fort Wilderness either, considering he wasn't blue collar and all I don't recall anyone saying he was...

P.S. The reason you're noticing an increase in extended stay campers is because it is a much more viable activity to do now. 30 years ago, the facilities and resources are not what they are today. With the exception of a few more loops the fort has had minimal change to its infastructure.. To stay for a month at Fort Wilderness, there wasn't as much to do, you weren't staying in super deluxe motor homes (or what have you) which is basically a small apartment on wheels. Of course people didn't stay as long back in the day, extended stay camping wasn't even as big of a deal back then. But this is my point they never intented for the fort to be a gated community

Now you can stay at the Fort for a month or however long, and have tons of stuff to do in that time. You could find something new to do almost every single day. And then come back to your RV/Camper and basically feel like you're in a resort room somewhere (and for a lot cheaper). THAT is why you are seeing an increase in extended stay camping, not because the "rich people" are taking over Fort Wilderness. :/

I don't recall anyone calling anyone "rich people".......But you bring up my point again these people are spending wealth at this time of thier life......

Much different then the blue collar guy trying to build his wealth and entertain his family...

Jmho that this is the single most reason of fees to increase......

 

[Colson39]

I don't recall anyone calling anyone "rich people".......But you bring up my point again these people are spending wealth at this time of thier life......

Much different then the blue collar guy trying to build his wealth and entertain his family...

Jmho that this is the single most reason of fees to increase......

You yourself said that only "blue collar" people were meant to be in Fort Wilderness, which couldn't be farther from the truth. That's like saying only "white collar" people should be allowed to stay at the Grand Floridian.

Disney isn't increasing fees because they think more rich people are coming to Fort Wilderness. They are increasing fees because EVERYWHERE in Disney they have been doing that, for years.

Blue collar, white collar, when they're at Disney, they're the exact same. A paying customer in a specific parking spot. I come from a very "blue collar" family, and they've enjoyed Disney with other "blue collar" familes, and other "white collar" families. The only difference is they didn't think that only one group of their friends belonged there.

P.S. I'm also not saying that the current pricing of Fort Wilderness is fair to every group, or what have you. Trust me, I don't think anyone (blue or white collar) would mind if Disney were to lower the prices at Ft. Wilderness. Would that in turn affect blue collar workers more? Of course, but such is the capitalistic society that we live in.

 

[RayaniFoxmur]

Jmho that this is the single most reason of fees to increase......

Hmm... I wonder if inflation and more people taking vacations has anything to do with fee increasing...

Nah. It's all those white collar people that like to camp.

 

[tellnotails]

Hmm... I wonder if inflation and more people taking vacations has anything to do with fee increasing...

Nah. It's all those white collar people that like to camp.

Sorry typo ...Jmho the number 1 reason of many, of why fees continue to rise are do to the majority of extended stay guests that the fort has today (dec- april)...

 

[Colson39]

Sorry typo ...Jmho the number 1 reason of many, of why fees continue to rise are do to the majority of extended stay guests that the fort has today (dec- april)...

True, the more use a product gets, the more likely prices will go up. Supply and demand.

The only problem is, you seem to think that if these "white collar" workers weren't taking up those spots, that "blue collar" workers wouldn't be there to replace them. Fort Wilderness has always had a high occupancy rate, be it from blue or white collar. Just because people might stay for a month or more now, that doesn't affect the occupancy rate one bit. Chances are the occupancy would have remained the same, how many times do you see people on here posting topics like "Can't get a reservation", etc...

So according to your logic, blue collar workers are just as much to blame as the white collar workers, since they both increase occupancy rates, therefore increasing demand and decreasing supply, which increases prices. So in the end, maybe none of us should stay at Fort Wilderness. That would drive prices down for sure

 

[tellnotails]

True, the more use a product gets, the more likely prices will go up. Supply and demand.

The only problem is, you seem to think that if these "white collar" workers weren't taking up those spots, that "blue collar" workers wouldn't be there to replace them. Fort Wilderness has always had a high occupancy rate, be it from blue or white collar. Just because people might stay for a month or more now, that doesn't affect the occupancy rate one bit. Chances are the occupancy would have remained the same, how many times do you see people on here posting topics like "Can't get a reservation", etc...

So according to your logic, blue collar workers are just as much to blame as the white collar workers, since they both increase occupancy rates, therefore increasing demand and decreasing supply, which increases prices. So in the end, maybe none of us should stay at Fort Wilderness. That would drive prices down for sure

White or blue collar aside...........If the fort is 75% full of extended stay guest (3 weeks +) in full hook up loops. That would leave the rest to stay in partial hook up and the remainder of full.... (Partial is always available because the 3 week+ people need to flush....

I think this data would conclude you can raise your price directly effecting the 25% nonextended stayers.....

Does that make sense

 

[ftwildernessguy]

Another interesting thread. As far as what Walt wanted and didn't want, since no one as far as I know on this thread knew him, we are forced to deal with tangibles and facts. The reality is, Walt died prior to the construction of WDW, and I have never read anywhere that, in his plans, there was a campground to be used by the working class. Another cold, hard to swallow fact is that Walt was a shrewd business man. As much as we might like to believe that it was all about the guests, the reality is he was in this to make money, and he made a lot of it. Now his approach may have been outstanding customer service to achieve this end, but he ran a heckuva company and made a bundle doing it. Anyone who believes that a business man as clever as he was would keep prices down, wage his own war against inflation, or keep non profitable ventures alive because somebody liked it or that it was traditional needs a dose of reality, IMHO. Disney is a business and needs to be run like one if we are to be able to enjoy it in the future. So yes, profits are what it's basically about, since profits keep a business alive.

 

[Colson39]

White or blue collar aside...........If the fort is 75% full of extended stay guest (3 weeks +) in full hook up loops. That would leave the rest to stay in partial hook up and the remainder of full.... (Partial is always available because the 3 week+ people need to flush....

I think this data would conclude you can raise your price directly effecting the 25% nonextended stayers.....

Does that make sense

No, that makes no sense, because it doesn't MATTER if they are extended stay or not, it would still be 75% full. You're trying to argue that all these extended stay people are taking up spots that would normally be empty, which as we all know, is untrue. Those spots would STILL be full, Disney would STILL have a high occupancy rate, and Disney STILL would raise the prices because of that.

Right now, Disney raises prices in Fort Wilderness, even though probably 90% or more of the campers are not extended stayers. So please tell me, how do you come to the conclusion that Disney is raising the prices because of extended stayers, when most of the people that stay at Fort Wilderness aren't staying for more than 3 weeks.

It's simple. It really really is. It doesn't matter WHO is in the campsite, only if it's occupied. If the only people that stayed at Fort Wilderness were extended stay campers, and they only filled 10% of the campsite, Disney wouldn't raise the prices, they would drop them. On the contrary, (and how it currently is), if the majority of campers are non-extended stay campers, and they fill up 90% of the campsite, Disney WILL raise prices.

Disney doesn't care if you're staying 1 day, 2 weeks, or a month. They care if someone is paying for that site. It's basic supply and demand. If the sites are full, prices go up. If the sites are not full, the prices go down.

And once again, you keep on thinking that if an extended stay camper wasn't in a spot, that it would be empty. It would not. It would be filled by a non-extended stay camper. Fort Wilderness is constantly packed, and lots of people can't even get reservations when they want them.

Last I checked, Fort Wilderness has always had a very high occupancy rate, even 30 years ago. Before people stayed for 3 weeks at a time. Or a month at a time, or 3 months. It was packed even back then. Just like it would be now. THAT is why prices are going up, because it is a special place that people love to visit over and over, and are willing to pay to stay at.

 

[kc5grw]

Last night, on HGTV (the Home and Garden Channel), there was a show called RV 2007.
...and then the last part featured a $2 million RV. It was a Prevost, of course!

Set your VCR/DVR's!

TCD

Actually it was an Elegant Lady built by Liberty Coach on a Prevost chassis.

 

[tellnotails]

No, that makes no sense, because it doesn't MATTER if they are extended stay or not, it would still be 75% full. You're trying to argue that all these extended stay people are taking up spots that would normally be empty, which as we all know, is untrue. Those spots would STILL be full, Disney would STILL have a high occupancy rate, and Disney STILL would raise the prices because of that.

Right now, Disney raises prices in Fort Wilderness, even though probably 90% or more of the campers are not extended stayers. So please tell me, how do you come to the conclusion that Disney is raising the prices because of extended stayers, when most of the people that stay at Fort Wilderness aren't staying for more than 3 weeks.

It's simple. It really really is. It doesn't matter WHO is in the campsite, only if it's occupied. If the only people that stayed at Fort Wilderness were extended stay campers, and they only filled 10% of the campsite, Disney wouldn't raise the prices, they would drop them. On the contrary, (and how it currently is), if the majority of campers are non-extended stay campers, and they fill up 90% of the campsite, Disney WILL raise prices.

Disney doesn't care if you're staying 1 day, 2 weeks, or a month. They care if someone is paying for that site. It's basic supply and demand. If the sites are full, prices go up. If the sites are not full, the prices go down.

And once again, you keep on thinking that if an extended stay camper wasn't in a spot, that it would be empty. It would not. It would be filled by a non-extended stay camper. Fort Wilderness is constantly packed, and lots of people can't even get reservations when they want them.

Last I checked, Fort Wilderness has always had a very high occupancy rate, even 30 years ago. Before people stayed for 3 weeks at a time. Or a month at a time, or 3 months. It was packed even back then. Just like it would be now. THAT is why prices are going up, because it is a special place that people love to visit over and over, and are willing to pay to stay at.

I think if you toured loop 100, 200, 300,400,600 ,700,800,900,1200,1300, in the months of dec. jan .feb. march you might change your opinion on the majority of extended stayers....I have

 

[Colson39]

I think if you toured loop 100, 200, 300,400,600 ,700,800,900,1200,1300, in the months of dec. jan .feb. march you might change your opinion on the majority of extended stayers....I have

I have been visiting Fort Wilderness 3-6 times a year for almost 30 years now. I go in November, and in December, and in January, in February, and in March. I go in the summer, in the fall, winter, and spring. I stay for weekends or weeks at a time. I see those who stay long, and those who do not.

If you honestly think that the majority of people are extended stayers, then I can't argue with that. If you want to make up facts to support your argument, then I can't argue with that. You also said you don't want Disney to turn into a gated community, so I think we can all see where you're coming from.

I'm sorry you feel you're being "screwed" somehow, but such is some people's lot in life. It's how you deal with it that defines you. You can moan and whine and complain about it, and spend the entire time thinking that someone is out to "get" you, or you can enjoy the life that was given to you, and realize that in the end, it's really not all that bad, and there are many more important things in life. In the end, jealousy is a very bad bad trait to exhibit, and it's been exhibited quite a few times in this thread.

I'm not rich, far from it. I can't stay at Disney for 3 months at a time. I just don't sit there complaining about how those rich extended stayers are forcing me to pay all this extra money, because you know, Disney only cares about rich people. Why oh Disney why!!!!

Since you are the only person that seems to think that the majority of people stay at Fort Wilderness for extended stays (because you know, only rich retired people stay at Fort Wilderness, we all know that!!!), I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Well, myself and the rest of the thread...lol